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cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 12:43:12 pm

Title: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 12:43:12 pm
wtf???horn bow have 24 cut dmg and need 2 hits to kill player and arbalest have 81 pierce and need 2 hits to kill!!!wtf???
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Osiris on October 19, 2012, 12:45:09 pm
how many people do you two hit with a normal horn bow and unloomed arrows?
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 12:47:51 pm
i have arbalest +3 and steel bolts +2 145 wtf on xbow...and need two hits to kill pesent...and guy with horn and tatar kill me all time with two arrow ...i have 6 if and 48 armor...
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: BASNAK on October 19, 2012, 12:48:16 pm
Option to nerf both D:?
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Arrowblood on October 19, 2012, 12:50:49 pm
You should hit the chest then with your Arbalest   :wink:
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Tzar on October 19, 2012, 12:52:57 pm
Quote from: Osiris on October 19, 2012, 12:45:09 pm
how many people do you two hit with a normal horn bow and unloomed arrows?

LOL!!!! no1 plays without looms
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Miwiw on October 19, 2012, 12:55:28 pm
Stupid topic. It's pierce damage, damnit. No one with light gear cares about anything but cut dmg. As xbower you're supposed to hit heavy armor guys, there youll do some dmg.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Fips on October 19, 2012, 12:56:12 pm
Blah, i'm getting oneshotted by arbalests. No matter if i am on my 18/24 archer with 42 body armour or my 18/21 melee-alt with 50. Do not fucking buff xbow.

And even with bodkins, i never ever 2-hit armoured people when they are not damaged.

+1@ Miwiw, stupid topic.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: F i n on October 19, 2012, 12:56:23 pm
Arba has pierce damage.
 
When youre not using bodkins with the bow you have cut.

Compare the damage at full plated targets.

At light armors cut is more effective. Also powerdraw strongly increases your damage while there is no such skill for xbows.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 01:04:08 pm
ok...when is ppl in Linen Tunic its inposible to be killed by arbalest...nice xD
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Arrowblood on October 19, 2012, 01:09:03 pm
Quote from: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 01:04:08 pm
ok...when is ppl in Linen Tunic its inposible to be killed by arbalest...nice xD
Quote from: Deutschritter on October 19, 2012, 12:50:49 pm
You should hit the chest then with your Arbalest   :wink:
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Malaclypse on October 19, 2012, 01:09:06 pm
Quote from: Finuad on October 19, 2012, 12:56:23 pm
At light armors cut is more effective.

This isn't true, is it? I thought against light armor, Cut, Blunt, and Pierce were all equally effective meaning most of the damage goes through no matter what type of damage it is being done, whereas against heavier armor there is a marked difference which makes Blunt/Pierce perform better than cut.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: F i n on October 19, 2012, 01:23:06 pm
Quote from: Malaclypse on October 19, 2012, 01:09:06 pm
This isn't true, is it? I thought against light armor, Cut, Blunt, and Pierce were all equally effective meaning most of the damage goes through no matter what type of damage it is being done, whereas against heavier armor there is a marked difference which makes Blunt/Pierce perform better than cut.

Hmm dunno. Tho cut has more dmg compared to pierce weapons. Even bows with all the +% damage from pd gives them almost the same damage as fhe 81p arba

Edit: might as well be totally wrong what im saying lol
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on October 19, 2012, 01:35:09 pm
.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: karasu on October 19, 2012, 01:35:14 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: F i n on October 19, 2012, 01:39:47 pm
Also remember xbows are less effective when its raining!
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Uumdi on October 19, 2012, 02:09:03 pm
Quote from: Finuad on October 19, 2012, 01:23:06 pm
Hmm dunno. Tho cut has more dmg compared to pierce weapons. Even bows with all the +% damage from pd gives them almost the same damage as fhe 81p arba

Edit: might as well be totally wrong what im saying lol

I think you know what you mean.  They are all equally effective vs 0 armor, but cut weapons generally have a higher base damage.

In the case of the ranged weapons, it depends on the target.  Some "peasants" have decievingly high strength and ironflesh, hahah


Vote buff arbalest - not the damage much if any - moreso the ridiculous delay.  It used to be a great weapon, but it got overnerfed.  For 2 slot and insane upkeep, it should really deal more consistant damage than the regular 1-slot crossbow.  It's a piece of garbage now.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Iymore on October 19, 2012, 03:21:32 pm
http://i.imgur.com/qv6zX.jpg

with mw horn bow and mw bodkins i do 29 pierce demage, 6 pd gives me %84 more that means i hit 53 pierce...
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: owens on October 19, 2012, 03:24:49 pm
^it doesnt work like that.

It is how much PD over the bows requirement in native anyway
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Overdriven on October 19, 2012, 03:30:16 pm
2 shot someone with my MW horn bow? I wish  :(
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: matt2507 on October 19, 2012, 03:35:41 pm
the only things oneshot me is:
Arbalests and Butan..

as it is impossible to nerf butan, NERF Arbalest I Say
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Mogh on October 19, 2012, 08:35:10 pm
Quote from: karasu on October 19, 2012, 01:35:14 pm
(click to show/hide)

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Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: genric on October 19, 2012, 08:37:06 pm
If it takes you two shots with an arb then you are now shooting a peasant. Arb does 81 pierce. 81 damage that goes through armor into the flesh turning your insides into liquid pain that runs out of your ass in an explosion that kills nearby allies. The arb is so powerful. Hornbow with tatar arrows take 2-3 shots to kill a brand new player in the game. without bodkin can't kill armored units with less then 10 arrows and even with bodkin still take 5-6 or so.
If you are ranged then you are a support character for you team. You injure the enemies so that your allies have an easier time killing them. If you want to get a ton of kills then go play a two hander cause you seem to be unable to handle how to play ranged properly.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Kafein on October 19, 2012, 08:42:19 pm
My Little Bow : Power Draw is Magic.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Dexxtaa on October 19, 2012, 08:52:20 pm
Quote from: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 12:43:12 pm
wtf???wtfwtfwwtfbow have 24 wtf and need wtf hits to kill wtfwtfwtffffff have 81 pierce wtf need wtf to wtf!!!wtf???
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Belatu on October 19, 2012, 08:54:53 pm
pleasechangethepoll I want to vote on both ...
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Juhanius on October 19, 2012, 09:16:20 pm
Quote from: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 12:47:51 pm
i have arbalest +3 and steel bolts +2 145 wtf on xbow...and need two hits to kill pesent...and guy with horn and tatar kill me all time with two arrow ...i have 6 if and 48 armor...

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Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: SixThumbs on October 19, 2012, 09:24:04 pm
Quote from: Mogh on October 19, 2012, 08:35:10 pm
Does not approve

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I feel bad that kid was casted to be an inbred, hahah.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 19, 2012, 09:25:09 pm
Simply bs.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Strider on October 20, 2012, 12:24:47 am
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Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Snickers on October 20, 2012, 12:32:07 am
Huh... Can i revoke my vote. I though it said nerf Xbows not Buff Xbows. Fucking hate polls that doesn't mean shit. Xbows are strong enough. Ppl get 2 shot with 50 + armour but with a horn bow with bodkins it take 5+ in the body. Though bows shoot faster.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Teeth on October 20, 2012, 12:58:54 am
Quote from: Miwiw99 on October 19, 2012, 12:55:28 pm
Stupid topic. It's pierce damage, damnit. No one with light gear cares about anything but cut dmg. As xbower you're supposed to hit heavy armor guys, there youll do some dmg.
Lol. Pierce will do more damage against light armor than it will against heavy armor, obviously. Without armor, all three damage types will deal their highest possible damage. It's just that the base damage for blunt and pierce is mostly lower than cut. While cut gets its damage reduced fast by higher armor, this effect is less for blunt and pierce.

A 24 pierce crossbow would deal exactly the same damage to a target without armor as a 24 cut hornbow.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Nightingale on October 20, 2012, 01:29:47 am
Quote from: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 12:43:12 pm
wtf???horn bow have 24 cut dmg and need 2 hits to kill player and arbalest have 81 pierce and need 2 hits to kill!!!wtf???

Well....

Been using an arbalest for 18 generations, of course I have +3 steel bolts and +3 arbalest... the total base damage if added up is 100 P.... then minus (whatever percent the devs nerfed them down) if its raining - 25% (I think), and bowmen suffered the same nerf, only they a more rapid rate of fire. gives them more chance for hits (Points).As for linen tunic, some archers wear those and fake peasants, rarely do I actually see a real "peasant" wearing "Linen Tunic",most of the time they come up with extremely ridiculous outfits that no one but a true peasant would wear it.

The only thing I care about, I get enough kills to satisfy me, but... the points they determine valour yes? Then why do I get 2 or 3 points for landing a head shot from any distance it doesn't matter and when I get on my melee alt I get 4 points for hitting someone once with a sword? Why is it that? when I do decent on NA siege 10-20 kills and 1-2 deaths, why is it I am on the bottom of the score board.

Never had a problem with archers, I think you need to rethink your problem here. I counted shots from a fully loomed Tatar bow with Tatar arrows just for shits and giggles one night and i survived 4 shots, 42 body armor 15 str and 0 ironflesh, If anything Archers deserve a slight damage buff... someone with a build like mine shouldn't be able to take 4 arrows not even counting the times the guy missed. So I believe you counted wrong.

Horn bow verse Arbalest, Horn bow would likely win if you missed first,  or shot him from an open place with 0 cover this is when its up to the player to think.... (Do I really want to get his attention when I have to reload for 12 seconds with zero cover around to block his shots?) (I think ill wait to shoot at him till I find cover) I honestly think that range is pretty well balanced in the game at the moment and I think your main problem is you want to be able to kill him without a challenge. which shouldn't happen anyway a smart player will always win against a player that doesn't think.

This thread seems to me just you are angry that a few archers out did you... which can happen since they have a higher rate of fire...  (Since your EU- Probably crazy Russians - the one thing NA lacks! that and average skill)
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: genric on October 20, 2012, 01:34:44 am
I want to +1 you but you are desirable and I hate you for being a good crossbow lol, almost is much as I hate claire calford. I <3 claire now
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Haboe on October 20, 2012, 01:47:23 am
Powerdraw
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Nightingale on October 20, 2012, 02:01:49 am
Quote from: genric on October 20, 2012, 01:34:44 am
I want to +1 you but you are desirable and I hate you for being a good crossbow lol, almost is much as I hate claire calford. I <3 claire now

I see you +1 me anyway! and I +1 you because you <3 claire
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Dach on October 20, 2012, 02:25:54 am
Buff Arbalest until I can oneshot Sosarian knight!

Put 2 bolt in him the other day and he didn't die! Pretty short range shot too. Mind you I got +3 arbalest and +3 steel bolts  :P

Or nerf STR...  :twisted:
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Nightingale on October 20, 2012, 02:29:07 am
Quote from: Dach on October 20, 2012, 02:25:54 am
Buff Arbalest until I can oneshot Sosarian knight!

Put 2 bolt in him the other day and he didn't die! Pretty short range shot too. Mind you I got +3 arbalest and +3 steel bolts  :P

Or nerf STR...  :twisted:

only 2?!?! surely he only had a quarter of Hp left.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: genric on October 20, 2012, 02:55:44 am
Quote from: Scilla on October 20, 2012, 02:01:49 am
I see you +1 me anyway! and I +1 you because you <3 claire

You made a good point. I give KUTT crap in game but in forums we are all just text, and you wrote a very good point therefor I give you credit.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Uumdi on October 21, 2012, 10:55:29 am
Quote from: Iymore on October 19, 2012, 03:21:32 pm
http://i.imgur.com/qv6zX.jpg

with mw horn bow and mw bodkins i do 29 pierce demage, 6 pd gives me %84 more that means i hit 53 pierce...


http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB/?go=archercalc

Old calculator but the archery formula should still be very relevant.  I did a 27/15 longbow build vs. 18/24 longbow build.  Power Draw over the requirement absolutely destroys your effective wpf, so the 14% dmg is unfortunately broken.  I would hope they decide to rethink the damage formula a little bit, or at least how wpf works. 

We don't want str archers acting like turrets or shotguns, but a higher-str archer just doesn't make any sense atm.  18/24 did about 60p, and the 27/15 only did 72p, with an effective wpf of like... 20, haha.  Its balanced atm, I won't lobby too hard for archers that shoot lightning bolts, but there should really be more choices than there currently are: 15/24 or 18/21  (or 15/27 vs 18/24 on a limited athletics build).


But yeah, play around with that calculator.  They did a fantastic job, even let you toggle heirloomed bows and ammo types.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: genric on October 21, 2012, 05:48:31 pm
+1 cause Uumdi.

And cause archers so limited :(
And archery wpf is annoying cause you suck till level 29 and still aren't all that accurate.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: MrShine on October 21, 2012, 07:33:58 pm
Quote from: Drozila on October 19, 2012, 12:43:12 pm
wtf???horn bow have 24 cut dmg and need 2 hits to kill player and arbalest have 81 pierce and need 2 hits to kill!!!wtf???

wut
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Dexxtaa on October 21, 2012, 11:56:18 pm
Quote from: MrShine on October 21, 2012, 07:33:58 pm
wut

HE SAID "WTF??? HORN BOW HAVE 24 CUT DMG AND NEED 2 HITS TO KILL PLAYER AND ARBALEST HAVE 81 PIERCE AND NEED 2 HITS TO KILL!!! WTF???"
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: genric on October 22, 2012, 12:04:09 am
Quote from: Dexxtaa on October 21, 2012, 11:56:18 pm
HE SAID "WTF??? HORN BOW HAVE 24 CUT DMG AND NEED 2 HITS TO KILL PLAYER AND ARBALEST HAVE 81 PIERCE AND NEED 2 HITS TO KILL!!! WTF???"

Ahhh I get it. False statement except under very particular circumstances.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: MrShine on October 22, 2012, 12:08:30 am
Quote from: Dexxtaa on October 21, 2012, 11:56:18 pm
HE SAID "WTF??? HORN BOW HAVE 24 CUT DMG AND NEED 2 HITS TO KILL PLAYER AND ARBALEST HAVE 81 PIERCE AND NEED 2 HITS TO KILL!!! WTF???"

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Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Darkkarma on October 22, 2012, 12:13:18 am
Honestly, without looms the arbalest is pretty much shit, even at a dedicated build. Hitting things consistently from difference is very difficult. As a gen 16 arbalest user, I've been playing without looms for about two gens now and it legitimately makes me rage. Miw nailed it though. As an arbalest user if you are singling out peasants you are doing it wrong anyway!
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Miley on October 22, 2012, 01:13:05 am
Hmm, I hit people like 10 times with my Horn Bow +3 and they're not dead.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 22, 2012, 01:54:55 am
To be honest, I tend to get almost 1 shot by most arbs. than I against bows.
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Dexxtaa on October 23, 2012, 09:52:53 pm
Quote from: IR_Kuoin on October 22, 2012, 01:54:55 am
To be honest, I tend to get almost 1 shot by most arbs. than I against bows.

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Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Jarlek on October 23, 2012, 11:41:17 pm
Quote from: owens on October 19, 2012, 03:24:49 pm
^it doesnt work like that.

It is how much PD over the bows requirement in native anyway
Since nobody pointed it out.

No, you are wrong. It's not just the PD over the bows requirement that gives you extra damage, it's all PD up to and including 4 above the requirement that gives you bonus damage.

6 PD and a PD 6 bow gives 6*14% bonus damage.
6 PD and a PD 4 bow gives 6*14% bonus damage.
6 PD and a PD 1 bow gives 5*14% bonus damage.

Got it?
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Iymore on October 23, 2012, 11:54:06 pm
Quote from: Zapper on October 23, 2012, 11:41:17 pm
Since nobody pointed it out.

No, you are wrong. It's not just the PD over the bows requirement that gives you extra damage, it's all PD up to and including 4 above the requirement that gives you bonus damage.

6 PD and a PD 6 bow gives 6*14% bonus damage.
6 PD and a PD 4 bow gives 6*14% bonus damage.
6 PD and a PD 1 bow gives 5*14% bonus damage.

Got it?
so i can't get pd bonus with 11 pd?
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Jarlek on October 24, 2012, 12:48:02 am
Quote from: Iymore on October 23, 2012, 11:54:06 pm
so i can't get pd bonus with 11 pd?
Not with the current bow requirements, no.

If we ever get a 7 requirement bow though....
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: MrShine on October 24, 2012, 05:24:09 am
Quote from: Zapper on October 24, 2012, 12:48:02 am
Not with the current bow requirements, no.

If we ever get a 7 requirement bow though....

PD requires 14 wpf per point like throwing, so a 11 PD archer would need 154 wpf minimum so it could even make use of the PD... aka you're never going to be able to harness the power of 11 PD regardless of the requirements of a bow.

MRSHINE AWAY!
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Jarlek on October 24, 2012, 01:18:45 pm
Quote from: MrShine on October 24, 2012, 05:24:09 am
PD requires 14 wpf per point like throwing, so a 11 PD archer would need 154 wpf minimum so it could even make use of the PD... aka you're never going to be able to harness the power of 11 PD regardless of the requirements of a bow.

MRSHINE AWAY!
Level 36 (284 556 896 xp)
Strength: 33
Agility: 18
Skills to attributes: 20
Power Draw: 11
Weapon Master: 6
Archery: 163

Level 36. Because someone, somewhere, still think that's a possibility :P

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: horn bow vs arbalest
Post by: Calford on November 07, 2012, 09:26:15 pm
Quote from: genric on October 20, 2012, 01:34:44 am
I want to +1 you but you are desirable and I hate you for being a good crossbow lol, almost is much as I hate claire calford. I <3 claire now

Genric, I have to say I was having an awful day before I read this,  I appreciate  your heart's... and remeber your lady friend is in the way of our love. Also mega hearts to Desirable! shoot some archers for me!