cRPG
Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: SixThumbs on October 12, 2012, 09:00:05 pm
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So, I'm lacking a bit in the computer expertise department and was wondering if someone with more know-how would be willing to help me out a bit with upgrading my lackluster PC. It runs most recent games at alright (medium-low) settings now that I've put a "low profile" GPU in it (which involved hacking apart some of the frame so it would fit).
It is this make and model which I bought mostly dirt cheap at Wal-Mart:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=ca&dlc=en&docname=c02642273&lc=en#N197
Thought it would be time for an upgrade as some of the games coming out aren't playing as well as I'd like them to so mainly I wanted to upgrade the processor and PSU and then after seeing how that worked out upgrading the graphics card in a bit. I'm not looking for top-end gaming hardware as medium-lowish setting work for me just as long as the gameplay is smoother.
For a processor this is what I was considering:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103996
The only thing is on the upgrade information page for my comp it says it only supports AM2+ sockets, even though apparently the one in the computer now is an AM3, I don't know what difference the "+" makes.
For a PSU I considered this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817338063
This was only because it's a "slim line" computer and I'm not sure if anything else would really fit properly in the tower. I guess ideally I would go for something in 400-600 wattage range for when it comes to do the GPU but right now I've only 220w and nothing seems to overheat even though my current GPU recommends 300 or something like that.
Alternatively I considered just upgrading completely and splurging and was wondering if the hardware here would be a good base to start with to keep up to date for a few years:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1018122
Thanks for any opinions, I just know the basest of the basics about computer hardware and at first putting my GPU into this computer seemed like a big deal the time.
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Processor you're looking at should be compatible (since you currently have an AM3 proc).
350w is not nearly enough for your power, I'd suggest 600w minimum
If I were you, I'd get a new case that's not slimline, and put your mobo and parts into the new case. That will allow you to get a normal graphics card and power supply.
Also down the road you may want to upgrade the mobo so you can get a video card that's PCI E x16 2.0 (versus yours which I'm guessing is 1.0 version of PCI-E x16). Also having 4 memory slots versus 2 is nice for upgrading down the road, so you don't have to constantly replace your memory when you want more, you can just add on.
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350w is not nearly enough for your power, I'd suggest 600w minimum
Doesn't sound right to me, if the PSU is not completely noname 350w should be good enough except if you want several HD etc.
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Buy an iPad.
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Doesn't sound right to me, if the PSU is not completely noname 350w should be good enough except if you want several HD etc.
I had a 450w and it wouldn't power on my PCI-E 16x 2.0 card, processor and a couple fans...I wouldn't risk it these days with higher powered graphics cards and processors/heatsinks, memory, not to mention fans and drives.
http://c1.neweggimages.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html
350w is terrible these days, 450w is bare minimum, and you're lucky if it will have the power to run your system. Realistically you should be fine with 500 or 550w, but I'd suggest 600w min.
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On a serious note, these PSUs are very good:
SS G-360 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151117)
SS G-550 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151119)
Depends how much are you willing to spend. First PSU is more than enough for gaming rig, unless you plan dual GPUs.
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These would be my personal picks for your motherboard:
Phenom II X4 965 6 MB
Extra 3 GB RAM ( with a 64-bit OS upgrade that is )
GeForce GTX 570 ( not sure if it can be fitted in your case :( )
Based on price/quality. Video card might be different, depends on what you have on sale... Would definitely upgrade PSU to 500+ W, if you go for a new video card.
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I had a 450w and it wouldn't power on my PCI-E 16x 2.0 card, processor and a couple fans...I wouldn't risk it these days with higher powered graphics cards and processors/heatsinks, memory, not to mention fans and drives.
http://c1.neweggimages.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html
350w is terrible these days, 450w is bare minimum, and you're lucky if it will have the power to run your system. Realistically you should be fine with 500 or 550w, but I'd suggest 600w min.
Maybe you had some no name crappy PSU.
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I don't know AMD processors too well, maybe they haven't improved their energy consumption as much as intel did.
Anyway, all PSUs are relatively cheap compared to other devices, you can overshoot a little and it won't cost you much.
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Maybe your power is more efficient in Euroland? I really don't know, but I do know 350w isn't enough for any sort of a gaming computer these days in North America.
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Maybe your power is more efficient in Euroland? I really don't know, but I do know 350w isn't enough for any sort of a gaming computer these days in North America.
It's more of a question of rails and voltages in the PSU. A crappy PSU can give you 500w in 5v only and barely anything in 12v, but processors, GPUs etc all want great amounts of 12v juice these days.
So, a PSU that offers good 12v (and doesn't bullshit the numbers) can power a gaming computer at 350w, but it's also a little foolish to live at the upper limit of this component. It's something worth investing in.
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From what I can say from my experience all you need is a beast videocard and somewhat other stuff that could drag it along.
I got basically PC components that are I think 9 years old, they are pretty garbage, exept for videocard and the harddrives and I run most games on max settings and the few others atleast in high. The only thing that I had concerns about was if my powersupply was up for the task and if the motherboard supported the videocard.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Eh, I was wondering if maybe the upgrade information for the processor, "AM2+", meant AM2 sockets or higher? That's my biggest concern, the parts not being compatible followed by the parts not fitting in the tower (vertically, horizontally I've already 'destroyed' the frame).
The only reason I want to go for AMD is because that's what HP recommends, I don't know if they have some deal with them or what but this processor hasn't really given me trouble just that I want something I little better. Sweat, that processor looks like what I'll get as I don't know if AM3+ is supported or will have some troubles with my motherboard. The graphics card looks nice also but it's discontinued ;-;
I probably should've posted this in the first place, my GPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102874
So, I guess the question I'm now asking is will a new PSU and GPU help more then a processor? I just remember reading that a processor could possibly hamper performance if the GHz are kind of low for each core and the more than 2 are not commonly used on games yet. My two core only has 2.8 GHz each and I don't know how much of a difference getting four with 3.4 GHz were make, would be a massive jump if I guessed but again with computers I just think higher numbers equal better.
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I would go for a new PSU and GPU if I was you. Im running on 2.4 GHz myself and really not demanding for more. If games arent lagging etc, what is there really to complain about? If you do wish to have more, mybe try overclocking it abit. But thats kinda risky buisness and even if it works its life span whould shorten unless you have some badass coolingsystem in your PC.
I still suggest you make 100% sure that your motherboard aswell supports the GPU. I made this mistake once and the videocard was so wrong that it litterally sounded like there was a washingmachine working in full speed in my PC, until the GPU shutted itself down. :D
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Well make sure your mobo can support your cpu as well. I made the mistake of buying a cheap mobo, then when I put my phenom II x4 955 in, after a couple of months the heat sink snapped the connectors off the motherboard because it was simply to heavy for it. It's always worth buying from the same manufacturers so I went with the Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 which said expressly that it supported it.
I'd be careful with the PSU. They can be fairly cheap so it's often worth overshooting than not having enough power. My GPU required a power supply from the PSU and not just through the mainboard so I had to up my PSU especially for that.
As for which to upgrade first, I upgraded the GPU and PSU together because they needed it, then waited a year and upgraded my CPU. I have to say the GPU and PSU upgrade made the more noticeable difference for me. I had an ok graphics card before and this one was just 100x better and barely struggles on good graphics. My CPU was more just so I could run games on absolute top end settings and because I felt like it. But the jump was considerably less even though it was just as outdated in tech terms. My current CPU doesn't actually use much of it's power when running a lot of games and it's probably a bit overkill.
I also upgraded to 8gb ram from 4gb when I bought my new mobo just because I could (old mobo didn't support more than 4gb).
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Thanks again, I'll consider the GPU more now but the reason I wanted to upgrade the CPU is because according to "Can You Run it?" it's behind on a lot of games, even the ones that run ok but I still get some gameplay lag here and there. I just don't know how legitimate that site is because it tells me I fail a lot of times even when according to pixel/vertex shader versions and dedicated video ram I'm well above.
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I once happened to read an article about the gaming these days. It stated that gaming hasnt done a exactly massive leep in about 8 years now. I can confirm this, since Crybaby engine and such just add physics and better graphics, while still staying to the basic formula.
In the old days it was different yes. Year 2000 playin Red Alert 2 with no problems with your badass PC. WHAM! 1 year later you have GTA 3 and everything lags and your gamingsystem is obsolete. Ahh, the good old days. :rolleyes:
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So, I guess the question I'm now asking is will a new PSU and GPU help more then a processor? I just remember reading that a processor could possibly hamper performance if the GHz are kind of low for each core and the more than 2 are not commonly used on games yet. My two core only has 2.8 GHz each and I don't know how much of a difference getting four with 3.4 GHz were make, would be a massive jump if I guessed but again with computers I just think higher numbers equal better.
There was a time when games were designed around GPU like first Crysis. Now CPU makes a difference even in singleplayer games. In multiplayer/mmo games good cpu is necessary. You should think about SSD as well.
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A lot of it is to do with the lack of any console progression. It usually goes along the lines of:
New consoles pushing boundaries of graphics ect blitzing everything else out ---> standard affordable pc specs catch up eventually ---> standard pc specs over take consoles by significant margin ---> consoles bust out the new shiny boundary pushing tech.
Simple fact is that hasn't happened since the 360 and PS3 which is what...8 years?
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Welp, after a few more hours of browsing I think I might be shit out of luck powering anything else without "modifying" my computer case further or buying a whole new tower. I've got these sitting in my shopping cart right now:
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134641
Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727
and this is the only PSU I could find so far that would quite possibly fit in the damn thing:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=17-151-090&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=3#top
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Almost same processor as me :P Just consider what I said about the heatsink being heavy. I'd make sure your motherboard supports it, just so it's actually tough enough the hold the weight.
Take it your motherboard doesn't support ddr3 ram then?
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Only 300W PSU? That might be a problem.....
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I'm pretty sure the motherboard only supports DDR2 and the processor is under the list of supported types so I don't think that should be an issue. I'm still looking for more PSUs as I think I should have about a half inch for height and a few inches for length in terms of leeway but the width might be a problem unless I want to destroy the case more, which is a bit sad considering that most of the PSUs I see are mostly box shaped.
The 300w one I saw was the only one that would fit more or less the same dimensions as the one I have now but that's the main issue I'm having right now along with which RAM set I should get. I guess I'm looking for two 4 gig, 240-pin DDR2 800MHz, unbuffered non-ECC and although I have a 64 bit operating system I'm not sure because the website for the specs says this: "Supports up to 4 GB* on 32 bit PCs; *32-bit operating systems cannot address a full 4.0 GB of memory".
That should theoretically mean I can get 8 GB of ram with 2 x 4gigs, right?
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and this is the only PSU I could find so far that would quite possibly fit in the damn thing:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=17-151-090&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=3#top
Does this fit?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104132
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Sadly I don't think so. The page says my PSU now is "7.9 x 3.3 x 2.1 inches" but comparing it to the stats listed on that page and looking at the actual thing I'm thinking they can't make up their minds which part is height, width and depth.
Edit: I might have to cave and just buy a tower but at the same time I don't want to end up destroying any hardware I already have from lack of knowledge either removing it or installing it.
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I got a i5 2500K, OC'ed to 4.2GHz and just a good ol' HD4870 as GPU. Guess what, it's still the CPU bottlenecking GTA4 like a bauce.
although I have a 64 bit operating system I'm not sure because the website for the specs says this: "Supports up to 4 GB* on 32 bit PCs; *32-bit operating systems cannot address a full 4.0 GB of memory".
That should theoretically mean I can get 8 GB of ram with 2 x 4gigs, right?
Both your OS and your mobo have a physical adressing limit. A 64 bit OS is fine for any realistic amount of RAM (2^64 is kinda big), however most gaming pc motherboards today only support up to 16Gb of RAM, if it's old you should check yours.
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Well, I've been considering just upgrading completely the past couple of days with either one of these bundles:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1018125
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1018122
I considered upgrading the RAM on this one Kafein but even if it did support up to 16gb I realized that it's DDR2 which was about three and a half times more expensive than DDR3 if I wanted to put 8 gigs in.
I just can't decide whether I want to spend that money right now because I'm a frugal bastard. It's either drop the ~650 dollars on what would be a budget gaming machine or drop about half of that to upgrade an increasingly obsolete machine. I just feel guilty dropping this thing altogether because I've only had it about a year.
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If you are vast on budget I'd go for a Medion. The germans sure know what they are doing, and the prices of their machines are just great.
Last one I saw had this:
- Core i5 3450 [3rd gen 4 cores etc]
- Some Asus motherboard with USB 3.0 PCI 3.0 x16 some other PCIs etc
- 8 GB Ram low case latency, high freq (1600 Mhz iirc) [You'll fly with this]
- 64 GB SSD for OS + 1TB HDD
- Hot Swap [to change HDDs while active]
- Nvidia GTX 550 Ti [Not the best, not bad either, you'll pretty much run all games on medium at least]
- Blu Ray Unit [Pretty awesome to have this]
- Corsair 450W PSU [More than enough Watts, enough amps on the 12V rails etc]
Price: 650€
Best stuff for the best price hands down. Honestly, I was really tempted to buy that one, unfortunately I was low on budget at the time.
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Welp, after a few more hours of browsing I think I might be shit out of luck powering anything else without "modifying" my computer case further or buying a whole new tower. I've got these sitting in my shopping cart right now:
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134641
Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727
and this is the only PSU I could find so far that would quite possibly fit in the damn thing:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=17-151-090&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=3#top
I use the X955 black ed, its a nice CPU for the cost, I would imagine that would be aaround the same
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Problem with AMD processors is the bottleneck. Don't get a Phenom if you then go berserk after a beast graphic card. It will just cut the fps of pretty handsomely.
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I'd highly suggest investing in a cheap tower case...doesn't need to be anything fancy, you can easily get what you need for under 30 bucks (under 40 for sure).
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If you are vast on budget I'd go for a Medion. The germans sure know what they are doing, and the prices of their machines are just great.
Last one I saw had this:
- Core i5 3450 [3rd gen 4 cores etc]
- Some Asus motherboard with USB 3.0 PCI 3.0 x16 some other PCIs etc
- 8 GB Ram low case latency, high freq (1600 Mhz iirc) [You'll fly with this]
- 64 GB SSD for OS + 1TB HDD
- Hot Swap [to change HDDs while active]
- Nvidia GTX 550 Ti [Not the best, not bad either, you'll pretty much run all games on medium at least]
- Blu Ray Unit [Pretty awesome to have this]
- Corsair 450W PSU [More than enough Watts, enough amps on the 12V rails etc]
Price: 650€
Best stuff for the best price hands down. Honestly, I was really tempted to buy that one, unfortunately I was low on budget at the time.
Was that to buy them altogether or off the site or something?
Huseby, that's kind of a moot suggestion at this point.