cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Kulin_ban on October 04, 2012, 05:53:26 pm
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HACKED
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Is your main a 2h by any chance? Because if you're a 1h and play on NA, you will have a large number of glances with only 15 str/5 ps unless you use a pierce or blunt weapon.
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Yes, Nerf agi so they can never do as much damage as str builds. In turn, make them actually faster swinging.
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I do not know about 2hers, but with 1hers I can tell you that from 5 to 6 PS the change is highly noticeable, as you glance less. I have never had more than 6 PS in my shielder though so I cannot tell you more.
But from the numbers, as PS does not (afaik) reduce your effective wpf as PD does, I can see no reason why it should stop being effective.
Another thing to take into account is that speed bonus works both ways, while the bonus damage from PS does not have a specific counter.
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Using speed bonus and held attacks, I rarely glance with my Espada (25 cut) on my assassin build. He has 5 PS and 100 wpf. I'd never use anything less than that for a 1h sword though. 4 PS is fine for blunt and pierce 1 handers.
If you plan on using swords though, 6 PS is a really safe bet. You'll generally only glance if you do something wrong.
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You asked for my opinion. My opinion is that you're crazy.
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Another way of reducing glancing is by increasing weapon wpf (which is one of the announced agility based buffs, the change of wpf curve).
While PS does not reduce wpf, armor weight, which is abundant in melee class, reduces is significantly. In fact, if I was to say that most melee guys don't play with less than 45 body armor, 30 head armor, and around 20 leg armor, which greatly reduces melee wpf, I would say I was not wrong by much.
I have tested this in the past couple of months (afaik there has not been a change to this in this time) with pure builds in both cases, 15/21 and 18/18, both with max WM and wpf (not sure how much exactly), so that is not the issue, since I always let total weight around 15-20, I like light stuff.
The reason I do not go for more than 6 PS for my shielders is agi and shield skill, not WM though.
Also, a question, does the 10 weight limit before the penalty apply also to melee weapons? Or only to ranged?
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Strength builds are far more forgiving, you can have bad awareness but still do well. It rewards bad players who can make random hits with long, high-damaging weapons and survive a ton. Good players can do better with agility builds since they can control fights and win while being ganked by several enemies.
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Taking the random arrow from the archer you didn't see, getting bumped by the cavalry you didn't see, getting slashed by the ninja you didn't see.
Stuff like that would lead to a quick end for an agility build, while a strength build will keep huffing and puffing
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I still think agi and str builds are pretty well balanced. The one thing that could really use a change though is speed penalties. Making speed penalties linear instead of percentile-based is all the buff that agi builds need.
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They are pretty balanced until first raindrop :rolleyes:
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You might want to reconsider this because my main one hits evryone. But there aren't alot of people that roll the same build I do so.
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STR : Very slightly increased damage (wpf and speed bonus versus PS), more if you play like a retard. More HP and significantly better survivability if you are not mobile. Also, you don't lose much wearing heavy armor when you are already slow.
AGI : Much better foot acceleration, slightly increased top speed. A potentially much higher survivability through dodging projectiles, cav and avoiding being ganked. A decent level is usually required to pull off any dirty engine abusing duelling trick.
In the end, STR and AGI are both balanced with each other but situational in their own way. What you should use depends on your playstyle, not what other people say.
Patient and defensive players will probably prefer STR chars because they don't feel an urge to kill their opponents quickly, and usually don't need it because they stay safe, while twitch centric and aggressive players will prefer AGI chars for their capacity to bring down enemies quickly and using their speed to get a tactical edge.
STR is forgiving for duelling errors like missing a block, but AGI is forgiving planning/awareness errors with it's wonderful dodging. Also, the longer your weapon the less you have to care about all of this because you have to block once in a blue moon.
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Extreme str build is much more useful than extreme agi build.
Now a days balanced are best due ranged spam but STR build are super effective on siege.
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Extreme str build is much more useful than extreme agi build.
True, a 36/3 character is playable and given the right situation can be quite good.
But a 12/27 char can actually be very good too, and adaptable to many more situations. Builds without a minimum of 9 str all suck, that's true (except in rageball). But anyway it doesn't really matter, as you said, balanced builds are best.
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>implying strength builds are not viable or less viable than agi builds
this is not true.