cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Pentecost on October 02, 2012, 04:43:57 pm

Title: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Pentecost on October 02, 2012, 04:43:57 pm
The purpose of this guide is to offer some perspective to any interested parties on good, common, and generally "safe" heirloom choices in each item class as well as some explanation as to why those choices are better than others in their same class. When pertinent, heirloom choices that should generally be avoided will also be mentioned.

Disclaimer: The most important factor when deciding on an item to heirloom should be whether you are comfortable moving in it/attacking with it. This guide is meant to be an informative rather than authoritative one with respect to that point, as there are many players who are surpassingly effective in combat with very unorthodox equipment choices. Your gameplay experience may also lead you to a different conclusion about specific items those that I have reached here. At the end of the day, you should use what you're good with and can afford, regardless of what this guide says or does not say about it.


Horses

General info about heirlooming horses: Some new players make the mistake of heirlooming a horse first, only to find that playing cavalry in cRPG is a very different experience than playing it in native. Make sure you've either spent a generation or more as cavalry or a sufficient amount of time testing it out on a skip the fun character before you commit resources to being cavalry, or you will likely end up selling your +1 horse back at a loss. Keep in mind also that horses are very expensive. Heirlooming a horse that is more expensive than what you need to function and that you cannot use all the time due to cost is less advisable than heirlooming a cheaper but still effective horse that you can use constantly or almost constantly and still make money.
 

Good heirloom choices:

Destrier - Possibly the best horse overall. A Champion Destrier offers good durability, speed, and manueverability at a very competitive price. 

Arabian - The most manuverable horse and the other main contender for the title of best horse. It is most commonly favored by horse crossbow and 2h cavalry players but is great for virtually all other types of cavalry as well--if they can meet the rather steep requirements to ride it.

Rouncey - A favorite of cavalry players on a budget and some hybrids. A Champion Rouncey is slower than a Champion Courser but has comparable stats in most other areas and is significantly cheaper and easier to ride.


Situational heirloom choices:

Courser - The fastest horse. It is the premier horse for lancing due to its speed but other types of cavalry may or may not be better served by some of the other choices available. Note that if you want to ride a heirloomed Courser, you may want to trade for one as opposed to actually spending points on one, as they are very common on the marketplace.


Bad heirloom choices:

Plated Charger - Despite the fact that it has 70 listed armor, this, like all other horses, only applies to its body and head. It effectively has zero armor when people aim for its legs, which is comparatively easy for anyone who is aware of you thanks to how slow the Plated Charger is. Compounding these issues is its tremendous upkeep cost (over 4000 gold per repair) and how it sits very high off the ground--1h and 2h cavalry players riding a Champion Plated Charger will have to be better at aiming their swings if they want to connect with an opponent compared to if they rode a smaller armored horse like a Cataphract.


One-handed

General info about heirlooming one-handed weapons: For one-handed weapons, more than for other weapon types, you will need to be willing to determine what you value most and make some compromises. As a rule of thumb, the most damaging one-handed weapons are very short, which are harder to use in most situations and make you very easy to kick if you are not careful, while the longer one-handed weapons may be comparatively lacking in damage against targets with 50 or more armor depending your build.

Good heirloom choices:

Italian Sword/Knightly Arming Sword/Nordic Champion's Sword - Very well-balanced weapons that are variations on the same theme of "classic cruciform sword". The Italian is the fastest, cheapest to upkeep, and has the best thrust, while the Nordic Champion's Sword and Knightly Arming Swords are slightly longer and have slightly better slashes. All three of them have great reach for a 1h and give you good attacks in all four directions.

Warhammer/Steel Pick - Your go-to weapons if you want to take apart well-armored targets. The pick is a little faster and has moderately better damage against the most highly protected players, but the warhammer has knockdown--a very good chance of it too.

Broad 1h Battleaxe - There are many different offerings when it comes to 1h axes, and this is arguably the best of them all. The Broad 1h Battleaxe is fast, powerful, and shreds through shields like they're cardboard/SCA props. Furthermore, although it is a shorter weapon, as all axes are, it does not absolutely cripple your reach in the way that the shortest weapons do. Keep in mind also that despite the fact that the secondary mode on it has a decent amount of piercing (28p after three improvements), it's mainly there for flavor; the raw power of the primary mode will pretty much always be better damage. 


Situational heirloom choices:

Military Cleaver - This is possibly the one exception to the above rule about damage vs. ease of use. A Masterwork Military Cleaver does as much damage as an unheirloomed German Greatsword (38c) and has a very respectable 92 length, at the expense of being on the slow side for a 1h and not having a thrust. The fact that it is quite cheap for what it brings to the table is also a good point.

Long Espada Eslavona - A favorite of some swashbucklers. It's very long, very fast, and has a very mean thrust (31p!). Its heirloom bonuses are also better than most other melee weapons, but this is likely a consequence of its base form being rather weak for its cost. Note that if you want to wield a heirloomed Long Espada, you may want to trade for one as opposed to actually spending points on one, as they are very common on the marketplace.


Bad heirloom choices:

Side Sword - A long time ago, this apparently used to be the best 1h sword hands down. Those days are long past, however. The Side Sword in its current incarnation is statistically identical to the Long Espada except for a slight increase in speed and a slight loss of range. It's also a little cheaper. That said, it's not really worth heirlooming, considering length and damage are at a premium for 1h. While you may have to sacrifice one for the other, you probably should not sacrifice both for small gains in other areas where 1h already has advantages, such as speed or cost. Unfortunately, this is what the Side Sword ultimately does.

Espada Eslavona - A sword that has the dubious distinction of being the weakest weapon in the upper price point of 1h. The younger brother of the Long Espada has an even stronger thrust at the expense of range and damage; on a Masterwork Espada Eslavona, you get a 33p thrust in exchange for 90 length and 28c on your slashes. The result is a Masterwork weapon that has three attacks in which an unheirloomed Short Falchion/Nordic Sword outdamage it and one very powerful attack that is of situational use at best thanks to the Espada not having the accompanying reach to really take advantage of it.

----------------------------------------

This is what I've written so far; I am currently working on 2h and will move on to poles after that is finished. Now obviously, everyone is going to have a different opinion on this kind of thing, but are there any glaring omissions of or errors about certain items? Is the formatting, tone, and style acceptable? Is it informative but to the point? Any criticism is welcome.

Also, does the Elite Scimitar deserve a mention in the 1h section? I know it's quite a common MW, but I'm honestly not sure why. The NCS is better unless you are someone who specifically wants a sword that does not have a thrust, in which case there are options besides the Elite Scimitar that are arguably better.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Cepeshi on October 02, 2012, 04:48:34 pm
If you want to make money, you should know what to do. If not, in general: loom anything you enjoy plaing with, do not loom something you will rarely use...  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 02, 2012, 05:37:42 pm
Good things to loom:

Body armor, at +3 gives +5 body and +5 leg armor.  Your weapon is actually not always that important to loom, you typically gain 2 more speed, and 3-5 more damage on it.  If you ride a horse, loom your horse to +3 first, then your body armor second, melee weapon 3rd (maybe melee before body armor, up to you really).  As much as I love my +3 heavy lance, my +3 heraldic mail with surcoat is way more important (didn't realize this until after I loomed my +3 heavy lance first). 

If you use a bow and arrow, I'd suggest looming those first (not sure which to do first, probably the bow I'd assume).
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Zanze on October 02, 2012, 05:45:27 pm
If you are just starting the game, loom your gloves first before you do anything. I loomed my mail mittens way back in the day and have yet to take them off since despite going a variety of classes. This will give you at least 1 constant heirloom as you try out some of the classes in the game. Also, the difference between heirloomed gloves is night and day.

After that I personally suggest armor or horses. Staying alive is very, very important in this game. 10% armor is worth way more than 10% damage. IMO.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Elindor on October 02, 2012, 06:14:34 pm
From what I hear (not ranged myself) ranged characters need to loom their bows/xbows FIRST....because those weapons are not really viable until loomed unfortunately.

I actually found that the same was true for my longsword...a MW longsword is a dangerous weapon but a regular one just doesnt pack enough punch usually.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Joseph Porta on October 02, 2012, 06:38:48 pm
Gloves first, imo, then body/horse etc.

Ofcourse if youre dedicated archer/xbow do your weapon first.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Mlekce on October 02, 2012, 06:53:47 pm
Avoid looming 2h,polearm weapons,avoid looming kuyak,and heraldic items,avoid looming horses,avoid looming items to +1.
Always buy this items from others,dont loom it urself.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 02, 2012, 07:14:58 pm
yeah good point, you're better off buying most +1's after selling your loompoint.  You will typically make money doing this. 
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Turboflex on October 02, 2012, 08:40:45 pm
First off, you really shouldn't be looming stuff yourself... Save up your first 2 loompoints, then you can go shopping on market. 2 points + a bit of gold (between 25k - 200k) should buy you almost any +3 out there besides some real rare stuff. There you just got a +3 item for the price of 2 retirements.


In general, +3 items you want to make a priority:

1h cut weps (swords) are good, that +3 damage is often difference between a solid hit and a glance with these tempermental weapons. There is a huge difference between 7 PS and a +3 1h sword, and 6 PS and a non-loomed sword, you will glance like crazy with the latter.

Foot spears like longspear, bamboo, pike, ashwood, etc. are solid weapons to find +3 (a bit rare tho) also since they are lower base damage. They pick up a lot of damage on speed bonus, so +3 really magnifies this.

gloves and body armor best armors, gives you a lot more benefit than looming helm or boots. Just don't loom leather, you wanna loom mail armor that gives +5 bonus at 3rd level loom.

Shield is really solid to loom too, it improves most shields by like 20% so a good early investment if you really like shielding and are gonna stick to it. I wouldn't recommend looming a 2 slot (8 weight or over) shield tho... They are too much shield, more than you need, and you can't use a range wep like throwing or xbow with them.

Throwing weps are very solid looms too but probably not a priority.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: agweber on October 03, 2012, 03:34:23 pm
My guide, sell your loom point and buy/sell items for profit instead of gear. I haven't really been active in game the last couple weeks, but I've turned that ~500k from my loompoint into (currently) a MW sword and 300k. If you have any patience early on, you can invest your money to get a little pocket of funds to make you more viable, especially if you're a slow retiree such as myself. 4 months in and I've retired once, with a long ways to go before my second still.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Tzar on October 03, 2012, 03:39:00 pm
Only useless looms are head armor since +5 armor vs the sick dmg bonus people get when they slap you on the head makes looming your head armor irrelevant.

 
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Teeth on October 03, 2012, 04:11:08 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on October 02, 2012, 05:37:42 pm
Your weapon is actually not always that important to loom, you typically gain 2 more speed, and 3-5 more damage on it.
1 speed, 3 damage it's main damage, 2 on the other one. You also gain weight with certain weapons, which is important for crushtrough and knockdown.

Generally though, body armor is the best thing to loom first. If planning on switching to ranged aswell loom a light set of gloves. I would advise new players to sell their loompoints until they understand what to loom or to buy.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Turboflex on October 03, 2012, 04:17:51 pm
It's not useless looming a decent helm, that extra +5 can be the difference to surviving a lot of headshots with helmets that are above 40 armor (especially 45). Even below that will give you some better survival against teammates' headshots, or when opponents land weak ones with no speed bonus, or negative speed bonus.

Still obviously better to loom body armor/gloves before helm, just don't be one of these guys who don't wear helms (or boots), or who wear plate and a leather skullcup. Better players will be targetting your obvious weak area if you leave one, and will punish you for it.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Elindor on October 03, 2012, 05:32:37 pm
Also, remember that ...

Retiring at:
LVL 31 = 1 LP
LVL 32 = 2 LP
LVL 33 = 3 LP
You get more for lvl 34 and 35 but that's so much time its crazy. 

:arrow:  I would SUGGEST retiring at lvl 32 if you don't like being a peasant over and over, because it doesn't take that long and you'll be "full" level for much of it so it isn't as much of a grind - just playing.

Retiring at 32 will give you 2 LP and you can sell those on market for a +3 item.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Mlekce on October 03, 2012, 06:17:41 pm
can anyone tell me what is wrong with mail hauberk? I am giving lordly mail hauberk and gold for archon's armor,and no one want to accept it.
I mean Archon's worth 1100 000k, and hauberk worth more.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 03, 2012, 07:10:25 pm
Quote from: Elindor on October 03, 2012, 05:32:37 pm
Also, remember that ...

Retiring at:
LVL 31 = 1 LP
LVL 32 = 2 LP
LVL 33 = 3 LP
You get more for lvl 34 and 35 but that's so much time its crazy. 

:arrow:  I would SUGGEST retiring at lvl 32 if you don't like being a peasant over and over, because it doesn't take that long and you'll be "full" level for much of it so it isn't as much of a grind - just playing.

Retiring at 32 will give you 2 LP and you can sell those on market for a +3 item.

And I'd advise against that.  Retiring at level 32 is the same as going from 1-31, two times.  SO you get two loom points either way.  If you retire at level 32 however, you're missing one full generation bonus (3% more experience).

The only time retiring at level 32 would be good is if you are already at gen 16 (the cap for xp bonus)
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Elindor on October 03, 2012, 08:32:12 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on October 03, 2012, 07:10:25 pm
And I'd advise against that.  Retiring at level 32 is the same as going from 1-31, two times.  SO you get two loom points either way.  If you retire at level 32 however, you're missing one full generation bonus (3% more experience).

The only time retiring at level 32 would be good is if you are already at gen 16 (the cap for xp bonus)

Mathematically you are right Huseby, because of the gen bonus.

But my suggestion is from a gameplay standpoint.  If someone is deterred from retiring over and over because they don't want to be almost always "under leveled" and not "full build" (ie 30+), then leveling to 32 or 33 although not as efficient technically is better from a gameplay standpoint because they spend much much more time at full level just playing.

There are a lot of players that do not want to constantly be retiring, and many that because of that are like gen 1 or 2 still.  The option of leveling to 32 or 33 and the retiring one time for 2-3 LPs is appealing to them.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Malaclypse on October 03, 2012, 08:36:31 pm
Can't go wrong with heirlooming Long Espada or Danish Greatsword :3
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on October 03, 2012, 09:58:26 pm
Quote from: Malaclypse on October 03, 2012, 08:36:31 pm
Can't go wrong with heirlooming Long Espada or Danish Greatsword :3

Yeah, those are almost as rare as the kuyak.
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Ubereem on October 07, 2012, 07:26:52 am
Quote from: Turboflex on October 02, 2012, 08:40:45 pm

gloves and body armor best armors, gives you a lot more benefit than looming helm or boots. Just don't loom leather, you wanna loom mail armor that gives +5 bonus at 3rd level loom.


what do leather gloves give you? do weapons react differently to mail than to leather in this game? is 8 leather not the same as 8 mail? im seriously asking lol cause i need some new gloves
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: FrugFrug on October 07, 2012, 08:00:22 am
Lighter armors loomed to 3+ only give 4+ to armor instead of the normal 5+ from the heavier armors.
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Pentecost on October 12, 2012, 07:55:35 pm
Up.
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Phew on October 16, 2012, 03:55:03 pm
A more succinct heirloom guide:

-Never loom an item to +1, always trade your heirloom point for the +1 item+gold, or save up 2 heirloom points to trade for a +3 item
-Never loom anything but gloves. You can trade +3 gloves for pretty much any other +3 item+gold. The lone exception is newly-added items (for instance, the new brigandine armors when they first came out). These are often worth more than gloves for a few months after they are added.

...and that's about it.
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Byrdi on October 22, 2012, 10:16:09 am
Maybe you should add the Arbalest and Danish Greatsword. There are so many of them on the market that it is a dumb to loom them yourself when you can buy one for 2 loom points.
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Casimir on October 22, 2012, 01:20:57 pm
Only my old friend 2h cav use arbian, real men ride Horses made for war!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Emotion on October 22, 2012, 02:32:55 pm
(click to show/hide)

Very good man. Although my opinions differ a little. Very well written.
For the future you have many, many 2h's to mention. I would like to see a solid precise comparison of HBS-LS, GGS-DGS, Great Maul-Mallet, Langes Messer-Mace. I think you should also mention the Katana, Flamberge, Sword of War, Great Axe, (Studded War Club?) :P.
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Baillin on December 05, 2012, 08:24:55 am
Is there an up to date list of all the bonuses to equipment?
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: brockssn on December 05, 2012, 09:51:07 pm
I'd edit this thread and replace it with All Heirloom ranks are the same. /thread
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Jarlek on December 06, 2012, 09:47:21 pm
Quote from: Casimir on October 22, 2012, 01:20:57 pm
Only my old friend 2h cav use arbian, real men ride Horses made for war!

(click to show/hide)
That's the horse I use :D

I also got a +3 courser, but I haven't used it once for the whole gen (almost 32 now).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: A basic guide on generally good and generally bad heirloom choices by item type?
Post by: Formless on December 07, 2012, 12:27:15 am
Quote from: Zanze on October 02, 2012, 05:45:27 pm
If you are just starting the game, loom your gloves first before you do anything. I loomed my mail mittens way back in the day and have yet to take them off since despite going a variety of classes. This will give you at least 1 constant heirloom as you try out some of the classes in the game. Also, the difference between heirloomed gloves is night and day.

After that I personally suggest armor or horses. Staying alive is very, very important in this game. 10% armor is worth way more than 10% damage. IMO.

Totally agree, Gloves first then armour, heirloomed those first, makes a big difference. 
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Mlekce on December 07, 2012, 11:58:41 am
good weapon choices for 1h

warhammer
nordic champion sword
knightly arming sword (by on market only)
military cleaver (buy it on market)
broad one handed axe
steel pick
military hammer
elite scimitar (don't loom this,by it on market cheap)
Arabian cavalry sword (god for 1h cav)
langes messer (this one buy only)
italian sword
long arming sword (almost the same sword as KAS,but cheaper)
Niuweidao (buy on market only)
Liuyedao (buy this on market. i have this mw it is awesome,and it is cheap)
Nordic War Sword (it is good sword,similar to italian sword,dunno what to do with this)

This is list of useful, decent and some great 1h weapons out there. Ppl say also that  iberian mace is good,but dunno i didn't liked it.

good shields

elite cavalry shield
round shield
heavy round shield
Plate Covered Round Shield
Huscarl's Round Shield

thees shields are most valuable items.  Huscarl's Round Shield is the cheapest of all of them.
You only want to have round shields because they will give you more cover from arrows on sides,on not round shields archers can shoot you in side so that is why they are bad.

Armors

don't loom kuyaks,they are the cheapest armors,always buy it if you like.
Always loom some good looking item,and more weight and upkeep armor have it is harder to sell and will have cheaper price on market.
Avoid getting palace guard armor,scale armor and always avoid sarranid mail shirt.
also avoid looming green Surcoat over Mail,and tunic over mail armors,skutatos armor,weaboo gear too.
cheaper items you can find on market (haumbergeon,mail hauberk,heraldic mail with tabard,mongol armor is quite shit in look).
extremely rare items that doesn't rely worth much  Archon's armor. I have it mw and if you sell it be shure that you will never find other one on market.
i sold it once and it took me 4 moths to buy new one,and price was jew.
If you have it don't sell it.

best armors to loom are khergit lamellar armor,mail shirt,byrnie. best to buy armors are (sarranid guard armor and those in that range.)
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Turboflex on December 07, 2012, 04:28:00 pm
None of the things you listed should be loomed. Even harder to find 1h like steel pick or italian can eventually be purchased maybe a bit more expensive for 2 points + 200-250k, but that still saves you 250k over 3 loompoints.

There's so many looms floating around now, there's pretty much zero reason for you to loom anything yourself besides a new item just added to game unless you are completely impatient and unwilling to trade.
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: BADPLAYER_old2 on December 07, 2012, 07:22:21 pm
Protip if you are cavalry I would suggest looming your lance first especially if you prefer the Heavy Lance, the extra damage you gain is massive considering it increases by % with speed bonus too.
Personally I would loom a lance even before a horse.
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Tore on December 07, 2012, 07:59:38 pm
this guide sucks, everyone knows you should loom a wooden stick first :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 10/12 WIP - Guide on generally good and bad heirloom choices by item type
Post by: Inglorious on December 07, 2012, 09:44:13 pm
Quote from: idle on December 07, 2012, 07:22:21 pm
Protip if you are cavalry I would suggest looming your lance first especially if you prefer the Heavy Lance, the extra damage you gain is massive considering it increases by % with speed bonus too.
Personally I would loom a lance even before a horse.

+3'd my great lance before my horse  8-)

Now I have a +3 charger and soon to be +3 courser