cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: TheGriffin88 on April 15, 2011, 12:08:53 am
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Anyway to make spear and shield slightly more effective? only being able to thrust even with the shortest of spears makes it pretty much a useless combo, your essentially waiting to get your shield broke. Maybe the spear could be a special 1h version, or possibly just let us press X and get a slightly different attack, even just an overhead.
There's a whole kind of sets of characters that could become available because of this.
I'm sure others will weigh in with how this could be balanced, or whether they even approve.
Given the talk about 1/2 slot items, maybe you could make a weak 1h 1slot version and a stronger 1h 2 slots alternative for those wanting to go pure spear / shield (as given my understanding a good shield and spear would equal 4 slots, so no room even for a low level sword).
All the best.
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Been complained, desired, complained, reposted, posted, reposted, again.....we have tried so many times to get this done. All they do is say its impossible and this post returns to the dust and waste of time.
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None of the other M&M mods got a 1handed spear?, is there no way of just using an overhead thrust animation?
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Vikingr has a secondary mode for shield and spear which makes it more suited for stabbing the riders of horses. Still only one attack direction though, but its something
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A spear and shield combo is made for support. Not for dueling or one-man-armys. Surrounded? Backpedal to your allies.
I do agree with the overhead stab though.
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It is a support class yes, but hard to support when your totally predictable. In fact won't this patch make them even less viable?
If a polearm and good shield will cost 4 slots then you can't even have a terrible sword to back you up in 1v1s (which will happen whether your supporting or not).
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This is really gay. use a sword or scroll backwards and fight properly. Are you that unwilling to learn how to block that you have to ruin a weapon with a shield. It was my understanding that a shield spear combo was for fighting horsemen not infantry.
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It is indeed a support role and works quite well.
I imagine the short spears will only take up 1 slot, but something like the Awlpike might take up 2, so it might be time for 1h/polearm hybrids who use spear/shield/sword?
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Just a couple points : Spear/shield isn't a dueling setup, but that doesn't mean that you can't 1v1 effectively. Really fast people will kill you, since the animation for S/S is a little slow, but you can learn to take down an average player pretty efficiently.
The problem with having an overhead attack with S/S, is what would the animation look like? If it looks anything like a normal thrust, then it'd be way too difficult to block, which would make it over powered.
Also, only the Huscarl shield and Board Shields are going to take double slots. Kite shield, Cav shield, Heater Shield, etc. will still allow you to bring a back up 1h to use if you get into an uncomfortable spot.
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The Spear-Shield combo is never meant to be a duelist setup.
The only people I see perform well with this Spartan configuration on a regular basis are Beeper, Onimaho (Spa), WaltF4 and NoobieATS.
Otherwise, this combo has always been meant as a teamwork configuration. You'll find a couple people every now and then running around with stabb-y weapons rocking out with them, because of the opponent-switch-off routine.
Rhuell and I tend to have a good time just running around piking stuff as a combo, and all we ever do is stab, and not really bother with the overheads. Albeit when we're doing the pike combo thing, it tends to mean we're not seriously playing at all (probably snickering in TS about how funny Sauce looks in his armor).
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This is really gay. use a sword or scroll backwards and fight properly. Are you that unwilling to learn how to block that you have to ruin a weapon with a shield. It was my understanding that a shield spear combo was for fighting horsemen not infantry.
People who can block use shields as well. Why does everyone have to agree with how you want to play the game? Shields are part of medevil fighting, don't be such a hater.
I don't expect it to be a dueling class, just adds more variation to the game, if you had a spear and a shield you could attack overhead - there are less realistic things in the game, and I don't mean realistic as in a 'everything should be period' kind of way.
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If at all, I fight with a shortened spear. Even that is slow as hell with 110 wpf and usually gets me killed. Buff just a bit to make it a part-viable class please!
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I agree as it stands there are few and far between players who can utilise the class as it is, why not make it semi-viable. It's all well and good saying 'its a teamplay class', but one may as well go 2h and just pike people from twice the distance away the way it stands. Also just stabbing is almost useless against anyone who can block downwards (consider someone using automatic as well) , your not always 2v1 against the enemy and there are only so many times you can pretend your not looking at someone then swing round and thrust.
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Spear & shield is one of my favourite combos, it'd be nice to have an overhead thrust but alas, I doubt it'll ever happen. When I played spear & shield a while ago I could kill those that were careless and/or underestimated me one on one, but too often I had to throw my shield on my back so the enemy couldn't block every thrust.
It's main role as others have said is support. Stopping horseman, suprise poking at people in duels etc.
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You guys are really lame. I would rather that there was a wider range of more specialized and effective spears than a new attack direction. That is longer spears that are more effective at countering cavalry and shorter ones for fighting infantry and S/S. This would increase the usability and general purposes of the whole spear weapon categories. Spears are one of the oldest weapons in the world and they did work why, cant they be a little more effective at killing people.
some suggestions:Infantry spear, fighting spear, short spear, long spear and so on.
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You guys are really lame. I would rather that there was a wider range of more specialized and effective spears than a new attack direction. That is longer spears that are more effective at countering cavalry and shorter ones for fighting infantry and S/S. This would increase the usability and general purposes of the whole spear weapon categories. Spears are one of the oldest weapons in the world and they did work why, cant they be a little more effective at killing people.
some suggestions:Infantry spear, fighting spear, short spear, long spear and so on.
This is still 2 handed. There are many much lamer things in the game than being able to stab in two directions with a shield, they could limit the 2 attacks to smaller spears only so you don't have ridiculous range.
I don't see the problem at all, and you saying 'Its lame' without much explanation suggests that you don't want it because it might piss you off. It makes a new class of fighter which adds a new dynamic to the whole class system, stop being so conservative they would still only have 2 attacks - easy to block no? But would give those who wanted to the option to make a cool spear/shield class and new tactics with it.
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You guys are really lame. I would rather that there was a wider range of more specialized and effective spears than a new attack direction. That is longer spears that are more effective at countering cavalry and shorter ones for fighting infantry and S/S. This would increase the usability and general purposes of the whole spear weapon categories. Spears are one of the oldest weapons in the world and they did work why, cant they be a little more effective at killing people.
Short Spear
Spear
War Spear
Boar Spear
Light Lance
Lance
Heavy Lance
Double Sided Lance
Awlpike
Long Awlpike
Bamboo Spear
Ashwood Pike
Pike
Military Fork
Battle Fork
I don't know what you'd want to add which isn't covered with these already.
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Spears are to short.
I dont want to use a lance or a two direction weapon as a primary. atm spears are completely outclassed by military scythes and glaives. They shouldn't be.
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You guys are really lame. I would rather that there was a wider range of more specialized and effective spears than a new attack direction. That is longer spears that are more effective at countering cavalry and shorter ones for fighting infantry and S/S. This would increase the usability and general purposes of the whole spear weapon categories. Spears are one of the oldest weapons in the world and they did work why, cant they be a little more effective at killing people.
some suggestions:Infantry spear, fighting spear, short spear, long spear and so on.
Suggestions: Spear, war-spear, shortened spear, pike.
nice work owens.
Spear and shield was based to be a SUPPORT role, never 1v1, if there was 2+ directions itd be op.
If you want to 1v1 with a spear, use it as 2h; as they are meant for that.
I am leaving, for I have to do a poo now.
Keep it real pimps
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Don't forget the awlpikes, they are brutal. Long Awl with a shield is excellent anti cav. I believe single handed animation's have a longer reach that 2handed.
A spear and shield is more effective at duelling in reality, as your opponent has to get past the spear, rather than simply hugging you and phasing through it.
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Don't forget the awlpikes, they are brutal. Long Awl with a shield is excellent anti cav. I believe single handed animation's have a longer reach that 2handed.
A spear and shield is more effective at duelling in reality, as your opponent has to get past the spear, rather than simply hugging you and phasing through it.
Pretty sure LONG awlpike cannot be used with a shield.
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Pretty sure LONG awlpike cannot be used with a shield.
Correct, though it was possible at an earlier patch as well as in native.
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An overhead stab would be VERY usefull, if it would also be useable on horse-back that would be epic, Roman style overhead stabbing ftw. Would make the battlefield look alot better too, because there would be more spear+shielders, and spear+shield was used quite a lot in medieval times.
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maybe spears should get crushthrough since deflecting a long object can be difficult.
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Spears doesn't need a buff, and definitely not a new attacking direction with shield. Spears are one of the most effective weapons in the game, when used right
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maybe spears should get crushthrough since deflecting a long object can be difficult.
Crushthrough? But how, when with shield they can't overhead (no overhead no crushthrough)
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Crushthrough? But how, when with shield they can't overhead (no overhead no crushthrough)
i meant pierce curshtrough but its hardcoded i guess
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The role they play (1h spear and shield) is the same role ANY other class could play in the same situation, in fact most classes would be better. 2v1 you may as well use a pike or a lolhammer or just spam stab/overhead with any other weapon. Saying it is a good support class or is good is the right hands/circumstances
A spear and a shield is a novelty class at the moment, except yes versus cav. But then you may as well go for a full length 2her so they can't get close to you in the first place. Spear/Shield doesn't keep people at bay, instant facehug and your stuck looking down and then up quickly to try and get anything but a whiff.
Were not asking for some ultra OP spartan class with insane damage, just the opportunity to do something other than stab down. Someone with a guide dog specifically designed for playing internet games and trolling forums could down-block that all day.
Some of the more famous formations included spears and shields [See: Hoplite Dori / Dorys shorter spears specifically designed for one hand use, weighing only a few pound. As it stands, unless there is more of you than there is of the enemy this is not a viable build, not without the fact that you can currently have a a high-tier sword with the load-out as well.
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Strongly disagree. It is already quite good and effective weapon. However deadly for both sides when used in the wrong hands (like mine).
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This isn't a: Are you good enough to use a half-viable class, I'm aware there are some exceptional players who can make this work for them. But for others it really is a useless class, only fit for quickly dieing in situations where you don't really outnumber the enemy.
Again, we don't want a 1v1 class we just want the ability to not be insta-killed by the weapons inability to be anything but extremely predicatable. You won't see many people in tournaments seriously using spear/shield (granted 1 or 2) even then.., And it's going to get nerfed with new slots, nerfing an ultra nerfed class, whats the big objection to making spear/shield at least usable in anything other than 10v1 fights.
The way its set up, the only people making this class seriously are those who have made every other kind and are just trying more unique/theme builds. It should be an option people are at least considering for a decent normal class.
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what build are you using mate?
i was trying 18/18 21/15 15/21 as a spear n boarder. It is really pretty effective (except Cyber :( )
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I've never played any other class than a turtle. Ofcourse, i use a long hafted blade, or a great long axe, but still, i am more usefull with a war spear and a shield.
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And again, it'll never happen unless you provide the devs with a working code...........this topic has been brought up 3-4 times already and the response has been its impossible. So, prove it otherwise and stick it to them.
No it will not be OP since they will only have two stab options and not to mention a shield spear stabs at a slower rate then any other weapon. Yes, the enemy will need to learn to block a different attack, so what cry me a river this games semi-realism and difficulty is what makes it fun.
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Made a War Spear/Elite Cav shield build.
While not the most effective build, it's the one I've had the most fun with, but then again I'm playing naked so even with 3 athletics I'm a flying rocket, dancing in clusterfucks and just stabbing unsuspecting people and flying off to the moon is just great.
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This is gay. Use a sword please.
alternatively don't use a shield i understand your longing to stab people while shielding yourself, but its not at all effective and never will be. Maybe someone should make a 1H thats good at stabbing and looks spear like but in the meantime don't shield in melee and 1v1's ffs.
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Sir, if a sword could only be overhead swung when clearly in real life there are far more options. You would thirst for more wouldn't you? So, in the meantime sit down and be quiet. If your too scared to fight a weapon that has 2 attack directions then I'm sorry for you and perhaps you should look into alternative games.
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Hey how about learn how to block. Its not that hard and makes every single close quarters weapon better. Spear and sheild is a retarded combo how many heroes of myth, legend and reality only used a spear and a shield. Only a couple of homosexual greeks. So think about it add a a glitchy overhead stab that looks retarded and doesn't look right when blocked or get some nuts.
Peace out jew-my old friends keep it pimpen
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Oh if they make the awlpike or war spear take up 2 slots you'll never see another spartan type build. It's already the most gimped build in the game with the one direction to block. I know I do it about every 4 gens or slightly more. It's good if you got alot of 1h builds with ya to support you as well. It's something that requires team work to play and it'll probably get nurffed into the ground with the patch. What I mean is that if you can't spawn with a decent weapon that you can swing b/c they are all taking up 2 weapon slots too no one will do this style anymore.
Which is really sad because it is the most under powered fighting style in game. I mean 1 attack direction and with spears or polearms you are gonna glance alot. You must learn to master the art of the turn stab which is very risky in most fights.
With a shield bash type attack that would open up an oppents attack say 1.5-2x longer than the stun from a kick with say idk a 20 reset timmer before you can do it again sheild and spear would get the boost it needs to be effective. But that is something unto itself and will probably never happen.
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How many hero's used spears and shields, just some my old friendgy greeks.
Owens you are the ultimate troll, swords and shields are more common than 2handed weapons if your talking history.
Secondly, more cheese with your whine?
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I do rather fine as things are now, as a spear/shielder. In 1 v 1 fights I can beat your average player, I can rape horses (ironic, since I'm am hoplite/lancer build), and I'm extremely effective when working with teammates. The spear/shield build is a TEAMWORK build, plain and simple. Either travel with the team/clusterfuck in general, or pick a specific battle buddy to follow around.
I must reiterate that it is more than possible to defend yourself as a spear and shielder when you find yourself without allies. Work on timing, and get high athletics. Worse comes to worst you put your shield on your back... spears are extremely fast weapons when used w/o the shield.
Also, the Greeks weren't the only people with spear/shielder heroes. The Franks had heroes who fought with spear and shield, too.
A shield bash would be epic, but 1h/shielders would have to do it too, and that would make 'em even more popular and, arguably, over powered. Two stab directions would be too difficult to block, since they're both stabs and very similar.
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Pretty sure once the shield wall broke in the Greek battles they started using their swords instead of spears.
+1 to above post. Support weapon,not a good duel weapon.
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Giving another stab option does not make it a dueling weapon, it is still too slow. The speed for the stab is decreased due too the shield use. The additional stab option will make shield spear team work more viable because they can attack the same target with two different blows. What this will lead to is spear walls being almost necessary to any battle because the enemy cant just down block to get in close to attack them anymore.
Spear stab damage in general is very low compared to all other weapon options out there, not too mention you need perfect timing and movement to get the full positive speed bonus.
SO, stop whining and lets give this a try. If its too OP the spear damage and speed can always be nerfed to compensate. I fail to see why trying something out is such a horrible idea.
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Giving another stab option does not make it a dueling weapon, it is still too slow. The speed for the stab is decreased due too the shield use. The additional stab option will make shield spear team work more viable because they can attack the same target with two different blows. What this will lead to is spear walls being almost necessary to any battle because the enemy cant just down block to get in close to attack them anymore.
Spear stab damage in general is very low compared to all other weapon options out there, not too mention you need perfect timing and movement to get the full positive speed bonus.
SO, stop whining and lets give this a try. If its too OP the spear damage and speed can always be nerfed to compensate. I fail to see why trying something out is such a horrible idea.
Aaamen.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMiDMuws6oo&feature=related
Check out this spartan mod, fast forward to the spear combat they have multiple directions to attack (though I don't necessarily endorse more than 2) also, it looks so sweet.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMiDMuws6oo&feature=related
Check out this spartan mod, fast forward to the spear combat they have multiple directions to attack (though I don't necessarily endorse more than 2) also, it looks so sweet.
grip on the high thrust is all wrong. it should be held like a javelin that you're going to throw
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Yes, it must be made so that it is easily distinguishable from a downward thrust. But I just meant the multiple directions and the general look of the crew of spartan'esc characters. Good times.
Edit: Maybe we should push for a right sided swipe instead? Maybe it would be easier to implement. However the fact you are essentially hitting someone with the side of a stick doesn't bode well for doing any damage. Especially versus a plated enemy.
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It was the games animation for "shield" bash