cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Kherr on April 14, 2011, 04:28:31 pm
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I read a lot about heirlooms and what to do with them in other threads. A few weeks ago the bandit Fasader stole a lot...
There are low generation player with no or only one or two heirlooms, medium player with a few and no liver with a lot of heirloomed items. There are people out there with full heirloomed armor and weapons.
So it's unbalanced.
So what to do? Bandit Fasader again? Imho that would not be a good idea. The last time he stole about two third of the heirlooms. The advantage of the no liver would still exist. Also then we could think about the gen bonus also... easy for the non liver to get their heirlooms back.
I would prefer a solution which implements a limited use of heirloomed items. So the no liver are not able to use fully heirloomed armor and weapons all the time.
What about a modified repair system? The repair costs could increase for each heirlooming.
0 heirlooms : 0
1 heirloom : + 5% of weapon/armor cost
2 heirlooms : + 10% of weapon/armor cost for the specificed item/s for each heirlooming
3 heirlooms : + 15% of weapon/armor cost for the specificed item/s for each heirlooming
4 heirlooms : + 20% of weapon/armor cost for the specificed item/s for each heirlooming
5 heirlooms : + 25% of weapon/armor cost for the specificed item/s for each heirlooming
6 heirlooms : + 30% of weapon/armor cost for the specificed item/s for each heirlooming
So let us assume you use a big sword 10,000 gold worth and you heirloomed it two times. The base for the repair price would be 2 * 10% higher.. so 12,000 gold.
If you use a good armor one time heirloomed (20,000 gold) and the two times heirloomed big sword (10,000) the repair base would be 23,000 (+ 1 * 15%) gold for the armor and 13,000 (+ 2 * 15%) for the sword.
So if you have only a few heirlooms it is not a big problem to use them... but you will run out of money very fast if you equip a lot of heirloomed items.
The percentage values are examples only...
What do you think? Better ideas?
Btw... I want to respec my heirlooms. Especially if there is something like the discussed slot system implemented.
And my chars have a lot of heirloomed items... i would not like it if the heirloomed items would be stolen or deleted.
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idiotic propose simply becouse even by heirlooming medium stuff, it become impossible to use it with current upkeep
consider loom a simple sidesword (around 10k) and your shield, another 10k , that become around 27k of equipment. considering that average affordable equip is 30-35k, that leaves to the ppl only 3-8k for armor-gauntlets- helm.
so basicly all in leather. that favourite already str stacker and 2hander who can perma one shoot anybody , and indirectly boost again archers xbowers and throwers. becouse with increase of upkeep cost on loom, we gonna lose even more armor protection since everybody will prefer use theyr loomed weapon over armor
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You are making upkeep even worse than it already is, without giving a solution.
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idiotic propose simply becouse even by heirlooming medium stuff, it become impossible to use it with current upkeep
It is unbalanced if some guys wear full heirloomed equipment all the time. The actual retirement procedure is bogus. Proof? Here:
i take order of masterwork weapon on request :)
can do in 5 day a masterwork
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It is unbalanced if some guys wear full heirloomed equipment all the time. The actual retirement procedure is bogus. Proof? Here:
only becouse you are too lazy to make them, remove them is only your personal QQ, whatever the system will be in crpg i will always have advantage becouse whenever an advantage is gained by time, i will do that. so QQ about is pointless. every role play game is based on time more you play more you get.
you not suggest solutions you only cry becouse you are like the fox who not was able to jump enought high for reach the grape
this 3d is against my interest of high gen player go and read it
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3977.0.html
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Wow dude, this (OP) suggestion is lame. :rolleyes: Go play a mod without character progress then.
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Guys... believe it or not, I have enough heirlooms. I dont want to loose them.
I think you miss the point. We had a big patch and the bandit Fasader. Why?
1. They wanted to make retirement much harder.
2. They wanted to make heirloomed items rare and special.
You can check chadz messages. So... imho they did not succeed. With high gen char retirement is easy and there are a lot of heirloomed items out there.
So there are now again discussions about stealing heirloomed items.
I want to avoid that and suggested something different.
The system will change... whether you like it or not.
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I'm really in favour of OPs suggestion. Of course the numbers are placeholders but even in their raw state they work pretty well in my preliminary calculations. But there's two arguments to be made here:
Is the suggestion justified?
Yes. Each heirloom is statistically only a small bonus, but in some cases that small bonus has a disproportionate effect. A masterwork side sword (MSS), for example, has 103 speed. There are very few weapons, of any generation, that can match that speed. This means that a MSS in close combat is almost unequaled in terms of speed. It's not just a 2% bump to speed, but a massive head and shoulders advantage. The SS moves from being a fast weapon to quite frequently the fastest weapon on the field. Tactically, this is an incredibly important feature for both a person wielding a MSS and an opponent of one. The wielder, if they're competent, knows that they can spam almost any opponent to death so long as they aren't interrupted. The opponent of a MSS must either play with an exceptionally tactical mind or retreat in the face of the MSS.
The other important case is Goretooth. He's a tank, with 3rd gen black armour over his entire body. Many weapons can't penetrate at all, and those that do often do little-to-no actual damage. If even one part of his armour were less Lordly than the rest he'd be an approachable target. Players could aim for his legs, for example, or even just have a better chance at penetrating his breastplate. As it stands, Goretooth fights battles with many opponents' attack not even registering. This seems inappropriate to me, and a situation to be avoided. Increases the overall price of such expensive gear may open up even the thickest of tin cans to some weakness in their equipment and, in my view, make combat far more interesting than just kicking the can till it stops moving.
Is it feasible?
I think so. Vicious made a straw man argument out of the costs which I think distracted from the real merits of OP's case. I think I can respond and reconstruct a proper argument for him:
idiotic propose simply becouse even by heirlooming medium stuff, it become impossible to use it with current upkeep
consider loom a simple sidesword (around 10k) and your shield, another 10k , that become around 27k of equipment. considering that average affordable equip is 30-35k, that leaves to the ppl only 3-8k for armor-gauntlets- helm.
There are two claims here, both of which are erroneous. Vicious claims that medium armour would be impractical with OP's proposed cost increase. Let's take an actual example:
Sarranid Guard Armour heirloomed 3 times gets the same body armour as Transitional Heraldic Mail (52) and it weighs way less. However, even with a 30% increase in cost it's still more than 8000 gold cheaper than Transitional Heraldic Armour. This is a good case of medium armour becoming far more effective yet staying cost efficient. And, as OP said, these numbers are just placeholders.
The 1h+shield example was also flawed. A "simple sidesword" is the best and most expensive 1h in the game. "Your shield," apparently a steel shield (as even a masterwork huscarl would only come out to a little over 8k), is also the most expensive gear available to a 1h. Even taking that into account, I've already reviewed why a MSS would be exceptionally valuable even for its price.
All in all I think OP has a good point. It needs to be balanced, sure, but it's a solid idea. A friend suggested to me that there should be 3 armour-heirloom slots, that are free, but the fourth starts to cost extra gold. Weapons, on the other hand, should start to cost extra from the first heirloom. I'm not a developer so I can't give a very informed opinion on price, but perhaps the additional price should only apply to the highest tier gear? For your consideration.
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Remove half of current heirlooms, and furture retirement with bonus at level 32?
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Remove half of current heirlooms, and furture retirement with bonus at level 32?
NO!
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Take a look at this:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3959.msg71820.html#msg71820 (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3959.msg71820.html#msg71820)
What do you think?
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I'm gen 6 with 4 heirlooms, instead of 6, due to the last theft. It's pretty damn tough getting heirlooms now unless your Gen 12+, so it'd be pretty crappy to steal them from the guys who aren't abusing the system with a new Master Work item every week.
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Kophka, that is why I am posting my suggestion. My previous post ;)
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IMO with these changes, all heirlooms should be removed. And for every 3 heirlooms removed, give the player 1 gen.
Ie. Gen 18 with 10 heirlooms gets +3 gen so now he is at gen 21.
With an heirloom cap at 15-20.
Gen+H/3 can vary.
Edit: gen 1-5 every heirloom
6-10 every 2 heirlooms
11+ every 3
But not quite sure Why this is being discussed since chadz already said there is no theft coming.
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Guys... believe it or not, I have enough heirlooms. I dont want to loose them.
I think you miss the point. We had a big patch and the bandit Fasader. Why?
1. They wanted to make retirement much harder.
2. They wanted to make heirloomed items rare and special.
You can check chadz messages. So... imho they did not succeed. With high gen char retirement is easy and there are a lot of heirloomed items out there.
So there are now again discussions about stealing heirloomed items.
I want to avoid that and suggested something different.
The system will change... whether you like it or not.
stealing loom is not a solution is a dumb temporeanan remedial.
nothing else.
you remove from me 2/3 of loom ? fine in 2 week i remake them. just go give you an example while all others cant replace theyr loom so fast. indirectly, you bost high gen player even more
IMO with these changes, all heirlooms should be removed. And for every 3 heirlooms removed, give the player 1 gen.
Ie. Gen 18 with 10 heirlooms gets +3 gen so now he is at gen 21.
With an heirloom cap at 15-20.
Gen+H/3 can vary.
Edit: gen 1-5 every heirloom
6-10 every 2 heirlooms
11+ every 3
But not quite sure Why this is being discussed since chadz already said there is no theft coming.
with that idea i go gen 40 :O and gonna make 1x loom /day
if you not realize gen 40 at x1 is 4900 xp at x5 is 24500 xp / min
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You're still gonna have to work for it.believe it or not not all players are gen 30+ and play crpg 10 hours a day.
I think about 5% of the crpg players are gen 30+
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But not quite sure Why this is being discussed since chadz already said there is no theft coming.
You are right... i checked chadz messages. I started the thread between
Heirloom theft...
Didn't think of that, but it could solve quite some problems.
Thanks for the suggestion (Also please post suggestions in the suggestion forum in the future).
and
This thread is beyond sillyness.
No heirloom theft planned.
Ok, good, no theft.
But imho limiting the use of heirlooms would be still a good idea for balancing.
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Put a cap of 9 heirlooms per player. Reset heirlooms and allow people to rechoose them. Then people without many heirlooms aren't effected and those with too many can pick the ones they want to keep. It sounds like weapons are being changed pretty significantly so this would be the most fair way to do it.
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Put a cap of 9 heirlooms per player. Reset heirlooms and allow people to rechoose them. Then people without many heirlooms aren't effected and those with too many can pick the ones they want to keep. It sounds like weapons are being changed pretty significantly so this would be the most fair way to do it.
That is a very good idea.
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The solution to limit heirlooms is actually very simple. Let people have over 9000 heirlooms if they want, but make it so you can only equip 2 (or maybe 3) heirloomed items simultaneously.
This way the gen30 guy who has 20+ heirlooms has many choices, but can only equip the same number of heirlooms as the average low gen guy. No more people in full heirloomed armor sets + weapons, etc.
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Smells like it's hypocrisy, this constant concern for new players ...
This is urban legend...
It's an illusion...
More players leaving than coming, just watching the turnout at the servers (and compare with what it was three months earlier).
And still the same nicks ...
Added to this is the direction set by the chadzteamexpertsbalance goes on, which depend on continuous nerfing-idea fix (as if it had anything to do with game-balance, lol...), which (irony of fate) impede entry into the game to new players.
Currently, native becomes the easy mode for new players.
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And what about our generation, will they be reset or will our gen stay the same ?
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Just limit the xp gain of who retired 15 times before the patch so they will not get a 1000% xp increase in some weeks (with all weapons and armours heirloomed). Or just cap the xp increase bonus to 100% 150% or something.