cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Jarlek on September 16, 2012, 03:32:39 pm

Title: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Jarlek on September 16, 2012, 03:32:39 pm
-snip-
10) looting system has been changed. no more randomness. at the end of a battle, the winner receives all of the goods of the loser. the items that were used receive a penalty of -2 to it's loom level and are distributed 25% to the loser, 50% to the winner.
11) retreating is actually surrendering, all rules of #10 come into effect
I say this is a good change and makes winning/losing a battle much more fair. It now makes it irrelevant how long the battle lasted (except how much equipment is left to get the percentage off) or which side won (defender and attacker doesn't matter).

But, there are certain situations where retreating shouldn't be a "I give up". There should be an option to do a tactical retreat where you just move a bit back to regroup or something. Maybe if it's a siege and you run out of ladders and the c-site/materials has bugged out.

This is why I think we should have an additional "retreat" option, something I've been thinking of for a while. Some sort of tactical retreat where you must sort of reorganize a tactical retreat. It should be kind of difficult to do, but with organization and good playing, it should be a valid tactic to safely leave the battlefield.

This is what the options could be:
Flee: what we currently have now, where your flags just goes down and you lose the battle after your last guys on the battlefield dies. Pretty much giving up. You are losing, you know it, and there's really no longer a need to continue fighting.

Retreat: All your flags goes down like it normally would. In addition, a big flag, like the Master of the Fields flag or the Siege Flag spawns at or near the retreating army's spawn. The retreating army then have to get this flag up. This will be difficult since they don't have any respawns, while the other side still do. As with the normal MotF and siege flag, it doesn't move up or down if there's anyone from both sides inside the are of influence, so as long as the non-retreating army (the ones that can still respawn) have someone close (aka overrunning their retreat) the retreaters wont be able to get the flag up and slowly lose all their players (since they don't respawn). It will be hard to do a tactical retreat (depending on the map of course), but for an army that has the fighting advantage but no way to win (e.g. a sieging army with good equipment that ran out of ladders), should have little trouble doing a tactical retreat.

If they succeed, they manage to safely retreat and get to keep all or most of their equipment and troops. Maybe a small penalty to represent desertion due to low moral (because of the loss) or something.
If they don't manage to get the flag down and all their guys dies, then it should be a normal or harsher loss. They failed at organizing a retreat and the army routs worse than it normally would.


The speed of how the flag goes up would have to be carefully adjusted of course. It shouldn't be too easy to do this tactical retreat. This obviously needs tweaking, but there still should be a way to fall back without getting a full loss. What do you think about it?

EDIT:
A bit down, I posted this:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Miwiw on September 16, 2012, 03:39:31 pm
Sounds nice.

Fleeing gives 25% to the losers, 50% to the winners.

Successful retreat gives all or with a penalty, like a loss of 25% to the defender. A not successful retreat gives most to the defender as they stopped the attacker from a successful retreat (lets say 60% goes to the defender and about 10-20% to the attacker).

I like the general idea, how that is solved can be discussed. :)
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Taser on September 16, 2012, 09:37:20 pm
I like it for sure. Would be interesting.
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Jarlek on September 17, 2012, 12:10:15 am
Just thought of something.


This could be aboozed by defenders I think. They could do a tactical retreat in almost the beginning and then escape an attacker, making taking over a fief very hard since the flag is in the defender spawn..

EDIT: As I was writing here, I also thought it could be aboozed by the attacking side too. Let's say a big army comes and you send out a small, but well equipped army to delay them (so reinforcements can be sent). You could then attack them and lock them down for 2h hours, retreat in the beginning, then reattack again. Do this until you fail a retreat. This could delay an attack for days.

Not sure how to quite fix these issues, but what about these suggestions:

"Retreat Time":

Defending in the Field.

Defending a Fief:

Attacking a fief:

Attacking on the field:

While Raiding:
Retreating is disabled while raiding. Raids should be all out attacks for attackers and a surprise attack for the defenders. The Surrender option should still be available ofc.

*While they could have 2 armies doing hit and run tactics on an invader, that would take lots of organizing, micromanaging, logistics and resources. Being able to do that should not be penalized, but applauded.
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: IR_Kuoin on September 17, 2012, 01:29:07 am
Litt mye fritid  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Jarlek on September 17, 2012, 01:38:01 am
Litt mye fritid  :mrgreen:
Brukte totalt 5 minutter på å skrive dette. Problem?
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: IR_Kuoin on September 17, 2012, 10:30:07 am
Brukte totalt 5 minutter på å skrive dette. Problem?

IMPOSSIBLE!
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 17, 2012, 07:00:21 pm
That was one thing I never liked when attacking a castle/city.  You should have the option to stop attacking (versus "retreating").  Just because we stop our attack (due to running out of ladders or whatever) doesn't mean we're abandoning our siege camp and letting you sally out and come take it...if an attacker retreats from a siege they should keep 100% of everything they have left.  The only way the defenders should be able to keep the attackers gear is if they were to sally out (in game) and take over the attackers spawn point.
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Jarlek on September 21, 2012, 03:11:11 pm
Nobody have anything more to say?
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Jarlek on October 08, 2012, 08:59:36 pm
Bump?
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: PhantomZero on October 08, 2012, 10:20:54 pm
The only real problem I can see is trying to determine who retreats with the troops/equipment and such when retreating from a village defense. Do the troops magically appear in the Lord's army even if he on the other side of the world? Possibly, but kind of weird.

They could show up in nearby villages of the same faction, but what if you only have one left?

Really trying to retreat as the defender of a castle/town or village should just be impossible for simplicities sake. Even if there are historical cases of the defenders being allowed to leave with their lives.
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Jarlek on October 09, 2012, 01:02:21 am
(click to show/hide)
Good points. Didn't think of that.

Guess the best thing would be to just disable retreating for defenders of a fief. Makes sense too, that you would have a hard time breaking through the siege anyway.

Although: what about making it so those troops are lost, BUT they manage to take the equipment with you? The troops and equipment are lost to the defenders even if they manage to break out, but you can still try to do that so the enemy doesn't get the stuff in the village. Better to let nobody get your equipment than your enemy, right? Seems like a good idea? Yes/no?
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Haboe on October 09, 2012, 01:38:45 am
If its surrendering one shouldn't call it retreating.

I have seen certain battles in which 250 material was preserved when it was known they would retreat in the end. Bit of a waste if ppl still think retreating is actual retreating.

Don't say you give someone a dragon when you actually mean to give him a dead salamander.


Give it the name "surrender", or use this suggestion.
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: PhantomZero on October 09, 2012, 02:16:14 am
Good points. Didn't think of that.

Guess the best thing would be to just disable retreating for defenders of a fief. Makes sense too, that you would have a hard time breaking through the siege anyway.

Although: what about making it so those troops are lost, BUT they manage to take the equipment with you? The troops and equipment are lost to the defenders even if they manage to break out, but you can still try to do that so the enemy doesn't get the stuff in the village. Better to let nobody get your equipment than your enemy, right? Seems like a good idea? Yes/no?

You still run into the problem of who gets the equipment, you could rather than retreat have a "Raze" option, that would kill the remaining population and destroy equipment (including stuff lost already on the battlefield not just remaining in inventory), but would take some time.

It could also prevent people from messing with the PP of a village. Like if a faction attacks a village and then immediately uses the PP to heirloom practice daggers or something. It would give some time to allow for a counter attack before PP could be touched again, while villages trading hands back and forth would become stagnant as their PP would not be allowed to be spent.
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Jarlek on October 09, 2012, 01:22:12 pm
You still run into the problem of who gets the equipment, you could rather than retreat have a "Raze" option, that would kill the remaining population and destroy equipment (including stuff lost already on the battlefield not just remaining in inventory), but would take some time.

It could also prevent people from messing with the PP of a village. Like if a faction attacks a village and then immediately uses the PP to heirloom practice daggers or something. It would give some time to allow for a counter attack before PP could be touched again, while villages trading hands back and forth would become stagnant as their PP would not be allowed to be spent.
Sorry if it wasn't clear in my post, but I did say that the equipment in the village (on a succesfull retreat) is lost for everyone. Better for no-one to get your equipment than your enemy, right?

But I like Raze. Scorched Earth tactic is best tactic :D
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 09, 2012, 05:54:40 pm
We retreated from a siege of a castle the other night and the retreating army had 600+ troops left, after the retreat they had 0.    They kept a lot of equipment still, but lost 100% of the troops...

They should still keep some troops and some equipment, but obviously some people are going to desert, and some equipment may be left behind.

But if we're camping outside a castle in our siege camp, and we up and decide to leave...we're not surrendering to the enemy...we're simply walking away from where the siege camp was.
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Jarlek on November 20, 2012, 04:37:08 pm
Bump?
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on February 25, 2013, 06:47:26 pm
If attacker can retreat with the possibility of no losses.....then they can retreat in agreement that the defenders will vacate the Fief. Leave it to the players work this out.....or be treacherous...and sally forth with a nearby ally.....muahahaaaa. or even perhaps some last of the mohicans, huron scalping!
Title: Re: [STRAT] Retreating and fleeing.
Post by: Sparvico on April 20, 2013, 08:46:30 am
bump.