cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: WhiteAndMilky on September 02, 2012, 10:34:11 am

Title: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: WhiteAndMilky on September 02, 2012, 10:34:11 am

Hello, I am making an archer alt. My priority is accuracy. I'd like to be able to just outrun medium armored enemies. I play as a pikeman normally, so I am very aware of my surroundings and the enemies placement at any given time. I will most likely wear rags or very light armor. I may carry a base level knockdown item that fills 1/4 slot, but it would really just be for escape, or to stall until teammates can help me, not to do any kind of damage.

I would really appreciate any build advice. I haven't played an archer yet besides native. Thanks and see you out there!

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: FleetFox on September 02, 2012, 11:27:31 am

Hey, I suggest you check out Marathon's stickied thread called Solid Builds. It has some very good archer builds on there. However imo if you want accuracy then go for the 18/21 build, this means you can use the higher tier bows and at the same time have decent accuracy ^^ Hope this helps!

FleetFox

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: Riddaren on September 02, 2012, 12:34:29 pm

I would suggest either of the following for you:

Level 30 18/21 53hp 3PS 6PD 7AT 7WM - Rus/long bow / 0 slot weapon
Level 30 15/21 60hp 5PS 5PD 7AT 7WM 5IF - Horn bow / 1 slot weapon
Level 30 21/15 66hp 7PS 7PD 5AT 5WM 5IF - Horn bow / 1 slot weapon

If you are good in melee you will probably have most fun with second or third build.
Use the 2H mace (1 slot) and bodkin arrows.

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: WhiteAndMilky on September 03, 2012, 02:19:56 am

Thanks guys!

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: Cup1d on September 03, 2012, 04:16:19 pm

Quote from: Riddaren on September 02, 2012, 12:34:29 pm

Level 30 21/15 66hp 7PS 7PD 5AT 5WM 5IF - Horn bow / 1 slot weapon

Good luck with 42 effective wpf in archery.

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: Cepeshi on September 03, 2012, 04:20:03 pm

i went for hybrid 18/18 so i could have some melee capabilities, so far on lvl 16 or so its lot of fun and if i HS i am able to kill stuff even with 5PD currently, gonna go for 6 PD,WM, ATH, PS and some IF too :)

Was tempted to go for 18/21 with no leftover points on melee.

Strength: 18
Agility: 21
Hit points: 59
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 3
Power Strike: 0
Shield: 0
Athletics: 7
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 6
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 7

archery 150 +-

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: Riddaren on September 03, 2012, 11:24:43 pm

Quote from: Cup1d on September 03, 2012, 04:16:19 pm

Good luck with 42 effective wpf in archery.

No way you just have 42 wpf with clothes, horn bow, bodkins and mace with maxed out wpf at 5wm.

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 03, 2012, 11:31:14 pm

Quote from: Riddaren on September 03, 2012, 11:24:43 pm

No way you just have 42 wpf with clothes, horn bow, bodkins and mace with maxed out wpf at 5wm.

Every point in PD lowers your effective WPF by 14 points...

STR builds are practically useless in this game build, I highly recommend going 18/21 with a longbow/rus, or 15/24 with a hornbow and headshots.

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2012, 05:58:47 am

Quote from: Tears of Destiny on September 03, 2012, 11:31:14 pm

Every point in PD lowers your effective WPF by 14 points...

STR builds are practically useless in this game build, I highly recommend going 18/21 with a longbow/rus, or 15/24 with a hornbow and headshots.

Dafuq is that? When they changed it? I always thought you need 14 wpf per PD not to get the "profficiency too low", but then i was on 3months break, so dunno what happened for archers as i really never cared. But as i have a pussyalt now, i demand more informations! So, if you would mind, elaborate on this.

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 04, 2012, 10:33:54 am

Quote from: Cepeshi on September 04, 2012, 05:58:47 am

Dafuq is that? When they changed it? I always thought you need 14 wpf per PD not to get the "profficiency too low", but then i was on 3months break, so dunno what happened for archers as i really never cared. But as i have a pussyalt now, i demand more informations! So, if you would mind, elaborate on this.

It is a pretty old change, as old as the "need 14wpf per PD" just it took a while for people to figure out why you needed 14 wpf per PD.

Both the Weapon Damage Calculator (http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm) and the cRPG new generation calculator of Character builder & Archer damage calculator (http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB/) demonstrate this.

Damage tests ran by Shik and Marathon prove that PD builds only outdamage wpf builds at super close range:

(click to show/hide)

Quote from: Marathon on August 27, 2012, 06:06:17 am

I'm going to say right now, there are some good points in this thread but a whole lot of awful ones.
I hope you understand the way the player base works as min-maxing have-to-have-best-build players. Thus the best way to have people stop being kiting archers is...

THEY WAY TO FIX KITING ARCHERS IS MAKE STRENGTH BUILD ARCHERY BETTER THAN AGI KITING ARCHERY AT KILLIN' THEM DUDES.
 Currently, strength archery has 0 zero benefits over agility stacking 6 PD archery. But, what about the damage? surely strength archery does tons more currently?! It doesn't. Shik and I did some archery testing and damage comparisons between his 30/15 10 PD archer and my 18/27 Agi archer. He only does more damage than me at distances less than 20 M, and he only does barely more damage.
I'll say that again. His 10 PD longbow barely out damages my 6 PD longbow at close range, but at 20M + distance our damage is equivalent. You wouldn't know which one of us hit you if we didn't tell you.

(click to show/hide)

I do believe it is the modified air friction values making his damage drop off so quickly. Which is dumb.

Okay, so Strength archery is... equivalent damage at pretty much all ranges archers shoot from.
Except he Is slower. He is inaccurate (horribly inaccurate). His bow draws slower. He is worse at everything involving archery compared to my build.
In fact, the ONLY benefit his 10 PD build has is that he has a few more hitpoints from his strength!
Garbage. I would never do  an archer over 6 PD under any circumstance under this system. OF COURSE everyone is a kiting agility archer. Seriously guys, looking at the situation all wrong :). The solution is to encourage people to not be kiting awfuls, not by heavily nerfing them, but by making something other than it viable.


I believe the solution to this is a minor nerf in damage for agility archers ( ME. I WANT TO NERF ME.) but keep the super accuracy agility archers have.
The next part is to buff the damage output of strength archers to where they should be in damage. A 10 PD longbow should be an inaccurate but high damaging cannon. Not an inaccurate same-damage-as-me.

(click to show/hide)

This could possibly be done by a decrease in base damage of the top half of the bow list (you can't nerf the base damage of anything under nomad. They already glance...), but an increase to the damage increase from power draw.

Fix.

Title: Re: Help with making my first archer?
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2012, 11:29:18 pm

Thanks, totally worth the read and now i need to respec yet again ffs  :mrgreen: