cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Spook Island on August 28, 2012, 05:00:04 am

Title: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Spook Island on August 28, 2012, 05:00:04 am
It got fixed for a short a long time ago  while when it balanced every round, but now it appears more broken than ever.

It definitely doesn't account for banner stacking very well at all.

EDIT:
Just an example I dug up out of my screenshots

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Weewum on August 28, 2012, 05:01:11 am
I feel bad giving this man a +1 but I must.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Micah on August 28, 2012, 01:47:37 pm
is there any suggested,alternative balancing algorithm ? if not , i consider this a QQ thread...
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Vibe on August 28, 2012, 02:03:26 pm
Bow = kick
Crossbow = kick
Horse = kick
Bow/Crossbow + Horse = 10 day ban
STR crutch = kick

everything is balanced
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Spook Island on August 28, 2012, 02:15:54 pm
Quote from: Micah on August 28, 2012, 01:47:37 pm
is there any suggested,alternative balancing algorithm ? if not , i consider this a QQ thread...

No need to get so completely defensive about it.  It just doesn't work.

Calling it autostacker would be a more appropriate name than Autobalance.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: dodnet on August 28, 2012, 02:33:10 pm
Quote from: Vibe on August 28, 2012, 02:03:26 pm
Bow = kick
Crossbow = kick
Horse = kick
Bow/Crossbow + Horse = 10 day ban
STR crutch = kick

everything is balanced

Will be 2vs2 server then...
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: sF_Guardian on August 28, 2012, 02:35:03 pm
WOrks as intended I guess and works fine IMO.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Spook Island on August 28, 2012, 02:38:44 pm
It doesn't know how to compensate for banner balance and it loves stacking all cavalry on one team I've noticed.  Id say it's about 50/50 for hit or miss.    I've got a few pictures of ridiculous team balance I could post, but most people realize it's unbalanced to say the least.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Spook Island on August 28, 2012, 02:48:27 pm
This is Autobalance

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: dodnet on August 28, 2012, 03:34:59 pm
Quote from: Spook Island on August 28, 2012, 02:48:27 pm
This is Autobalance

(click to show/hide)

Bad example... the smaller team even has more wins than the larger. If you look at the total score, these teams seems pretty balanced.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Spook Island on August 28, 2012, 03:43:24 pm
Quote from: dodnet on August 28, 2012, 03:34:59 pm
Bad example... the smaller team even has more wins than the larger. If you look at the total score, these teams seems pretty balanced.

Teams should NEVER be that lopsided in numbers

You can't just stack all the elites on one team and stack all the peasants on the other. 
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Zanze on August 29, 2012, 01:29:13 am
Except in that crazy case where one team has all the armor using players and the other has the leather using ones.

Banner balance is fine, it stacked 6 versus 38 one time the site went down. Reason? 6 in full plate versus about 34 naked, weaponless men and 4 fully armed people trying to supply the rest of the team with weapons. Just so you know, the full plate won every single round.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Spook Island on August 29, 2012, 01:53:28 am
Quote from: Zanze on August 29, 2012, 01:29:13 am
Except in that crazy case where one team has all the armor using players and the other has the leather using ones.

Banner balance is fine, it stacked 6 versus 38 one time the site went down. Reason? 6 in full plate versus about 34 naked, weaponless men and 4 fully armed people trying to supply the rest of the team with weapons. Just so you know, the full plate won every single round.

Winning every single round because one team had all the good players is not balanced.
I really don't understand how someone can legitimately say something like that is fine.   Even when they try to explain it an end up contradicting the entire point they are trying to make.

I will reiterate.

Teams should NEVER be that lopsided.
Autobalance should not be stacking the teams round after round.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Havoco on August 29, 2012, 02:11:18 am
How about having x amount of a banner on one team, increasing by y of the total server population?
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Zanze on August 29, 2012, 04:25:04 am
So what you are suggesting right now is that the team in full plate should have received more players from the naked-man horde?

Skill is not factored into balanced, level and armor is. A good amount of those naked players were skilled, they simply lacked the equipment to fight. In my original post I claimed the cause of the victory of the 6 was equipment, not skill. Learn to read. You have no point by marking red pieces of my post that may be twisted to help your case.


Bottom line, you're still an attention whoring idiot.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Spook Island on August 29, 2012, 04:42:41 am
Quote from: Zanze on August 29, 2012, 04:25:04 am
So what you are suggesting right now is that the team in full plate should have received more players from the naked-man horde?

Skill is not factored into balanced, level and armor is. A good amount of those naked players were skilled, they simply lacked the equipment to fight. In my original post I claimed the cause of the victory of the 6 was equipment, not skill. Learn to read. You have no point by marking red pieces of my post that may be twisted to help your case.


Bottom line, you're still an attention whoring idiot.

I'm suggesting that instead of one team full of plate and one team full of peasants, we have both teams having an equal balance of plate and peasants. 
Nobody twisted your words.  I simply highlighted them because they were an obvious contradiction to what you were trying to say.
Also, If you can't make a point without resorting to insults, it's a pretty good indicator that you don't have a decent argument in the first place.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on August 29, 2012, 05:53:28 am
Another fabulous discussion started by Matthew von Shitpost.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Gurnisson on August 29, 2012, 06:58:33 am
Working as intended. Move on, nothing to see here. :lol:
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: missalot on August 30, 2012, 02:00:26 pm
Well I'm rather a noob (lvl 30 on my gen2), and noobs aren't very influential on game balance decision, and on the forum in general. This explains why c-rpg is heavily over-favoring the most experienced players :

- they've got super loomed gear
- they can pay for whatever upkeep (heavy cav at x1 multi is very costly)
- they level faster (higher gen)
- and they benefit from the banner balance, because most of them are members of a clan.


It's logical that experienced players are more likely to win, but it should be only because of their skill and teamplay. Having so many factors artificially re-inforcing their advantage is a game killer for the newcomers.

These last days The Greys are meeting on EU2 siege server. When you've got 15 Greys 2H monsters in one team, there is no way the other team can win. And of course they get valour (oh yeah, it was supposed to help skilled newbies on the losing side, quite the contrary in fact) ... I stopped playing EU siege at all until they move to another server, because this no fun at all. If you are lucky, you get 'balanced' in their team, and win w/o even playing.

I don't see the point of banner balance at all. Factions were mainly for strategus, what's the point of making the normal c-rpg server the playground of the happy-few ? On the other side, on strategus you never play against those of your clan, so normal servers would be a good occasion to confront your mates, no ?

TL;DR : kill banner balance, give noobs a little hope not to get crushed

Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: rustyspoon on August 30, 2012, 02:33:48 pm
Quote from: missalot on August 30, 2012, 02:00:26 pm
I don't see the point of banner balance at all. Factions were mainly for strategus, what's the point of making the normal c-rpg server the playground of the happy-few ? On the other side, on strategus you never play against those of your clan, so normal servers would be a good occasion to confront your mates, no ?

I've been arguing this point for a long, long time. It will never happen though 'cause most of the people in clans will cry a river. Their excuse is always, "I want to play with my friends" when in actuality they just want to farm multis. I always thought if more than 3 clanners joined a server they should be split 50/50 across the teams, but it will never happen.
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 30, 2012, 03:53:16 pm
Just said this in another thread, we do need a better balancing system...

Banner balance should be taken into account whenever possible, but the most important variables should be relatively balanced teams by class and who the best players are.  The real dominant kill whores should be balanced out, classes should be relatively balanced (not 100% necessarily), and then try to put the people with the same banner on the same team.

Banner balance is weighted way too heavily at the moment.  These are public servers after all, not scrimmages or matches, but exhibition. 
Title: Re: Make Autobalance actually balance the teams
Post by: Joker86 on August 30, 2012, 04:03:37 pm
While we do agree that a fairer balance and a better balancer code is needed, I think it's the wrong time for it, as the conditions for a well working balancer are not met.

I mean the multiplier system, which requires you to win a few rounds in a row. If we kept the multiplier system and had perfect balance, everyone would be crawling on an average multiplier of 1.5 (won a round, lost a round, won a round...). The current system is basing on the system of being balanced into good or bad teams. One map you get steamrolled and receive an archer-bukkake (all archers being around you, shooting your face), on another map it's you who steamrolls the enemy a few times in a row. It's a lame system, and I told the devs since the announcement of upkeep and multiplier systems that it's a horrible idea to make you personal success/progress dependant on your team, as those usually consist of people who are in retard mode (I don't say retards, they are not, they are just not using their brain), but it was waved aside as whining and that the devs know what they are doing...

As soon as the multiplier system gets changed, I will be the first one to support the request for a working autobalancer. But for now, we have to wait until the already announced income change gets implemented.  :rolleyes: