cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: 22nd_deprav on August 08, 2012, 08:49:19 pm

Title: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: 22nd_deprav on August 08, 2012, 08:49:19 pm
Yo friends !

First of all, I'm not really a "market guy"... my only interaction with it was trying to trade Mr_Fasole's MW javelins for him. And that's a shame ! I'd like to take part in the market and pay for some stuffs I want!

But here's the (my) issue > I'll never get enough money to buy 1 loom point. I've around 80k-100k gold, plus an equipement worth around 200k I think (I haz a shitload of stuffs) and a +2 nordic champion sword (that's the only loomed item I have).

I'll never get 500k or 600k, people who do not take part in the retiring game and just want to make a solid build -or don't have time to make their char again and again- are kind of excluded from the market because of the ridiculous evaluation of the loom point (or devaluation of the money ?).
What I'm trying to point out here is that there's no "natural value", only human mind fixes value.

I'm not trying to say people should gief their loom points for a bag of chips, but to bring the prices to a reasonnable and accessible level for people who don't race throught generations.
If we use the power of logic, the price of a loom point should approximatively be around the amount of gold you earn during a generation ; since that's kind of the only way to measure the "price of the time" you spent (or wasted, video games are wrong !) playing crpg. (and I don't think that's around 500k, maybe 100 or 150k, but I never really paid attention to it)

So yeah you wouldn't count in millions anymore, but it would be easier for sellers to find buyers, and it would be POSSIBLE for buyers to buy what they're looking for with a reasonnable period of gold grinding : the market wouldn't be a private club for wealthy crpg players and loom grinders anymore ;p

I might be completely wrong, but I think that kind of make sense.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: [ptx] on August 08, 2012, 08:50:57 pm
Not going to happen, market balances itself.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Micah on August 08, 2012, 08:58:30 pm
Not going to happen, market balances itself.
^this

Spare your effort my friend, youre not the first nor will you be the last to address this point and yet nothing will change. And its also not the worst thing that it wont ^^
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Penitent on August 08, 2012, 08:59:56 pm
The only way to get 500-600k is to sell a loom point.  Then you can buy a different +1 item for like 380k, and you made like 150k profit.

Then you do it again the next time you retire.  300k.
Then you sell the item you bought for 380k to someone else for 450k...now you're up to 370k.  THen retire again and sell a loom point for 520k.  Now you have 820k.  You can buy a +2, and possibly try to sell that higher....or wait till you retire again, sell loom point again, and buy a +3.

That's just one possible scenario.  But yeah, the only way to get lots of monies is to sell a loom point, or play for a long long long time.
I did it by playing the market back when it was new (a lot more active, no tax on transactions) and made lots of monies.  I'm gen7 but have like 10 gens worth of looms.  Didn't come easy or fast!  Bought low, sold high, made some deals on the side.

I think it's really hard to do that nowadays because the market moves so slow and because of the tax, but not impossible!

The tax made inflation stop (and somewhat reverse) but it made it harder for the little guys to make money.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: 22nd_deprav on August 08, 2012, 09:11:29 pm
I get what you mean PTX, but market can't balance itself alone, I won't make an essay on evolution again here, but a "living" system is changed and fixed by the things (people) who make it up.

If someone fixes the price for a thing at -lets say- 500k, people following will think "and why the hell should I get less money than him for the same thing, I'll fix the same price! oh wait, 10k less for the commercial aspect." It's a chain reaction again, and If it starts in the wrong way, it continues in the wrong way unless someone/something "regulates" it to make it accessible to the largest part and not only to the people fixing it.

I dunno how that's called but I'm pretty sure there's a fancy word from the economic sphere to describe that, some kind of speculation but on the same "commodity".
That's what enlarges the gape between different "classes" of people. People who've been retiring for a long time are the guys with shitload of gold, means they are the guys who can be active in the market and fix prices regarding their own amount of gold.

As Garison said it will get harder and harder for the "little guys" to have access to this kind of equipement, or people who play casualy. Everyone isn't a hardcore gamer around here ;p
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 08, 2012, 09:17:15 pm
The reason looms sell for 450-500k (now, used to be higher before tax came about), is because people are willing to pay that much for them.  It's supply and demand.

If I have something, and sell it at a price of 450 units, if someone is willing to pay that much, than that's how much the item is worth.  If someone's only willing to pay 400 units, than that's how much the item is worth...

Some people play in very minimal equipment, so they make a ton of money playing the game.  I lose about 50k every 8 million experience because my gear is too high to sustain itself.  So using your logic, loom points should be given away and the seller should also throw in 50,000 gold to make up for what I've lost that gen
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Lichen on August 08, 2012, 09:20:41 pm
Another 'please make things easy for me' topic? Nice.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: 22nd_deprav on August 08, 2012, 09:26:16 pm
The reason looms sell for 450-500k (now, used to be higher before tax came about), is because people are willing to pay that much for them.  It's supply and demand.

If I have something, and sell it at a price of 450 units, if someone is willing to pay that much, than that's how much the item is worth.  If someone's only willing to pay 400 units, than that's how much the item is worth...

But everyone would be willing to pay that if they could. The issue isn't willing it or not, the issue is being able to.
Of course I'd like to pay 450k for a loom point, but I -and I'm guessing, a lot of other players- don't have the possibility to pay that much gold, nor the time to play that much time to retire and accumulate generations.

That's what I'm pointing out, loom points can only circulate through the same hands/people.

_______________________________

"Another 'please make things easy for me' topic? Nice."

It's not really for me, I take myself as an exemple cause I know my ressources and that's easier to argue with concrete numbers.
I'm level 34 and my build's awesome, I don't really mind about looms and shit, and I could probably spend enough time retiring an alt and make a +3 sword, that would be all I'd like.

It's more for newcomers who'll get pwnd hard without any way to get real equipement but spending their nights grinding.
cRPG is an awesome mod, it should be fun for everyone, not only for the people who've been playing for ages.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Penitent on August 08, 2012, 09:27:38 pm
I think someone calculated that the gold earned for playing 1 gen is like 350k (not including upkeep...just the raw "value" of 1 gen).  Loom points started out going for around that amount, and slowly climbed up over months and months to a max of like 650k.  I took a break from playing then and was like "oh cool when I return to the game in like 3 months, I can sell my loom point for like 800k!"  I returned to find them back down in the 500-550k range. :(

Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 08, 2012, 09:29:18 pm
I would like a ferrari, but at 300,000 dollars I can't afford it. I think most people can't either. That is why I write ferrari a letter every week telling them that they should be 10,000-30,000 dollars because that is what most people have to spend on a car. I might be completely wrong, but I think that kind of make sense.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Penitent on August 08, 2012, 09:32:00 pm
Quote
But everyone would be willing to pay that if they could. The issue isn't willing it or not, the issue is being able to.
Of course I'd like to pay 450k for a loom point, but I -and I'm guessing, a lot of other players- don't have the possibility to pay that much gold, nor the time to play that much time to retire and accumulate generations.


Hmm, I think you are confusing the purpose of the market then.  If you have gold - buy loom points.  If you don't have gold - sell loom points.

Buying loom points pretty much only for high-gen players, lotto winners, market-playas, and other rich ppl with disposable income.  It's a waste of gold, honestly, but you get a loom fast.

Selling loom points is for the average joe, the guy that needs gold, or low gen players.  Once you sell enough loom points and get high gen, you are a richie rich and belong in the 1st category pretty much.

If you've chosen to stop retiring (I think I just retired for the last time too) then you are kind of taking yourself out of the market.  The gold and looms you have now are all you have to offer in the marketplace.  You will probably not be grinding hundrends of thousands of golds or aquiring new looms....unless you do so on an alt.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 08, 2012, 09:32:57 pm
Also, the amount of gold you make in a gen has no correlation to what looms should cost, because you do not make 350k when you retire, you make 350k + A LOOM POINT. I do not see understand why a loompoint has to be worth the same as the amount of money you make in a gen (- upkeep). That is like if you worked in a restaurant and got payed 4 dollars an hour, that your tips also have to be 4 dollars an hour.

Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: chadz on August 08, 2012, 09:35:12 pm
The market is a game of it's own. No way we'll interfere with or regulate that (other than trying to create some gold sinks). You can play cRPG perfectly OK without joining the market.

Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Eddy on August 08, 2012, 09:47:38 pm
Also its realy easy to earn money, i make 200k in 5 days when i play in low equip armor.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: 22nd_deprav on August 08, 2012, 09:49:34 pm
Yes I'm already playing it perfectly ok without the market :3


But I'm fackin pro, noobs need heirloomed items or they'll just get 1 hitted and be disgusted quickly when they realize the amount of time they'll have to play to get something decent. And I want noobs to be pleased or we'll just see the same oldfaegz again and again (not that I don't like you all), but a game that discourages the newcomers is condamned to die at some points.


Also Oprah your analogy with ferrari is biased, ferrari cars are luxury, loom points are becoming some kind of primary ressource for the futur players.

Maybe I don't haz enough faith in newcomers, maybe they haz more courage than I think xD
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: sF_Guardian on August 08, 2012, 09:49:44 pm
Occupy donkeystreet!
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Rumblood on August 08, 2012, 09:51:32 pm
I thought this was going to be some big write-up on how to better market c-rpg. I was misled and demand mob justice!  :evil:
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Paul on August 08, 2012, 09:56:42 pm
Not going to happen, market balances itself.

ib4 speculative bubble
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Latrinenkobold on August 08, 2012, 09:56:50 pm
Dunno whats your problem just win the lottery like me  :twisted:
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Penitent on August 08, 2012, 10:03:30 pm
Also its realy easy to earn money, i make 200k in 5 days when i play in low equip armor.

No you don't.
Even with ZERO upkeep you'd have to have a 5x for 13.3 hours to make 200k.

I'm sorry, we...we don't believe you. :)
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Miwiw on August 08, 2012, 10:05:33 pm
You can play cRPG perfectly OK without joining the market.

Sadly this is what many people do not get. Even without selling a loompoint it is possible first to farm some gold and then wear heavy gear and pay the upkeep without losing all the gold. :)

If you have a main char above level 31 and dont retire anymore, just create an alt... :P
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: BlackMilk on August 08, 2012, 10:22:03 pm
I think someone calculated that the gold earned for playing 1 gen is like 350k (not including upkeep...just the raw "value" of 1 gen).
148h and 12 minutes are needed to reach level 31 on gen 1 assuming that multi is approximately 1,8.
12+(148*60)=8892 minutes. 88892 minutes*50 gold/minute=444'600 gold.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 08, 2012, 10:23:57 pm
I seem to remember when I first started playing there was no marketplace...
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Penitent on August 08, 2012, 10:28:06 pm
148h and 12 minutes are needed to reach level 31 on gen 1 assuming that multi is approximately 1,8.
12+(148*60)=8892 minutes. 88892 minutes*50 gold/minute=444'600 gold.

Ah yes, this seems more accurate.  I think the 1st loom points were going for 450k, not 350k as I first thought.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Kafein on August 08, 2012, 10:29:56 pm
Not going to happen, market balances itself.

This obviously.

And also, giving any further advantages to level 30+ characters would simply be wrong. Being level 34 is much more powerful than having 6 loom points, no matter how many loom points you already have.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Leshma on August 08, 2012, 10:37:16 pm
Sell everything you have for gold, because when new XP and gold system kicks in prices are going down big time. Currently anyone can play as a peasant with a pitchfork and make 350k per gen. With new score system you won't get many points using that gear unless you're pro among pros. Noobs will get little to no gold compared to current system. Pros will earn gold but that will also mean they'll start using more expensive gear for even better results.

Less gold in circulation = lower prices

Currently I have almost 8 million gold and I'm trying to sell looms I have left for some decent prices but it's not going very well. I can probably sell them for roughly one million each but I'm still not sure will everything go according to my plans.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Kafein on August 08, 2012, 10:37:51 pm
I get what you mean PTX, but market can't balance itself alone, I won't make an essay on evolution again here, but a "living" system is changed and fixed by the things (people) who make it up.

If someone fixes the price for a thing at -lets say- 500k, people following will think "and why the hell should I get less money than him for the same thing, I'll fix the same price! oh wait, 10k less for the commercial aspect." It's a chain reaction again, and If it starts in the wrong way, it continues in the wrong way unless someone/something "regulates" it to make it accessible to the largest part and not only to the people fixing it.

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Actually the heirloom point market is almost a perfect market (except for the tax). All the products are exactly the same, everybody knows exactly what is sold. What happens is the seller puts his offer and the buyer will always buy the cheapest heirloom point. All sellers are fighting to get the deal and the only way to be better than others is to sell cheaper. The guy that puts an offer asking for more is only going to wait for a very long time. This is ECON-101 tbh.

Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: 22nd_deprav on August 08, 2012, 11:24:40 pm
Yes I know that but it seemed I just under-estimated the amount of gold earned in a generation.

Which make my whole point obsolete. So yeah, sorry about that. :|
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Kafein on August 08, 2012, 11:47:27 pm
Leshma shhh
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on August 09, 2012, 12:09:33 am
Theres no such thing as a 'natural value'. Things have the value people attach to them, no more, no less. And the value that people attach to one generation of grinding is roughly 600k ingame crpg gold.

It is funny how little facts of life are present in all things, even on a generated market on a computer game.  :)
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Kafein on August 09, 2012, 12:13:41 am
Theres no such thing as a 'natural value'. Things have the value people attach to them, no more, no less. And the value that people attach to one generation of grinding is roughly 600k ingame crpg gold.

It is funny how little facts of life are present in all things, even on a generated market on a computer game.  :)

That's not a fact of life, that's nearly a law of physics  :lol:
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on August 09, 2012, 12:19:47 am
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There you go. If you understand that, you will understand why this...
But everyone would be willing to pay that if they could. The issue isn't willing it or not, the issue is being able to.
Of course I'd like to pay 450k for a loom point, but I -and I'm guessing, a lot of other players- don't have the possibility to pay that much gold, nor the time to play that much time to retire and accumulate generations.

That's what I'm pointing out, loom points can only circulate through the same hands/people.

...makes no sense.

Here's a hint: Limited supply.
Another hint:
Quote
Of course I'd like to pay 450k for a loom point, but I -and I'm guessing, a lot of other players- don't have the possibility to pay that much gold, nor the time to play that much time to retire and accumulate generations.

One last hint: If everyone would have time to play enough to get their looms, the price for them would be ridiculously low. But the price remains high because ^^^^^

To make looms cheap, they would have to be in infinite supply, for example an NPC that sells them for a set price. Naturally, people who play the market can cause a bubble which inflates the prices.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: 22nd_deprav on August 09, 2012, 12:45:57 am
I don't think your graph applies for this : I think It implies the only way to get the "demanded thing" (loom points) is to buy it (correct me if I'm wrong), yet in this market you can product it yourself by retiring (the only way of production), means the supplier and the customers are the same people (thus who can enter the market) since they're are the only ones making enough money to align with the prices of the market.

But there's no point in this debat anymore, I just underestimated the amount of gold you can earn in one generation with the actual system.

Quote
Theres no such thing as a 'natural value'. Things have the value people attach to them, no more, no less. And the value that people attach to one generation of grinding is roughly 600k ingame crpg gold.

Yes, but people generally value it with the amount of time they spend behind their screen making a loom points, and that can roughly be "translated" in gold by calculating the amount of gold generated on crpg in the same amount of time (~ 450k for 1gen without upkeep, I found the crpg xp gain calculator again xD), with market fluctuation it kind of stays around the original price I guess.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on August 09, 2012, 12:57:44 am
I don't think your graph applies for this : I think It implies the only way to get the "demanded thing" (loom points) is to buy it (correct me if I'm wrong), yet in this market you can product it yourself by retiring (the only way of production), means the supplier and the customers are the same people (thus who can enter the market) since they're are the only ones making enough money to align with the prices of the market.
Doesn't change the graph. Just lowers the price, really. If there was only say, 5 people who can create looms and the rest were buyers, the price would be through the roof.

Everyone being able to produce heirlooms causes this:
Demand is decreased. I can do it myself --> Price drops
Supply is increased. There is a lot of heirlooms around --> Price drops
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Leshma on August 09, 2012, 01:16:41 am
It's not that simple Khorin.

Suply and demand can stay the same but heirloom price will drop. We're witnessing that as we speak.

Gold now has higher value than before because of gold sinks.

We'll see how much gold we'll earn when score replaces multi but even if it stays the same for average player loom prices will go down, drastically. That will happen because leeching and playing in cheap gear won't generate same amount of gold during a week. You'll still get 350k gold but it will take you a lot longer and because of that people will stop doing it.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on August 09, 2012, 01:27:46 am
Gold now has higher value than before because of gold sinks.

The determinants of demand follow:

1. Income (meaning the available the consumer has to spend)
2. Tastes and preferences
3. Prices of related goods and services
4. Consumers' expectations about future prices and incomes
5. Number of potential consumers

Naturally it's not that simple as shown in the graph, but it's a good generalization.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Harald on August 09, 2012, 02:43:03 am
Here are some pretty graphs for anyone interested. They are based on active characters only and start at the introduction of the transfer between characters (before we had them split between main and alt). Unfortunately we didn't start tracking before the marketplace tax was added, would have been interesting to compare.

People are hoarding heirloom points!
(click to show/hide)

The taxes and sinks at work.
(click to show/hide)

How rich are rich people? At first it seemed they were not really affected by the tax (not seen in the graph), i think they were trying to sit it out by not trading. Total is taken from the 100 richest.
(click to show/hide)

Poor people are really dirt-poor. The average rich person has way more gold than the 1000 (!) poorest characters together.
(click to show/hide)

EDIT: now that i think about that it might be a good idea to start tracking total gold per account too, not just characters.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Rhekimos on August 09, 2012, 02:46:07 am
-

Very interesting, thanks.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 09, 2012, 02:59:36 am
That is very interesting, but you should probably total it up per account, my alt has 2,000 gold, my main has 470,000 .

Information like that is crack for us forum junkies...cmp released the damage stats of NA and EU battle servers from like May (I believe), would be awesome if we could see the monthly damage totals at the end of each month, or every quarter or something.

P.S.  Dev's are renown whores
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Torost on August 09, 2012, 09:27:13 am
the tax is a real killer for liquidity when trading in gold. Make it 1% or something, you will get almost the same amount in, just spread over more trades. The tax makes speculating really hard. Or slow and hard to profit from.
Makes everyone trying to contruct odd trades that doesnt involve gold to bypass it.
Ofc the rich oldtimers trust eachother not to scam eachother and trade offmarket with no tax.(I got no proof)

I become very amused when I see all kinds of people posting crazy trades when you can buy several loompoints for 520K -550K

Trying to get 1 loompoint + 100 000 gold for their +1 loom.
Or 2 000 000 gold for their +3 MW item.

If you price your items higher than it takes to make them with loompoints ... it wont sell!
And anyone that has 2 000 000 gold can not be considered a newbie , and will never fall for it.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Oberyn on August 09, 2012, 09:39:01 am
Marketing

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Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on August 09, 2012, 09:46:27 am
It's fine how it is.

Get yourself 300k by using peasant gear, buy a +1 and start trading +1s with gold on top. It will take you forever~!~ but at some point you'll gain enough gold to buy a +3.

Buy low sell high, swap shit for shit and get what ever gold is on offer.

Looms help, but they aren't the be all and end all.

-----

I think the biggest difference in +3 vs non-loomed are

Throwing
Horses
Shields

In that order. The boost for 2h and pole arms is nice but it's just kind of icing on the cake. But for the other 3 you see a real differnce. My +3 Brown lion Heater shield lasts a lot longer than a non-loomed one and my Cataphract is a completely different beast. And it's pretty easy to feel the difference with loomed +3 Heavy Throwing Axes vs non-loomed.

But looms aren't make or break. I've killed plenty of people that are loomed head to toe with unloomed weapons.

The real thing that blocks entry for many is how hard the game is and the fact that we are all douch lords.

(click to show/hide)

I never thought I would be so proud to be in the 1%

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

BATMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: MB passionately on August 09, 2012, 12:37:58 pm
Lol!!

Quote
Poor people are really dirt-poor. The average rich person has way more gold than the 1000 (!) poorest characters together.

Like in real life, welcome reality  :lol:
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: MB passionately on August 09, 2012, 01:02:31 pm
Apart from that, with a well balanced level 32 or 33 character, do you need loomed equipment, probably you (and I) will suck more in duels, but in a crowded 100 person battle??

I plan to retire with my alt character, but I think the market is saturated at the moment (23 offers from 510-655k)
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: dynamike on August 09, 2012, 03:18:50 pm
Yo friends !

First of all, I'm not really a "market guy"... my only interaction with it was trying to trade Mr_Fasole's MW javelins for him. And that's a shame ! I'd like to take part in the market and pay for some stuffs I want!

But here's the (my) issue > I'll never get enough money to buy 1 loom point. I've around 80k-100k gold, plus an equipement worth around 200k I think (I haz a shitload of stuffs) and a +2 nordic champion sword (that's the only loomed item I have).

I'll never get 500k or 600k, people who do not take part in the retiring game and just want to make a solid build -or don't have time to make their char again and again- are kind of excluded from the market because of the ridiculous evaluation of the loom point (or devaluation of the money ?).
What I'm trying to point out here is that there's no "natural value", only human mind fixes value.

I'm not trying to say people should gief their loom points for a bag of chips, but to bring the prices to a reasonnable and accessible level for people who don't race throught generations.
If we use the power of logic, the price of a loom point should approximatively be around the amount of gold you earn during a generation ; since that's kind of the only way to measure the "price of the time" you spent (or wasted, video games are wrong !) playing crpg. (and I don't think that's around 500k, maybe 100 or 150k, but I never really paid attention to it)

So yeah you wouldn't count in millions anymore, but it would be easier for sellers to find buyers, and it would be POSSIBLE for buyers to buy what they're looking for with a reasonnable period of gold grinding : the market wouldn't be a private club for wealthy crpg players and loom grinders anymore ;p

I might be completely wrong, but I think that kind of make sense.

It's funny that you say you can't participate in the market when at the same time you have a +2 heirloom on your hands...

The market is not about getting free stuff without putting anything in - you need to invest/trade your current heirlooms to gain other ones and/or make money.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: Lichen on August 09, 2012, 05:35:34 pm

I'm level 34 and my build's awesome, I don't really mind about looms and shit, and I could probably spend enough time retiring an alt and make a +3 sword, that would be all I'd like.

It's more for newcomers who'll get pwnd hard without any way to get real equipement but spending their nights grinding.
cRPG is an awesome mod, it should be fun for everyone, not only for the people who've been playing for ages.
Newcomers who get pwned hard will not magically be saved by acquiring looms. If you suck without them you'll suck with them. You act as if non loomed gear is worthless when it's basically around 98% of what a fully loomed item is. I'm really tired of this BS about not being able to compete without looms. Because it's just bullshit.
Title: Re: Thoughts about marketing.
Post by: 22nd_deprav on August 10, 2012, 12:31:46 am
Well, I was obviously wrong from the start so there's no point keeping that open !