Other Games => Guild Wars => Topic started by: Skrubb on August 08, 2012, 06:15:16 pm
Title: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Skrubb on August 08, 2012, 06:15:16 pm
From what I have seen in the betas, they are going to have a currency exchange in the Black Lion Trading Company tab.
This ingame window will be basically all of what you need in the palm of your hand in terms of money. So let's say you need a new pair of boots. You can go and buy these from somebody on the auction house type deal in that tab.
Go up to the top tab you'll find a "Currency Exchange" where you can trade Gems for In game gold and vice versa.
What gems are used for are things in a Guild Wars shop which will be most similar to the NX Shop in Maple Story for all you fans out there. (Nerdy.. and embarrassing. I know)
I say this because the lead designer of that NX shop has helped in producing the "gem shop" in the new Guild Wars.
So are people going to spend real money to get all the money in Guild Wars 2 and overpower the people who choose not to pay?
One example brought up was that you can craft and craft alone without touching a single mob after the intro and through this get to level 80.
Somebody had been worried that you may be able to buy gems, convert them to gold, and then buy all the crafting items they need to reach level 80.
But let's look at the real thing here. If somebody really wants to get to level 80 that way it will cost tons and tons of real money and would in the end not be worth it at all.
Second of they are only destroying their own experience of the game being locked up in some crafting chamber maybe in the Black Forge.
Third it's not necessarily pay to win because that person wasting their own money won't have any type of superiority in terms of gear. (If they only craft, they'll never have done any dungeons such as Arah. Which has beautiful level 80 armor sets may I add.)
These people who choose this way of leveling will affect the world minimally if at all. The better way for them to do it would in my opinion be to buy possible Exp boosts offered in the Gem Store.
This being said I think that the Currency Exchange is a very good thing. People who don't want to pay for gems can work hard and be thrifty in the game in order to buy gems on the exchange.
I see this as another very good end game opportunity. After all content is completed if ever, I would most likely spend my time in World v. World getting money and most likely spending some of that on getting some gems. Then I could buy some cool cosmetics like Aviator glasses in the Gem Store.
It's brilliant really. The game as a whole is brilliant. I can't wait to play.
See you guys out there!
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Miley on August 08, 2012, 11:12:21 pm
I don't think Guild Wars 2 is that brilliant... They took Guild Wars 1's unique skill sets and turned them into generic button mashing skills that are like the same across all characters... It may be an exaggeration, but it's like everyone profession does the same thing, unlike in Guild Wars 1.
I stopped playing after the very first beta weekend, so maybe they've changed things, but I was very disappointed to see bla skills and NO HEALING CLASS basically. Every profession has like a ring thing they can cast, a wall of something in front of them they can set, etc., if you know what I mean.
I did have fun, and I do agree I love the graphics improvements since Guild Wars 1 (a lot of laggy FPS, which they hopefully fixed). Are they going to have same armor that every profession can wear? (For example: Runescape lulz) I'm kind of impartial to that--I don't care if they did it the Guild Wars 1 way where every profession had a specific look of gear kind of, and I don't care if different professions can wear the same armor. Another thing was like the kind of repetitiveness of the so called "random events." I thought they were going to be, I don't know... maybe uncommon? But I see them all the time, and they're all the same.
I'm excited to see the full game, though, and I'd like to see if they added more side things to do (like Runescape again), which Guild Wars 1 did not have much of, and all the new stuff to do and see, etc. Keep in mind that the things I listed above were just from the first beta weekend, so correct me if I'm wrong. And I know this was off topic, but I just saw the "brilliant game" part and had to elaborate and give my opinion on that. And I'm also excited to get all my Guild Wars 1 HoM stuff!
But more on topic: Hopefully they don't let P2P get people OVERPOWERED items, hopefully it's just better items or cool skins, etc. But this is a free to play game, so how are they going to make some more money?
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Havoco on August 09, 2012, 12:42:02 am
Now that I looked at the GW2 builder, im content in seeing the diversity of trait skills combined with the utility skills. It really seems like u can build whatever role u want around each profession. Though, I do agree that I didn't like the first BWE.
Anyways the gem store was a good idea.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Skrubb on August 09, 2012, 09:24:49 am
Miley! If anything just try it out because it's not p2p. The thing i'm most most most excited for is all the artwork put into the scenery to make it come to life. I think everything is meshed together well. And it will probably get less button mashy and more skill based in higher level tasks!
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Vibe on August 09, 2012, 09:32:10 am
i hate your font and the spaces between lines, you make your posts a massively unenjoyable experience
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Slamz on August 09, 2012, 10:43:59 am
I don't think Guild Wars 2 is that brilliant... They took Guild Wars 1's
There's your first mistake: comparing it to Guild Wars 1. It seems to me that almost all of the vehement complaints about GW2 come from GW1 players who were expecting more of the same.
It's kinda like all my comic book nerd friends who go see some movie based on a comic and say "Man that movie sucked". I thought it was awesome! But they came in the door with preconceptions about what it was going to be like and left disappointed that it didn't match the comics. I think you'd like GW2 more if you stopped trying to compare it to what you thought it was going to be.
Quote
I was very disappointed to see bla skills and NO HEALING CLASS basically.
Not sure why you think they have "bla skills". Knockdowns, knockbacks, teleports, ranged AE, PB AE, line AE, etc -- they have a pretty complete set of "things you can possibly have in an RPG".
No healing class (and also no tank class) is a design decision some people definitely won't like but I personally think it's brilliant. The old "healer - tank - DPS" formation lead to boring gameplay all around, IMO. Even in PvP you knew you had to deal with the healer and if you didn't, you lost. Tended to make all the combat very predictable. I find combat in GW2, both PvE and PvP, to be far more active and involved for all members. Everyone is responsible for their own survival because there's really nobody out there who can do it for it for you, as in other games where you basically just got hit and did nothing in particular about it because it was the healer's job to play whack-a-mole with the health bars.
Quote
But more on topic: Hopefully they don't let P2P get people OVERPOWERED items, hopefully it's just better items or cool skins, etc. But this is a free to play game, so how are they going to make some more money?
You'd be surprised how much money people put down on cosmetic items. I thought Pirates of the Burning Sea was going to die shortly after launching "free to play" with a cash store for cosmetic items but apparently it did so well, they actually expanded the development team and started hiring again. There's money in there somewhere.
Another interesting thing here, though, is that there's no "pay to win" because there's no "win" that I can see. In WOW, Rift, WAR, etc, there was a PvE progression and you might say you "win" after you got through that progression, which was necessarily long and arduous (grindy). People would be pissed if you simply sold the end-game armor for money because the grinders would feel robbed of their "job" of grinding for gear.
As far as I can tell, GW2 gear hits a plateau right at 80 and the only thing after that is cosmetic stuff. So basically either you have fun and you keep playing purely because you find the game fun, or you don't have fun and you stop. No more of what I see too much in those other games, which is people apparently not having much fun but playing anyway because they really have to get the +11 additional STR from that next helmet in the next set. Since GW2 is free to play, they have no reason to build the usual "carrot on a stick" system that keeps players logged in 10 hours a day, 7 days a week for two years. You play til you get bored of the content and then you do something else until the expansion comes out.
Personally I think World vs World is where it's at and is where I expect I'll be for at least a couple months.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: SeQuel on August 09, 2012, 11:10:01 am
As far as I can tell, GW2 gear hits a plateau right at 80 and the only thing after that is cosmetic stuff. So basically either you have fun and you keep playing purely because you find the game fun, or you don't have fun and you stop. No more of what I see too much in those other games, which is people apparently not having much fun but playing anyway because they really have to get the +11 additional STR from that next helmet in the next set. Since GW2 is free to play, they have no reason to build the usual "carrot on a stick" system that keeps players logged in 10 hours a day, 7 days a week for two years. You play til you get bored of the content and then you do something else until the expansion comes out. Personally I think World vs World is where it's at and is where I expect I'll be for at least a couple months.
Guildwars 1 did it this way, once you hit max level which was 20 and end game was farming for cosmetic stuff mainly for looks and bragging rights. That was literally it, but loads of people loved it, including me. You could look like the shittiest fucking character in the game yet still whoop ass since you're on the same playing field as everyone else, no matter how good your armor looks.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Vibe on August 09, 2012, 11:37:31 am
Guild Wars 2 hits the power plateau at EXOTIC quality lvl 80 gear. That's the max stats you can get. So lower quality level 80 items don't have as good stats as higher quality lvl 80 items. But there won't be any "tiers" inside a certain quality, for example all exotic items have the same stat numbers.
There's your first mistake: comparing it to Guild Wars 1. It seems to me that almost all of the vehement complaints about GW2 come from GW1 players who were expecting more of the same.
It's kinda like all my comic book nerd friends who go see some movie based on a comic and say "Man that movie sucked". I thought it was awesome! But they came in the door with preconceptions about what it was going to be like and left disappointed that it didn't match the comics. I think you'd like GW2 more if you stopped trying to compare it to what you thought it was going to be.
Not sure why you think they have "bla skills". Knockdowns, knockbacks, teleports, ranged AE, PB AE, line AE, etc -- they have a pretty complete set of "things you can possibly have in an RPG".
No healing class (and also no tank class) is a design decision some people definitely won't like but I personally think it's brilliant. The old "healer - tank - DPS" formation lead to boring gameplay all around, IMO. Even in PvP you knew you had to deal with the healer and if you didn't, you lost. Tended to make all the combat very predictable. I find combat in GW2, both PvE and PvP, to be far more active and involved for all members. Everyone is responsible for their own survival because there's really nobody out there who can do it for it for you, as in other games where you basically just got hit and did nothing in particular about it because it was the healer's job to play whack-a-mole with the health bars.
I don't think it's a mistake comparing it to Guild Wars 1. I've been waiting for this game to come out for much longer than you have, and I think it's normal for me to have expectations. I've been waiting for years, and have PC Gamer magazines on this game that gave the first look on it and stuff. I read them, I played Guild Wars 1, and you don't expect me to have expectations? I think your mistake is that you haven't played Guild Wars 1.
Also, about the tank and healing classes. Yep, I thought that was fun on Guild Wars 1. You're saying I'm being mistaken because I'm comparing it to Guild Wars 1, but by that logic, you're making a mistake by comparing Guild Wars 2/1 to other MMORPGs that YOU have played, and that's why tank/heal is boring to YOU--because for me, it's not because I don't play MMORPGs.
Beautiful, Beautiful, Beautifully crafted armor sets. (I love the Arah) Can't wait for everything! :(
/skips to human class o.o I guess they're cool, but I don't know why you you say beautiful three times, because I think that's kind of exaggerating. Did you play GW1 much--they have good ones also, and I bet other games do also, so I don't know why these are x3 special -.-
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: HarunYahya on August 10, 2012, 03:58:31 am
I DIDN'T READ BECAUSE OF THAT FUCKING UGLY AND HARD TO READ FONT !
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Vieuxcrotter on August 12, 2012, 03:22:35 am
I don't think Guild Wars 2 is that brilliant... They took Guild Wars 1's unique skill sets and turned them into generic button mashing skills that are like the same across all characters... It may be an exaggeration, but it's like everyone profession does the same thing, unlike in Guild Wars 1.
I stopped playing after the very first beta weekend, so maybe they've changed things, but I was very disappointed to see bla skills and NO HEALING CLASS basically. Every profession has like a ring thing they can cast, a wall of something in front of them they can set, etc., if you know what I mean.
I did have fun, and I do agree I love the graphics improvements since Guild Wars 1 (a lot of laggy FPS, which they hopefully fixed). Are they going to have same armor that every profession can wear? (For example: Runescape lulz) I'm kind of impartial to that--I don't care if they did it the Guild Wars 1 way where every profession had a specific look of gear kind of, and I don't care if different professions can wear the same armor. Another thing was like the kind of repetitiveness of the so called "random events." I thought they were going to be, I don't know... maybe uncommon? But I see them all the time, and they're all the same.
I'm excited to see the full game, though, and I'd like to see if they added more side things to do (like Runescape again), which Guild Wars 1 did not have much of, and all the new stuff to do and see, etc. Keep in mind that the things I listed above were just from the first beta weekend, so correct me if I'm wrong. And I know this was off topic, but I just saw the "brilliant game" part and had to elaborate and give my opinion on that. And I'm also excited to get all my Guild Wars 1 HoM stuff!
But more on topic: Hopefully they don't let P2P get people OVERPOWERED items, hopefully it's just better items or cool skins, etc. But this is a free to play game, so how are they going to make some more money?
LOL stopped reading after the first sentence you obviously didnt play the game long enough to understand it.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Miley on August 12, 2012, 08:36:47 pm
Miley get a clue you dont know anything about gw2, its obvious by what you wrote. Dont flame me, just learn more about the game.
Get a clue about Guild Wars 1 and where I'm coming from. Also, get a clue and read the rest of my post and see that I said I only played the first beta. You flamed me first, idiot.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Havoco on August 13, 2012, 05:38:33 am
Now that I think of it Miley, it doesn't surprise me that they didn't make a skill system similar to GW1. The numerous skills (140 alone for ranger) makes it hard to balance an MMO. Have you played GW1 lately? It seems they've nerfed all the older builds in some way. And its seems like that's all the balancing that has been done since I quit playing 3-4 years ago. Just a bunch of nerfs or reworking skills. It took me awhile to get over the change for GW2, but now that i think of it, there's still is a lot of potential for varying builds across all classes. All the weapon skills lean toward a certain role in the game as well as the trait trees and utility skills.
Oh and btw, no healing class? Look at an elixir gun/elixir engineer. keep in mind u can throw elixirs to make an aoe effect.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Vibe on August 13, 2012, 07:22:33 am
You can basically still play the holy trinity. It's not as defined as in GW1 / other MMO's, but for example properly traited Warrior or Guardian with shield is a very very defensive/support playstyle and for example Water Elementalist and Elixir Gun Engi (like Havoco mentioned) produce a lot of heals for their team.
That being said Guild Wars 2 is a very different game compared to Guild Wars, if you can compare then even.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Vieuxcrotter on August 13, 2012, 01:01:47 pm
Get a clue about Guild Wars 1 and where I'm coming from. Also, get a clue and read the rest of my post and see that I said I only played the first beta. You flamed me first, idiot.
I played gw1 for mostly over 5years and all the crap you wrote about gw2 is wrong. When you mention generic skill bar with button smashing like really? Have you even seen high level competitive pvp ? I think not , so you clearly talking out of your ass. And then you mention all class and skill are the same across the board like really? Each class are a unique game style , no class are played the same, having someone say that about gw2 class is beyond me.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Voso on August 13, 2012, 06:54:01 pm
I played gw1 for mostly over 5years and all the crap you wrote about gw2 is wrong. When you mention generic skill bar with button smashing like really? Have you even seen high level competitive pvp ? I think not , so you clearly talking out of your ass. And then you mention all class and skill are the same across the board like really? Each class are a unique game style , no class are played the same, having someone say that about gw2 class is beyond me.
To be fair, when you start off in pvp all you do is button smash until you adjust to the chaos and your build. Miley said he only played the first bwe, my first bwe pvp experience consisted of random button smashing and untimed dodges.
It takes a while before you start to make sense of the madness, the large amount of skills being used, and you begin to realize when to dodge, when to use each skill.
Therefore, Miley is right, in a way. He is just speaking from his experiences and even went on to say he enjoys the game and will be playing it.
So shut the fuck up Vieuxcrotter.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Vieuxcrotter on August 14, 2012, 01:10:05 am
Get mad , button smashing will get you wreck in any level of play even in pve. All the shit miley been spewing about gw2 is wrong.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Tyrell on August 18, 2012, 12:02:52 am
This is the best fucking part. If you've ever played GW1, or any MMO for that matter, you'd know it was a huge bitch to get into any party unless you were a monk or a warrior.
Glad they chopped the trinity.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: SeQuel on August 18, 2012, 01:23:05 am
This is the best fucking part. If you've ever played GW1, or any MMO for that matter, you'd know it was a huge bitch to get into any party unless you were a monk or a warrior.
Glad they chopped the trinity.
I would have to agree here even though Healer was my favorite class in most MMO's.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on August 18, 2012, 09:42:06 am
Trinity is the most boring concept ever. I'd rather mix my party however I want.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Tyrell on August 19, 2012, 05:33:16 pm
I would have to agree here even though Healer was my favorite class in most MMO's.
Closest thing to a healer IMO is an elementalist =) think it's very similar
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Havoco on August 20, 2012, 02:30:15 am
I think the trinity system will still exist in a form in gw2; at least for team pvp. Obviously ppl will still want healers and dps and maybe a few support/tanks as well.The main thing that sets the class system apart from other mmos is the variety in each class. They all have a dps spec and healer, support or tank spec as well. It's also pretty easy to combine them it seems.
Edit: oh ya, forgot one thing. It also seems like the environment doesnt make it as necessary for a "trinity group"
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Peasant_Woman on August 20, 2012, 02:25:55 pm
I'm planning a dirty crit spec rifle engi, going to experiment with all the kits and elixir gun too. I will be mixing up my builds often though, one of the most fun parts of mmos for me personally is buildcrafting and seeing what unusual builds I can play and still be viable in pvp.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: SeQuel on August 20, 2012, 08:15:58 pm
I'm planning a dirty crit spec rifle engi, going to experiment with all the kits and elixir gun too. I will be mixing up my builds often though, one of the most fun parts of mmos for me personally is buildcrafting and seeing what unusual builds I can play and still be viable in pvp.
Yup, I enjoyed that a lot in Guildwars 1 but on a larger scale since they had way more skills.
I ended up making the most beastly 1v1 Ranger build and the only way my friends could beat it was when my one of them made a dervish and made the build specifically to counter me after trying for about an hour. It was pretty funny.
Title: Re: The Gem System: Pay to Win?
Post by: Thovex on August 20, 2012, 10:52:47 pm
most fun parts of mmos for me personally is buildcrafting
Same for me. Facepalmed when realized that instead of hundreds of possible skillbar combinations like in Guild Wars, in this "sequel" is a preset bar for button mashing and rolling around.