cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Torben on August 07, 2012, 12:18:48 am

Title: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Torben on August 07, 2012, 12:18:48 am

the game seems to be too much of a grindfest for me,  with people cherishing strat sieges specially for the xp etc,  etc.

the new  tournament system made me think:  how would it be to manifest character development through ingame performance,  however  not linear like the single player wpf progression,  but based on in game performance.  using a weapon or an item successfully,  gives you the appropriate character bonuses,

simply spoken:  your wpf evolves a bit like the points in the duel system,  however not relative to the other players,  but to your own performance.


all this hypothetically spoken ofc,  I realize it would be a whole different game.

edit:
less vague,  quoted from a response below

(click to show/hide)

Quote from: Torben on August 07, 2012, 12:54:16 pm

this is in general discussions,  because it is not an suggestion,  bloody ^^

everyone:  I am aware this wont be implemented,  just wanted to here what you are thinking.

however,  many dont get the point where it is similar to the duel points system,  meaning every single mistake decreasing you value again,  so playing dedicated is being rewarded rather than goofing around waiting for the ticks.

the system would put mistakes relative to accomplishments:  low level and high level mistakes dont matter concerning low level accomplishments, 
high level mistakes dont matter a lot versus medium level accomplishments but do matter concerning high level accomplishments.
low level mistakes by a high level character are devestating.
thats how a natural cap would be achieved.

little example of how i vaguely thought of it:

peasant will block and hit a few times,  gets a wpf boost

intermediate has a series of a few good blocks,  hits,  maybe a faint,  gets a boost

veteran does a chamber,  gets a boost,  than fucks up a block and gets a  substraction.

all these boosts and supstractions would be scaled accordingly:  high lvl players wouldnt win anything by perfectly blocking,  but would loose some points for doing easy mistakes. the harder the mistake,  the lesser the loss,  the higher the achievement,  the higher the win
(chase would become even more of a god,  until he reaches a level where any mistake he makes gives him such a great penalty because its noobish considering his high acquired skill.
Torben would stay a peasant on foot forever,  cause he cant block.  maybe his riding and lancing proficiency would do the trick to not render him completly useless.
kinngrimm will dance around and block so many enemies at once,  that his shield skill gets a boost,  and random archer lands that perfect head shot accross them map,  gets a huge boost,  and than shoots his pal in the back not even 10 feet away and looses all he just gained.


I am thinking of a dynamic,  evolving character system.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Yachdiel on August 07, 2012, 02:16:56 am

I actually miss that aspect of old cRPG, where those who played for fun and didn't look to play efficiently or with any insane skill had great characters. Where people could build their characters by what they wanted, I remember starting as a shielder then putting WPF into polearm just because I wanted to. Can't do that now. Gotta check your endgame build. I liked how you could make a character based on what you wanted. WPF evolving from how you play isn't the best idea currently because right now the game is overpopulated with people who play like CoDwhores, using the best gear regardless of personal preference to get stupid k/d's to Ewank over. Rewarding them would just reinforce their CoD playstle.

 I say more linear is better


Although I guess evolution through looms isn't too bad...


...is it?

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Taser on August 07, 2012, 02:20:40 am

Hmm might be interesting but you're talking about how it works in the single player game right? You use 1h weapons and eventually as you kill/wound people you get more 1h wpf. At least I remember that being how it works.. I haven't played the single player campaign in so long lol.

It'd be interesting if it worked that way. There'd need to be a limit though lol otherwise I could get 300+ wpf in everything like I used to in single player.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: bonekuukkeli on August 07, 2012, 08:07:27 am

Yeah it would be lovely, but as above mentioned there should be skill limit. Soft cap around 200, hard cap around 300 or so and skill decay so no-one can have "full skills" in everything at once. Like that you could progress through game and change playing style by using new weapon and basically _learning it_.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: dodnet on August 07, 2012, 08:36:55 am

Some games use this mechanism where you increase your points in a weapon by using it. So you wouldn't put WPF into polearm, WPF would increase if you use a polearm. That would be great.

But I think the range is too small to make a "lifetime" leveling possible. We need other rewards... like buying houses or castles  :mrgreen:

PS: Yeah, singleplayer uses this too.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Vibe on August 07, 2012, 08:43:24 am

I would be up for omitting as much grind as possible, speed up the leveling!

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on August 07, 2012, 09:21:13 am

Quote from: Torben on August 07, 2012, 12:18:48 am

the game seems to be too much of a grindfest for me,  with people cherishing strat sieges specially for the xp etc,  etc. ...  I realize it would be a whole different game.

You are out of your mind...

Here, let me read your future:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

You will cry your eyes out, when everyone but you, have maxed their WPPs in everything. You will make few threads here - nerf this, OP that, game broken, etc. You will smash your head against keyboard, when some naked peasant will beat you three times in a row using a 300 WPP staff and 300 WPP throwing knifes.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Digglez on August 07, 2012, 09:25:41 am

Too bad Conquest mode failed, would have been pretty fun with equipment value limits

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Toodles on August 07, 2012, 11:33:12 am

Quote from: Digglez on August 07, 2012, 09:25:41 am

Too bad Conquest mode failed, would have been pretty fun with equipment value limits

When was this? I love this mode, never played it in cRPG.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Byrdi on August 07, 2012, 11:46:54 am

I think the devs have a laid out quite a big plan for the future XP system and wpf curve. I would wait for it to be release before trying to change it :D

But then again it might take ages before the next big update hits us :(

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on August 07, 2012, 12:25:31 pm

sorry, but this suggestion seems very vague and I don't really see the benefit or the difference regarding grind from the current one.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Torben on August 07, 2012, 12:54:16 pm

this is in general discussions,  because it is not an suggestion,  bloody ^^

everyone:  I am aware this wont be implemented,  just wanted to here what you are thinking.

however,  many dont get the point where it is similar to the duel points system,  meaning every single mistake decreasing you value again,  so playing dedicated is being rewarded rather than goofing around waiting for the ticks.

the system would put mistakes relative to accomplishments:  low level and high level mistakes dont matter concerning low level accomplishments, 
high level mistakes dont matter a lot versus medium level accomplishments but do matter concerning high level accomplishments.
low level mistakes by a high level character are devestating.
thats how a natural cap would be achieved.

little example of how i vaguely thought of it:

peasant will block and hit a few times,  gets a wpf boost

intermediate has a series of a few good blocks,  hits,  maybe a faint,  gets a boost

veteran does a chamber,  gets a boost,  than fucks up a block and gets a  substraction.

all these boosts and supstractions would be scaled accordingly:  high lvl players wouldnt win anything by perfectly blocking,  but would loose some points for doing easy mistakes. the harder the mistake,  the lesser the loss,  the higher the achievement,  the higher the win
(chase would become even more of a god,  until he reaches a level where any mistake he makes gives him such a great penalty because its noobish considering his high acquired skill.
Torben would stay a peasant on foot forever,  cause he cant block.  maybe his riding and lancing proficiency would do the trick to not render him completly useless.
kinngrimm will dance around and block so many enemies at once,  that his shield skill gets a boost,  and random archer lands that perfect head shot accross them map,  gets a huge boost,  and than shoots his pal in the back not even 10 feet away and looses all he just gained.


I am thinking of a dynamic,  evolving character system.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on August 07, 2012, 02:08:49 pm

Quote from: Torben on August 07, 2012, 12:54:16 pm

this is in general discussions,  because it is not an suggestion,  bloody ^^

everyone:  I am aware this wont be implemented,  just wanted to here what you are thinking.

however,  many dont get the point where it is similar to the duel points system,  meaning every single mistake decreasing you value again,  so playing dedicated is being rewarded rather than goofing around waiting for the ticks.

the system would put mistakes relative to accomplishments:  low level and high level mistakes dont matter concerning low level accomplishments, 
high level mistakes dont matter a lot versus medium level accomplishments but do matter concerning high level accomplishments.
low level mistakes by a high level character are devestating.
thats how a natural cap would be achieved.

little example of how i vaguely thought of it:

peasant will block and hit a few times,  gets a wpf boost

intermediate has a series of a few good blocks,  hits,  maybe a faint,  gets a boost

veteran does a chamber,  gets a boost,  than fucks up a block and gets a  substraction.

all these boosts and supstractions would be scaled accordingly:  high lvl players wouldnt win anything by perfectly blocking,  but would loose some points for doing easy mistakes. the harder the mistake,  the lesser the loss,  the higher the achievement,  the higher the win
(chase would become even more of a god,  until he reaches a level where any mistake he makes gives him such a great penalty because its noobish considering his high acquired skill.
Torben would stay a peasant on foot forever,  cause he cant block.  maybe his riding and lancing proficiency would do the trick to not render him completly useless.
kinngrimm will dance around and block so many enemies at once,  that his shield skill gets a boost,  and random archer lands that perfect head shot accross them map,  gets a huge boost,  and than shoots his pal in the back not even 10 feet away and looses all he just gained.


I am thinking of a dynamic,  evolving character system.

Technically impossible. And if it was, it would be abused so hard - there would be a wave of mass RL suicides. Not even going to elaborate on that one.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: dodnet on August 07, 2012, 02:28:34 pm

(click to show/hide)

Quote from: Torben on August 07, 2012, 12:54:16 pm

this is in general discussions,  because it is not an suggestion,  bloody ^^

everyone:  I am aware this wont be implemented,  just wanted to here what you are thinking.

however,  many dont get the point where it is similar to the duel points system,  meaning every single mistake decreasing you value again,  so playing dedicated is being rewarded rather than goofing around waiting for the ticks.

the system would put mistakes relative to accomplishments:  low level and high level mistakes dont matter concerning low level accomplishments, 
high level mistakes dont matter a lot versus medium level accomplishments but do matter concerning high level accomplishments.
low level mistakes by a high level character are devestating.
thats how a natural cap would be achieved.

little example of how i vaguely thought of it:

peasant will block and hit a few times,  gets a wpf boost

intermediate has a series of a few good blocks,  hits,  maybe a faint,  gets a boost

veteran does a chamber,  gets a boost,  than fucks up a block and gets a  substraction.

all these boosts and supstractions would be scaled accordingly:  high lvl players wouldnt win anything by perfectly blocking,  but would loose some points for doing easy mistakes. the harder the mistake,  the lesser the loss,  the higher the achievement,  the higher the win
(chase would become even more of a god,  until he reaches a level where any mistake he makes gives him such a great penalty because its noobish considering his high acquired skill.
Torben would stay a peasant on foot forever,  cause he cant block.  maybe his riding and lancing proficiency would do the trick to not render him completly useless.
kinngrimm will dance around and block so many enemies at once,  that his shield skill gets a boost,  and random archer lands that perfect head shot accross them map,  gets a huge boost,  and than shoots his pal in the back not even 10 feet away and looses all he just gained.


I am thinking of a dynamic,  evolving character system.

Well that sounds bad... if you make a mistake you lose everything you earned before? I sometimes play when I'm a bit tired. I play much worse then normal. In your scenario this would ruin every stat I raised before. Its like forced mini respec if you do bad.  Thats not fun.

Its like those singleplayer mods where when you get hurt lose some of your stats. I hate those, because it makes the game a pain.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Scrambles720 on August 07, 2012, 04:54:11 pm

Ok so you complain about the grind. Then suggest something that encourages even more grind?

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Torben on August 07, 2012, 04:56:20 pm

Quote from: Scrambles720 on August 07, 2012, 04:54:11 pm

Ok so you complain about the grind. Then suggest something that encourages even more grind?

ok,  so english is my 3rd language,  but I dont see how you could interpret that into my post.  weird.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 06:29:46 pm

In MMORPGs, "grinding" is doing something you don't enjoy (quests, killing the same monster/dungeon 100x, etc), so you can effectively do something you do enjoy (raids/pvp, whatever).

cRPG has no such "filler". People play this game because they like playing a somewhat realistic multiplayer medieval combat simulator with an in-depth melee combat system. That's all there is to do, and it's fun. In the only game mode I play (siege), you never have to wait more than a minute before you are locked in some kind of multiplayer combat.

The leveling aspect isn't a "grind", because you still get to take part in the same fun combat mechanics regardless of your level. It's more satisfying to kill a level 30+ when you are level 1 than to get 20 kills when you're high level yourself. If you don't like being a peasant, you don't ever have to, just skip the fun.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on August 07, 2012, 06:40:19 pm

So what if I have a bad day, or people keep walking into my swings?
Am I to be punished?

Also, what about the sperglords that are uber skillful? That would just make them better.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Paniolo808 on August 07, 2012, 10:07:39 pm

I have seen people retire right before strat sieges, then just hide in a bush because they're naked. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't fly on regular battle/siege.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: rustyspoon on August 07, 2012, 10:15:12 pm

I gotta say though, once you stop caring about xp and levelling, the game becomes soooooo much better.

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Torben on August 07, 2012, 10:43:28 pm

Quote from: Phew on August 07, 2012, 06:29:46 pm

(click to show/hide)

In MMORPGs, "grinding" is doing something you don't enjoy (quests, killing the same monster/dungeon 100x, etc), so you can effectively do something you do enjoy (raids/pvp, whatever).

cRPG has no such "filler". People play this game because they like playing a somewhat realistic multiplayer medieval combat simulator with an in-depth melee combat system. That's all there is to do, and it's fun. In the only game mode I play (siege), you never have to wait more than a minute before you are locked in some kind of multiplayer combat.

The leveling aspect isn't a "grind", because you still get to take part in the same fun combat mechanics regardless of your level. It's more satisfying to kill a level 30+ when you are level 1 than to get 20 kills when you're high level yourself. If you don't like being a peasant, you don't ever have to, just skip the fun.

wise ass ^^

Quote from: Paniolo808 on August 07, 2012, 10:07:39 pm

(click to show/hide)

I have seen people retire right before strat sieges, then just hide in a bush because they're naked. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't fly on regular battle/siege.

everyone else:  use your imagination.  would be a completely new experience

Title: Re: Character evolution, stop the grinding
Post by: Torben on August 07, 2012, 10:48:05 pm

Quote from: rustyspoon on August 07, 2012, 10:15:12 pm

I gotta say though, once you stop caring about xp and levelling, the game becomes soooooo much better.

ya