cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Grumpy_Nic on July 31, 2012, 01:14:27 pm
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Hi!
I'd like to ask some of the more experienced archers (not Leshma :P) in crpg how much wpf is actually needed in combination with 1 slot bows (preferably the tatar or horn bow) to have not too bad aim.
Thx for sharing.
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Loomed / non-loomed bow? Min/Max PD? Sidearm?
I usually go with the following WPF and like it for short-mid range. I actually never aim for longer ranges.
Loomed with 5 PD -> ~ 135 +
Loomed with 6 PD -> min. 140
Loomed with 7/8 (max for tatar)/ 9 (max for horn) PD -> ~ 150
Not loomed I would go with around 140/50 at least.
Yumi Bow and 2slot bows need more wpf. It of course also depends on your skill.
Note that an Archer often goes with at least 18 AGI anyway. If you take more STR for more PD, you will have less WPF and you will still be fine with 5WM...
"Bad aim" also depends on you. Some Archers are fine with less wpf. :)
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No loomed items so far. I want to make a hybrid archer/melee with 18/18 build.
Which means I want to go 6 PD and 6 WM. Now the question is how many points I got left to put into melee... 2h or pole dunno yet
I would like to play a non-kiting archer, I've tried a 12/17 build with my STF to get an idea about kiting and its fuckin bullshit, feels even worse than spawnraping with cav.
18/18
5 IF
6PS
6ATH
6PD
6WM
These are my thoughts so far, not sure if this makes sense yet
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Loomed with 5 PD -> ~ 135 +
Not loomed I would go with around 140/50 at least.
Loomed bows deal more damage and therefore have penalty on accuracy which means you'll need more wpp for them. What you said doesn't make sense.
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No loomed items so far. I want to make a hybrid archer/melee with 18/18 build.
Which means I want to go 6 PD and 6 WM. Now the question is how many points I got left to put into melee... 2h or pole dunno yet
I would like to play a non-kiting archer, I've tried a 12/17 build with my STF to get an idea about kiting and its fuckin bullshit, feels even worse than spawnraping with cav.
18/18
5 IF
6PS
6ATH
6PD
6WM
These are my thoughts so far, not sure if this makes sense yet
Is that STF?
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between 140 to 150 minimum if you're going to play with a hornbow. More wpf is advised if you're going for long range.
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With 140 wpp and 5 PD you won't kill shit, even with loomed Horn Bow. If you don't believe me, try it yourself.
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18/18
5 IF
6PS
6ATH
6PD
6WM
Put around 80 wpf in your melee weapon, rest in archery. You gonna have enough with a good aim.
Ignore leshma. Practice is more important than theory. :P
With 140 wpp and 5 PD you won't kill shit, even with loomed Horn Bow. If you don't believe me, try it yourself.
It's possible. And what I listed above is just minimum amount. Always get as much wpf as you can!
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You've been archery longer than, you probably know better. He should listen to you and make this build.
Btw. trading mw horn bow for mw xbow or mw arbalest + gold :wink:
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You've been archery longer than, you probably know better. He should listen to you and make this build.
Well, that doesn't say much though. I aim to play for fun, not to win.
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Arrows flying two meters from where you aim sure is fun :lol:
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you sure hierloom bow is less accurate? they get an accuracy bonus to counter the inc in dmg accuracy loss, I always assumed it balances out like with crossbows.
anyway the answer to op's question is: as much wpf as possible!!!! I would say at least 150
my archer lvl 30 build was like this;
15 /24
2 ps
5 pd
8 alth
8 wm
8 skills to attributes
50 wpf 1hand
168 wpf archery
hornbow, 2x bodkins, steel pick.
it was very effective in ranged and mele with hierlooms, as the +3 steel pick is OVERPOWERED. 35 pierce weapon still does alot of damage even with 2 ps, and 100 speed means you can not get spammed with only 50 wpf. plus 8 alth means you can facehug easily, also at lvl 31 you can go 5 ps. people would run from me in mele and forget I could just shoot them in the back xD
only downside was upkeep was worse than full plate and plated charger. seriously!
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With 140 wpp and 5 PD you won't kill shit, even with loomed Horn Bow. If you don't believe me, try it yourself.
You can kill people with less than that, it just takes more arrows... :wink:
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Yeah, kill 3 to 5 people per map. I can kill more with any other weapon that can block. I've stopped aiming shots, it's pointless. Now I just spam and hope for lucky hits.
Anyways, this is just a test build to see is hybrid archery decent choice. For me, it's not. Not under current conditions. I need 175 wpp in archery and 150 wpp in 1H to have same results as my pure 2H.
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Thx for responses.
No its not a STF character, its my main. The first point of this build is to have less upkeep than a melee build with medium to heavy armour + expensive weapon or cav build. The second point is to have a non-kiting archer. I can live quite well with archers, also with teamhits and stuff. The only thing that makes me rage is this bullcrap-kiting which is nothing else but ridiculous. I want to see if its possible to play another type of archer and still have fun.
I'll go for 140-150 wpf in archery and probably the rest in polearms, ranged + rear horses must work somehow with the correct amount of training & timing.
EDIT: another option would be to go 15/21, as 5PD is still enough for horn bow and will increase the amount of wpf points I have with 7WM by quite a bit, so I could have around 145wpf in archery and something 100ish in melee.
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The first point of this build is to have less upkeep than a melee build with medium to heavy armour + expensive weapon or cav build
You'll be really dissapointed with any arrows that is better than barbed because you'll constantly loose money. Point is - PD penalty for your wpf. With 5 pd and 140 wpf - you'll have 70 effective wpf. 70 wpf in archery it's a highway to bankrupcy.
Also you'll be dissapointed with any arrows worse than bodkins, because with 5pd it's hard to kill anyone with 2 clear headshots at point blank range without «Pierce» modifier (IF opponent wear helmet of course).
You can try this
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 15
Agility: 24
Hit points: 50
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 0
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 5
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 100
Archery: 157
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
In my case it was hornbow and bec, but it was times when mw bec has 42 pierce damage, and arrows do not have peirce damage at all.
5 athletics is enough, if you wanna melee someone and hate kiting.
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Seems like being hybrid archer is not meant to work with the current system. Shame. :mad:
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Currently at 141 archery wpp, going for 155. I can shoot with 141 but that's because I developed a "feeling", has nothing to do with precision or croshair. It's most random feel and hoping that arrow won't steer too much to the sides.
Cupid is right about upkeep, it's quite high. I'm having troubles keeping it at zero. I do have MW Horn Bow, MW KAS, Lordly Gilded Hourglass Gauntlets, 2 stacks of bodkins and rest is non loomed pilgrim set. And I bleed gold.
Upkeep is similar to full Heraldic plate set with 15k weapon, like German Greatsword.
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So my next money-saving gen will be running around in cloth and wielding cheap ass weapons like practice sword or staff... :|
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I can recommend you 18/21, and 100 wpp in two categories of your choice (melee of course), wear armor pieces that cost bellow 200 gold each. You can try 21/18 also. Spawn with pitchfork or practice sword.
Stay out of trouble, try to survive as long as you can, pick MW weapon from the ground and then fight someone.
That way, you'll earn ~350k gold per gen.
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And Cupid is wrong about ath, you'll need at least 6 in order to survive. Actually seven ath is decent, 8 is desirable. Cav is your worst enemy and with little wpp you can't take them down with a bow because your horn bow is slow like pure archers longbow...
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nubs you need 0 athl. 8-)
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And Cupid is wrong about ath, you'll need at least 6 in order to survive. Actually seven ath is decent, 8 is desirable. Cav is your worst enemy and with little wpp you can't take them down with a bow because your horn bow is slow like pure archers longbow...
24 agi and 5 athletics is definitely better than 18 agi and 6 athletics. But cmon, I like when people suggesting about things that they are not experienced enough.
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Seems like being hybrid archer is not meant to work with the current system. Shame. :mad:
it works good imo, like i said only problem is the upkeep is an absolute joke.
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I roll hybrid archery. 18/18 with IF or shield or 19/19 -18/20 on 30 ( that one point misssing is a nightmare..)
6Ath
6PS
6PD
6WM
(4IF , shield . or +atrib)
Archery 150 ( to answer your question i think around 60 eWPF is kidna ok - remember each point in PD reduces it by 13 , also weight does that , detailed calculators can be found somewhere) - recomended horn bow
one handed/polearm/twohanded - 50
2h/pole or one hand -curently testing one hand flaged mace . Archery is a joke anyway unless u fight unarmored characters like in rageball, where it is very usefull.
As hybrid u'll always be missing smth . for 1h u need at least 7ath (that u wont get) for twohand/pole u need armor or wpf around 100-130 that u wont get. Armor will decrease your Effective WPF ( imo needs to be around 60 min. I was doing quite ok with Berdishe /or polearm and 6PS ,but lack of WPf init -50 causes delay in realising your swing ( i THINK gotta confirm this , based on observation - so u end up dead even if u release your swing first and do mouse acceleration on i- basicaly timing in a fight is much harder)
Imo bows should have speed of a BOW aka 70 that would be acceptable and WepMaster on higher values should give MORE points
then hybrid archery would be possible effective. I would suggest giving bows more accuracy but reduce dmg on body shots inexchange of increasing dmg on HEAD (skill rewarding)
to see how bad your DMG suck on archery check this calculator:
http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB/?go=archercalc
there was nice guide for archery showing acuracy tests that i cant find now . Even on lvl 35 building archery hybrid is very hard) and u'll get like 1/3 kills that ppl with twohand weps do. Targets they drop dead in 1-2 shots u need around 4-10 and u have to hit the mitigating /phasing targets and predict thier movment ( so latency is killer aditionally)