cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Emotion on July 22, 2012, 04:22:42 pm

Title: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Emotion on July 22, 2012, 04:22:42 pm: Take out knockdown on blunt weapons.
Knockdown is the same base thought process as polestun.
Take out polestun? Yes. Take out Knockdown? No? Unfair.
Take out knockdown. I get knocked down 3/5 hits from a blunt weapons. And that constitutes a free hit nearly every time.

Sooooo yes or no... take out knockdown or not?
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Ptolemy on July 22, 2012, 04:33:56 pm: Knockdown is often just 1 or 2 free hits, and generally causes your death unless you're a massive tin can. I can understand why some weapons would have knockdown, but the ones that make sense also have crush through, so knockdown isn't necessary.

Frankly I think that crush through should be removed and knockdown should replace it (but still knockdown when overhead is blocked), then blunt weapons that don't cause crush through should have knockdown removed. I personally think this would be a lot more balanced for the game.

A stick having knockdown for example, is stupid. Damn iron staff.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Miwiw on July 22, 2012, 04:43:21 pm: Removing knock down, crush through and more just makes all weapons be the same. I wouldn't even have removed polestagger if the decision was up to me. There have to be differences between weapons, the more the better.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 22, 2012, 04:46:35 pm: Quote from: Miwiw99 on July 22, 2012, 04:43:21 pm
Removing knock down, crush through and more just makes all weapons be the same. I wouldn't even have removed polestagger if the decision was up to me. There have to be differences between weapons, the more the better.
yep this makes weapons special and give them the tick to chose them
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Gurnisson on July 22, 2012, 04:50:25 pm: Why would people use maces then?

Everything > Maces if you remove knockdown
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Rhekimos on July 22, 2012, 04:51:10 pm: Quote from: Miwiw99 on July 22, 2012, 04:43:21 pm
Removing knock down, crush through and more just makes all weapons be the same. I wouldn't even have removed polestagger if the decision was up to me. There have to be differences between weapons, the more the better.

This. Removing knockdown removes yet another tactical element from the game. And turns maces into slow and stubby swords.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: sF_Guardian on July 22, 2012, 04:51:21 pm: Next step to the army of Kuyakclones with German GS ?!

(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Emotion on July 22, 2012, 04:51:46 pm: Blunt damage is better than cut though.
That's the difference.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Gurnisson on July 22, 2012, 04:53:42 pm: Quote from: Emotion on July 22, 2012, 04:51:46 pm
Blunt damage is better than cut though.
That's the difference.

Explain to me, why would anyone use a mace instead of a pick if you remove knockdown?

If you buff them but remove knockdown they'll just be different looking picks. Boring
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Vodner on July 22, 2012, 04:59:10 pm: Something less random than knockdown would be nice. Maybe greatly increased benefit from speed bonus, or increased armor penetration (above the bonus provided by blunt damage).
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: sF_Guardian on July 22, 2012, 05:00:14 pm: Quote from: Vodner on July 22, 2012, 04:59:10 pm
Something less random than knockdown would be nice. Greatly increased benefit from speed bonus, or increased armor penetration (above the bonus provided by blunt damage) would be nice.

Nah, current system is fine and battleproven, no need to change it, even if a Bar Mace spammer can be painfull :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 22, 2012, 05:19:43 pm: Quote from: Emotion on July 22, 2012, 04:51:46 pm
Blunt damage is better than cut though.
That's the difference.
It may be the best damage but the blunt weapon is very small what means they are balanced just the mauls have much blunt and they are slow as hell so its balanced !
Merci
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Miwiw on July 22, 2012, 05:30:41 pm: It has to be random, that is the only fair way.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 22, 2012, 05:31:48 pm: Quote from: Miwiw99 on July 22, 2012, 05:30:41 pm
It has to be random, that is the only fair way.
So greatswords with knockdown?
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Miwiw on July 22, 2012, 05:35:17 pm: No. The knockdown chance has to be random. How can a Greatsword knock someone down if you only use to stab people or use the sides to cut into them?
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 22, 2012, 05:36:22 pm: Quote from: Miwiw99 on July 22, 2012, 05:35:17 pm
No. The knockdown chance has to be random. How can a Greatsword knock someone down if you only use to stab people or use the sides to cut into them?
sry for the troll post :oops: :oops: :oops:
but in real life it would be possible if they used the side of the blade but no i dont want that ingame -.-
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 22, 2012, 05:50:37 pm: No, it's a cool feature.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Emotion on July 22, 2012, 05:59:24 pm: Then why was polestun removed?
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Malaclypse on July 22, 2012, 06:11:12 pm: Quote from: Emotion on July 22, 2012, 05:59:24 pm
Then why was polestun removed?

Relentless lobbying mostly. Most polearms still work fine without it, it was only really a huge selling point on Spears which are now in need of a decent buff to sideswings at the least.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Rhekimos on July 22, 2012, 06:11:22 pm: Quote from: Emotion on July 22, 2012, 05:59:24 pm
Then why was polestagger removed?

You should ask the developers that. Unlike knockdown, all polearms got the ability which was seen as a support weapon property. And they didn't like the main battle polearms, that pushed into 2h territory, having it so they removed it from all polearms. Or that's what I think.

As a result we get 13/27 builds as the optimal piker as they can stab you and quickly run out of reach again, compensating for the previous polestagger.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Zerran on July 23, 2012, 11:17:28 am: I say either remove it, or change it so it's not random. For example, if you get hit in the legs while backpeddling or attacking (weapon being chambered, held, or swinging) you get knocked down if hit by a "knockdown" tagged weapon.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Toodles on July 23, 2012, 01:54:29 pm: How about a requirement for hitting the legs in order to knockdown? Less randomness, more skill involved. Thoughts?

(then again, this would make little sense when it comes to mauls which should knock down just as much as they currently do - maces however, why not?)
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Miwiw on July 23, 2012, 02:08:31 pm: Well, if you get a hit to the head you're getting knocked out as well.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on July 23, 2012, 02:37:00 pm: Keep knockdown. Keep arrowstun. Add polestagger.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: sF_Guardian on July 23, 2012, 03:10:01 pm: Quote from: Grumpy_Nic on July 23, 2012, 02:37:00 pm
Keep knockdown. Keep arrowstun. Add polestagger.

Add stagger on Pikes, Spears and other support weapons again, playin Hoplite
got harder due to its removal.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Emotion on July 23, 2012, 05:04:44 pm: Quote from: sF_Guardian on July 23, 2012, 03:10:01 pm
Add stagger on Pikes, Spears and other support weapons again, playin Hoplite
got harder due to its removal.

+1 but don't add it to pikes.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Konrax on July 23, 2012, 06:49:38 pm: Is it possible to add polestagger to only one weapon type, such as blunt?

If you can I would suggest doing that as well as making the chance for knockdown 1/2 as likely (and 100% likely to face shots imho)

Blunt weapons were meant to be the armour piercing utility weapons, picks are fast and cut armour up.

I think it would make blunt a more viable weapon choice if it staggered on hits more often then knocking an enemy down, they are slow, short, and do less damage then pierce weapons (raw damage) so it would make sense.

Maybe it can be done as a new ability added to weapons called "Stagger" which could be returned to certain polearms and hammers (as an excuse to reduce knockdown chance).

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 23, 2012, 07:27:33 pm: Well I personally agree with the OP...why was polestagger removed but knockdown remains? Seems like the same type of effect to me.

I think polearms are still good weapons without it, but I always thought it was meant to be the representation of polearms typically being used to hook and pull the opponents limbs and weapon.

I still like my polearms even without polestagger, but it seems like if you're going to remove one, you should remove both.

Also the arrow stagger should be removed as well to be consistent.

Or just bring back polestagger and leave the game mechanics alone, and stop listening to all the QQ'ers in the forum.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 23, 2012, 08:17:27 pm: Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on July 23, 2012, 07:27:33 pm
Or just bring back polestagger and leave the game mechanics alone, and stop listening to all the QQ'ers in the forum.
Your title suits you sir.
Polestagger was retarded on everything but a few spears (the long ones, not warspear, thank god that's gone)/pikes.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on July 23, 2012, 08:19:46 pm: I find that if you block the weapon, you don't get knocked down.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 23, 2012, 08:29:41 pm: Quote from: Froto_the_Loc on July 23, 2012, 08:19:46 pm
I find that if you block the weapon, you don't get knocked down.

I found if you blocked the polearm, you didn't get staggered.

I have no problem with polestagger being removed, but the dev's should be consistent.

How does that make me a shit poster zilch? How many times have you agreed with what I've said? You can disagree with something someone is saying, and still respect the person. It's not like what I'm saying is completely crazy. Just asking for some consistency from the dev's. It's long been my opinion that the game is very well balanced, and no major nerfs/buffs or changes to the gameplay mechanics are needed. But it seems like if enough people bitch and complain then the dev's or balance team cave in and nerf something.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 23, 2012, 08:43:42 pm: Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on July 23, 2012, 08:29:41 pm
It's not like what I'm saying is completely crazy.
But, you're saying "Bring back polestagger"...
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 23, 2012, 09:03:08 pm: Quote from: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 23, 2012, 08:43:42 pm
But, you're saying "Bring back polestagger"...

I'm saying there was no reason to remove it if they were going to leave things in like the 2h stab animation (being 80 length, the longest animation in the game), or leaving arrow stagger, or leaving knockdown. if they are going to remove it, they should remove all these other wonky mechanics at the same time to be consistent.

I personally don't mind it being gone but at the same time I didn't think it made much difference to leave it in the game. I never got an extra hit on someone when they got staggered, and I never got hit twice by someone because they staggered me. Sure when I staggered someone or got staggered then teammates would get a "free" hit in, but I don't think it would have been much different than if they got hit with any weapon and were temporarily staggered (every weapon "staggers" people, just that polestagger and arrow stagger effects lasted longer).

I don't see a justifiable reason it was removed other than people bitching and complaining about it. But my standpoint still remains, the game is pretty well balanced, no nerfs/buffs or game play mechanic changes need to be made to balance the classes. When someone cries about something being OP, it almost always is because they weren't using the right tactics, equipment, or teamwork to overcome the problem.
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Digglez on July 23, 2012, 09:42:58 pm: OP is just another bland 2h rage hero who cant stand when people kill him with 'op' weapons..that happen to be slower, less range (usually half) and do less damage.

remove knockdown and instead give us a host of other effects for blunt force trauma

* Damage over time, increases/accelerates whenever enemy player moves or takes an action
* Temporary debuff to enemy WPF, PS/PD/PT AND STR
Yep, hit someone and temporarily reduce their STR, lowering their maximum hit points and making them easier to kill.

* Make armor ablative and blunt damage reduces armor effectiveness until that player respawns. Get hit by a 29b military hammer and lose 1/4~ of your armor's effectiveness
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on July 23, 2012, 09:47:30 pm: Polestagger was on every polearm and was a % chance of any hit that dealt damage. Knockdown is on a handfull of weapons that are balanced around the knockdown, and is effected by strength and weapon weight. I hope everyone can see the difference between these things.

Also, I don't think +80 is accurate on 2h stabs. Everyone has been quoting this number for the past year or so, but didn't the bonus get changed when they changed the stab animation?
Title: Re: Blunt Weapon Knockdown.
Post by: Jarlek on July 23, 2012, 10:09:17 pm: Remove knockdown but every time a blunt weapon hits you your skull/bones break and you lost 18 STR and 18 AGI and 6 of all skills.

They can also be reduced to a negative amount (-15 STR or AGI and -6 ATHL/PS/Whatev)