cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: warpoobz on April 05, 2011, 01:27:41 am

Title: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: warpoobz on April 05, 2011, 01:27:41 am
Hello gentlemen and women, I am looking for a tin can guide. More specifically, I am looking for a guide that will maximize my defenses to the maximum maximitude. I want to wear the heaviest steel armor, I want to hold that delicious steel shield. I want to run around for enemies to break their weapons upon me—while I express to them my innermost feelings concerning their mothers and/or family pets. I want to use my sword once in a while, but mostly I am looking for a guide that can help me tin can correctly.

Please aid me, friends.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Cyclopsided on April 05, 2011, 01:36:11 am
I am not so sure Plate armor + steel shield being viable.
Heavy armor + 2hander/Polearm works with the longer weapons
Light/medium armor + steel shield & 1 hander works
But when you put Full plate + steel shield there are a couple problems.
1. You won't be able to afford to do that except on rare occasions.
2. Plate armor will slow you down too much if you are also using the slower heavy steel shield. Your attack speed and movement speed would be hindered way too much to be fully effective in combat.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: warpoobz on April 05, 2011, 01:48:22 am
Isn't that what athletics and weapon proficiency's for? I've seen people run around with the equipment I've mentioned and they look so joyful... Really I am interested in the recommended stat and skill builds for the aforementioned equipment. No matter how ineffective it may be, it looks damn fun.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Cyclopsided on April 05, 2011, 02:04:56 am
Isn't that what athletics and weapon proficiency's for? I've seen people run around with the equipment I've mentioned and they look so joyful... Really I am interested in the recommended stat and skill builds for the aforementioned equipment. No matter how ineffective it may be, it looks damn fun.
Well, to equip Plate armor you're going to need 15 strength minimum.
You want steel shield + plate armor? Well, If you want it, here is the fastest and likely most effective build for it.

Quote
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    * Strength: 15
    * Agility: 21
    * Hit points: 56

    * Converted: 2
    * Ironflesh: 3
    * Power Strike: 5
    * Shield: 7
    * Athletics: 7
    * Riding: 0
    * Horse Archery: 0
    * Power Draw: 0
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 7

    * One Handed: 164
    * Two Handed: 1
    * Polearm: 1
    * Archery: 1
    * Crossbow: 1
    * Throwing: 1
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: warpoobz on April 05, 2011, 02:10:08 am
Thank you! Though if what you say about efficiency is true, I'll probably GTX the character eventually.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Cyclopsided on April 05, 2011, 02:19:47 am
Yeah, you are going to be much slower when you have plate armor on as a shielder. A lot slower.
The build is a solid build though; Just don't always use heavy armor on it and it will be a blast. It is a solid 1hander build.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Penitent on April 05, 2011, 06:27:07 pm
I heard that if you are going to wear heavy armor, IF is a good stat to have.  You will last much longer.

You might have to sacrifice ATH for it though.   You could personify the term "turtle" in endurance and speed. :)
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Phazey on April 05, 2011, 06:41:20 pm
Marathon's build is exactly what i'd recommend. But if you want the heaviest armor, you'll need 16 strength. In that case, go 18/18 instead:
(click to show/hide)
Has a bit more hitpoints, which is nice together with that high armor you'll be wearing.

Word of warning though: heavy armor is very expensive to maintain. The repair costs will force you to use light armor a lot. Unless you have a few hundred thousand gold stashed away, you won't be able to afford that heavy armor very long...
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Wallace on April 05, 2011, 07:12:38 pm
U do realize that you will be slow and useless that spammers are going to roflstomp you
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Sean_Drew on April 05, 2011, 07:48:04 pm
U do realize that you will be slow and useless that spammers are going to roflstomp you

Teamplay could be the solution.

If you want to play a hard tincan ( a little slow ) , try to stick together with some teammates. With your shield you could take some attention on you and if the enemy hits on you ( your shield ) , your mates ( maybe some 2h too ) have easier play to kill them. If the enemy turn around to your mates , hit them hard ! ;-)

The costs could be very high, but buy some sets to change. If you have 3x+ Bonus take your heavy stuff , if 1or2x take light to medium armor.

But it will take a while to have some sets .... maybe start with 2 sets.

Shield : The Steelshield could brake very fast too, if the enemy has a "bonus against shield weapon". Try some shields with high hitpoints ( about 400+ ) too. ( Better against shieldbreaker )
I have enjoyed the steel buckler for a while. It has high body armor of 60. Arrows could not brake it. Swords can hit on it for an hour .... but than came this axe wielding freak ( i think it was someone with Tor in his name ;-) ) .... in the 2nd hit on my fresh started shield it breaks my buckler. Yes it blocked only 1 hit ! After the second it was crushed to pieces ... 60 or 70 body armor is not all. Hitpoints counts when there is a shieldbreaker hitting you.
Maybe search for a good allround shield, like the 410 hitpoints heater shield ( the one which costs 3156 ). Its not so expensive too, and not so heavy. Not so good against arrows, swords , but better against axes !


Have fun !

Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Dravic on April 05, 2011, 09:14:32 pm
Sean, few questions.

1. Shield skill, when that guy broke your buckler in 1 hit?
2. Do you know, that buckler has a "little" bit less HP then other shields? Steel shield with 8+ shield skill and it would block a lot more hits...
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Casimir on April 05, 2011, 09:22:37 pm
Get plate, heirloom 3 times, get long maul, heirloom three times, rage at archers, end.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Magikarp on April 05, 2011, 10:06:20 pm
Get plate, heirloom 3 times, get long maul, heirloom three times, rage at archers, end.
You did that THe Boss Mannn?

Anyways, here's my guide on tincans:

- Put on plate.
- Block first blow
- Spam
- Now your opponent should be dead
       -If not: spam moar
       -If you are dead: you suck
- Win
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Tor! on April 06, 2011, 01:33:58 am
Shield : The Steelshield could brake very fast too, if the enemy has a "bonus against shield weapon". Try some shields with high hitpoints ( about 400+ ) too. ( Better against shieldbreaker )
I have enjoyed the steel buckler for a while. It has high body armor of 60. Arrows could not brake it. Swords can hit on it for an hour .... but than came this axe wielding freak ( i think it was someone with Tor in his name ;-) ) .... in the 2nd hit on my fresh started shield it breaks my buckler. Yes it blocked only 1 hit ! After the second it was crushed to pieces ...

Iam sorry about your buckler, but its my job to break shields! As a shieldbreaker there is only one shield I have problems breaking - a 3 times heirloomed huscarl shield used with 7 shield skill - Kinngrimm uses it. Getting a shield triple heirloomed takes alot of time tho, so I would suggest doing like alot of the SeaRaiders and use the heavy round shield because of its nice balance between speed and survivability. Avoid axes if you can, they will break almost every shield very fast. And if you really want to be 1h / shield, medium armor should suffice, anything over will just slow you down to much without alot of benefit.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Sean_Drew on April 06, 2011, 01:51:05 am
Sean, few questions.

1. Shield skill, when that guy broke your buckler in 1 hit?
2. Do you know, that buckler has a "little" bit less HP then other shields? Steel shield with 8+ shield skill and it would block a lot more hits...

Hey Dravic !

1. Shield skill was 7. He broke it at the second hit .... the first it blocks. At second hit it crushes.
2 Yes i know , that a buckler has less hp than other shields, but i used it cause of 60 body armor and only 2,5 weight. Was real good all the time. Like i wrote nearly nothing broke it. Tons of arrows , and it shows no little crack. 2h swords nearly no damage. BUT this great 2h axe ... dont know if it was a pole or 2h , crushed it with the second swing. And no one hit it before this round. This thing looked like a Great Long Axe ( Pole ) , or Great Axe ( 2h ). Something like this. Just ask Tor what he uses for a weapon.
And the buckler has about half of the hitpoints like the steel shield. And like i tested before , the steel shield breaks in 5 hits from such an axe. You can believe me, i have tested many many shields. I tested them against all things of weapons. And against such axes , shields with high hitpoints are better. A heavy board shield take 8 or 9 hits from such a weapon until it breaks. So i decided to go for a medium solution. The 410 hp heater. It takes more hits from shield breakers , like the steel shield, and is not so heavy/slow. But bolts and arrows damage it, like sword hits too. But all the last rounds my shield was not broken at round end. And even against axes it could be in one piece , if i get the axe wielder after some hits. Not with the steel shield. Axes kill this shield fast. Very fast. Especially if wielded by Tor ;-) I think this was his name. If it was something like a 3 times heirloomed Great Long Axe , it would make 52 cut damage normal, plus his run and swing speed , plus my run speed into his direction .... plus bonus against shields .... makes ..... BOOOOOOOM .... ;-) Maybe this guy was it too , at the duel server, when i tested shields. I searched for great axe wielders in this test. Possible he was the same. But i can say the fur shield was much better in this case , and this thing has only 5 body armor ( but 600 hitpoints ) , against the 69 ba of the steel shield ( and 225 hitpoints ) . I tested Board shields , my heater shield also against this weapon. All better than steel. But if it comes to normal damage , nothing is better than steel. Even the little buckler was great. I had so many arrows in this little thing. Crazy , they should pass it normally , but it catches them ;-) And takes no damage also. This little thing was nearly undestroyable. ... nearly .... until the axe wielder came ;-)

And believe me, the Steel shield for 10422 Gold blocks only double time better than the little buckler, when it comes to a fight against hard axe players, i would say about 5 hits. Then its gone. Better get the 7700 Buckler, if you like steel. It weights about 10 less ( 2,5/12 ) and is nearly the same body armor 60/69.


Have Fun ! :-)


Edit : Oh .... hey Tor ! Yeah ....  i thin it was a fight against you .... i tested , how my little buckler would work against your axe ..... but it breaks so fast ;-)

I would like to hear what weapon you wielded against my little buckler ? 3 times heiloomed Great Long Axe ? :-)
You wrote while i wrote my last text ;-) We wrote at the same time :-) And say to Dravic how fast you brake steel shields .... i think he don´t believe me ;-)

Edit2 : My 410 hitpoint heater is 1 time heirloomed .... but the other 2 will come soon ;-) The buckler was mainly a test which shield i will heirloome. I took the heater , not the buckler or steel shield ;-) I think hitpoints are better against shield breaker , than body armor of the shield.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Tor! on April 06, 2011, 02:35:51 am
Yes, its 3 times heirloomed great long axe with 6 powerstrike. Does its job nicely  :wink:
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Keshian on April 06, 2011, 04:29:50 am
Correct me if I am wrong but the armor of a shield is like armor on a person, it decreases the damage done to the shield, however when a weapon has a bonus against shields it ignores the armor of the shield, therefore low hit point shields break faster to things like axes, but high hitpoint shields with less armor take more damage from things like arrows because of the reduced armor.  Personally you might want to consider the triple heirloomed fur covered shield, nothing says barbarian like a 700 hit point shield covered in fur.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Cyclopsided on April 06, 2011, 06:17:09 am
Correct me if I am wrong but the armor of a shield is like armor on a person, it decreases the damage done to the shield, however when a weapon has a bonus against shields it ignores the armor of the shield, therefore low hit point shields break faster to things like axes, but high hitpoint shields with less armor take more damage from things like arrows because of the reduced armor.  Personally you might want to consider the triple heirloomed fur covered shield, nothing says barbarian like a 700 hit point shield covered in fur.
Wrong. I'll explain...

Bonus to shield is a 2x Multiplier to damage when striking shields. That is all -- However that is more than you think it is just by hearing it.
Mathematically speaking though, since the damage is raised it will negate the armor at a Higher percentage of its damage dealt. This can make axes MORE useful for higher armor shields than lower armor shields -- But still super useful always. Always.

Example 1: Hit a fur covered shield for 50 damage with no bonus, let's say 8 damage is negated by armor and 42 is absorbed by shield HP. With a bonus to shield multiplier that is now 100 damage, 8 still negated by armor and 92 damage absorbed by the shield. Since it has such High HP it will still last a long long time, but it will last roughly half as long as normal when struck by a bonus to shield weapon.

Example 2: Hit a steel shield which negates 50 damage.  You hit it for 60 damage with a 2 handed sword and do 10 damage to it's HP only. Now say you hit for 60 damage from a shield bonus weapon for a total of 120 damage. 50 negated damage leaves 70 damage still dealt to the shield's HP. Since it has a low amount of HP, it won't last very long to a high damage axe. In this example, an axe does 7 times more damage than a non shield bonus weapon, due to having more damage negate the armor's effectiveness.

No, This is not the exact math, nor the amount of damage negated by the armor presented. There are lots of variables on armor effectiveness, damage, etc in a normal game that I am not going to bother adding. Many of which are randomly generated effectivenesses per strike and stuff.

*due to heirlooming effects, I'd loom a steel shield, huscarl, or knightly heater since it raises shield armor on them even higher. Shield armor has exponential increasing effectiveness, not a simple linear increase to effectiveness which HP provides.
Title: Re: Looking for a Tin Can Guide
Post by: Sean_Drew on April 06, 2011, 02:36:03 pm
Wrong. I'll explain...

Bonus to shield is a 2x Multiplier to damage when striking shields. That is all -- However that is more than you think it is just by hearing it.
Mathematically speaking though, since the damage is raised it will negate the armor at a Higher percentage of its damage dealt. This can make axes MORE useful for higher armor shields than lower armor shields -- But still super useful always. Always.

Example 1: Hit a fur covered shield for 50 damage with no bonus, let's say 8 damage is negated by armor and 42 is absorbed by shield HP. With a bonus to shield multiplier that is now 100 damage, 8 still negated by armor and 92 damage absorbed by the shield. Since it has such High HP it will still last a long long time, but it will last roughly half as long as normal when struck by a bonus to shield weapon.

Example 2: Hit a steel shield which negates 50 damage.  You hit it for 60 damage with a 2 handed sword and do 10 damage to it's HP only. Now say you hit for 60 damage from a shield bonus weapon for a total of 120 damage. 50 negated damage leaves 70 damage still dealt to the shield's HP. Since it has a low amount of HP, it won't last very long to a high damage axe. In this example, an axe does 7 times more damage than a non shield bonus weapon, due to having more damage negate the armor's effectiveness.

No, This is not the exact math, nor the amount of damage negated by the armor presented. There are lots of variables on armor effectiveness, damage, etc in a normal game that I am not going to bother adding. Many of which are randomly generated effectivenesses per strike and stuff.

*due to heirlooming effects, I'd loom a steel shield, huscarl, or knightly heater since it raises shield armor on them even higher. Shield armor has exponential increasing effectiveness, not a simple linear increase to effectiveness which HP provides.

Hm .... i really doubt if this "x2 damage - body armor" is right ...
Why ? If this were right a Huscarl would break faster than a steel shield ( against shield breaker ) , and i don´t think , that it would go like that.


And @ Tor : Yes your huge Long Axe does it´s Job very, very nicely ;-) Next time i try to make some great circles around you  ;-) Or better run besides, or behind you if you are on my team ;-) But not in your swing range ;-)

And @ all : No matter what you choose .... choose what makes you the most fun !!!