cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Malaclypse on July 15, 2012, 06:29:18 am
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Agility: Governs the use of shields via Shield, horses via Riding.
Strength: Governs the ability to use bows via Power Draw, throwing weapons via Power Throw; directly relates to the use of all melee weapons, crossbows, and armor based on actual value of Strength.
Make agility more relevant. My proposal towards this end is to make either armors or melee weapons require agility as part of a dual requirement intertwined with Strength (for example, the Nomad Robe which requires 7 Strength could also require 7 agility, or the agility requirement could be fractional of it's strength counterpart). I don't know how exactly to go about changing this, but feel that as it stands now, Strength holds too much of a monopoly in terms of the ability to use weapons and armor for no apparent reason in terms of game balance and only really holds water under some semblance of a "realism" argument (the physical stature required to actually hold up the armor or weapon in question).
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I am agaisnt it because I couldn't play with any items I currently use with the build I like.
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I am agaisnt it because I couldn't play with any items I currently use with the build I like.
lol
i agree with you malaclypse....it is weird
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Why the lol, I thinks its a pretty valid, I wouldn't that change to be taking place, because I wouldn't enjoy the game as much as I do right now.
And all the looms I have would be useless to be me.
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the new wpf curve will be enough to make agi more relevant imo
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I agree...mostly. It makes sense that some gear should have agility requirements but I don't think that all gear should have agility requirements. Mauls, cleavers, axes etc. I wouldn't mind seeing agility on finesse weapons like the weaboo sword though and I'm not sure how I would like it applied to the current list of armors.
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Perhaps something like, make armor have both strength and agility requirements.
A character can wear all armor, however they get penalties if they don't have the stat requirements, relative to the level of the requirement compared to their own stat level.
So, if you have 3 agility and the armor requires 15, you have a very heavy penalty. However, if you have 18 agility and the armor requires 21, you get only a slight penalty. Same with strength.
With real combat you try to move into blows such that they strike more well protected areas, and do so in such a way that they glance off (or at least have, as M&B terms it, less of a speed bonus), so agility could be used to determine how well a character can use their armor's most well protected areas.
The way I would like to see this done would be:
-Too little strength would mean a movement penalty, as well as a slight penalty to how much protection the armor gives.
-Too little agility would mean a penalty to how much protection the armor gives and a small movement penalty.
Different armors would have different requirements depending on the type of armor.
For example, with full plate it really doesn't matter where you get hit, it's all plate, so the agility requirement would be very low, but it would have a higher strength requirement.
On the other hand armor like the Black Armor, or Lamellar Vests only provide partial protection, so they would have a higher agility requirement, but a lower strength requirement.
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Imho I think each point of agility should reduce the total weight of a character for movement purposes by a 1-1 ratio.
Secondly I think that weapon master should also reduce the weight of a character by a 1-1 ratio for the effects of swing speed.
Although suggestion 2 might be unnecessary given that the wpf curve might be changed.
Agility is missing some inherent advantage like what strength has that plays a real role in a fight.
Before people start freaking out about agility plate wearing crazy fast dudes.... they still die in 2 shots instead of 1 if they wear plate so... a 11IF strength build with plate is far more tough to deal with that an agility plate guy
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Instead of changing existing weapons, I think an introduction of new Agi requirement weapons would make sense. (ie. Flail) Even if they are just Agi required examples of already existing weapons.
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Flails are impossible to do in normal Warband, don't know if its do-able with WSE.
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Flails are impossible to do in normal Warband, don't know if its do-able with WSE.
Even if it's possible, it would take a TON of work, just for a single weapon.
Not saying I wouldn't like to see a flail, but personally I'd rather they spend that massive amount of time doing something else. Like improving strat.
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The armor crutching that has been going on in NA ridiculous nowadays.
I am definitely all for a agi requirement or at least make it so people that wear super heavy armor can't jump around like a monkey.
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The armor crutching that has been going on in NA ridiculous nowadays.
I am definitely all for a agi requirement or at least make it so people that wear super heavy armor can't jump around like a monkey.
This couldn't possibly be directed at me, could it? :lol:
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High athletics -> wear light armor
High strength -> wear heaviest armor possible
Currently I'm playing full str build and I'm wearing cloth armor. It's just stupid, because you're not much faster than full plate str crutcher, actually I think movement speed is the same.
On the other hand, if you have high ath skill, anything heavier than kuyak will have high impact on your speed and you'll end up being semi fast while not packing a punch. Better than full str in cloth, but still wasted potential.
Str crutcher in full plate is actually better than agi build in leather because stats only have impact on four movement directions. Turning around isn't controlled by stats, that depends on mouse sensitivity. That's probably the reason why they slowed down turning rate with chambered weapons. You still can turn just as fine but you have to time your holds and attacks. Turning is still great defensive move, shielders surrounded by enemy team can force teamhits because of silly turning speed (mouse sensitivity to the max).
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I agree, AGI needs to be any use for something. Currently STR is more important. As Archer I decide what bow I use -> amount of STR. Horn Bow at least 15 STR -> Rest in AGI. Just an example.
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I think it would be really cool to see AGI plate melee guys in the mix of it too.
Why is it that strength gets a HUGE advantage from plate while AGI really gets gimped because of it.
AGI builds will still die in 1-2 shots, just not the lucky swings from random smallarms
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Add chance to stumble and fall down when backpedaling similar to one in Brytenwalda. The chance is related to amount of athletics. 1 has pretty big chance where as somewhere 7 very little. Much rage would ensue.
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Just buff the effect that agi and ath have on movement speed when wearing armour. Simple.
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Higher athletics recieve less penalties from walking up gradients. Pow.
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For example, with full plate it really doesn't matter where you get hit, it's all plate, so the agility requirement would be very low, but it would have a higher strength requirement.
On the other hand armor like the Black Armor, or Lamellar Vests only provide partial protection, so they would have a higher agility requirement, but a lower strength requirement.
Makes absolutely no sense at all. Lamellar armor has a higher degree of movement than plate armor. If anything, armor should REDUCE effective agility by a much higher degree
Someone with 3agi should actually turn their character slower, limit weapon release rotation degrees MORE, poorer weapon arcs, slower draw/sheath weapon times, slower feints and block recovery times, etc
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Makes absolutely no sense at all. Lamellar armor has a higher degree of movement than plate armor. If anything, armor should REDUCE effective agility by a much higher degree
Someone with 3agi should actually turn their character slower, limit weapon release rotation degrees MORE, poorer weapon arcs, slower draw/sheath weapon times, slower feints and block recovery times, etc
Yes, it has a higher degree of movement than plate, but it also requires a higher degree of proficiency with making blows land in the correct locations. If you don't get hit on that vest, all you've got is a padded shirt. In plate, whether you get hit in the arm, the chest, the leg, whatever, it's plate, so you don't need to worry nearly as much about trying to maneuver around the blow. Hence why agility would have the penalty to armor, while strength has the penalty to movement.
You need to be able to move well in order to fully utilize partial armor like those I mentioned. In plate, you don't need to be able to move nearly as well to make full use of it.
The movement penalty on agility I mentioned was something I was thinking to be very small (like .2% or less per lacking point of agility) and was mostly there for combat situations on the realism basis that if you don't have the agility to properly use your equipment, you'd have to spend more effort on moving defensively, and would have less concentration to put into footwork. Anyway, just scratch that part if you don't like it.
The main point of the suggestion was to promote more balanced builds, and to give penalties to extreme builds (particularly extremely high strength). As odd as it may sound with me being in KUTT, I'm not fond of full strength build characters. Discussions of skill and whatnot completely aside, it's just a hell of a lot more fun to fight someone who has a balanced build.
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Realism, heh...
My current build is the proof that there is no realism in cRPG.