I've been seeing more and more complaints about cavalry buffness and "Cav OP" / "Cav Nerf" threads.
There are becoming increasingly larger amounts ofavalry in our servers. Sometmes around 10-15 per team on a full server.
There is only one solution ...
BuffarcheryXbows
There is only one solution ...
Work together.
Admittedly though, having more city maps would be really nice. Having to spend the whole time in battle looking behind oneself is rather annoying.
There is only one solution ...
Work together.
HA/ HX is way too weak
A thousand times no.
Crossbow damage is unaffected by wpf, just a minor point.
it will affect your reloading speed + accuracy
Last days at battle servers cav is always on top of scoreboard.
Yes it does boost accuracy and reload, but not damage. Maybe you get better chances in the random number generator but it doesn't boost damage in the classical straightforward way wpf boosts damage for other weapons.
3) Rangers feed on cavalry.
Unarmored horses die in 2 shots.
4) Pikemen (and competent 2handers) feed on cavalry.
Sooner or later people will learn to carry a pike.
Maybe its time to allow to carry a pike in your pocket? Not very realistic, but swinging a huge axe like a pencil or feint-spam-swing-stab with a greatsword(and many other things) are physically impossible and are in the game as well, so why not sheath-able pikes like it always had been (and in native still is).
5) Remove horse-knockdown. Its ridiculious that an unarmored horse with the incredible speed of about 1 mph can circle around and knockdown a man in full armor. Some sort of stagger/ stun would be all right, but knockdown is ridiculous.
Riding your courser into a group of infantry should always lead to your death, no matter how competent the footmen are.
A thousand times no.
HA have always been a natural counter to cav. Guess what happens when HA gets nerfed into the ground time after time :)
Lies.
No. Im polearmer and I like that not everyone is carrying a pike as backup.
Seems you have never seen a horse in real life. If you manage to charge with a horse in a group of people, most of them would get thrown somewhere and get wounded.
Re: Cav seems OP? How to fix this?
REMOVE THEIR LEGS!
Horse legs are very hard to shoot you dumbass, that's meant for melee.
Not if you're not a high accuracy, low damage build. And pitchfork peasants...
Knowing a bit about the class helps.
And pitchfork peasants...
And pitchfork peasants...
And pitchfork peasants...
And pitchfork peasants...
And pitchfork peasants...
But teamwork is rare when working with pubs since there isn't a formation or looking out for others thing going on. People want their kills and want the glory more than they do working with others.[/spoiler]
And pitchfork peasants...
I still think if you made throwing weapons explode on impact this whole problem would disappear!
So what's the problem? The problem is THE NUMBER OF CAV PLAYERS ON A SERVER AT A TIME, when a team have like 25 cavmen at a time, teamwork is useless as you'll be getting raped by horses on every direction, constantly bumped, and pikes are not a fix for that, every veteran player knows it as we've suffered/succeded on each side. Also, the awful autobalance system, that doesn't take into account your "class" when balancing, doesn't help at all.
So, the only thing that's needed to be fixed is that. Just cap the number of cav players allowed to spawn to 10-15% of total players on a team and problem solved (with a horse in their equipment, they could spawn without it) ...
That's the gayest suggestion ever. Tons of butthurt melee foot kids have proposed the same with archers/HX/HA and cav as you just did and it's fail because you would basically make it impossible for players to play their classes just because uber race melee'ers wants to circle jerk eachother.
1st: you seem to be calling a proposal "gay" just because you don't like it. Look into your brain man, maybe showing your repressed in-thoughts? ... please, be a little more serious when trying to argument ... you have no arguments at all, while i argumented my opinion ...
Yes, it's neccesary not to let people choose and play at their will with AN OP CLASS, REMEMBER.
Just to put an example, in those 1st person shooters that you can take vehicles, you have to gain access to the vehicle first, and there are just a few of them on the fields, SO NOT EVERYONE USES THEM. If you could spawn with a helicopter or a tank, every player would do it, because on foot, you are meat. So they put a few and scattered through the map, so the player have to win access to them, and you have players on foot everytime in-game, on normal multiplayer game modes and maps.
So a horse is a huge advantage, and as a huge advantage, there should be just a few of them on the field. Another option is that no player spawn with a horse, and in each team there is a fixed amount of "free horses" that players can mount.
What is clear now, is that the mod allows you to play a favored-class with near to no sacrifice at all (excepting upkeep, which is not, by all terms, a huge sacrifice).
Since i'm not in the mood or have time to argue with a melee elitist i will just say one thing.
FUCK OFF.
Thank you.
Plese, lets be analystic.
Cav is OP, everyone knows it, and it MUST BE OP. That's why men started riding horses on combat ... it they weren't OP, they would have left horses for the countrywork. They need a few tweaks, like cavmen getting damage when horse die and they fell 10 meters long, or the excessive, outstanding maneuvrability of the sarranid horses, or getting damage from stomping into a wall (these aren't nerfs, as they have no effect on a "proper" cavman, that doesn't go suiciding into walls or great groups to fall soon) ... but just minor tweaks, the way they work is the way they should.
So what's the problem? The problem is THE NUMBER OF CAV PLAYERS ON A SERVER AT A TIME, when a team have like 25 cavmen at a time, teamwork is useless as you'll be getting raped by horses on every direction, constantly bumped, and pikes are not a fix for that, every veteran player knows it as we've suffered/succeded on each side. Also, the awful autobalance system, that doesn't take into account your "class" when balancing, doesn't help at all.
So, the only thing that's needed to be fixed is that. Just cap the number of cav players allowed to spawn to 10-15% of total players on a team and problem solved (with a horse in their equipment, they could spawn without it) ...
PD: +1 if you like the idea.
Really constructive,i like ur arguments.
Twice hooray.
Better yet! lets cap the amount of 2h spammers to umm say 2% I think I'm being generous there :)
On a serious note if you want to cap one class then the amount of people playing ranged, thrower, piker, 2her 1h+shield will go up and then you and others will call for a % cap on another class and so on and so forth, telling people what class they can and can't play is not the way forward. If I wanted to be told what class to play Id ask someone, I don't want to be told I can't play archer, cav thrower or any class just because people are butthurt and fail to work as a team. there are plenty of ways to take down cav and if you can't think of any......well then boohoo for you lifes a bitch get over it.
I'm not saying you can't play cav, I'm just suggesting a regulation on the number of simultaneous cav playing, due to its superior performance compared to other classes.
All of you that say "I want to play the class, don't cap the number" are just thinking on yourselves and not in general. An op class must always be regulated in order to get balance. It's not that strange or new, it's used in almost every succesful gaming formula. Some players fun shouldn't be put over all the others ...
It's fair that you play cav, but not all the time and with nearly no cost. That way, every "maxer" will end up playing cav, which ruins every other player fun ... remember, cav is not the problem, the problem is the overcrowd of cavmen.
"I want to play the class, don't cap the number" are just thinking on yourselves and not in general.
It's fair that you play cav, but not all the time and with nearly no cost. That way, every "maxer" will end up playing cav, which ruins every other player fun ... remember, cav is not the problem, the problem is the overcrowd of cavmen.
Does Herp equal Derpes? :?
All it takes is ONE good archer/thrower/pikeman to nullify me.
Defensive counters, you can easily ignore said one "good" archer/thrower/pikeman by just steering somewhere else and go kill the rest of the enemy team by engaging your stealth-hooves drive and hyper-space drive.
That would be true... if the "good" archer/thrower/pikeman would not stay with his team. Which is what happens most of the time: segregation is the best case scenario for enemy cav :wink:
Defensive counters, you can easily ignore said one "good" archer/thrower/pikeman by just steering somewhere else and go kill the rest of the enemy team by engaging your stealth-hooves drive and hyper-space drive.
You can still just ignore the "good" archer/thrower/pikeman that stays with a portion of his team and just kill the oblivious remaining half as there's always a huge portion of the team just totally jacking off and being stupid.
As a cavalry you can pick your battles, there just so happen to be so many easy battles.
Seems you both lack reading skills,so i will not continue with this nonsense.
Obviously whinning will continue forever about everything,but that doesnt mean theres nothing that can be improved. That is not an argument. You lack of arguments.
A Danish upkeep is +1k also.
Horses under destrier are not totally crap as u present them.Maybe u dont know how to use a horse and u need a +3 horse to rape a peasant.Gratz.
If you are not able to play cav and still do some money,u simply suck at money management or are using high tier everything all the time.
And if you often run into a group with 5 man which has 2 pikeman,you know , youre not good cav. Are u whinning about pikeman?,whats your point?.
Who in the cav elitism group is against blancing cav between teams?. Man up, just say it and stop using nonsense bullshit to prove nothing.
Ive seen teams with 15-20 cavs and about 5 cavs in the other team plenty of times. And u know what, if those 15-20 cavs are not retarded suicidal cavs, and they wait for their infantry to nearly clash with the enemy infantry,they got the round almost 100% of the time. If youre cav and havent noticed this kind of things. Uninstall. Its not about nerfing cavs.Its about having interesting rounds most of the time for everyone, dumbasses.
I would not nerf cav ,im not against bumps,im not against bump lancing bump slashing,couching,etc,etc. So if u wanna argue do it properly.
Dam guys why you gotta downvote my post...
I didn't even state that cav are OP. I'm just offering discussions about why people think they are...
Cav seems OP is what you said. Because of your lovely thread the dev completely make whistle become useless, now none of the horse will listen to whistle anymore, and all of them get slaughtered by horse haters.No. I said "Cav Seems OP?" QUESTION MARK. It's called initiating an oppurtunity for opinions and discussions.
Cav seems OP is what you said. Because of your lovely thread the dev completely make whistle become useless, now none of the horse will listen to whistle anymore, and all of them get slaughtered by horse haters.
Dam guys why you gotta downvote my post...
I didn't even state that cav are OP. I'm just offering discussions about why people think they are...
"Cav seems OP? How to fix this?"Because there are many people out there that view cavalry as a problem and whine about it.
You didn't explicitly say that cav is OP. Just that it's a problem. And the suggested solutions to the problem is buffing archery and pikes.
"They are argued to be the dominant class in this state of crpg."
You dance around the issue, using weasel language just like this.
"I've been seeing more and more complaints about cavalry buffness and "Cav OP" / "Cav Nerf" threads.
There are becoming increasingly larger amounts of cavalry in our servers. Sometmes around 10-15 per team on a full server."
Here you obviously describe the problem. What are you trying to say here, if not that cav is OP in comparison to the other classes?
It looks like a thinly veiled call to nerf cav, without even actually saying what's wrong with cav now. Drum up enough popular support and keep the issue alive and it'll look like a much bigger problem than it is. This is why I downvoted your post.
Your precious cavalry are very likely ready to be nerfed to shreads, so maybe if devs see lots of negative feedback against nerfing cav then they'll take your opinions into account and ditch the nerf.
cav is OP again? i need to update the mod and roll out my masterwork heavy lance.
Because there are many people out there that view cavalry as a problem and whine about it.
If you don't think it's a problem. Heres a thread that gives you a place to discuss and persuade others to think your way.
I personally do not care whatsoever how they change cav for better or for worse because I play cav everyone once in a while.
chadz has explained that he wants to completely recreate cav differently.
Your precious cavalry are very likely ready to be nerfed to shreads, so maybe if devs see lots of negative feedback against nerfing cav then they'll take your opinions into account and ditch the nerf.
You don't see the problem? I and the other few cav players need to be shouting constantly to make our voices heard over the hordes of 2h players who were caught unaware every map and lanced.
Why should it be up to me to convince them that they should be killed every now and then? That's pure madness.
Here you come along with your dubious neutrality in relation to cav, starting more threads and strongly hinting that cav should be nerfed as a starting point for your discussion. You seeded the pool, and hoped no one would notice.
And if cav is nerfed, I'll adapt. I've adapted 24 gens worth of 2h, piking, shielding, archery, crossbowing and cav, through numerous nerfs.
But who cares about classes right? 2h rule.
I was on my 2h cav yesterday on EU_4 there was 3 cav on my team including me and about 3 on the other team and there was about under 20 people on the server, me and the other two cav saw a small group of inf running into the middle of the map (it was a pretty open map) we went to attack and you know what happened.......we dropped like flys, they had two spearmen NO not pikers spearmen one had an ashwood pike the other had a boar spear and us horsemen had our horses killed and as we fell to the ground just as we stood up we got raped by the inf that was with the two spearmen. Now this group was about 4-5 people large and took down 3 cav in under 15 seconds....thats pretty dam fast and you know why they did so well? because they WORKED TOGETHER and was paying ATTENTION they wasn't trying to get kills nor be rambos they actually worked together and they wasn't even clan members they were all random people (although ___Bjorn___ was on their team and he tries to get teamwork going...)
That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard...... I'm being selfish because I want to play my favorite class? oh I'm sorry, next time I kill someone as cav and they bitch about it Ill leave and come on an alt, will that be better? and if I'm on say....my ranged character do I have to leave if someone bitches about me killing them on that to? Yeah thats really the way to balance the game :rolleyes:
have you even played cav? (bearing in mind the fairy horse also known as the "arabian" does not count as a real horse) the upkeep on my destrier is 1K+ thats on its own now add my armor, weapon boots, helmet, gloves, second weapon on top. Although I will admit they wont all break at once however if my horse breaks and my secondary weapon then my upkeep is 2k+ it doesn't sound like alot but having that once every few rounds with just those two breaking.....yeah it kinda adds up to alot of gold.
Also if its not fair to play cav all the time then what about the other classes? its ok for them to play inf and ranged all the time but its not ok for cav to play cav all the time.....yeah thats very fair and not siding with one class other another at all :rolleyes:
If the problem is the amount of cav on at once then yes it will and can be annoying, but you think its just annoying for the people on foot? WRONG other cav will be just as annoyed as someone who died on foot will be if their killed by another cav. I personally hate cav vs cav fights as its a 50-50% chance that you will win or die its annoying that if he times it just a second better then me then I'm fucked. Cav vs cav fights are to risky so I avoid them if I can as I want to survive the round.
One last point, if cav ruins everyones fun don't you think it wouldn't be in the game? plus don't you think ranged annoy 2hers??? Are they next on the list to have a "limit" put on them :?:
Teamwork doesn't do shit
I got to there and stopped reading, your unbelievably retarded if not then soo stupid that you pass as one. If you want to be rambo you do that, have fun but don't come to the forums QQing and bitching about how cav needs a nerf or to be "fixed" just because your blind, deaf and dumb kthnxbai.
You what you say is what I say. Teamwork and counters are ok, when you're trying to defeat 1 cavmen, using a group of 3 infantry man. When numbers are equal, everything is fucked. So I propose to cap the number of cav. Is it that difficult to understand to you? EQUAL NUMBER OF MEN is the key, think of it.
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What about the mongols in history? All of them are Cav (Full of Horse archers + lancers + heavy cavalry), is that equal?
Im happy with the way NA1 is right now. (Yeah, you better specify where you play when you know the servers arent running the same versions)
Im an archer.
1vs1 - At range, all me. When cavalry is close enough to engage, they have a slight advantage due to horse bump.
1vs1 + a Tree - Pretty evenly matched duel
Cute bunny. What does the text translate to?
Man you have a short brain if you can't see that.
Vs. a team crowded of cavmen, teamwork doesn't do shit, if you don't believe this either you haven't played enough the mod or you learn nothing from what you do.
You can be a group of pikemen, or whatever, when a group of the same number of cavmen attack another group from different directions, they'll end up bumping people and raping them, no matter the counters.
Cav can also do teamwork, and when they do, a teamworking group of pikemen/infantry have nothing to do.
You're not very smart if you can't see that.
You what you say is what I say. Teamwork and counters are ok, when you're trying to defeat 1 cavmen, using a group of 3 infantry man. When numbers are equal, everything is fucked. So I propose to cap the number of cav. Is it that difficult to understand to you? EQUAL NUMBER OF MEN is the key, think of it.
Im not in favour of limiting any class per team neither. :)
Likewise.
BRING ON the cavalry (can we stop saying cavmen? It sounds a bit too prehistoric). Have the infantry ADAPT to changing situations, FORCE THEM to RELY on one another, have them THINK before positioning themselves, make 'em GROW situational AWARENESS.
Cavalry is the ultimate sharpener of senses and the great uniter of Warband - there is nothing in this game that more efficiently brings people together and for this alone it needs to remain exactly as it is. A constant threat against which one's sole resort is the teammate.
I'm going to blame the 2-handers too. If they just let the rear guard catch up instead charging recklessly after the enemy, those big gaps won't open up.
At the back we always see the cav dancing around, testing for weakness, never getting too close, then suddenly they disappear. Because while we're watching them, they're watching the main blob, and they quickly take off and flank them (usually in villages). Then, as us throwers, archers and pikemen try catch up, a big group of enemy melee pops around a corner and destroys us- well, it takes a little longer for them to destroy the kiting archers.
But 90% of 2-handers have no patience. They will elbow by me on a siege ladder as I'm catching every arrow and throwing axe on my shield to jump in and start swinging wildly, giving me no chance to use my throwing stuff. In villages I'll be emptying my jarids into the oncoming maul and polearm guys at pointblank range, but they'll run right in front of me (not giving me the three seconds I need to soften them up for them) then bitch cuz they got a jarid in the back.
So patience, guys patience. I'm not talking camping, but a slightly slower advance. You'll still have your chance to hack and slash, the enemy's not leaving, but it'll take a few seconds longer. Taking 20 seconds longer every round could mean at worst you'll die fighting instead of sudden insta-death. Unless you're cav. Then you'll die right right away.