cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Leshma on July 12, 2012, 12:06:49 am

Title: Item balancers
Post by: Leshma on July 12, 2012, 12:06:49 am
Why are they rarely changing stats?

Do they use special software or they create stats for items based on experience?

Why we have to have for them so long to make some changes, like they are actually developing new code or implementing new feature?

Besides being integral part of mod balance, item balancing could be used as quick fix for many balancing issues cRPG may have at times.

For example: polestagger removal was a bit too big nerf nerf to polearms and now twohanded weapons (greatswords) are dominating. Simple stat buff could fix this balance issue until actual developers came up with a new mechanics or different solution.

Is it really that hard to make changes in item stats more often? Aren't those simple database entries, why they need to wait for big patches?
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: duurrr on July 12, 2012, 12:07:43 am
they herp so much theres derp all over the floor

edit : serious post, why would they give a shit? theyre probably not getting paid and if you do something well, you should know to never do it for free
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: okiN on July 12, 2012, 12:11:37 am
The more often you make changes, especially big ones, the harder it is to keep track of trends in balance and usage, and know which changes need to be made.
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: BlackMilk on July 12, 2012, 12:48:28 am
a certain player from byz whos name rhymes with phase and race just went 50-0 on eu3 with a gla..im not saying that he wouldnt be able to do so with a danish gs but i think it shows that polearms are in a decent spot right now :wink: 
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: _GTX_ on July 12, 2012, 01:15:30 am
If it aint broken, dont fix it. I think they are taking a good and steady approach to balancing. Instead of trying to balance each day, it will get out of hand.
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: BlindGuy on July 12, 2012, 01:17:25 am
NO! NO THOUGHTFUL BALANCE. Just take outputs from a RNG for all values of all weapons each morning and by law of avaerages in a few years time we will have fun game to play.
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: TugBoat on July 12, 2012, 01:19:43 am
One thing we can all agree on is that Elder's Cudgel needs a +1 buff to damage
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: Lord_Panos on July 12, 2012, 02:20:00 am
Fasader is too busy farming in D3  :wink:
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: BlueKnight on July 12, 2012, 02:41:01 am
eh Leshma... New stab detection actually buffed stabbing polearms. Slowing down speed of spinstab nerfed all melee classes. polestagger was some kind of freezing bullshit that when you got touched by somebody with polearm you couldn't move like a moron for over a second which was the death sentence usually. Also hitslash+stun=stunlock sometimes and that was certain bullshit. Polearms are very universal so you support with a longspear/pike, outrange with glaive, stab like a boss, use them on horseback,  fight in melee like a hero ( xandhold, Tor, Friedturtle - GLA users ). You can break the shields and your weapon isn't unbalanced. Also upkeep is lower than for 2h. polestagger was an epic bullshit and I'm happy it is in game for no longer.
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: Gurnisson on July 12, 2012, 02:58:30 am
Quote from: BlueKnight on July 12, 2012, 02:41:01 am
eh Leshma... New stab detection actually buffed stabbing polearms.

^
Doesn't know what he's talking about.


When you say 'stabbing polearms' i guess you mean the weapons that focus/rely on stabbing, right? Compare the likes of Ashwood Pike, Battle Fork, Long Awlpike, English Bill to how t hey were pre-patch. They're awful compared to how they were. It was a good thing they removed polestagger on the polearms but the turn-limit rendered these weapons quite useless.
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: TugBoat on July 12, 2012, 03:14:15 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on July 12, 2012, 02:58:30 am
^
Doesn't know what he's talking about.


When you say 'stabbing polearms' i guess you mean the weapons that focus/rely on stabbing, right? Compare the likes of Ashwood Pike, Battle Fork, Long Awlpike, English Bill to how t hey were pre-patch. They're awful compared to how they were. It was a good thing they removed polestagger on the polearms but the turn-limit rendered these weapons quite useless.

Polestagger is still on NA server! I think they need to remove spin nerf and get rid of polestagger. That would make polearms and 2h more balance I think
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on July 12, 2012, 04:39:23 am
Quote from: Leshma on July 12, 2012, 12:06:49 am
For example: polestagger removal was a bit too big nerf nerf to polearms and now twohanded weapons (greatswords) are dominating. Simple stat buff could fix this balance issue until actual developers came up with a new mechanics or different solution.
So nerfing polestagger really affected all polearms equally? It really affected a GLA as much as a War Spear? I don't think it's obvious that it did, or that all polearms were even hurt by losing polestagger. Which means buffing the stats of polearms could be more damaging to weapon type balance, than simply removing polestagger. On one hand you have the removal of a shitty mechanic that a lot of people really hate, on the other, you have random stat buffs that are there simply to keep the status quo.

I don't think you should rely on the "guess and check" method for item balance.
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: BlueKnight on July 12, 2012, 09:09:22 am
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Knitlery now never bumps with an awlpike, distance doesn't matter. Also you can hit same target 2 times with longspear faster than you were able earlier. Person that is stabbed gets damage when top of the weapon touches him with enough speed and dmg. Most of polearms have like around 30 stab dmg. I was thinking about poleaxe, awlpike while writing this. It is hardly possible to bump with stab from poleaxe even from 0 distance. Yesterday while fighting with knitlery I could hardly do anything except downblock because that awlpike kept stabbing me so early that I couldn't do much. Also go 1vs 1 with clever guy with espada eslavona and from 0 distance that stab will hit you before you even notice.

Now you have to have your weapon very close to the enemy while stabbing him and them move your mouse aside very fast so the weapon touches enemy as fast as it can. New stab detector is different but it's better because with a pike or longspear when it's touching the enemy it usually insta hits him. You can't turn around like a fucked up mechanics allowed you earlier, but it's better if you get to know how to stab. For example as a 2h with Danish I can stab an enemy 2 times in 1 second because of early detection. I just hold my weapon close to his body and move it into his body... nearly no chance of glance. Also if you aren't careful while fighting with somebody with warspear or polearm of this kind it is likely that your enemy will do his right swing and instantly after that a stab. Luckily there is no stun because by stabbing polearms like these would be able to stabstunlock and I am serious now.

Also why do you think hoplites became more popular? They are very supportive and early stab makes it easier to aim and lowers amount of bumps. Just aim 5-10 cm away from an enemy...

Gurni I played a gen as a polearmer sine they changed the stab. I was using a lot of stabbing stuff also going light clothes shit-shield hoplite style. I know you've been playing with +3 bamboospear for some time and you were great with that, but all you need to do is adjust finally lol. Stab has changed but it isn't worse.


EDIT: my friend is using a long awlpike and he was satisfied with that. Finally over 180 length weapons are support weapons.
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: Piok on July 12, 2012, 09:39:56 am
Just give 2handers polestab animation it will be bigger nerf for them then removing polestagger from polearms
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: Leshma on July 12, 2012, 10:12:53 am
Polestagger removal was just an example why I think that stats should be changed more often.

Point of this thread is not discussion about polestagger or polearms vs twohanders balance...

Might as well lock it at this point because thread went in

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Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: Vibe on July 12, 2012, 10:18:29 am
I'd say shit is pretty balanced. Polearms have butts of pierce on stab and lots of shield breaking shit and are able to use really long support weapons (pike, long spear, etc) but worse animations, 2h have better animations but lower stab damage and very few shieldbreaking tags. 1h are fast but with less damage and you can use a shield.

I'd honestly just improve 1h speed spin.
Title: Re: Item balancers
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on July 12, 2012, 02:22:19 pm
Quote from: BlackMilk on July 12, 2012, 12:48:28 am
a certain player from byz whos name rhymes with phase and race just went 50-0 on eu3 with a gla..im not saying that he wouldnt be able to do so with a danish gs but i think it shows that polearms are in a decent spot right now :wink:
what's a glase?