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Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Slamz on July 10, 2012, 10:03:47 pm

Title: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Slamz on July 10, 2012, 10:03:47 pm
So in the battle for Suno today, we outnumbered the attackers by at least this many:

(click to show/hide)

We had far less tickets but far more bodies.

Tactical solution?  Charge.  Fight them in the open where the numbers advantage helps us.  Drop their flags if possible but fight in the open at least.

However, some defenders didn't like this idea and decided to TK me when I went to open the gate and let out more of us to attack them:

(click to show/hide)

I'm not even posting a ban thread because these are the idiots you EU players deserve.  I'd rather have him as a general on your team during the next EU vs NA battle.

So instead of fighting in the open and using our numbers, we fought on the walls, in narrow spaces, allowing the Greys to do classic Spartan tactics: fight large groups with small numbers in narrow areas to nullify their advantage.



And they won.  They lost fewer tickets despite the overwhelming population advantage defense had.

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So good job to Saracen_Abdul_Rashid_PanBaba and his few supporters.  You helped re-enact the Persian side of the Battle of Thermopylae and cost us an easy victory over the Grays.  You win the Dunce of the Year Award.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Dach on July 10, 2012, 10:13:56 pm
So you're the dumbass that opened the gate, leading to grey cavalry to enter the town and destroy our healing tent and construction rack!!

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BTW don't expect AI CASTLE DEFENCE to do tactical thing like you just mentionned because they actually a bunch of randomers playing randomly.... We're not all on the same TS...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: [ptx] on July 10, 2012, 10:14:59 pm
Aww, man, such a numerical advantage... wasted.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Slamz on July 10, 2012, 10:21:19 pm
Quote from: Dach on July 10, 2012, 10:13:56 pm
So you're the dumbass that opened the gate, leading to grey cavalry to enter the town and destroy our healing tent and construction rack!!

No, actually someone else opened the gate for the one good rush outside we had.  I went to open it for a second rush when I got knocked off the gate for 90% of my health by some idiot trying to TK me.

So we only had one good attack.

Then we fought like morons in narrow areas and completely surrendered a major advantage.



EU players:
Please recruit Dach for your secondary general when you attack NA holdings.

Dach and Saracen!  With them at your helm you can't possibly win lose!
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Dach on July 11, 2012, 12:29:30 am
So why is your plan so good if that let enemy cavalry get inside and destroy our stuff???

Why is your plan so good that it utterly failed...

Because people didn't listen to you... yeah I know. If you are OH so much of a great strategist you should take into account that people won't listen in an AI strat battle and plan your decision accordingly next time.  :idea:

Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on July 11, 2012, 01:13:55 am
That blows balls.

...Is there are space in Nditions for AI fief defence? That would be handy if for the AI briefing it said "GO HERE USE THIS TS YOU TURDS".

But I agree a sally forth would have crushed the Greys. We did that at Praven when we didn't out number them and beat them in the field, I was shitting bricks I thought we were going to get smashed but our inf powered through them and forced them off the walls by going outside and smashing everything.

Too bad it didn't come off sounds like it would have been a hell of a victory had the AI bum rushed them.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Slamz on July 11, 2012, 01:28:46 am
Quote from: Dach on July 11, 2012, 12:29:30 am
Because people didn't listen to you... yeah I know. If you are OH so much of a great strategist you should take into account that people won't listen in an AI strat battle and plan your decision accordingly next time.  :idea:

"Open the gate and rush out" is not a complex strategy.  In fact, the only problem with it is that a couple of people went out of their way to put a stop to it.  Even simple strategies fail when idiots TK, TW and physically block it.

So in the end we did things your way and lost 938 tickets while killing only 753 despite physically outnumbering them by about 2 to 1.

Also, good luck reaching your healing tent when you're high on a wall with 10 enemies ahead of you and 20 friendlies behind you and a fatal drop to both sides.  I must have seen a good two dozen defenders die from falling off the wall.  This is what happens when you don't think things through, as you clearly don't.



In summary, please change your avatar to the following image:

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It's General Custer.  You and him would have a lot to talk about.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: rufio on July 11, 2012, 01:37:27 am
although slamz you are totaly correct on strategy, it was indeed a pub defense so you should have taken the time to convince the less fortunate minded on this world like panbububububu that your plan would work , and explain why it would work. now you just got tked because they totally misinterpeted your intentions. im glad thow, i was on attacking side, would have hated to fight that full plate army in the open  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Gurnisson on July 11, 2012, 01:42:33 am
Quote from: rufio on July 11, 2012, 01:37:27 am
would have hated to fight that full plate army in the open  :mrgreen:

Funny thing is, attacker's +3 heraldic trans and +3 gauntlets made them survive more while being faster. :P

Scarier than plate, am I right?
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Osiris on July 11, 2012, 02:11:12 am
lordly trans + rain renderd most of our range inefective :( I personally hit with 50 bolts killing 2 :( but it is true that defenders spent more time raging about grey spies and people opening gates than defending
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: rufio on July 11, 2012, 02:23:56 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on July 11, 2012, 01:42:33 am
Funny thing is, attacker's +3 heraldic trans and +3 gauntlets made them survive more while being faster. :P

Scarier than plate, am I right?

this reaction was uncalled for , and smells like butthurt, full plate is fullplate, loomed or not
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Osiris on July 11, 2012, 02:26:16 am
well no :D normal full plate is worse than fully loomed trans and gloves and weapons :P
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: rufio on July 11, 2012, 02:41:31 am
yes its a huge fuckin world of difference, man u guys are antfucking puffs  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Gurnisson on July 11, 2012, 02:49:12 am
Quote from: rufio on July 11, 2012, 02:23:56 am
this reaction was uncalled for , and smells like butthurt, full plate is fullplate, loomed or not

 :rolleyes:

I just stated the fact that you had better armor yourself and that fearing plate for being plate wasn't really necessary.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: HarunYahya on July 11, 2012, 02:51:24 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on July 11, 2012, 02:49:12 am
:rolleyes:

I just stated the fact that you had better armor yourself and that fearing plate for being plate wasn't really necessary.
Still, fearing plate is fearing plate .
Fearing plates gonna fear
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Slamz on July 11, 2012, 04:39:55 am
Quote from: rufio on July 11, 2012, 01:37:27 am
it was indeed a pub defense so you should have taken the time to convince the less fortunate minded on this world like panbububububu that your plan would work , and explain why it would work. now you just got tked because they totally misinterpeted your intentions. im glad thow, i was on attacking side, would have hated to fight that full plate army in the open  :mrgreen:

For the record, I completely agree with the concept of "don't try complex strategies with a pug".

This wasn't like "form up, march in a staggered line formation, then wheel 45 degrees to the right and attack in a wedge formation upon the enemy spawn".

This was "open the door and go outside".  Doesn't get any simpler than that.

The only reason it didn't work was ONE person decided to stop the rest of the team.  When I first went up to open the gate, there were 10 people standing at the gate waiting to rush out.  Once you get momentum rolling on these types of things, that usually carries the day.  Saracen single-handedly broke the momentum and gave away the town.



What I really want out of this thread, though, is just for more people to think about "we have many; they have few.  Should we REALLY be sitting in the castle, fighting on narrow walls?"

In my experience, PUG plans can work if you can just get a dozen people to go along with it.  If just a few people had realized the possibilities and spoken up with me, we probably could have talked Saracen down from his perch (or at least had some cooperation in kicking him away).

So to the people of Strategus battles, I ask:
Who can prevent travesties like this from occurring again?

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Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: rufio on July 11, 2012, 04:48:57 am
yes pugs can go right, ive had the priveledge of leading eu1 sometimes and acually having people listen, but as a pug leader you really need to interpet the situation right, and from what i can conclude with the fractional information and reading the server chat while we were in the actual battle, you did have a plan , but tried to force it while u still had an obstical to pass, i must say eventhow you would have tried it differentley panbaba the unwise probably wouldnt have budged out of pure stubborness, but the way it went now, well history can tell it ":) you basicly opened the gates to an attack while you had a rebbelion to hush  inside (in a sense), i know you had the best intentions but it worked counter productive. gl next time. godspeed good sir. :wink:
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Everkistus on July 11, 2012, 07:31:18 am
Your plan seems good, but the audience wasn't very good. In my opinion it's completely useless to even try to get some strategy when you are just one guy defending an AI castle/city. You need to have at least 10 people with you on same TS, actually doing stuff. If they charge with you, the randomers are likely to join in.

After all, randomers gonna random.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Ronin on July 11, 2012, 03:00:45 pm
Quote from: Everkistus on July 11, 2012, 07:31:18 am
Your plan seems good, but the audience wasn't very good.
Audience has never been good. Take this into account next time slamz. It all seems like a tragic incident what has happened, rather than a foolproof strategy.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: AllTimeFail on July 11, 2012, 10:51:54 pm
Quote from: rufio on July 11, 2012, 02:23:56 am
this reaction was uncalled for , and smells like butthurt, full plate is fullplate, loomed or not

Aren't you guys from the same faction? Or am I reading this wrong? Why were you arguing?
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: okiN on July 12, 2012, 12:27:55 am
Because they disagreed? That can happen sometimes. :o
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Lord_Panos on July 12, 2012, 02:18:45 am
Slamz, I owe you an apology,I did not see in the chat that you were saying to sally out thats why I attacked you several times.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on July 12, 2012, 03:51:21 am
Quote from: Slamz on July 10, 2012, 10:03:47 pm
So good job to Saracen_Abdul_Rashid_PanBaba and his few supporters.  You helped re-enact the Persian side of the Battle of Thermopylae and cost us an easy victory over the Grays.  You win the Dunce of the Year Award.

It is hard coded in the DNA of the decendents of the persians to charge into defensive formations in bottle neck positions and be slaughtered, like its in the DNA of a lemming to jump off a cliff to their death.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on July 12, 2012, 04:03:23 am
Next time that happens Slamz if I'm on we can build a catapult and smash our own wall. Then they will have to sally forth!
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on July 12, 2012, 04:52:00 am
It's quite possible to get randomers to use strategy.

Just spam "RUSH THEM YOU bundle of sticksS" in chat. Or variations. "RUSH THEM THROUGH THE GATE". Just use all caps and do it over and over again.

People will listen. And, of course, that little group of people you might have in your TS can act as the core around which a proper strategy can form.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Harpag on July 12, 2012, 02:40:50 pm
Result of the Battle of Suno, wasn't an obvious mistake of defensers. This was due to several factors. I think one of the primary was just type of armor. People are not accustomed to a full plate. Too heavy armor very limited ability to move, and in addition gives a false sense of security. The fight on the narrow walls, is very difficult to fight using outnumbered. The crowd of tanks condensed into a small space is an ideal target for archers and crossbowmen. Abandoning the walls, it is  not an option. Attack through the open gate, is also not a good solution because we were ready for it (heavy horses in great quantities). I must admit that fighting against us is never easy for anyone, because we are a harmonious organization where everyone has a designated task, commanders are experienced, disciplined people, we always have full communication (TS is a must) If oponent apply tactics, we always have a ready solutions. To win, you must force us to make a mistake.

See you at the next battle, which I hope will give a pleasant entertainment, and a lot of XP for everyone  :)
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Bjord on July 12, 2012, 02:48:25 pm
How about we forbid NA to play on EU AI sieges, and vice versa?

Then no complaint from either side and if AI side loses then we have only ourselves to blame instead of blaming NA players with 60 deaths(Bootsy_Knight_of_TKoV) and 30 kills.

Some of you NA are at least decent enough to stay away from combat and focus on saboutaging the enemy's efforts by destroying ladders etc. And some of you can even play with 130 ping, like Maim who got a pretty good k/d(which is what matters, not that you're on "top" of scoreboard).

Or a less radical and extremist solution: Prioritize people with high reliability and performance first and then people with 30+ level. This way, both NA and EU players will defend AI battles and will most likely do a good job instead of people who are just looking to get exp at lvl 21 because they're too lazy.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Blackzilla on July 12, 2012, 05:06:31 pm
When I play EU sieges, normally I just sit back with my xbow and pew pew for an hour and a half, I also participate in the construction and ladder placement. Im mostly go 1-1 normally i dont have a god awful KD, like at the last AI defense i participated in.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Turboflex on July 12, 2012, 07:48:22 pm
Yeah I like to just grab jarids and throw at people on ladders and can get respectable scores.

Melee is really tough tho, the ping for me is 110 which is actually decent, but real prob is defenders get shitty gear vs UIF usually bringing nice gear. As a 1h I always seem to get stuck with long espada, which is an elegant dueling sword for open fighting but sucks balls when you need to hack point blank at people people with 60+ armour in a dirty walltop/breach clusterfight or a tight alleyway. Meanwhile alliance like UIF has all these dudes smashing running into you with a +3 great maul, laughing at your espada.

If any dev is reading this pls tweak NPC defend weapons, for castles and cities especially they should get a short weapon like a short style axe, steel pick, warhammer, italian falchion, etc. as well as a long one like a long espada or nordic champ. I'm sure polearm/2h would like similar choice, more variety of length and style.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 12, 2012, 08:06:22 pm
Yeah seen some polearms that were way too long for close quarter sieges.  And the AI defense should be buying 1h weapons that are short, quick, and do pierce or blunt damage.  Long cutting weapons suck for sieges.

Also was part of one where there was only plate armor, so the archers didn't have any armor.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Zanze on July 12, 2012, 08:58:28 pm
Quote from: Bjord on July 12, 2012, 02:48:25 pm
Then no complaint from either side and if AI side loses then we have only ourselves to blame instead of blaming NA players with 60 deaths(Bootsy_Knight_of_TKoV) and 30 kills.

I've personally watched Boots play in the last 3 sieges. His tactics goes as follow: Use the best equipment the AI bought, charge solo against their entire enemy team. This results in him having high kills on the xbows that don't expect people to be stupid enough to charge them, but also wastes the most tickets for no reason. I agree that I usually don't have the best kdr, but thats because I jump off the walls and onto their unreachable ladders and break them, taking one for the team. Boots just herp derp charges.
Title: Re: Suno: Legend of the Incredibly Stupid Defenders
Post by: Bjord on July 12, 2012, 09:00:41 pm
Well I actually don't mind you NH guys because you at least try to contribute.