cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Frell on June 28, 2012, 11:38:19 pm

Title: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 28, 2012, 11:38:19 pm
(Im not an archer, and I havent been one for almost a year)

If players are going to be stumbled when hit by arrows, horses should be slowed by 20% for 1-2(depending on horse) seconds when hit by an arrow.

Horses with no armor are faster, but are hurt more by arrows and should be slowed for 2 seconds after being hit

Chain horses would be slowed for 1 second.

Horses with heavy chain/plates would be slowed for  half a second.

or

lsumpter 1.8 seconds
rouncey and steppe 1.4 seconds
desert to destrier 1 second
warhorse to catapraht 0.8 seconds
charger and above 0.5 seconds


The stat would simply be "Hit speed: # of seconds)



Its stupid how the only thing that can slow down cav is their own retarded steering. Realistically the horse has eyes too, and wouldn't run into a wall. But it would be slowed.


Incoming cav QQ
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Miwiw on June 28, 2012, 11:40:06 pm
Sounds fine. +1

Oh, I hear lancers already crying about HAs, "DONT SHOOT MY HORSE"
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 28, 2012, 11:58:31 pm
Incoming cav QQ

Really? Another QQ nerf cav thread by an archer? When will this stop.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 12:00:29 am
Oh im not an archer. Im 2h. But everytime im hit with an arrow im forced to stumble, but when my teammates shoot horses the horses don't stumble. Its stupid.

Miw is fine with the idea, and hes a horse archer.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Miwiw on June 29, 2012, 12:02:56 am
No, I'm foot archer now.  :lol:

However there are so many threads about nerf of archers, there need to be more about cav.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 12:03:03 am
Oh im not an archer. Im 2h. But everytime im hit with an arrow im forced to stumble, but when my teammates shoot horses the horses don't stumble. Its stupid.

Miw is fine with the idea, and hes a horse archer.

He seems pretty happy to participate in every nerf cav thread, therefore all his arguments are invalid  :wink:

However there are so many threads about nerf of archers

Archery has the most nerf threads because it's still pretty retarded yet those who play archer are the hardest QQers.  Circle of hate continues.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 12:06:13 am
Im not asking to buff archer damage or nerf cav health or anything. Rather, this is a negotiation that finally draws the line between horse armor vs horse speed. Arrows hurt. End of.

Archers are a support role, they aren't necessarily there to kill. So let them support the team by slowing down the horse for a second so we can get a chance to kill them.


Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 12:10:51 am
I'd rather see cRPG going in the direction of buffs all around, enough of this slowing everything down shit.

My suggestion to your thread is:

Remove the arrowstun against infantry and give archers better melee options - I stand by that one since a long time but it never gets added.

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Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 12:12:52 am
The horse is an animal though. Games are about balance.

If you want to go real fast, you need less armor.

Less armor means arrows hurt more.

Pick.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 12:16:52 am
The horse is an animal though. Games are about balance.

If you want to go real fast, you need less armor.

Less armor means arrows hurt more.

Pick.

Personally i'm a big fan of realism over balance, strategy over arcade etc etc, if you want balance go play chess or ludo with a friend.

Neither.

Game will never be balanced as one class will always find a way to adapt and become OP.  And then you know what happens...
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Son Of Odin on June 29, 2012, 12:29:08 am
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Yeah OP ever played cav and trying to hit someone just to be hit himself by an arrow which cancels his attack and that annoying 2h pro 1337 skillz superhero you were about to gank lolstabs you to death?
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 12:30:41 am
Yeah OP ever played cav and trying to hit someone just to be hit himself by an arrow which cancels his attack and that annoying 2h pro 1337 skillz superhero you were about to gank lolstabs you to death?

LOL

This.

The lance just "dissapears" until you get over the stun.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 12:32:46 am
Personally i'm a big fan of realism over balance, strategy over arcade etc etc, if you want balance go play chess or ludo with a friend.

Neither.

Game will never be balanced as one class will always find a way to adapt and become OP.  And then you know what happens...

Ok realism it is. The horse is still going to be in a shit ton of pain.

Im a fan of both. I actually want realism in this game more.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Leshma on June 29, 2012, 12:46:52 am
I'm against this. Polestun has been removed, arrow stun should be as well (in return buff archers armor and melee abilities). Only stun that makes sense is stun made by melee weapon because it's necessary to keep spammers in check.

There are other ways how to balance horses (check my posts in nerf bump damage topic). I also disagree that greatswords should be swiss-knives like they are now. Greatswords weren't used against cavalry like they are in this mod (at least I'm abusing them all the time, not my fault other don't know how).
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 12:53:08 am
I'm against this. polestagger has been removed, arrow stun should be as well (in return buff archers armor and melee abilities).

+1
You talk sense.

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Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 12:58:26 am
I don't think players should be "immune" to being hit by arrows either.

But either or works. Adding a slow to horses 2 seconds after theyre hit will have the same effect as above but itll be more realistic.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 29, 2012, 01:02:36 am
no, arrowstun is one main reason that archers on the own team can be helpful. polestagger mainly helped the polearms themselves in 1vs.1, arrowstun is useful for teammates.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Leshma on June 29, 2012, 01:04:11 am
Arrowstun has a good and a bad side. If they hit the enemy, you'll get a free hit. If they hit you, enemy will get a free hit. Most archers will hit you most of the time, also they will shoot even if enemy is a shielder and friendly has no shield :rolleyes:

Also, arrowstun allows kiting. Kiting should die already.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Miwiw on June 29, 2012, 01:09:18 am
Voted yes, but 2 seconds is too much. Make it half a second, thats already a bit more difficult for riders.

Btw armoured horse get like no dmg from cut arrows, make heavy armoured horse only get stunned by bodkins.

Arrowstun supports kiting, not much but even without archers who have agi builds will not stop with it. That wouldn't help.

Edit: Yes, slowing down of course... maybe 2 seconds for a sumpter but not a destrier. :D
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 01:10:20 am
2 seconds for unarmored fast horses, if they want less stagger they need to choose more armor and sacrifice more overall speed. Balance.

Mind you, I mean slowed, not dead stopped ;)
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 29, 2012, 01:12:07 am
Arrowstun has a good and a bad side. If they hit the enemy, you'll get a free hit. If they hit you, enemy will get a free hit. Most archers will hit you most of the time, also they will shoot even if enemy is a shielder and friendly has no shield :rolleyes:
thats nothing archer specific and I don't know why but I get very rarely teamhitted by archers these days, I think the reporting system did a good part of helping here.


Also, arrowstun allows kiting. Kiting should die already.
IMO a bigger problem is the aiming in the wrong direction, then turn in very last milisecond and shoot. Also popular to shot behind shields. TURNSPEED-NERF FOR ARCHERS!
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 01:22:59 am
Turn speed nerf needs to effect archers, they need to be forced to walk backwards if they want to kite
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: gazda on June 29, 2012, 01:23:22 am
as a cav, i wouldnt cry if it gets implemented, but i think you are underestimating the importance of 1 second, and not to imagine 3 arrows shot one after another, that would practically stop the horse

lsumpter 1.8 seconds
rouncey and steppe 1.4 seconds
desert to destrier 1 second
warhorse to catapraht 0.8 seconds
charger and above 0.5 seconds
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Digglez on June 29, 2012, 01:36:53 am
clearly OP has never played cav and tried to fight any competent archer that is aware of you.  Stupid idea, stupid suggestion.  thinking that a tiny arrow is going to slow down a giant animal
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 01:38:15 am
Thinking that tiny arrow piercing 1-2 inches into the horse is not going to slow it down is stupid.


And yes I have played cav. Archers aim general sucks unless you ride straight at them or turn too sharp.


Archers as a whole are generally bad. Alot of people play archer because going melee is a bit too much for them. But there are really good ones.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: San on June 29, 2012, 06:33:20 am
The slowing seems like an unpredictable and annoying mechanic to me...
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: bruce on June 29, 2012, 08:24:01 am
thinking that a tiny arrow is going to slow down a giant animal

Ye, that's daft. It's going to kill it, not slow it.

Unless it's armoured, in which case either it will do essentially nothing (low-power bows / bad shots ) or kill it anyway (high powered bows / shots in less armoured areas).
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: gazda on June 29, 2012, 09:36:45 am
clearly OP has never played cav and tried to fight any competent archer that is aware of you.  Stupid idea, stupid suggestion.  thinking that a tiny arrow is going to slow down a giant animal

this is true, but how many of those are there, very few i tell you. Most of the others are just unaware dummies that just stand and wait to get slained. And honestly, if you come across archer like blackbow and persistantly try to ride around him and kill him, its your own fault, just leave those alone.

You cant judge a whole class just by best players in it.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 10:05:55 am
Thinking that tiny arrow piercing 1-2 inches into the horse is not going to slow it down is stupid.
Ye, that's daft. It's going to kill it, not slow it.
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Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: bruce on June 29, 2012, 10:42:50 am
Seriously, do you think riding around with 4 arrows in a unarmoured horse is realistic or balanced?

Bows are effective enough for hunting (big game, too) but not for killing horses? Really.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: gazda on June 29, 2012, 11:16:02 am
they could introduce bleeding out for horses and humans, but i dont think that would work well
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Eugen on June 29, 2012, 11:49:11 am
I voted no. Horses are runners. They wont get stopped - except of sever injury. But: Warband never had a wound system. Either you live or you die - same for horse. Arrow stun on persons is fine, it adds to melee depth. But horsestun... it just sounds ridiculous.

Archers have to aim on rider to get stun effect - or they have to kill the horse. Horse stun imo is just not necessary.

Cavallry is a threat! It is meant to be that way. Lancers nerf backt then limitting them to a small angel was enough I think.

What would be a good feature for counter cav was couching for footman lances... that would add some more power against heavy plated tankhorses.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 02:28:16 pm
Again, its not a "STUN"

Youre slowed by 20% for a seconds. Whoooo. Youre not dead stopped.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Eugen on June 29, 2012, 02:50:47 pm
Yes I had this in mind. I wrote it wrong. Insert (horse speed nerf on arrow hit) with (horsestun).
Also what  about multiple arrow hits? And what about melee hits on a bypassing horse? I dont think this feature makes much sense. Horses are target of arrows anyhow - if they would lose speed for some second, it would kinda be very bad for cavallry. I think this is to harsh an nerv.
I would more like to see return of stun on bump for horserider.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 03:09:03 pm
Horses arent that easy to hit with arrows unless the rider sucks
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: gazda on June 29, 2012, 03:17:51 pm
lets not lie about that, horses are pretty easy to hit  :)
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Piok on June 29, 2012, 03:22:12 pm
New Age of horse archery coming :shock:
They will not need to aim on horse head only hit your horse and you are in deep...
Hits will slow you down and you are at mercy of foes cav chasing you.
Cooperation with lancers or other close combat cav will ensure doom of every cav without this kind of support. 
Instead of this shitty suggestion fix rather cav shield force field which renders anticav lancers useless.
Nerf ranged accuracy  and increase ballistic curve of arrows and bolts(minor) because archery in middle ages was about bombardment not sniping. If you want to snipe go closer and face dangers.
Also with removal of shield force field there will be some randomness in hitting thru shield (if implement to infantry) and makes shield wall not so strong.
And for last suggestion implement crouching.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 03:25:20 pm

Nerf ranged accuracy  and increase ballistic curve of arrows and bolts(minor) because archery in middle ages was about bombardment not sniping. If you want to snipe go closer and face dangers.


YES.

(but remember, a high % of players are archers so this would never go through, they are all cunting legolas LARPers afterall, fucking splitting arrows and shit)
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Piok on June 29, 2012, 03:46:21 pm
YES.

(but remember, a high % of players are archers so this would never go through, they are all cunting legolas LARPers afterall, fucking splitting arrows and shit)
Maybe we can make some kind of cap called Legolas ears which will increase missile speed and accuracy to epic proportion with low armor, price as plated charger.
This will satisfy all Tolkien fans  8-)
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Bulzur on June 29, 2012, 03:48:36 pm
I voted no.

We seriously don't need a buff for HA and HX, and since the horse don't even slowed down when hit by a sideswing from a poleaxe, i don't see why it should when hit by a tiny little arrow. It's all for balance. Speed is very important for cav, and lowering it (when it's already not that difficult to kill the horses) would be too big of a nerf.

Need to "change" them in other ways.

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Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: gazda on June 29, 2012, 03:51:02 pm
in warband,

cav acts independetly, skirmishing around and taking oportunities when noone is watching to move in for a kill, instead of forming mass body and charging

archers snipe independently, instead of forming mass volleys like they would do in medieval times

and im hoping that will change in mount and blade 2 , cause i doubt anyone can do anything about it in warband, it can only be changed by peoples will to roleplay, and thats somethign you cant force
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 03:51:40 pm
*big cough*reduce the length of all thrusts animations from horseback by 10*big cough*[/spoiler]

After that *big cough* I hope you choked  :lol:

It already gets outranged by lolstab.

Make it even more lollable is a bad idea.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 04:04:51 pm
I voted no.

We seriously don't need a buff for HA and HX, and since the horse don't even slowed down when hit by a sideswing from a poleaxe, i don't see why it should when hit by a tiny little arrow. It's all for balance. Speed is very important for cav, and lowering it (when it's already not that difficult to kill the horses) would be too big of a nerf.

Need to "change" them in other ways.

(click to show/hide)
If they want more speed with less hit speed reduction then they need to choose a horse with armor. Its called balance. No armor and fast, but penalized by arrows, or more armor, slower, less penalized.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: bruce on June 29, 2012, 04:07:13 pm
We seriously don't need a buff for HA and HX,

This too.

Btw, making horses easier to shoot down would have to be accompanied with a horse ranged nerf of some sort.
Title: Re: New stat for horses - > Hit speed
Post by: Bulzur on June 29, 2012, 04:16:06 pm
After that *big cough* I hope you choked  :lol:

It already gets outranged by lolstab.

Make it even more lollable is a bad idea.

I actually had to get a big glass of water. It was really hard to say.  :mrgreen:
And yeah, i know, i get outranged by lolstab sometimes. It having a better reach than some 2h polearms is laughable.

But i have hope that this 2h animation changes to a "less range" one.

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