cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yachdiel on June 26, 2012, 03:22:25 am

Title: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Yachdiel on June 26, 2012, 03:22:25 am
I thought the new fix to the Lolstab sort've hurt everyone all around and turned a lot of fights into more of a gangbang rather than giving someone enough mobility to engage multiple enemies at once. I myself use a short 1-H sword that used footwork to gain openings on exposed flanks but ever since this new fix I found myself falling victim to my blows glancing. I've noticed the bow animation from this mod incorporates a similar bow animation from the "Combat Animation Enhancement" mod, this mod incorporates a variety of alternate animations which seem more realistic to me.

So the question is, could incorporating some new animations, say the Polearm stab and 2Handed stab from this mod, (which are quick animations that do not linger and allow for absurd spinstabing) or possibly custom animations, fix a lot of the problems in cRPG and allow for the return of faster more engaging combat with turn speed increase? And if so do you support it?

Link to exampled mod (note: I'm not advertising for this Mod, I am only referring to the stabbing animations of this mod as an example)
(click to show/hide)

Link to lawlsy video the devs of that mod made that include the polearm animation:
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: engurrand on June 26, 2012, 03:25:01 am
Yes, maybe not those... but yes i think new animations would be awesome...

OR, imagine!! the ability to switch animation types!

fuck y ea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on June 26, 2012, 08:05:13 am
I like the shield stab. It's very quick and violent, but side swing animations are just clones of each other.
Right now, swings have different uses, these animation would make fighting kinda dull.

Not to mention the problems of memorizing swings and such.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Artyem on June 26, 2012, 08:15:17 am
I was going to disagree until I watched the videos by Okaruwazashi, they're pretty impressive and could make the game a lot more interesting. It would add a new learning curve for sure.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Yachdiel on June 26, 2012, 10:13:11 am
Quote from: Froto_the_Loc on June 26, 2012, 08:05:13 am
I like the shield stab. It's very quick and violent, but side swing animations are just clones of each other.
Right now, swings have different uses, these animation would make fighting kinda dull.

Not to mention the problems of memorizing swings and such.

Thats very true, the animations in that mod in particular would be a big change and maybe new animations could help for sideswings, but I'm referring to the stabs. Quick stabs that don't linger like the current animations could really help with fixing lolstabbing, allowing the devs to put the turn speed back to normal and allow for 1H stabs to function more properly.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Molly on June 26, 2012, 10:35:55 am
Quote from: Yachdiel on June 26, 2012, 10:13:11 am
Thats very true, the animations in that mod in particular would be a big change and maybe new animations could help for sideswings, but I'm referring to the stabs. Quick stabs that don't linger like the current animations could really help with fixing lolstabbing, allowing the devs to put the turn speed back to normal and allow for 1H stabs to function more properly.
My 1h stabs work just fine.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Everkistus on June 26, 2012, 11:50:08 am
Would be hard to implement: no
Would require a shitload of item balancing: yes
Would require players to learn the new animations: yes
Would cause crying in the forums: yes
Would make mod more enjoyable for everyone in the end: yes

This is highly recommended at least by me.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Mlekce on June 26, 2012, 11:52:09 am
Polearms is so awsome,i like the 1h/spear stab also. Only thing i don't like is one handed/2h side swings. But ok i can adapt to that.
This need to be implemented in crpg!
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: MyBallsYourChin on June 26, 2012, 12:15:08 pm
Those looked very impressive.  Also, simply because the OP presented a set of animations already made, it doesn't mean the cRPG dev's would have to mimic those. 

With that said, the 1h stab looked fucking awesome and would definitely remove the issues some people are having with it.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Wiltzu on June 26, 2012, 02:21:24 pm
Probably stab and overhead could be added.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Kajia on June 26, 2012, 02:59:20 pm
Quote from: Kulin_ban on June 26, 2012, 11:37:41 am
After a bit of testing I can conclude that these animations have been well thought of.

There are no random things in it:

1. Animation ends where it starts, so everything is very fluid and natural
2. Combat is always "hanging in the air", since blocking, visually, is similar to readied attack
3. Chamber block animations (on end of video) are also very natural since attack starts as block almost
4. Feinting looks very fluid and circular, and there is also much wrist joint action with 2h swords, as it is supposed to be.
5. Whole combat is based on fast and short-timed strikes, again just like in real life

Demonstration video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxX9gsm9xqc)

i like the idea behind these animations, but i have some strong doubts because they have much less key frames than the original ones, and are therefore way too abrupt, too sudden.
the original animations have more movement and wiggling, so you can see them a lot easier. also the new ones have seemingly no acceleration at all, they just start, have the same speed all the way through, and then stop in an instant. it doesn't behave naturally and it will be very hard to fight with it because you can't really time as much = combat depth would be narrowed down.
the last point even degrades the idea of the animations flowing into each other, which is a cool thing in itself, but it doesn't really look like a possible human movement this way.

sorry to say that, but no.

I was thinking about reworking animations too, i think i am capable of doing that, but as i don't have any time ... i mean, if the community wants new animations, i would think about working out something, but i actually didn't believe this would happen :D
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Gurnisson on June 26, 2012, 03:02:42 pm
I've played with these animations on a different mod. Feinting side-swings with a one-hander is insta-win button :rolleyes:

Some of the animations are better than regular ones, some are worse. I really don't want to see them implemented.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: cmp on June 26, 2012, 03:03:23 pm
They look good.... for a robot.
No, thanks.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Kafein on June 26, 2012, 03:05:57 pm
Totally hate those animations.

They are even more visually unclear and confusing than those of WoTR alpha, and I thought that wasn't possible.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Frell on June 26, 2012, 03:56:44 pm
If they cant instantly pull back a new swing after swinging then they're fine.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Bulzur on June 26, 2012, 05:15:56 pm
The instastab is... woho... i surely don't want it.

Can you even chamber with such horrible animations ? It's way too quick. It would only lead to block/block/block/block....
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Elindor on June 26, 2012, 05:35:05 pm
I think its the abrupt nature of them as was stated by someone.

They look more fluid in their arcs and with more wrist usage, which is nice - but yeah they seem to go from stopped to full speed instantly so that curve would need to be altered.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Miwiw on June 26, 2012, 05:38:52 pm
To be honest, I dont like it.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Canary on June 26, 2012, 05:53:12 pm
Remember that day we had that polearm stab in cRPG?

It was nightmarish. Longer range and less time from chamber to full extension. Imagine it with a 200+ length weapon. It was too good.

It made it incredibly difficult to aim the tip in third person because your character was completely in the way, though.

The polearm sideswings were at one time what we had for horseback hafted blades, too. They looked out of place and made it difficult to gauge where your swing was going to go.

Any changes in animations for melee will shift the balance of the meta-game, overhauling all of them would result in an entirely different gameplay experience. They wouldn't "fix" cRPG, in other words, they'd just change it at its core. That's not necessarily good or bad, but I don't feel as though the animations from this specific pack presented here would do anything but make the mod worse, not to mention silly looking.

If someone found or made alternatives, however, I'm sure the dev team would take a look at least. (hint: this is your opportunity! Start working, animators!)
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Elmetiacos on June 26, 2012, 06:04:31 pm
My impression generally is that the more animations are added, the more problems are likely to be created affecting actual play.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: San on June 26, 2012, 06:24:28 pm
Those animations were proposed last year and there were some problems with them. One animation at a time like the spear+shield might work, but I'm sure the devs already looked at these animations.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: autobus on June 26, 2012, 06:39:31 pm
Quote from: chadz on June 24, 2012, 02:12:17 pm
Don't fix it if it ain't broken
Nuff said.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Canary on June 26, 2012, 06:54:06 pm
Quote from: Kikimoure on June 26, 2012, 06:39:31 pm
I quote people out of context because I am a professional.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Vicious666 on June 26, 2012, 07:12:46 pm
we need more animations?  yes

we need this one?  GOD NO THEY SUCK
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Macropus on June 26, 2012, 07:18:58 pm
I prefer the native animations. These would make blocking more difficult, but not attacking. So any fight will consist of everlasting spam attacks.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: DrTaco on June 26, 2012, 07:23:45 pm
Oh god the fucking 2h swings... That made me cry.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: engurrand on June 26, 2012, 08:30:29 pm
Quote from: Kulin_ban on June 26, 2012, 11:37:41 am
After a bit of testing I can conclude that these animations have been well thought of.

There are no random things in it:

1. Animation ends where it starts, so everything is very fluid and natural
2. Combat is always "hanging in the air", since blocking, visually, is similar to readied attack
3. Chamber block animations (on end of video) are also very natural since attack starts as block almost
4. Feinting looks very fluid and circular, and there is also much wrist joint action with 2h swords, as it is supposed to be.
5. Whole combat is based on fast and short-timed strikes, again just like in real life

Demonstration video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxX9gsm9xqc)

I was talking bout this few weeks ago and asked somewhere if there was any way to see if this animation mod would work with CRPG...

i read that you could test it out on crpg but might get script errors because the hit box partly uses the collision of animation pieces (??).

So you have tested it on crpg mod?

What would be cool is if we had the option by pressing X to cycle through many different forms of animation.

PS, get in touch with the original modded and ad this to his example videos to earn some favor.

Also you can notice around 2:36 how you swing left and are still using old animation style attempts to "speed" up the swing. So there would be a whole new class of mouse movement paths made to increase animation speed, for the arcs are totally different.

That is why we should look at expanding the "alternate mode" key to make it so that we might be able to cycle through a lot of different animation types.
Right now some weapons like 2 handed swords have pole arm and regular 2 handed, well what if we have like 2handed_alt_1, 2handed_alt_2... as an example.
This would definitely add "variety" to some fighting because people could use many different animation types and manually select between them, allowing a whole new domain of visual recognition and stuff.

and those who are good with the current system can keep using it and see how they fair.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Zanze on June 26, 2012, 08:38:59 pm
No gusta. They look terrible.
Title: Re: Could different animations fix cRPG?
Post by: Huey Newton on June 26, 2012, 09:29:42 pm
People will just complain the attacks are too fast and lobby for speed nerf within the first day