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cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: Ronin on June 23, 2012, 11:06:31 pm

Title: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on June 23, 2012, 11:06:31 pm
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Prologue
First of all welcome to my guide. This is my first self-created guide in crpg forums, hope you will like it. Additionally, english is not my native language so I hope you ignore the grammatical and typing stuff.
The main reason why I started playing as a hoplite is, I got bored. So I tried STF, get frustrated at first then it turned out to be amazing. After seeing myself successful and not seeing any similiar guides, I thought to myself "why I do not write the thing myself?"


Disclaimer
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"By the Sword and By the Spear!"

What is a Hoplite?

Hoplite (Greek: Hoplites) is a troop used in ancient greece times, mainly as heavy infantry. Alexander The Great used hoplites as the backbone of the army and achieved great success. Moreover, if my sources aren't completely rubbish, some philosophers in ancient greece took place in the army as hoplites. In cRPG, the players who use spear alongside with a shield are called hoplites. Since this game is not focused on the ancient greek times, but takes place in the Medieval Era; where levied poor folks mostly used spear alongside with a shield, hoplites are mainly considered as "lame" infantry not "heavy" infantry. In cRPG they are called as "spartans" or "phalanxes".
Note: I might be wrong with these. Not really that sure.

Then why play as hoplite? I mean why we use a spear alongside with a shield?

There are many answers to this. But bee sure of that, not all of them are "but it's fuuun" :)

But of course, the first one is "it's so much fuuun" :D

As for other reasons, the main advantage of hoplite is, it allows to user to have a long weapon and a shield; both at the same time! So if we think of that, it can even be considered as cheating. After all your weapon has more reach than greatswords and you basically have an omniblock machine who also protects you from arrows and other nasty flying objects.
The sad part is, what above are exactly true; there are also these factors: you have low damage capabilities and you can only attack from one direction. That attack direction is thrust attack, which can be the worst of all 4 directions that it can glance easily and leaves the attacker with a nasty stun when trying to recover from the swing.

I think these explanations define the role of a hoplite. Hoplite is a supporting class. It is for those who value the teamplay, which explains why the number of Hoplites is so low.

Hoplite Game Mechanics
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-The speed bonus has it's most impact on thrusting attack overall (mostly because damage is low and mainly pierce damage, I presume). So, you will deal more damage when you are faster.
-Turning speed is nerfed and polestagger is removed. Yes, these were truly an asset to the hoplite. But real men doesn't require cheap tricks to success!
-Polearms lose 15% of their damage and swing speed when they are used with a shield. Eh, everything has it's tradeoff.
-Yet they gain more reach when used with a shield. For polearm animations:
Quote from: Arkonor on January 28, 2012, 06:51:38 am
Polearms :
+0   Stab
+15 Overhead
+23 Right
+15 Left
+30 If you stab while mounted or holding a shield
Meaning you get extra 30 reach compared to normal pole thrust.
-All spears deal pierce damage. Which means you can still be effective against heavily armored foes if you strike hard (with either high power strike or high speed, perhaps both). Hitting the head, or legs (if not highly protected) can be a good idea too.

Overview
Now a brief overview
Pros
+ Long Reach - Awesome for teamwork in melee combat
+ Shield
+ Good Defensive Capabilities - both for you and your teammates - The ability of reinforcing shieldwalls - The ability of protecting yourself from ranged fire
+ Good in crowd combat
+ Being percieved as weak, in the eye of others (generally speaking). Underestimated mostly in 1v1
+ Anti-cavalry

Cons
- Low damage comparatively (though it makes it up with great reach, pierce damage and speed bonus)
- Slow attack speed
- Not for newbies
- Can be considerably weak in low levels (might not be true after lvl20 server)
- Relies on teamwork to be successful, therefore the team itself (does still better than cavalry and ranged without teammates)

As it can be seen, hoplite class offers an advantage in every type of combat and has a mechanism to counter every type of class (ranged, cavalry and infantry). This is what makes hoplite quite powerful, and the most powerful type of infantry in my opinion.

Builds
"Then we fight in the shades"
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Athenian
The Champion of Pallas Athene
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Hypaspist
The Champion of Ares
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Spartan
The Champion of Ares
(click to show/hide)

Battle Hardened Hoplite
The Champion of Ares
(click to show/hide)

Equipment
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"Troy conquered by dory"

Your equipment should consist of 3 or 4 parts: spear, shield and armor. Additionally, you may want to use a 1handed sidearm.
Dory
Now, in here, I will tell you of remarkable spears that can be used with a shield.

Sheatable Spears

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If you're planning to use your 1handed weapon, more than usual, you might want to pick one of those. This way, you won't have to drop your spear to the ground when you want to use your 1handed.

Red Tassel Spear and War Spear - Their only difference is 1 point of damage and 1 point of speed. Both are very useful, but are very similiar. If you want to play as a regular 1handed-shielder, but also do well against cavalry these are the best weapons for you. They do good mainly with all build. They can be swing in 4 directions when not being used with a shield.

Double Sided Lance - It is a good choice for those who do not want to have a very long attacking reach. It has  very good damage capabilities, and average speed. It might be short among other spears but it's definitely not a short weapon. With a shield, it has a range closer to the greatswords (should a bit more longer). Can be a very good choice for a hoplite, it's a bit expensive though. It can be swing in 4 directions when not being used with a shield.

Battle Fork - It has a bit more reach than the Double Sided, but a bit slower. There is not much of a difference in two of them. A difference that it can be swing in 2 directions when not being used with a shield.

Unsheatable Spears

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If you're thinking of using a spear mainly, then the best choice for you might be among these. Of course, do not get the meaning that you are abandoning your one handed weapon if you use an unsheatable spear. It is completely doable to drop your sper, switch to your one handed, finish your job, then take the spear from the ground, and continue. Do not forget that, your life does not depend on picking your spear from the ground as well. Sometimes you can not return to the place where your spear is, if that happens you can leave it where it is and play with your sidearm; simply as a shielder.

Ashwood Pike - The most balanced weapon for a hoplite and the best choice if you ask me. It's not short or long, slow or fast. The damage is also pretty good. Suits well to all builds.

Bamboo Spear - The one with the lowest damage, but also the longest and the cheapest. If you're a fan of length, try it. It's completely not useless and is worth giving a chance. I have used one of these, it is possible to tickle the enemy from afar only to leave them open to a devastating blow from a Danish Greatsword. I have used this in a strategus battle (siege-defenders side), I was the one who can push the enemy ladders that my teammates could not reach, and the one to weaken the enemy soldiers when they think they're out of our melee range. Simply: deserves a chance.

Light Lance - Although not as long as the bamboo, it has a better damage. It might be the best choice for those who find bamboo doing pretty low damage, but also want to strike from afar.

Lance - Now this is a really slow weapon, but has a better damage and a better bit of a length compared to the Light Lance. If you tried both bamboo and light lance, but didn't like them; maybe try this as well.


*You must take weapon weight into account too. As your weapon is longer and heavier, it will be harder to turn it once you released your attack.*

Aspis (Hoplon)
Shields I'd advise you to use here. Do not forget that those that are 8 weight or higher take two slots, the lighter ones require 1 slot. Bucklers require 0 slot.

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Board Shield - The best shield for Hypaspist in my opinion. The 3 shield skill will allow you to get no better shield. Those that are less expensive than this shield, will generally splinter rather fast. Also it is like a wooden door, that you don't need to concern of coverage. It weighs 8, but if you want to use this shield, you're already a Hypaspist that only uses spear+shield. Your only concern could be Skilled Arbalestiers that can penetrate your shield, but since you will have high amount of HP and armor this is less of a threat.

Other Shields - If you stick with the path of Athenian, I'd suggest using one of these shields. Sword+Shield+Spear requires you to use no heavier than 1 slot shields. Since you will have 7 shield skill (or 6 depending on your choice) you won't require a heavier shield. For the Hoplite look, Elite Cavalry might be a good option.

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Steel Buckler and Round Steel Buckler - I think these deserve a special mention, because of their unusual style. With 7 shield skill, they will last long and protect you fairly well. Even though, be prepared they can be torn to pieces faster than others. Despite their weakness, they are a good choice due to their low weight and blocking speed. Not a weak choice.

2 slot shields, they are certainly fine now if you are not planning of hybridizing. Even if you want to be a hybrid, you can still use a 0 slot sidearm as there are quite good ones now.

Xiphos - Kopis
Your 1handed sidearm.

You can pick whichever you want, it's your own choice. If you have a low STR character, blunt and pierce are the best choices; or a high damaging axe might be a good choice. If you insist of using a sword, high damaging swords such as arabian cavalry sword or military cleaver are the choices for you. Since you have good athletics in that occasion, thrust oriented swords such as Long Espada Eslavona are useful as well.
Note that: Iron War Axe requires 16 STR, so you can not use it with the Athenian build.
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Note that, now there is a new mechanic called dagger quick draw; which you can use with "N" key. This mechanic; If you have a dagger, allows you to equip it quickly by pressing the N key. If you are having timing difficulties when drawing your sidearm out, you can try using a dagger as a sidearm. Needless to say, all daggers are 0 slot and are quite capable in melee even without any wpf invested in one handed weapons. It can be a very good way to fight back when you are forced to do 1v1.


The good thing with the upkeep is, even with 1 wpf; the chances for your sidearm to be broken is dependent on the highest wpf value in melee. Meaning that if you have 140 wpf in polearms but only 50 wpf in one handers, it will break as often as your spear; no worse.


Linothorax
Armour
Just wear what you want. Note that, High STR builds seem to favor the heavier armor types; especially those who are not relying on manueverability such as the Hypaspist. For AGI based characters medium armor or light armor is generally better. All in all, it is your choice.

Gameplay and Strategy
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"Live by the sword, die by the sword. What about the spear?"

Follow the main group
Do not forget this, you only have one attack direction. So, in 1v1 your foe can easily block your attacks with an automatically made downwards block. If you want you can always use a side arm or swing your spear with two hands, but if you want to do 1v1 character; let me remind you that you have choosen the worst guide to read.


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Because of this, always follow the main group. Teamfights are where you will truly shine.

Follow the course of battle
As a supporting class, learn to follow the battle. Here you go, a simple question: in which way do you think the main group will go?
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The right side seems a bit abandoned.
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Whereas there are folks dancing here. Take a look at this adversary, he's truly dancing among my teammates. My poor teammates fail to hit him, they need my help.
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When I took this SS, that skilled foe was about to jump between my friends. I estimated his move, and stabbed him in the arse from afar. I couldn't take the picture of it at that moment, but I can say that he didn't survive against the angry mob after my hit. If I wasn't there, I do not think our foe would survive at all. Because he was vastly outnumbered. But at least, I stopped him from causing some harm or even bringing death to my teammates. I removed the threat instantly.

The ability of observing the battlefield and generally sticking to your teammates also offers you the power of being in the right place in the right time. This way you won't be the straggler (noob) to be easy prey to the wolves (cavalry). This is something easier to achieve with a high AGI oriented character such as the Athenean and Spartan, but characters similiar to Hypaspist would better do their best to estimate the course of battle a bit earlier.
Do not forget that the teammate you're sticking with can die as well. If you're sticking with newbies, they may die fairly quick leaving you alone and susceptible for an attack. So it is better to stick with the main crowd, rather than following a single teammate. Even if you follow a very experienced player, he might die to arrows or crossbow fire.

Crowd battles
Now, similar to all shielders; stay in defensive stance most of the time. Whenever you get a chance to strike, then strike! If an enemy has picked you as a main target and getting closer, try not to retaliate just defend with your shield, unless you are sure you outnumbered him. Wait for one of your teammates to attack him, so his attention will be towards your ally. When his offensive attention is not on you anymore, PUNISH HIM :twisted:

Change targets
In a fight, do not attack the same enemy always. If you make the situation 1v1, your enemy will just downblock. Pick different targets so you won't raise their awareness.
Let's say it is a 2v2 fight. Naturally you paired off with the enemy. It is a golden rule in melee to attack the opponent of your ally, rather than yours. Your advantage here is, it is easier to this as a hoplite due to great reach.

If you are sure your attack is going to get blocked, don't bother attacking at all. Hold your attack by forcing him to defend or switch targets.

Know your teammates
Your best allies are, twohanders/polearmers, maulers are even better. They have a good reach and have the best damage, so they never give the enemy the chance to play offensively. When the enemy can not kill one of you fast enough, they will have to deal with 2 attackers at once quickly.

Additionally when holding a place, there is a trick you can do with your teammate. You stay in front and your ally hides behind a wall. You pull the enemy towards you, they generally think you as an easy target and rush in, your ally crack their skullbones with a maul. Sometimes the enemies don't rush in, but they always got their skullbones crashed in the end.
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Also for archers and especially crossbowmen, they are not your best friend but you certainly are for them. Both being anti-cav(defensive) and anti-ranged(defensive), you can protect them from most of the threats. Just try not be outnumbered and retreat when needed.

Protect your teammates from the evils of arrows
As a shielder, do your duty, prevent the ranged missiles to do harm to your teammates as much as possible. But when doing this, also do not forget about the first rule. If you and your crossbowman friend are about to be attacked by 4 infantrymen, do not stay there. If your ally is not running away it's his own fault not yours. Two of you would just die if you try to defend him, which has to be a sucker noob anyway.

Shieldwalls
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The most efficient way to protect your teammates against arrows, is forming up a shieldwall. The benefits of a shield wall is, you will stay together as a large group and shield bonus makes your shields much more durable that it surely becomes a wall. As a shield using lad, take your place in the shieldwall.

Confined spaces
In places where not many place to move, your spear will be less of use. These are tight corridors, gatehouses, towers, passages etc. Since it will be most likely crowded, if you're trying to hold the position against the enemy, there will be teammates everywhere. So you won't be able to move fast to get the benefit of speed bonus, and if you're not in the frontline there will be teammates always staying or jumping in front of you. Try to using your shield as a main tool in these places, hold the frontlines if possible. If there are any, use your sidearm. If there's not, try to defend a certain position, and use your spear only when an opportunity presents itself.

The wooden door with holes
Another advantage of using a long weapon is, you can always attack through the wooden doors that has holes in it. With a bit of a practice, you can easily get the hang of this.
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When you're attempting to do this action, there will be mostly some enemies behind (heh :P ). So there might be also some archers, throwers etc. So don't overdo it, or they will aim at you. Do it when they are not expecting it, and... don't overdo it.

Use your autoblock
Your shield can stand up against everything but mauls, use it. Hold down passageways, push into enemy formations when needed. The general shielder rules apply here, be in move constantly to not get kicked. When you have been attacked while your spear is equipped, backpedal and hold right mouse button until someone helps you or create an opportunity to switch to the other weapon (or weaponmode, such as twohand-polearm). It is generally hard to do well in 1v1 with a spear. Although it can be hard, it is not impossible too.

Tricks and tips to do 1v1
It is quite possible to do 1v1 as a hoplite, although it is generally a bit harder.

1-Unless you are using a very short and fast spear, you can get spammed. However by excellent footwork you can avoid being spammed even while using a comparatively bigger spear. There is a trick which helps against everyone. If they can not put you in the center of their screen, they can not attack you. So there's your chance, try to strafe to the sides all the way so they will have a difficult time putting you in the center of their screens. This will cause them a delay in their attacking, which is more than enough to give you the time required to attack them back. By using this method, you can even catch them off guard if they think they can just spam you. With this method, you can fight back against those pesky maulers. Their heavy weapon weight will be turned against them, as they will not be able to change their attack direction fast enough when you strafe to the sides. Dodging with this technique against a maul overhead is guarenteed! You can hit them easily that way!

2-Always avoid making them to get ultimately cose to you. They must not facehug you, or your attacks will get glanced early in the animation; which is even worse as it will cause you a stun for a long period of time, long enough for you to get hit. Using the above trick will automatically solve this problem, however you need to be careful still. If the enemy is just facehugging you, defending with your shield is your best option.

3-Kick can be your friend. If someone is at close range and you are sure of it's movement, then use kick. Can be pretty rewarding as you have the longest weapon probably, thus the enemy will be coming close to you most of the time. Use at your own risk though.

4-Learn how make your attacks hit early in the animation. This is even called lame by many people, but it is the only way you can fight back in 1v1 most of the time. This one is hard to tell really and requires some practice. To explain it in simple ways; you need to begin your attack in the right or left side, and then to turn it swiftly towards your opponent. This is the basic definition of it. Observing good hoplite players when they are doing it and trying to do the same thing is the best method of learning I can tell you of.

5-The nudge button. I am still not quite good at using it the way it is supposed to be used I think, but it certainly looks like a mechanism worth learning.
Defend+Nudge - Probably the nudge you will use most commonly. It can be good to push back opponents if you want to put some distance. It can be used with great effect in siege, to push back the enemy from the walls. Though it is very slow that you need to be sure that you will not get hit. I think it is best to use this nudge like you would use an attack, meaning that you better use it right after you block your opponent's blow (like you would do an attack)
Attack+Nudge - Very much the same with defend nudge, the only differense is it pushes your opponent to the left side and is a bit quicker.
Nudge - Can be good to interrupt your opponent, when your opponent is swarmed by your teammates. Can be better than a kick as you can use it while still moving. And it can be better versus other nudge types for a situation like this (your opponent being swarmed), as the other nudges tend to push your opponent way too much that your allies can not hit your opponent.

6-Using sidearms. Well I explained how to use sidearms already, you can either pull out a sword, axe, mace etc. with changing weapons; if you are confident that you will not get hit during the weapon changing process. Or you can quickly draw a dagger. It can be certainly useful to surprise your opponent.

7-Jump attacking can be an option sometimes. Jumping gives you some room for attacking. Can be good as a plan B.

Know your Weaknessess and Strengths
Know your advantages against other classess so you can abuse them. Know your disadvantages, so you can avoid them.

Hoplite and other classes
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Infantry
Thinking 1v1, you are always at a slight disadvantage. If you go with the build Athenian or something similiar, I suggest using sword+shield. If you choose something like the Hypaspist, you have to rely on your heavy armor and spear. Since this is one on one fight, you can put the shield on your back.
However, you can turn the tides in a teamfight if your allies can withstand against the enemy.

As the two types of infantry, shielder and non-shielder. Shielders are always harder to pick off in team fight, but they are also less of a threat to you either. Unlikely non-shielders are easier to pick off in a team fight, but they pose a larger threat to you as well. Two handers can devastate you with an overchamber, so be extra careful about this possibility.

Archer and Crossbower
If you choose the Athenian path, your shield can protect you from them and with good athletics you will be able to chase them. Even though you can't catch them, they won't be able to kite you either. But never be arrogant, you can not actively deal with two ranged offensively at once. You will just be crossfired.
If you're Hypaspist, I don't think chasing them will offer any results. Also do not forget your shield can be penetrated by bolts. All in all, your shield generally offers a good protection against ranged but against DaveUKR, I think it can only reduce it's effects.
But don't forget with, 30 STR, 7 ironflesh, heavy armor and a board shield YOU'RE A FUCKIN TANK MAN!

The general rule is, you are not advantegous against ranged at all, but they're not to you either. You're simply a defensive counter to them, not offensive. This game uses a rock-paper-scissors logic, but it uses very different version of it; not a straightforward one. Well so, you won't have to worry about archers as other classes, but they probably won't worry about you as well. Unless you trapped them in a corner :twisted:

Cavalry
It can be said, you are at an advantage at them but not a very significant one. Similar to archers, you are a defensive anti-mechanism to them and similar to archers you can get harmed by them if you're not covering your sides. But all in all, they have to get close and risk their lifes to be effective while archers are not.
In a fair situation they should not be able to beat you. Never. You can hit their horses to stop them before they can hit you. Be careful though, if you're using a short spear such as double sided lance. Don't forget that hitting their horses do not disrupt them whem they're attacking you. Also, if you have to deal with 2 cavalry this can be serious threat. Even if you can fight against them efficiently, they can be dangerous.

Thrower
If you're an Athenian, you are at a big advantage, you can even be their nightmare. No matter what shit they throw at you, your shield won't break. Which means a waste of ammo for them But the funniest part is, throwers have to get into close range to be effective. Even worse, they generally have to have a high STR value to be effective; meaning they will have lesser AGI than you. Once they got close, you can kill them before they can throw a mace in yer face, thanks to your long attack range. If they try to run away, you are faster than them.
If you're Hypaspist, your shield might not stand up for long or it will be heavily damaged in the end. Even if that may not be a problem for you, you hardly pose any threat to them either.

Horse archer and Horse Crossbowman (and perhaps horse throwers?)
Yes you have a shield, but that will give you less protection compared to other forms of ranged. Because missile cavalry do not fight fair. They will try to flank you and try to put some arrows into your back or sides; mostly when you're trying to fight with the enemy.

If it turns out to be a duel with the missile cavarly, than it means they're gambling. They would try to bump+shot you, or shot you in your first attempt of attack. To prevent this rare occasion, try to manuever and be a hard target for them. Be on the move, go into their blind areas if possible. Just make them miss or not be able to shot you, the rest is easy.

Maulers
These are your biggest nightmare. If possible, don't allow them to get into close range. Once he is close enough, he can just block your attack and crush your bones. Or worse, they can chamber block you easily. Or worse, they get into close range to make your attacks glance and your bones crushed. If you have to fight with them 1v1, using spear+shield is the last thing to do. Other than that, they are the classical vulnerable 2handers in a team fight and are slow mostly because of wearing heavy armor.

I have already told you of a method how to deal with maulers. Now it is a class that I can deal with great ease. They are easier to deal with, compared to other type of infantry once you learned how to fight against them.

Game Modes
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Based on my experience, hoplite can do well in all gamemodes in different ways. You just need to change your tactics and strategy sometimes.

Battle
In battle, you can be very useful. First of all, follow the main crowd and utilize yourself in the teamfights. Sometimes even tickling your enemies is enough. Protect your teammates from cavalry, from ranged missiles. Protect them as much as you can, but firstly protect yourself and survive. Don't play the lone wolf. Participate in shieldwalls.

Siege
In siege, you won't have to stick with the main force. Because there will not be any. There will be places where the main battle takes place instead. Just try to be useful at these main fights. Since it is a semi-deathmatch gamemode, you can hardly have a problem to find an ally to stick with. Also, you can do the trick with the wooden door. Other then that, there are more places where less manueverability is offered so you can switch to another weapon or find a more defensive role. Hypaspist is a very strong character for the siege, but Athenean is not weak either.

Strategus
If you can find a spear to use with a shield, then you can be hoplite and will do very well in that case. Especially in sieges, you can be very effective due to your long attacking reach. Your only problem can be finding a spear, since not everyone knows this ancient power and craft good items intentionally for hoplites. However, you can play as 1hand+shield and/or polearmer depending on your build as efficiently as others, so it is not a grave situation either.

Though the metagame now appreciates hoplites, it is generally common to find a decent spear in battles.

Rageball
In rageball, the most important factor is to hit the enemy and cause him to drop the ball. Additionally, many people wear light armor in rageball; you can deal much better damage to them. Hypaspist might be a bit slow for this gamemode so it is better suited for defensive roles, but Athenean can be really useful in all roles including the keeper.

Defend the Virgin
You don't have to play as hoplite, just because you're hoplite. Similar to strategus, you can use 1hand+shield, polearm, pike, spear+shield whatever you are proficient with. Since you are playing against bots, individual fighting skills and stats offer less of use here. The strategy is important.
While I was a horse archer, with 0 PS, 0 ATH, 0 IF and 1 wpf in poles; I have played with a pike and I was truly useful. Use what you wish. Just make it work, and don't die like a stupid noob.

Duels
Duels?Well.. good luck with that.

Scores
"Seeing is believing"

If you still do not believe me that hoplites can be useful, let me show you how efficient it could be.

Eu 3 - Siege - Attackers/Defenders
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Strategus - Siege - Defenders (After finding a deadly bamboo spear on the ground, everything has changed)
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Sultan Eren - Duel
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Of course scores prove nothing, what I'm trying to show here is; hoplite can achieve good results. It is not a weak class as many think. It is the only evidence I can show. So what I mean here is not that you can make good scores in all the time, I'm trying to show it is possible to achieve good results. Just play well with it.


Good Luck!

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Thanks
-To Sultan Eren, for showing me the Hypaspist build
-To Turboflex, for saying which shields are 2 slot
-To callahan9119, for advising me to use the Light Lance
-To Arkonor, for showing weapon reaches


I will improve this guide as the time passes. I also tried to correct my weird english as much as I can. It's all for now though.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ramza on June 23, 2012, 11:18:46 pm
Very informative and inspired me to make a hoplite. Bookmarked for future use.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Sultan Eren on June 24, 2012, 01:54:36 am
Hoplites of all clans, unite!  :idea:
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Zanze on June 24, 2012, 10:08:49 pm
Very well written. Have a pseudo hoplite this gen, going full hoplite the next. Am basically following the Athenian build to the teeth, except running 5 IF 5WM instead of 7 and 3. Purchased a +1 light lance from the market for dirt cheap simply for that 1 extra damage point. Going to have to flip a coin on whether or not to loom my shield or sidearm first.

Also, I just want to give a BIG hint hint on how the athenian build WILL hit hard. I showed off on the Duel server the other day where someone thought speed bonus was useless. He wore a coat of plates, I stabbed him in the chest while immobile. ~15% damage. Ran back, charged forward and added a jump at the end for some flair. ~60% of his health gone in that one hit. That was also with him being immobile. I have no doubt he would have died if he was charging at me as well. That was a BODY hit. Once you master the control of your spear, 80% of your hits should either meet their face, or if they have wrapping boots and plate armor, their feet.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: JackieChan on June 25, 2012, 12:14:25 pm
nice guide  :wink:
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 pm
Thanks :D

Quote from: Zanze on June 24, 2012, 10:08:49 pm
Very well written. Have a pseudo hoplite this gen, going full hoplite the next. Am basically following the Athenian build to the teeth, except running 5 IF 5WM instead of 7 and 3. Purchased a +1 light lance from the market for dirt cheap simply for that 1 extra damage point. Going to have to flip a coin on whether or not to loom my shield or sidearm first.

Also, I just want to give a BIG hint hint on how the athenian build WILL hit hard. I showed off on the Duel server the other day where someone thought speed bonus was useless. He wore a coat of plates, I stabbed him in the chest while immobile. ~15% damage. Ran back, charged forward and added a jump at the end for some flair. ~60% of his health gone in that one hit. That was also with him being immobile. I have no doubt he would have died if he was charging at me as well. That was a BODY hit. Once you master the control of your spear, 80% of your hits should either meet their face, or if they have wrapping boots and plate armor, their feet.
That is exactly true. This is another reason why the hoplite can be powerful. It basically pierces through even the heaviest of armors with good speed bonus.. Since pierce weapons are generally shorter to their cutting counterparts, it is another good part of being a hoplite. You have much more reach.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Miwiw on June 25, 2012, 01:02:53 pm
Nice guide. I'll make sure to get an alt with a similar build. Just need to make me creating an alt. :D
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Elmuri on June 25, 2012, 01:10:01 pm
Very great guide!
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: [ptx] on June 25, 2012, 01:21:51 pm
Protip - try using first person view at times, gives much better precision and control. Works great, when you are surrounded by allies on both sides in a line vs line clusterfuck or have to make stabs through and around hard obstacles. Especially true when stabbing through portcullis'es (the holed gates, lol).
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on July 03, 2012, 02:43:43 pm
Thanks for the guide, made a Sultan Eren build inspired STF char and had loads of fun as heavy spearman.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 03, 2012, 04:59:11 pm
You forgot to mention the "Spear" once i made an hoplite with a mw Spear 21/18 it was awesome
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: SeaRaider_jizzimp on July 06, 2012, 02:51:39 pm
awsome guide. I think aim gonna make an hoplite, only spear, alt, char  =D
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on July 09, 2012, 06:21:54 pm
Quote from: sF_Leonidas on July 03, 2012, 04:59:11 pm
You forgot to mention the "Spear" once i made an hoplite with a mw Spear 21/18 it was awesome
Please explain a bit more. What was your playstyle, strategy. I'd like to give it a try :)

By the way, some new extra add-ons will be coming shortly. It is just, that I have learned even more things about hoplite. But fear not, you'll get a full changelog so you won't have to look for the extra parts :wink:
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Zanze on July 10, 2012, 05:09:33 am
Regular spear can't rear horses and I don't trust fear factor alone to keep cav away :(

Otherwise, good stuff. Light Lance is still OP for this =D
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 10, 2012, 06:19:53 pm
Quote from: Ronin on July 09, 2012, 06:21:54 pm
Please explain a bit more. What was your playstyle, strategy. I'd like to give it a try :)

By the way, some new extra add-ons will be coming shortly. It is just, that I have learned even more things about hoplite. But fear not, you'll get a full changelog so you won't have to look for the extra parts :wink:

Ok first I post the full build


LVL 30
STR: 21
AGI: 18

Converted: 8 Skillpoints to 4 Attribute points

Powerstrike: 7
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Weaponmaster: 4


WPF in pole: 138


the stats of a mw spear are

Speed:99
Length: 135
Thrust: 30 Pierce
Swing: 19 Blunt
Weight: 1.4
Upkeep: 258 Gold

My equipment:

MW Spear+ Elite cav shield
Mail gauntlets+ +3 Light Kuyak
Khergit leather boots (^^)
Nordic Helmet

My playstyle was like I used my shield vs archers and when I fought vs noobs until I fought a good player then I ve put my shield on my back (You can't fight good players with 1 Attackdirection) well this generation was epic because I was able to make a hell lot of damage (7 ps with the damage of my spear and the wpf) and I'm still very fast (99/6 ath) and to the point of Zanze
Quote from: Zanze on July 10, 2012, 05:09:33 am
Regular spear can't rear horses and I don't trust fear factor alone to keep cav away :(

Otherwise, good stuff. Light Lance is still OP for this =D
Well if you're good with this Spear then you can reach any horse unless they've a Greatlance then it'll be close but who uses a Greatlance? Next to noone.
Maybe this Spear is for the more experience players dunno
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Strider on July 14, 2012, 08:05:39 pm
Ya i'm definetely trying a hoplite build next gen because of this. Thanks man.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Zanze on July 29, 2012, 05:04:54 am
I just wanted to bump this thread while also adding another bit of information I have gathered this generation as a hoplite. I posted it elsewhere and figured it might be nice here too. Also, this was all measured with an 18/18 build maximizing WM for the extra damage and speed.
(click to show/hide)

Edit: Just want to add a note on the dueling part. There are more broken lampposts out there than I thought when posting this...
Edit for Credibility level: at 10 gens so far.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: fdaslan on August 14, 2012, 05:42:53 am
Quite outdated
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Macropus on August 14, 2012, 06:47:02 am
Very nice information, as well as the whole guide, thank you) This guide is one of the reasons why I became hoplite.
I also want to note some about my experience with build I used for 1 gen, which might be useful for somebody.
I played as 27 12 hoplite, its just a bit different from your Hypaspist build. I think its really good, because sacrifising 1 PS you become able to use almost any shield, which means it wouldn't be a problem to find another shield on battlefield if yours is broken.

I used War Spear, which in my opinion has following pros and cons:
Pros:
1) Low range. You CAN duel as hoplite. Even with shield and being a noob like me you can have 1/1 kd on EU 3. (Note that you will never kill professional and patiens players who won't just try to spam you but will concentrate on downblock or total chambering your thrusts).
I can say for sure that people underrate hoplites as duellers, sometimes they consider you as easy prey and that might be their fatal mistake. Some people believe in their holy right to attack you back after your blow and don't expect you to continue your attacks, which allows you to (I know it sounds weird) SPAM with your thrust, sometimes making up to 3(!) strikes in a row which almost always would mean dead enemy.
2) Side swings. When in battle you meet an enemy 1-1 its very good to put your shield on your back and land few unexpected side blows. Or when your shield is broken in battle and enemies think you became weaker... - you actually became stronger.

Cons:
1) Low range. Not too low, actually. With some timing and footwork it is still pretty good for horserearing and or even killing a rider (if he rides by and you manage to hit his leg). But such range makes you a bit less effective as support, cause you also have low athletics, and less effective in clusterfuck (if I understood right what this word means), because you can be outreached by other hoplites and greatswords.

... I thought it will be other cons but I cant think of any more disadvantages of this weapon.

PS: and yes, being a hoplite is really funny. I dunno why, but thrusting people is AWESOME  :D
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: fdaslan on September 13, 2012, 03:02:27 am
Bump.

If you are a guy who loves to be in action often, I found Heater Shield to better than Board Shield. It has more HP so it won't break easily. And for the second weapon, I recommend an axe. Even the cheapest axe is OK against shielders.

Now I hava a question. What shall I loom first? Shield or pike?



Edit: Round -> Board
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Joseph Porta on September 13, 2012, 03:17:29 am
I'd say shield because of it's overall use..
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: owens on September 13, 2012, 03:34:40 am
I dont hoplite in cRPG but I recommend spending some time in the duel server and learning your own speed and your enemies reach. Can you dodge the over head and make the spin stab when they are unguarded?

I play hoplite in Native (weapon reach isnt different) and find that warspear is a good length to counter cav any shorter than ~150 it gets dangerous quickly.



Also the quarter staff doesnt get a mention wth? good reach, blunt damage, knockdown and mad speed. It has a very low str requirement which gives you the option of massive athletics WM and of course shield skill.


I created one hoplite(more like Roman legionaire) build actually 7PT 7PS 4shield 4WM 4ath was interesting using a short sword to stab and throwing lances to hoplite with and throw. I used a board shield. It was an experience for me as I only ever play polearm or 2H it amazed me how much damage could actually be done with small weapons and the throwing lances (I carried 2) made heavy 2H a non issue.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: vh0x on November 06, 2012, 10:57:57 pm
Do you need to convert skill points for the first build? The more AGI then STR build?
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: fdaslan on November 07, 2012, 01:00:38 am
Quote from: vh0x on November 06, 2012, 10:57:57 pm
Do you need to convert skill points for the first build? The more AGI then STR build?
Yes, you have to convert 2 skill points to 1 attribute point.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Freland on January 24, 2013, 10:28:52 am
This is a great guide - thumbs up!
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on January 25, 2013, 03:37:12 pm
Gee thanks. I wasn't playing cRPG for a long time, I even had to read my own guide to re-learn all the stuff. But it's nice to see after months, my guide is still at the top :D

By the way, I've seen many hoplites around lately. My old crpg pal said, the reason for this was overpopulated cavalry and archers in servers. Nevertheless, it is good to see people discovered this technique. I still think my guide lacks some balanced builds. I might update the guide a bit, but first I have to play to see what is changed.

Thanks for all of the suggestions, I am anxious to try all of them.

Edit: By the way, some tip I can share: with 7 shield skill and a steel shield, your shield will take no damage from arrows, bolts. You can stay as long as you like against archers, especially useful in DTV; for protecting your teammates from enemy archers. Not even tincans can do any damage with their longbows. Don't count on your shield against heavy shield breakers like bardiche though.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: wanderinghobo77 on January 25, 2013, 08:39:37 pm
Great and fun build, i was inspired to do a hoplite in crpg after i did one in dark souls and found this guide to be absolutely helpful
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on March 01, 2013, 12:23:43 pm
Updated the guide a bit. Added a new build and the gameplay video by teeth. Here are the add-on parts:

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Lotrix on March 03, 2013, 09:54:31 am
What spear does Teeth using in his vid? :D
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Bifi on March 03, 2013, 10:22:56 am
Ashwood Pike
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on March 03, 2013, 12:30:13 pm
Ashwood pike is really great. Definitely my favorite.

Edit: I also saw that lance stats are changed. Did a small update to there, and added iron staff as an option.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Xelaris on April 19, 2013, 08:17:36 am
If you were 1st gen what build and equipment would you chose (aka on the cheap side of things you are first gen, no monies for standard equip) :P
And i have a question on the athenian build. Why not put 100 into 1h and 140 into polearms since 1h are fast by nature?
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Erzengel on April 19, 2013, 09:23:34 am
Polearm: Bamboo Spear, Light Lance (pure hoplite) or Red Tassel Spear (shielder with one handed weapon)
One Handed Weapon (optional): There are lots of good choices. Get a weapon with either pierce, blunt or very high cut damage
Shield: Heavy Round Shield, all other shields with difficulty 4 or 5 are also good for hoplites (besides the Steel Buckler)
Head Armor: Something between 1 and 2 weight
Body Armor: Mail Shirt with Fur and Byrnie offer a good protection for low upkeep/weight. Anything up to 40 body armor will also do the job
Hand Armor: Mail Mittens
Leg Armor: Mail Chausses are a very good choice, but you could also use some cheaper boots since hits in the legs are quite rare

21/15 and 18/18 are good builds if you plan to retire at level 31 (which you should do).

Put all weapon points into polearms if you want a pure hoplite. If you prefer to be a shielder with a Spear as side arm you should only put between 70 and 100 points into polearms and the rest into one handed weapons.



Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on April 19, 2013, 10:47:19 am
So, Teeth must be what the "wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, yeah" line is about...
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Xelaris on April 22, 2013, 08:52:11 pm
Is the normal spear worthy of consideration after the latest update?
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: sdfjkln on April 22, 2013, 09:12:10 pm
Has anyone here tried hopliting w/o Polearm WPF? I thought hoplites used 1h wpf for the longest time so I never used pole wpf....but I still regularly got valour. I guess I would have been more effective, but it seems like having a good understanding of the stab mechanics might be enough to do well.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Xelaris on April 22, 2013, 09:20:01 pm
Check out the 1h shield thread from Help and Guides.
I see a lot of 1h shield these days so yeah, everybody is doing it.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Xelaris on April 24, 2013, 08:55:01 am
What do you think of a dagger as a side weapon for hoplite :D
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: fdaslan on April 24, 2013, 03:55:21 pm
A simple axe works good for me.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Zanze on April 25, 2013, 05:11:38 am
Xelaris, any 1h weapon is a perfect sideweapon. Also, you can use any length spear as a hoplite. The only thing is the length will determine what you want out of it. The shorter the length, the less you can support teammates but the greater you can "duel." By "Duel" I mean pike wiggle and stuff to victory.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Xelaris on April 25, 2013, 08:55:01 pm
Yes, i noticed i can fair decent for a beginner even with a quarter staff or short spear.
I think that the quarter staff is a wonderful weapon actually.
Btw i went all polearm and i am doing better.
My arch enemy is the 2h duelist that has more agility, damn them
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: fdaslan on April 26, 2013, 09:02:12 pm
Quote from: Xelaris on April 25, 2013, 08:55:01 pm
Yes, i noticed i can fair decent for a beginner even with a quarter staff or short spear.
I think that the quarter staff is a wonderful weapon actually.
Btw i went all polearm and i am doing better.
My arch enemy is the 2h duelist that has more agility, damn them
You can top them when you get used to your build.

Edit: Well, the skilled ones can always find a way to kill you tho.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Mammonist on May 18, 2013, 10:25:48 pm
I'm liking hopliting so far, it's an amazing support class. Only it's annoying that your team doesn't get it sometimes and runs away leaving you alone to deal with 1 or more people.

Anyway, someone should make a hoplite clan. Have trainings together and all get bannerbalanced onto the same team. I imagine that 5+ hoplites working together are quite a big deal.   :)
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on May 18, 2013, 10:47:57 pm
Deserters and byzantium are very hoplite disciplined at the moment :)

I'm also trying to make companions more hoplite based too.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Johammeth on May 24, 2013, 08:36:23 pm
Looking for some advice.

I just retired my first hoplite (16/21), and I'm torn between 15/24 and 18/21

I play as a superlight hoplite: Steel Buckler, Bamboo spear, and about 12 total weight. I run around tickling people with my spear from a safe distance, setting up easy kills for my team.

dilemna:

15/24
50 hp
8ath
8shield
147 wpf
29.2 dmg to unarmored target (shield in hand)

vs

18/21
53hp
7ath
7shield
156 wpf
31.6 dmg to unarmored target (shield in hand)

Putting the 3 bonus pts into strength will give me a tiny bit more damage (hopefully fewer glancing blows and therefore more helpful "stuns" for my teammates to capitalize on)...

BUT

24 agility just seems ridiculously zippy (i'm hoping that 8 shield + speed will cover for my squishiness).


I can't decide if the points are more valuable taking STR from 15->18 or AGI from 21->24 and would love to hear some input.

Cheers

Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: fdaslan on May 24, 2013, 10:42:05 pm
Honestly, there is no much differance between 7 agi and 8 agi. I would go for STR with your low armor choice.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: //saxon on May 25, 2013, 12:20:40 am
another con should be :

- Only one attack direction.

Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Johammeth on May 25, 2013, 02:13:25 am
Quote from: fdaslan on May 24, 2013, 10:42:05 pm
Honestly, there is no much differance between 7 agi and 8 agi. I would go for STR with your low armor choice.

Excellent, that's what I was hoping to hear.

A little extra health will go a loonnng way in my sexy paper armor.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Yaro on June 18, 2013, 09:52:33 pm
Hi community! My first post...
So I've been playing a spearman for few weeks now. It is my first character and I'm currently level 31. What I've discovered is that I really like getting kills with a spear, however, I also enjoy going to my sidearm when there is a shield wall in front of me or in close quarters. Can anyone tell me if its viable to spread wpf between 1h and pole? is it possible to be effective at both? what would be a good build for such a character? I opted for 18/18 this generation and balanced all my stats pretty much equally(I even have riding, lol), however i don't think this is the best way to go for a role that i have in mind... would appreciate ya'lls advise.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Lecram on June 18, 2013, 10:14:17 pm
Really nice and helpful guide!  :shock:

Please make more guides like this!  :twisted:
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Macropus on June 18, 2013, 10:28:49 pm
Quote from: Yaro on June 18, 2013, 09:52:33 pm
Hi community! My first post...
Can anyone tell me if its viable to spread wpf between 1h and pole?
It is perfectly viable.
Example:
Code: (Spearman / Shielder) [Select]
Level:           30

Strength:        18
Agility:         18

Skill to attr:    2

Ironflash:        6
Power Strike:     6
Shield:           5
Athletics:        6
Weapon Master:    6

One Handed:     114
Polearm:        123
using cRPG NewGen calc (http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB)
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on August 11, 2013, 12:23:53 pm
Updated the guide a bit,

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Sari on September 10, 2013, 02:37:54 am
This guide inspired me to make Athenian Levy Hoplite. You could guess what build I use for my hoplite.

Great guide, very helpful, and good luck in your next guide.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Killer on September 19, 2013, 10:19:55 pm
I am just about to retire from my first gen and I have just figured out that I am going to use the Athenian build thanks to this guide. Thank you for posting this guide it helped me greatly to decide what class to go for my second gen and probably beyond that :D :D :D :D :D :D :D 
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: owens on October 21, 2013, 11:33:45 pm
Never Forget the lvl 30 21/15 build

7,7,5,5,5

Quick with good damage. Plenty of health and enough wpf to get some 1H
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Achilles_Lakedaimon on December 01, 2013, 10:29:54 pm
Thanks for you guide/tutorial, I will read all of it eagerly!
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Sari on December 29, 2013, 07:49:00 pm
Quote from: owens on October 21, 2013, 11:33:45 pm
Never Forget the lvl 30 21/15 build

7,7,5,5,5

Quick with good damage. Plenty of health and enough wpf to get some 1H

Even with the new wpf calculator?
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: owens on January 03, 2014, 08:16:49 am
^
no
Well yes but only around 80-90 1H wpf and 120 polearm
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Tovi on January 03, 2014, 12:18:18 pm
Quote from: Sari on December 29, 2013, 07:49:00 pm
Even with the new wpf calculator?

Where is the new wpf calculator ?
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on January 03, 2014, 02:17:41 pm
You can use a skip the fun character. Just use respec and assign some weapon master as you like to see the values.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Sari on January 04, 2014, 05:59:49 am
Quote from: Tovi on January 03, 2014, 12:18:18 pm
Where is the new wpf calculator ?

nvm.. :?
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Franke on January 06, 2014, 04:48:55 pm
Would it - after the Agi/wpf patch of december- maybe make sense to rework some of the buils in the OP? I wanted to try out the Spartan build with my hoplite alt but I found 2 WM just not enough...
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on January 06, 2014, 04:49:55 pm
oh yeah I think I'll have to update the guide. Those were planned based on the old formulas.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Franke on January 06, 2014, 04:58:38 pm
I went for 18/18 now with 6 WM, but I have always been a friend of balanced builds, so something else could work well here, too...
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on January 17, 2014, 07:05:59 pm
Updated the builds a "tiny bit" to make them viable with the current wpf values. I think owens' build is a bit better build after this patch, because of it benefit from all of the skills (wm is a more useful skill now).

Owens If you write some useful tips, cons&pros to it I will include your build in the OP :) But give me some details, I didn't really like that build before the patch so I'm not really that familiar with it.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: owens on January 18, 2014, 12:39:13 am
^Yep

Here you go lvl 30    21/15    Battle Hardened Hoplite                                                      If building for 31 or 32 24/15 is the logical progression

str 21  agi 15

wpf in pole 140    or     pole 115 1H 100

IF       7
PS      7
SH     5
WM    5
ATH    5


Capable of lasting a long time and good with both high damage and high reach weapons this is my favorite hoplite build.

I use a MW ashwood however a MW light lance is equally as good if not a little better. MW battlefork is too short for this builds lower movement speed.


I use armour of weight 14.5 with medium gloves. This build has great capability as a bruiser and has the greatest survivability of any hoplite build listed. I use loomed armour to exaggerate this. 5 shield skill is enough to use bucklers and I often carry a 0 slot sword buckler Long bardiche and my ashwood so that I can tango with any opponent. 7PS allows you to not only tag team but to also effectively kill opponents on your own especially with the higher damage spears.   I usually use Elite cavalry shield, ashwood and a messer/falchion, cleaver or pick as a sidearm.


Weak against ranged as they are much faster and can kite you easily although you can take many hits.

Strong vs cavalry and infantry.



You wont be the fastest or hardest hitting hoplite but you will be the one alive at rounds end or at very least last man standing.

Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Sari on January 18, 2014, 12:50:35 am
(click to show/hide)

Maybe I'll try this on my stf. I sounds like a fun build.

Would it go good with either elite cavalry shield or huscarl's shield?
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: owens on January 18, 2014, 12:59:50 am
^both are great


after the elite cav shields buff its lasts a fair bit longer than it used to. Keep in mind that ideally your shield won't be taking all that many hits.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Sari on January 20, 2014, 05:57:01 am
The Athenian and hypaspist stats have the same 15/21
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on January 20, 2014, 06:32:55 pm
Ok I fixed that issue with builds, and added owens' build. Some further add-ons and updates for the item stats will be coming soon.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Jarold on January 21, 2014, 04:06:23 am
An easy way to test how much wpf you get is just to respec a STF real quick.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Sari on January 28, 2014, 06:12:47 pm
Last gen on my hoplite(Athenian build) I went full polearm and I loved to stab fast :D
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Aion on February 05, 2014, 06:27:43 pm
Hey , i just saw this guide today when elmuri linked it to me and a result of this that i respec my main to an Athenian build. For the moment i have 15/15 build at level 24 and im already pleased with the damage i can do already. The speed dmg aspect works very good out , better then i did expect.

I use an one handed axe and a elite cav shield. Further i use the war spear for the moment , prob gonna try the double sided lance and the ashwood in future.

I just want to say thanks for this guide. I have been playing as an hoplite for a generation with an 24/15 build. My hits did hurt but i still glance to much and not enough movement for my playstyle. I have a kind of dancing , side switching movement and i feel this Athenian build gonna make that more possible.

Also you dont have a problem with the wpf really since points in one handed and polearm fill each other up. With 5 wpm i already have 105  in one handed and 107 in polearm , so maybe i gonnae keep those 5 wpm and use the other 2 skill points for iF maybe since i use light / medium armor.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Macropus on February 05, 2014, 11:20:02 pm
Quote from: Aion on February 05, 2014, 06:27:43 pm
Also you dont have a problem with the wpf really since points in one handed and polearm fill each other up. With 5 wpm i already have 105  in one handed and 107 in polearm , so maybe i gonnae keep those 5 wpm and use the other 2 skill points for iF maybe since i use light / medium armor.
I'm fairly sure those 2 skillpoints would be more useful if put in WM. You don't really need IF that much, besides of the fact you have a shield, as a supportive class you are not supposed to get hit very often at all.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Aion on February 06, 2014, 02:11:36 pm
Quote from: Macropus on February 05, 2014, 11:20:02 pm
I'm fairly sure those 2 skillpoints would be more useful if put in WM. You don't really need IF that much, besides of the fact you have a shield, as a supportive class you are not supposed to get hit very often at all.

Well you have a point there indeed. I still was thinking about the 2 skill points. I played some more yesterday and indeed have a feeling some more wpf wont hurt. Further i can reduce the dmg by using better armor  :P. Thanks Macropus.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Ronin on February 06, 2014, 02:25:48 pm
If you're going for a higher level, you can invest those points into an attribute to reach better stats earlier, later on.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Aion on February 15, 2014, 07:21:30 pm
Hey guys ,

I am around 1.8 million exp away from turning to level 30. And i am searching now for a way how i can cuild out my build after level 30 because i am maybe going for the level 33 border.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Zanze on February 23, 2014, 08:33:57 am
If you don't have 7 ath(21 agi) get that. If you don't have 7 PS(21 str) get that. If you don't have either, get the athletics first.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Nightmare798 on February 23, 2014, 08:56:02 am
Hoplites need guide? Wow.
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Smoliv on March 17, 2014, 02:46:18 am
Great guide, now to start levelling ;)
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on April 13, 2014, 12:06:59 pm
Cool guide, lvling my hoplite atm, not sure which build yet  :mrgreen:
Good work
Title: Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
Post by: Killer on April 22, 2014, 03:26:42 am
Great guide i read it a lot since i am trying out a few of the builds from here and i look at the advice a lot too  :D