cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: Corwin on April 01, 2011, 01:15:14 am

Title: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 01, 2011, 01:15:14 am
Isn't there anyone that will teach us noobs how to play? C'mon, Phyrex, Bjord, Xant, Khorin, tell us your secrets! We all know how to practice blocking, but what about offense?



EDIT: And they did answer! Seriously, guys, thank a million, this will probably serve as a textbook for everyone who wants to become good with 2h weapon!
All of this you can find further down the topic, together with many useful comments of many experienced 2handers, but in order to ease the searching here are the tips of these famous or notorious (if you are on the other team) cRPG players!


Bjord:

(click to show/hide)

Phyrex:

(click to show/hide)

Xant:
(click to show/hide)

Random Dude:
(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Gurnisson on April 01, 2011, 01:17:16 am
Feinting, holding, moving the right way, step in and out of range. It all comes with practising and experiencing what works really. :)
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Punisher on April 01, 2011, 01:20:32 am
These 2 videos should get you started, I strongly recommend watching them:

Mount & Blade Warband melee Tutorial by reapy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jHcZjWw9U)
Mount & Blade Warband TDM runs by reapy  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZZnl09qBKM)
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: RandomDude on April 04, 2011, 09:30:26 pm
light hearted flamberge guide in my sig

some of the instructions are useful for all 2 handed weapons, it's very flamberge-specific though
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Christo on April 04, 2011, 09:33:47 pm
These 2 videos should get you started, I strongly recommend watching them:

Mount & Blade Warband melee Tutorial by reapy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jHcZjWw9U)
Mount & Blade Warband TDM runs by reapy  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZZnl09qBKM)

Ah, just wanted to post Reapy's videos here. Good work.

I think that I'll rewatch them. This is some good material you can always come back to, and learn from it.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 04, 2011, 09:42:14 pm
Spend some hours on the duel server and if you manage ok there you should be fine in the normal servers.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Teeth on April 04, 2011, 09:54:29 pm
Phyrex, Bjord and Xant's secrets are obvious.

1. Get a German Greatsword
2. Get an 18/21 ish build,
3. Use stab all the time, all the noobs will die instantly, lol it up a little
4. Get some blocking skills and everyone will die instantly
5. Get it masterworked and keep stabbing
6. Be a cocky asshole in the case of Bjord and Xant
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Opium.dk on April 04, 2011, 09:56:10 pm
Stab like a motherfucker.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 04, 2011, 10:00:04 pm
Dont know why but i mw-ed my danish, bleh stupid mistake why not the german i want that extra stabbity stab sweetness :cry:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on April 04, 2011, 11:44:33 pm
Phyrex, Bjord and Xant's secrets are obvious.

1. Get a German Greatsword
2. Get an 18/21 ish build,
3. Use stab all the time, all the noobs will die instantly, lol it up a little
4. Get some blocking skills and everyone will die instantly
5. Get it masterworked and keep stabbing
6. Be a cocky asshole in the case of Bjord and Xant


Everything said. Nothing to add.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Torp on April 04, 2011, 11:47:49 pm
Phyrex, Bjord and Xant's secrets are obvious.

1. Get a German Greatsword
2. Get an 18/21 ish build,
3. Use stab all the time, all the noobs will die instantly, lol it up a little
4. Get some blocking skills and everyone will die instantly
5. Get it masterworked and keep stabbing
6. Be a cocky asshole in the case of Bjord and Xant

Agreed

For khorin:
1. Get a katana
2. Retire 3 times to get MW katana
3. Get a 15/24 build
4. Block a lot
5. Feint a lot
6. Move even more
7. pwn
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Torak on April 05, 2011, 12:22:40 am
Agreed

For khorin:
1. Get a katana
2. Retire 3 times to get MW katana
3. Get a 15/24 build
4. Block a lot
5. Feint a lot
6. Move even more
7. pwn
and be in the duel server 4 2 weeks and just try to block using chambers
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: CarlSagan on April 05, 2011, 12:29:18 am
As a 2h you have the advantage of weapon length. Taking advantage of this is how to win with 2h. The stab, as everyone said, is your best attack. The stab actually has more length. It's a 20 or so length increase on your stab attack. It is also pierce damage, which is MUCH better than cut. With a decent amount of PS the stab will kill MOST people. You basically want to keep the enemy at the TIP of your sword. Back pedalling and stabbing at the same time is the best attack you have, as most players will walk right into it without blocking and because of the length bonus on the stab, they will underestimate your sword length. The other MOST IMPORTANT THING is to ALWAYS attack their FACE!! If you stab someone directly in the face they will die. You MUST practice this and actually AIM your attacks for their head. Overhands are easy to pull of for a head shot, but the face stab is how you will top the boards. Also, you can stab at close quarters by turning into it. Pull back your stab facing slightly away from your opponent and swing sideways into them, still aiming for thier face, ALWAYS THE FACE. If you can keep far enough away that the only way they can attack you is to walk into your sword tip, you will win. If you don't stay back from opponents and let them get up in your face your stab will wiff and they will be free to attack you. Then you'll be forced to try and outswing/block them, in which case the overhand is BY FAR your best attack. People tend to miss the block on overhands and also it usually wont wiff, besides being damage to the face, which is 3x more powerful. Also, practice chamber blocking. This is a somewhat difficult technique at first (I believe the videos someone posted a link to farther up the page explains it) but if you think about swinging your sword into someone elses weapon instead of the technical aspects of how to chamber block its easier to pull off. It is a very beneficial technique against sword and boarders if they get right up in your face. Watch where they swing their weapon and then swing yours that direction as well it will knock their weapon back and you will be chambered at that point to swing while their shield is still down. The other advise I can give is to always stay calm and slow down. Watch the opponents attacks and always block them instead of hoping to outswing them. Set your mouse sensitivity a little lower and this will help with deliberate blocks/attacks instead of flailing your mouse around hoping to get the desired result. In summary, keep the opponent at the tip of your sword, attack/stab the face (walk backwards and stab at the same time), lower your mouse sensitivity (it's in the options menu in game, try tweaking it till it's right for you. will probably feel weird at first, give it a chance), always block instead of swinging and dying, relax and PWN. Good luck.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Rhaelys on April 05, 2011, 01:46:07 am
(click to show/hide)

I'm certain that this post has very useful information, but man...

WALL OF TEXT
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: CarlSagan on April 05, 2011, 01:51:15 am
Sorry if I am pushing your reading skills to their breaking point... lol jk. Guess I should have spaced it out a little more. Many of you probably know most of that stuff, but if you are starting out at 2h I feel like it's all worth reading.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Xant on April 05, 2011, 11:05:24 am
Phyrex, Bjord and Xant's secrets are obvious.

1. Get a German Greatsword
2. Get an 18/21 ish build,
3. Use stab all the time, all the noobs will die instantly, lol it up a little
4. Get some blocking skills and everyone will die instantly
5. Get it masterworked and keep stabbing
6. Be a cocky asshole in the case of Bjord and Xant

Hmm, so is that jealousy or envy? Or just bitterness that you can never survive more than a second? Maybe a bit rage thrown in there somewhere as flavor?

Quote
Isn't there anyone that will teach us noobs how to play? C'mon, Phyrex, Bjord, Xant, Khorin, tell us your secrets! We all know how to practice blocking, but what about offense?

Best way to practice offense is to play in duel servers and keep trying stuff until you can get through most people's blocks. But as to some specific stuff... thrust is obviously good, but everyone expects it, so it rarely works as a first attack. Rightslash->Spinthrust gets lots of people, though. Also, if you look to the ground and hold your right slash, then change it to a thrust and angle it so that it looks like you've still got the slash chambered... that's a good 'un too. Or you can go back and forth between those two a couple of times to confuse people even more. And despite popular belief, while the thrust works even up close if you spin it, it's far from ideal sometimes. The new animation hits immediately, so there's a good chance you'll stun yourself and then get killed as you're unable to block. I'd also not recommend stabbing against crushthrough weapons or shields (stabbing a shield stuns you often). People also kind of suck at blocking overhead. But there's no single way to do offense, pretty much every good player has their own style. Khorin for one (since you asked) uses a katana, lots of chambers and circling to get past the opponents blocks.

(Btw, disregard what Carl said about backpedaling and stabbing being your best attack. You get a negative speed bonus if you backpedal. It can work if you step forward just as you stab but it's still kinda shitty. You will one hit most people that run towards you though, if you don't have the negative speed bonus.)
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: CarlSagan on April 05, 2011, 11:39:30 am
There is a negative speed boost. I didn't mean your most powerful attack. I meant your BEST attack, meaning the one people will fall for the most. It obviously does less damage if you are walking backwards, but a stab to the face, walking backwards or not, will ruin someones day. You can also step into if you see them miss the block. A good trick is to vary the axis you are swinging. People will be more often to block an overhead after blocking down than they would after a sideswing; or will be less likely to block a sideswing after a stab. Make them move that mouse around erratically to try to block you. If you have the athletics to do so, you can move in and out of their swing range to get them to attack, as long as you realize where their weapon reach ends. If you can get them to swing while you are out of range, its easy to step up and gore them. All your attacks, atleast the ones you intent to kill them with, should be swung into. Even the stabs and overhands. If you do the walking backwards and stab technique AND spin into the stab... the LOLS ensue.

Both footwork and awareness are the two most under appreciated aspects of melee. You must always be positioning yourself out of range of multiple opponents a blocking/attacking the ones that are in range. If you can be aware of all the enemies around you it's much easier to survive. You want to choose which swing to use, somewhat based or your AND your opponents footwork. If your opponent moves to your left, a left swing will hit him more quickly than any other attack. He may be expecting this and naturally throw up that block, in which case you will probably be behind him now if you step past him, and are free to attack his back (over hand works wonders if you are right behind them).
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 05, 2011, 11:44:15 am
Thanks a lot, Xant, I find this information to be very useful. I will practice in line with your advices. The only thing I find hard to master at this point is chamber, but I ' ll try to improve. I can't wait for inputs from Phyrex and Bjord, if they see the topic and decide to respond.

I am now a second generation, and have a Tempered German Greatsword. In the fisrt gen I messed it up, I went 15/24 and with GG it took too many hites to drop anyone. Also, I was a bigger noob than now. The excepttion was left slash across the face to those who dont wear a helmet - btw, why do people do that?

Now I am 21/17 - going for lvl 30 21/18, with 144 WPF, 7 PS, 5 (6) WM, 5 (6) atl, and only 2 IF. I plan to put one more point to shield. At this point stab with GG became very effective, lots of people die from one stab, and yesterday I even managed to get BD_SUPERBEAST in black armor (I think this guy has a LOT HP!) twice with slash + speed stab.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Vibe on April 05, 2011, 12:06:04 pm
The only thing I find hard to master at this point is chamber, but I ' ll try to improve.

Imho, don't bother with chambering, it's not worth the effort.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: v/onMega on April 05, 2011, 12:43:52 pm
xD

I allrdy managed to get good, loose motivation and get bad again while ppl. Still ask how to get better...xD

Guess the mod is still alive....

Bjords input? Obv. speedhacking.

Nah seriously...
Good good blocking, perfect awareness of weaponrange, variaty in combatstyle.

Oh...btw, its not just the weapon that kills...its mostly the player and personal skill.

Try speccing good players and ull see do 's and dont's.

Hopefully Bjord will stay as cooky as he is...+ i need his excusses about lag etc. After he dies....after finishing 10 guys xD.
Always makes me laugh..
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Teeth on April 05, 2011, 02:56:42 pm
Hmm, so is that jealousy or envy? Or just bitterness that you can never survive more than a second? Maybe a bit rage thrown in there somewhere as flavor?
Nah those are just my factual observations. All I said was true.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: La Makina on April 05, 2011, 03:30:32 pm
Go to the tutorial, do sparring fights with the veteran weaponmaster and just block, block, block, for hours. Coma una Makina.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Berserkadin on April 05, 2011, 05:15:15 pm
Real men use Flamberge, everything else (especielly lolstab) are for baby boys.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 05, 2011, 07:18:19 pm
To tell you the truth, I don't think flamberge should be counted as 2handed weapon, it is more a polearm, imo. I used it for a while, especially on siege servers, and I was for a few days in top three-four players, but I very quickly grew tired of it. 2handed swords are all about your skills, flamberge is all about mistakes of others.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on April 07, 2011, 04:52:52 pm
To tell you the truth, I don't think flamberge should be counted as 2handed weapon, it is more a polearm, imo. I used it for a while, especially on siege servers, and I was for a few days in top three-four players, but I very quickly grew tired of it. 2handed swords are all about your skills, flamberge is all about mistakes of others.


You man, teached me a great lesson today !


"Every weapon is about mistakes of others"  :wink:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 07, 2011, 08:49:14 pm
So, you say that people in M&B do not kill because they are skillful, but because others make mistakes all the time?
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Prpavi on April 07, 2011, 09:04:27 pm
2h guide: loom German 3 times. stab.

Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Gnjus on April 07, 2011, 09:05:50 pm
So, you say that people in M&B do not kill because they are skillful, but because others make mistakes all the time?

Exactly.
Whether its a fail block, unawareness, wrong turn, wrong swing, wrong footwork, not giving a damn about your opponents location and blindly charging into your death, not being able to see your opponents swing cause 70% of god damn maps are played in night time where you cant see your willy while youre peeing, fasader "balancing" weapons, etc, etc.......everything in this mod is based on mistakes of other people. All you need to do is find yourself at the right place in the right time and grab your free kill. Nice and easy.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 07, 2011, 09:06:06 pm
So, you say that people in M&B do not kill because they are skillful, but because others make mistakes all the time?

To be fair,the people who win the most are the ones who take advantage of other's mistakes the quickest, and the ones who lose are the ones who make the most mistakes. I love that about this game, that when I am in battle every little bit counts on what you do.

Things like armor just allow you an additional mistake or two.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Shpritza on April 07, 2011, 09:06:18 pm
2h guide: loom German 3 times. stab.

 :P
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on April 07, 2011, 09:15:44 pm
So, you say that people in M&B do not kill because they are skillful, but because others make mistakes all the time?

Ask around. Many top players will be honest and answer the k/d bang for the buck is to be where it's good to be, when it's good to be. True duels are rare on the battlefield, and they won't pump your k/d alone. Skill is mostly not doing errors in duels, the game is designed in a way that about anything can be done if we suppose the player is perfect and allways does exactly the best thing, given the current state of skill of the average cRPG player. The situations where this is not true are either involving ranged, crushthrough or great imbalances of stats (peasant vs lvl 30).

Reapy's video of various team deathmatch rounds when the game was not released long ago pretty much sums up this. People are dying because they make obvious errors. Now things have evolved and I think many current cRPG player would have gone rampage is they had back then the skill they have now. But the principle is still true.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: MrShine on April 07, 2011, 10:40:51 pm
Exactly.
Whether its a fail block, unawareness, wrong turn, wrong swing, wrong footwork, not giving a damn about your opponents location and blindly charging into your death, not being able to see your opponents swing cause 70% of god damn maps are played in night time where you cant see your willy while youre peeing, fasader "balancing" weapons, etc, etc.......everything in this mod is based on mistakes of other people. All you need to do is find yourself at the right place in the right time and grab your free kill. Nice and easy.

Well, to be fair it takes skill to recognize errors that other people make and capitalize on them.  Some errors are obvious, but others are minute things that only someone with skill and experience can very quickly recognize as an error and perform the correct action to score a hit.  I'm a long way down the skill totem poll but early on I simply didn't recognize chambered swings and how to properly time swings (ie not realizing it was my hesitation and not weapon speed that was allowing them to swing twice before I get one to land).  Now that I've had some more time playing those things become easier to spot.

So I think it absolutely takes skill to hit other players, simply because you need to recognize when the inevitable mistake is made and capitalize, while minimizing your own mistakes.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Original_Sin on April 08, 2011, 12:20:35 am
reapy's videos helped me a lot once.
too bad I took my sweet time after the patch came out and didn't play for a 3-4 months.
people sometimes call me a spammer. good luck with the second reapy's video. except for "criers will cry" thing of course  :wink:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Madcat on April 08, 2011, 02:50:19 am
Imho, don't bother with chambering, it's not worth the effort.

I think chambering is a useful thing to know, especially on battle servers where ending fights quickly is important. The longer a fight goes on the higher the chances of you dying get. But it's very situational.

So it's not necessary to know but it does give you an extra edge over people who you otherwise might lose to. Especially against those who like the 2h thrust move






Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: IG_Saint on April 08, 2011, 03:08:01 am
I think chambering is a useful thing to know, especially on battle servers where ending fights quickly is important. The longer a fight goes on the higher the chances of you dying get. But it's very situational.

So it's not necessary to know but it does give you an extra edge over people who you otherwise might lose to. Especially against those who like the 2h thrust move

Nothing gives me greater pleasure than having someone chamber my thrust only for me to overhead chamber their chamber and slicing their face of. I agree with you though, chambering is useful. I find it very effective against pikes and 1h spears. Still it's mostly a duel technique, I wouldn't bother to learn to chamber decently if you don't enjoy dueling.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Madcat on April 08, 2011, 03:25:53 am
Nothing gives me greater pleasure than having someone chamber my thrust only for me to overhead chamber their chamber and slicing their face of. I agree with you though, chambering is useful. I find it very effective against pikes and 1h spears. Still it's mostly a duel technique, I wouldn't bother to learn to chamber decently if you don't enjoy dueling.

That's the thing. In duels a lot of people expect to be chambered and often manage to block it. But in battle servers it's a death sentence if you pull it off. They are never ready for it :)

Yeah it's easier to do in controlled environments so that's why I think it's situational. I rarely do it. And when I do it I am either desperate or reckless enough to risk it, or have enough armor to afford being hit in case I miss
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Shpritza on April 08, 2011, 03:39:27 am
reapy's videos helped me a lot once.

Hope it helps u with the essay  :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 08, 2011, 01:55:12 pm
Well, to be fair it takes skill to recognize errors that other people make and capitalize on them.  Some errors are obvious, but others are minute things that only someone with skill and experience can very quickly recognize as an error and perform the correct action to score a hit. 
This.

And also, it takes skills to make other people make mistakes. At least other people who are skillful to some extent, to overwhelm them with a storm of blows and slashes, to make them nervous and frustrated and to make them finally make a mistake.
Of course, being a noob, I have never done this, but I saw it being done on several occasions.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Camaris on April 08, 2011, 04:04:45 pm
Imho, don't bother with chambering, it's not worth the effort.

Its totally worth it to counter stabbers. Its my standard answer to people who start with stab.
Im not good in chambering reft right and overheads so those are not worth it for me atm.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: RandomDude on April 08, 2011, 04:07:45 pm
Real men use Flamberge, everything else (especielly lolstab) are for baby boys.

i endorse this opinion

To tell you the truth, I don't think flamberge should be counted as 2handed weapon, it is more a polearm, imo. I used it for a while, especially on siege servers, and I was for a few days in top three-four players, but I very quickly grew tired of it. 2handed swords are all about your skills, flamberge is all about mistakes of others.

its definately got a style of its own in the 2h class

u can't use some 2h skills whilst using a flamberge and some flamberge skills dont transfer over well either

when i say "skills" i mean tips/tricks and stuff you just learn by using it etc


If u can pull off chambers in a battlefield then it is very useful but yoiu have to be on the ball all the time with it
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 08, 2011, 07:03:05 pm
Yeah, I noticed, for example, that people are almost always unprepared for stab with flamberge.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on April 09, 2011, 12:15:49 am
Chamberblocks can be really handy if you manage to learn them and place them when you want. The difficult thing is to know when to chamber. Holded attacks and holded feints are becoming more and more common (my personal impressions) with some good results, and those techniques tend to make chamberblocking even more difficult than it is.

One thing to notice is that chamberblocking with slow weapons will usually be useless since the opponent can block anyway. But khorin showed this can be bypassed by having a fast weapon (and gosh, he has one  :o)
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 11, 2011, 09:33:41 pm
My opinion: Practice chamber vs pikers, once you get the feel and timing of the enemy stab try it on 4directional weapons. I just recently started to practice chambers extesively and it IS worth the effort. The fact that you have some experience in chambering and the guy you are fighting with doesent makes a big difference.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: CarlSagan on April 12, 2011, 12:31:16 am
I also find the chamber very effective against fast shielders. If you are doing a STR build and have 12 or less agi, chances are that 1h guys have more agi than you and can run right up on you turtling and then start spamming side sword/pick etc. These guys can be difficult to attack because they can swing much faster than you with their 100+ speed rated weapons. Since their weapons are so fast it might seem counter intuitive to try to chamber them but it will be very difficult to get an attack off if they can let their shield down and strike you faster than you can get a single swing off. If you watch for the direction of their backswing and instantly swing in the same direction, your slower swing should meet theirs in the middle leaving them with their guard down. If you are fighting someone without a shield that swings around the same speed you do, you generally have to wait for their swing to start or you will be too early to strike their weapon with yours.

The only way for chambering to be really useful is to practice it enough that it is a natural and intuitive reaction in combat. The way to achieve this is to think of swinging your weapon into theirs. The hit detection of the weapons are pretty good and if you are accustomed to the swing speed of your weapon well enough that blocking/attacking/fainting/chambering are all fluid reactions to the enemies around you, you have mastered 2h. A good player can often still block you after you chamber them, but this shouldnt deter you from utilizing this technique. It takes slightly more practice than normal blocking, but think of it mostly as a block and less as an attack. The benefit of it is that you are already chambered for your attack and will ALWAYS be able to outswing the other player at that point. Their only option is to block or to chamber you in return. You, in turn, always need to be ready to cancel your chamber and block a different direction if they faint you or chamber your attack.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on April 12, 2011, 01:21:03 am
I also find the chamber very effective against fast shielders. If you are doing a STR build and have 12 or less agi, chances are that 1h guys have more agi than you and can run right up on you turtling and then start spamming side sword/pick etc. These guys can be difficult to attack because they can swing much faster than you with their 100+ speed rated weapons. Since their weapons are so fast it might seem counter intuitive to try to chamber them but it will be very difficult to get an attack off if they can let their shield down and strike you faster than you can get a single swing off. If you watch for the direction of their backswing and instantly swing in the same direction, your slower swing should meet theirs in the middle leaving them with their guard down. If you are fighting someone without a shield that swings around the same speed you do, you generally have to wait for their swing to start or you will be too early to strike their weapon with yours.

The only way for chambering to be really useful is to practice it enough that it is a natural and intuitive reaction in combat. The way to achieve this is to think of swinging your weapon into theirs. The hit detection of the weapons are pretty good and if you are accustomed to the swing speed of your weapon well enough that blocking/attacking/fainting/chambering are all fluid reactions to the enemies around you, you have mastered 2h. A good player can often still block you after you chamber them, but this shouldnt deter you from utilizing this technique. It takes slightly more practice than normal blocking, but think of it mostly as a block and less as an attack. The benefit of it is that you are already chambered for your attack and will ALWAYS be able to outswing the other player at that point. Their only option is to block or to chamber you in return. You, in turn, always need to be ready to cancel your chamber and block a different direction if they faint you or chamber your attack.

Weird, I think you should read again. If you are chambering and the enemy feints, it's usually win because you have started to swing earlier.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Wallace on April 12, 2011, 01:40:36 am
Weird, I think you should read again. If you are chambering and the enemy feints, it's usually win because you have started to swing earlier.

This... Rarely does someone feint while I'm hitting a correct chamber timing and manage to return a second attack in time
The people that can do this are usually high AGI one handers that know my play style too well
... and midnighter/cyranule but that's cause they has better hax than me
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: EponiCo on April 12, 2011, 01:55:53 am
Even if your attack starts earlier than his he can still hit you first. Depends on attack type and speed difference. And he's talking about very slow vs very fast, so yeah, rather cancel the chamber when he feints.
Though, the surprise bonus is pretty high too. Had this a couple of times on my 15 str shielder, hit the guy 5 times and then he chambers ... ofc you are oneshotted ... first you start to sleep and then suddenly bam.  :lol:
But seriously, against super agi shielders you just need to have good armor and keep swinging ... you have 50% chance to kill him by glance before your hp runs out.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: CarlSagan on April 12, 2011, 02:13:07 am
Right, I guess I was meaning that if it looks like someone is going to swing on you and you attemp to chamber them, they could just cancel their swing and block yours. Either way, I was trying to imply that more than anything, you need to be prepared to block their attacks with either a regular block or a chamber depending on the situation. Obviously if they try to faint you and you already have you attack chambered, swing away. Unless of course you're fighting wallace or cyranule... in which case just run away lol. Most of those guys in BRD are good players to watch because they fight correctly and more importantly, are all team players with good battle awareness.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Phyrex on April 12, 2011, 01:22:50 pm
How to be a successful master of the 2-hand weaponry?

You need to define successful first. Successful at destroying half the enemy team or help win a round by being a teamplayer? Or seek out the best players on the enemy team and kill them?

I'm not much of a teamplayer. A soloist - duelist, hence; you'll rarely see me in clusterfuck situations. I usually run by myself and engage lone players like myself or small groups of players.

This would be a typical round for me...

1. Round start
2. Long flanking manoeuvre(Ninja style) along the edges or through shortcuts depending on the map. The first destination is their archer cluster.
3. Destroy anyone who comes in your way. Watch out for ninjas, they're weak but have fast attacks. Engage smaller groups of players aswell, if you think you can beat them.(Never engage anyone you don't think you can kill)
4. You should be behind their archer cluster by now and more importantly you should be unseen. Engage and kill all of them(Use holded overhead attacks for one-shot kills and be sneaky :P)
5. Backstab their main zerg-horde but try not draw the whole group towards you. Keep yourself clear and on the edge of the enemy group. Always have an escape plan should the angry mob turn towards you.

As for actual fighting, I'll keep my most devious forms of attacks for myself but I'll give a few tips.

Practise on duel servers. It's almost a must do thing. And preferably on Native duel servers(Ndition or Swadian), the average Native duellist is far better then your average cRPG player. I currently have 1600+ hours played on Steam and atleast 1000 of those hours have been on Ndition Duel Server with a Great Sword in my hands.

Chambering is an extremely risky business in Battle mode and even more so on cRPG since there are so many different weapons and char builds. When I chamber it's not on purpose, my brain and fingers do it for me, it's like an instinct it happens automatically.

As for engaging enemy groups or the zerg-horde...

I tend to picture my enemies like mobs on a crappy Korean MMO. I kite them around and kill them one by one.

Especially now when most of them have gone STR-whoring, they're slow like snails and are butchered like cattle.

Which brings me to character builds...

I favour Agi slightly above Str. I currently have my 18 Str and 21 Agi at lvl 31 build. 18 Str and 24 Agi at lvl 34.

That way I can give a reasonable punch in my strikes and I can outrun people despite my medium/heavy gear. And I have somewhat of fast strikes.

I'm all about running around like crazy, strike where I can kill, flee when I'm outnumbered and kill more elsewhere.

I guess you could tag along some time and see what I do. :P

I've missed some stuff and I'll update whenever I remember again. :)
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Torp on April 12, 2011, 02:27:54 pm
The great Phyrex decided to help the average CRPG community... wow :D
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Opium.dk on April 12, 2011, 06:33:53 pm
The great Phyrex decided to help the average CRPG community... wow :D

He's not that great, i killed him once.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 13, 2011, 08:38:15 am
He's not that great, i killed him once.

In that case Harmless is not that great either, as I killed her once in a duel and I was using a pike of all things with just 60 wpf... once.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 13, 2011, 09:30:05 am
He's not that great, i killed him once.
And how many times did he kill you? :lol:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on April 13, 2011, 01:31:02 pm
I killed Phyrex with my level 10 2h alt once  :?

And I back-bump-slashed him countless times with my cav main.
BTW I think he killed me countless times too.

I'm quite surprised by your str/agi ratio, I would have though you had something like 18 agi/ 21 str. That sounds interesting for my next 2h alt gen.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Bjord on April 14, 2011, 01:53:59 pm
Since I'm going away for quite some time, and since Corwinus requested it from me, I thought I would go ahead and comply.

Think of it as a last gift from me, or a payback for my shitty behaviour. In either case, here goes:

After reading through most of this thread, I think what people struggle with most is with putting their thumb on the definition of definitions. I'm probably one of the more seasoned duelists of the cRPG community, having played since release (some people here even range back to the betas of Warband multiplayer). And I think I've played for longer than Phyrex too. Anyhow:   

(click to show/hide)

I probably forgot a few things, in which case I will add them upon remembering.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Vibe on April 14, 2011, 02:59:35 pm
Since I'm going away for quite some time, and since Corwinus requested it from me, I thought I would go ahead and comply.

Think of it as a last gift from me, or a payback for my shitty behaviour. In either case, here goes:

After reading through most of this thread, I think what people struggle with most is with putting their thumb on the definition of definitions. I'm probably one of the more seasoned duelists of the cRPG community, having played since release (some people here even range back to the betas of Warband multiplayer). And I think I've played for longer than Phyrex too. Anyhow:   

(click to show/hide)

I probably forgot a few things, in which case I will add them upon remembering.

I can't believe that I'm actually giving +awesomebar to a merc!

+1
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Razzen on April 14, 2011, 03:33:21 pm
I will try and help with this, I am a 2hander and a quite good one. Now its not all about lolstabs which some people make you believe, ofc there are spinstabs and all that, but as a 2hander its also very required to be good at movement to avoid being spammed by another 2her or a polearm, ofc you can spam yourself too by doing a simple move, this move is a good thing to start with if your close to each other, you do it by moving to the right and the same time you hit from the left, right after you move to the left and hit from the right, you will need to be a bit fast, since somebody can outspam you or hit before you do, for an example: a polearm guy with a glaive, if you move to the left and his hit is coming from the left, then you cant spam because his hit will hit you.

Alright I have shared a bit of my moves, I hope you could understand it and that it will help.

Also nice made Bjord.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Phyrex on April 14, 2011, 03:34:41 pm
Bjord speaks the truth, every single line is true.

Though I don't think I've ever reflected upon it in such depth, all of these things will come naturally/be realised with practise. :)

And never be afraid of experimenting with different attack patterns and weird feints or try and copy other peoples attacks and then use what works for you. For instance, just a couple of weeks ago I thought all kinds of attacks were already 'invented'(such as hilt-slashing, spinthrust etc.) but a new guy comes up to me and show me something new, a punch right in my face. I bet there are more ways of attacks out there to be discovered! :)

There are no shortcuts, only practise.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 14, 2011, 03:35:08 pm
Bjord, I can't thank you enough for taking time to write this down. This was great input, especially regarding battlefiled tactics for 2hander player.

Now, I would kindly ask moderators to sticky this topic, because I am now sure that it deserves such status.

PS
Bjord, I hope that you will remain active at least on forum? If not, I wish you again best of luck and predict a bright and shiny future for you!
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on April 14, 2011, 03:58:05 pm
I'd like to add something about str/agi balance.

If you are planning to stack str, be aware of the dangers. You will be powerfull and very likely to win duels and 2 v 1 situation, given decent fighting skills. But there is something you should be aware of. Athletics is probably the better skill of all, allowing you to choose your fights. If you are used to high athletics, you could be surprised how str builds with heavy armor can be horrible to play, because you can't help people struggling with big enemy groups. Low movement speed forces you to fight to death. You can't run from combats, you can't attack then retreat. In short, situational evaluation becomes extremely important in order to survive. You allways have to plan ahead, observe combats and tell whether :

- Your allies need you or not, because you will loose much time if you help them
- Your presence will make your side win this particular combat.
- The situation is desperate.

You can't flee, you have to be sure you will win all your combats, apart from the most important ones.

So even if str builds are better on paper, they suffer from the lack of movement speed. You can make this up by having light armor, but it reduces the use of having a good amount of HP.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Xant on April 14, 2011, 04:04:14 pm
Bjord, however, is still gay.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Prpavi on April 14, 2011, 04:17:10 pm
Cheers Bjord and Phyrex for writing these extensive texts your work is very much appreciated and a must read for every 2her

Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: RandomDude on April 14, 2011, 04:22:10 pm
It would be nice to get all this in the first post.

I made a new topic for that reason but i dont mind deleting it if this thread is stickied/changed.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Shpritza on April 14, 2011, 04:26:21 pm
Cheers Bjord and Phyrex for writing these extensive texts your work is very much appreciated and a must read for every 2her

only i need a vacation to read them   :D :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 14, 2011, 05:21:47 pm
I edited the first post in the topic, take a look.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Torp on April 14, 2011, 07:56:37 pm
I am very glad that some of the best CRPG players decided to share their knowledge... they rarely do it.

There is still one thing that haven't been written much about in this thread; how to kill good blockers.

When you epic guys (Phyrex, Bjord and others) enocunter a person who blocks every attack a regular player throws in their face, how do you get a hit in?
What are your favourite feinting for those people? which attack types do you use? how do you move while fighting?

I would really love to know how you guys kill good blockers, as that is really hard for me.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Xant on April 14, 2011, 07:59:03 pm
you spam them when they're busy being impressed with their own feinting

also you'll have to develop some attack sequences that are harder to follow

Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on April 14, 2011, 09:01:14 pm
I haven't responded to this thread because I honestly don't believe I belong in the OP.
Xant, Bjord and Phyrex, etc. are pro's, I'm a trained noob.

I don't really know how I've gotten on the list, but I guess I can tell you that half the time I've played cRPG I've spent on the duel server training.
Also, some backstory to me, I started playing cRPG a week before the patch arrived with the black lamellar vest, but I saw Thomek running around being pretty awesome. And I had never learned to block myself, so I decided to shelf the character I've managed to make(a level 15 shielder) and rolled a 2hander ninja. After that I leveled up to around 20 with it getting horribly slaughtered and then got tired of it and made a mental list at what I suck at. Blocking, footowork, timing, etc. was all on the list. I levelled from 20 to 27 practically in the duel server, just trying to learn how to fight.(It was in the good old days when you gained experience in the duel server.)

Next up on the list is learning how to chamber in battle when I'm sure it won't miss.
Just know your flaws, and try not to repeat and be persistant. This is what worked for me, can't guarantee it'll work for anyone else.

I'm sorry I can't be more of help, because I've never before put in to words what it is I do, but what the other guys said seems right.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 14, 2011, 09:13:13 pm
You got on the list because I remembered some rounds when I saw Khorin rushing into the crowd from some weird angle and taking down 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 opponents in 30sec, and then saying (very cool, I must admit) to the rest of the team - I did my thing, just clean up the rest. Also, I remember seeing you in Duel server dueling with Bjord and some other high profile 2handers, and I honestly didn't think you were worse. In any case, you have very different and authentic style (based on your preferred weapon - katana), but I think you are being too modest.
I never saw Thomek in action, and that I regret.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on April 14, 2011, 09:19:42 pm
I did my thing, just clean up the rest.
Wow, can't remember that but I sound like a douche. I apologize for that.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Corwin on April 14, 2011, 09:38:13 pm
Nah, it was pretty cool, don't worry about it.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: RandomDude on April 15, 2011, 01:10:08 pm
I edited the first post in the topic, take a look.

thx man ^^
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: King Berend on April 15, 2011, 02:17:08 pm
if you want to be a master of the 2h. (like me MHUAHAHAHAHA)
you have to master each skill of combat.

-Kickslash
-Jumping
-Footwork
-Blocking
-Chamberblocking
-Feinting
-Holdstriking

if you master all those skills you just have to adjust them to your opponent.


there is one more important thing, you have to be unpredictable.
cause if your opponent knows what you're going to do, you're fucked.



if you want to be the master, don't fuck up your build with silly shield points or even worse..... throwing.....



and yes there is one more thing, not everyone can become a master of the 2h.
so if you're a try-hard 2h then you should go and search for another profession.




Ill write a longer guide later on.

greetz, Berend (Melas)








 
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: BlackMilk on April 15, 2011, 09:40:45 pm
if you want to be a master of the 2h. (like me MHUAHAHAHAHA)
who is this guy? :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Babelfish on April 15, 2011, 09:59:12 pm
who is this guy? :mrgreen:

No idea   8-)

Probably some peasant...

^Probably shouldn't troll in this thread, but i think everything has been said.
 I used to be a somewhat decent melee player, but skills has decayed due to me not playing that much (stalking forum/people > playing)

The only way to improve is to train and observe other players (unless you are a creative type that invents attack patterns etc:p)
 There are several techniques you can use to gain a upper hand against your opponent.

* Spam
* Feint (The first real techniques players tend to learn)
* Delayed attacks (Forcing your phase, and aggressive players like myself gets thrown off their game)
* Spins/floor mopping (Used by more experienced players to mask their attacks)
* Flurry (Similar to spam, but instead of spamming wildly, you use 2 attacks that works flawlessly together. Not giving the opponent a chance to strike back. Ex: Right swing -> Thrust)
* Chambers (easy to learn, hard to master. It is a very situational technique, but can turn the tide of the battle. Perhaps not commonly known: You can chamber a thrust with a overhead strike)
 * Delayed Chambers (When you chamber, the more experienced players will instantly block the chamber, but if you delay the strike after a chamber, you can sometimes surprise them)
 * Chamber delayed attacks (Probably the hardest technique to do on commando, i think Alex_c was close to perfecting this)




 
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on April 16, 2011, 01:48:11 am
* Chamber delayed attacks (Probably the hardest technique to do on commando, i think Alex_c was close to perfecting this)

You see a lancer coming. You are preparing yourself mentally. His thrust is ready. Any error will cause your death, however you are calm and confident. When you feel like it's nearly there, you jump and start swinging your sickle over your head and it succesfully hits the enemy lance. You end your swing in the head of this poor lancer. He dies due to the speed bonus. You feel like a hero.


You have to know the habits of your enemies by heart if you want to succeed in chambering delayed attacks. It's usually easier with lancers because there is very little difference in their timings.

On another note, developping the mental part as a dueler is important too. Defensive players with excellent determination will usually win against more gifted aggressive players because those don't like taking too much time in a duel and will increase ther attack scheme risks as the duel takes longer, because an aggressive player will usually try to land the decisive blow. "Perfect blockers" can be a pain to duel, because nothing seems to work. So it's important to develop some kind of mental resistance against long, painful and boring duels.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: DarkFox on April 16, 2011, 02:24:06 am
Quote
On another note, developping the mental part as a dueler is important too. Defensive players with excellent determination will usually win against more gifted aggressive players because those don't like taking too much time in a duel and will increase ther attack scheme risks as the duel takes longer, because an aggressive player will usually try to land the decisive blow. "Perfect blockers" can be a pain to duel, because nothing seems to work. So it's important to develop some kind of mental resistance against long, painful and boring duels.
Big disadantage of warband duels,usually happens because of too low battle speed.Two "Perfect blockers" fighting without risk will fight until one of the duelers  will be bored.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Rangerbob on April 16, 2011, 04:36:05 am
Since we are on the 2h guide it doesn't matter who is the perfect blocker if you bring a mallet to the fight either you die or they do in close quarters.  Though agi players will outrange you and pick you apart.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: King Berend on April 16, 2011, 08:36:45 am
who is this guy? :mrgreen:

hahaha :mrgreen: (meehhh melas mhuahahahha)
funny ninjas :)
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: RandomDude on April 16, 2011, 05:12:07 pm
(click to show/hide)

Ahh yes. Nothing worse for me when im fighting a perfect blocker and it feels like the fight will go on for minutes. "I hate it when they block!"
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Bjord on April 16, 2011, 08:53:22 pm
* Chamber delayed attacks (Probably the hardest technique to do on commando, i think Alex_c was close to perfecting this)

It's very difficult and it's even more so to perform it on reaction. There's a typical delay length of any deliberate delay attack and if you've fought a specific player for long enough you'll develop a feel to when he will release the attack. I've performed so many on Phyrex he had to stop that particular sequence ;P.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Paroxysm on April 16, 2011, 10:16:37 pm
After playing this game for a few months primarily as a 2h/polearm I find two main things
holding me back from improving beyond where I am:

- Wrong blocks. I find it very difficult to block correctly consistently when you have to
turn and use a lot of footwork. Good shielders that facehug and encircle well get me almost
every time, as the combination of having to turn, block the correct direction and most
importantly see the way the strike is coming is too much for me. I also end up leftblocking
when I try to upblock, a lot. This comes with more practice I'm sure but it's frustrating
right now.


- Although I believe I have pretty decent footwork, my offensive capabilities are limited
and need to be more diverse. I don't feint enough, much at all really and this is a problem
against someone who can block well. Also my most important offensive problem is also due to
mouse control (ugh) is that after a successful block I won't return the strike from the same
direction I blocked in, but rather the opposite direction, which slows down your attack
phase enough that someone spamming can get another strike in. Again more practice but
frustrating. I also need to use more overhead attacks because upblocking seems to be a
problem for most the playerbase.

And then there are a few minor things such as:

- Running at someone with a chambered attack when their weapon is much longer than your own,
or has a thrust chambered. Sometimes I do this because I'm just not paying attention well
enough.

- Trying to engage an enemy who is currently in a stack of friendlies from the front.
Running in to engage with a chambered attack from the front is almost always suicide against
anyone good. By the time you wait for a clear shot they've already cleaved your teammate and
the next swing will be for you, and unless you were clairevoyant and released your attack
before he even killed your teammate, he will most likely hit you first.

And now a noob tip from myself:

- Here is a common situation: a player that you know doesn't block much is running at you
with a chambered attack (but not a thrust, this is important) with a weapon either shorter
or not much longer than your own. Run at them yourself with a right attack chambered and as
you're about to step into melee range stafe/turn to your left (going to his right) as you
release the attack. The speed bonus on this hit is massive as you're both running at each
other full speed. But since you released the strike from your right as you're moving to the
left, your strike will hit him incredibly fast, sometimes it will be so fast the enemy won't
have even released his chamber by the time he's hit. You will also hit him with the money
part of your weapon arc, and this drops most non-tincans with a STR build.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Bjord on April 16, 2011, 10:19:38 pm
(click to show/hide)

So... You're basically a beginner giving beginners advice?

Contradiction much? ;P
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Paroxysm on April 16, 2011, 11:10:26 pm
I'm giving advice? Besides that section at the end where I outlined one specific situation and something that I found works well enough, I'm not giving any "advice", 3/4 of my post is just outlining what I think I'm deficient at. What exactly am I contradicting?
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Bjord on April 16, 2011, 11:15:50 pm
I'm giving advice? Besides that section at the end where I outlined one specific situation and something that I found works well enough, I'm not giving any "advice", 3/4 of my post is just outlining what I think I'm deficient at. What exactly am I contradicting?


And now a noob tip from myself:

- Here is a common situation: a player that you know doesn't block much is running at you
with a chambered attack (but not a thrust, this is important) with a weapon either shorter
or not much longer than your own. Run at them yourself with a right attack chambered and as
you're about to step into melee range stafe/turn to your left (going to his right) as you
release the attack. The speed bonus on this hit is massive as you're both running at each
other full speed. But since you released the strike from your right as you're moving to the
left, your strike will hit him incredibly fast, sometimes it will be so fast the enemy won't
have even released his chamber by the time he's hit. You will also hit him with the money
part of your weapon arc, and this drops most non-tincans with a STR build.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Paroxysm on April 16, 2011, 11:22:03 pm
I didn't know you had to be an elite pro to say anything about combat mechanics. If you have anything to say about what I said do so, otherwise I don't know what your point is. And yes that is beginners advice, this being in "beginner's help and guides" forum after all.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Bjord on April 16, 2011, 11:24:09 pm
Nah, I'm just being an ass. You'll get used to it.

Anyone can give advice as long as it's good. But more often than not, it's usually fairly experienced players that give advice.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: RandomDude on April 16, 2011, 11:29:50 pm

- Trying to engage an enemy who is currently in a stack of friendlies from the front.
Running in to engage with a chambered attack from the front is almost always suicide against
anyone good. By the time you wait for a clear shot they've already cleaved your teammate and
the next swing will be for you, and unless you were clairevoyant and released your attack
before he even killed your teammate, he will most likely hit you first.



I ... uhh... tried this a few times and it can work. Expecting my team mate to die and swinging before he was dead, i mean.

It can also not work and then you tk your team mate.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Xant on April 17, 2011, 04:18:52 am
* Chamber delayed attacks (Probably the hardest technique to do on commando, i think Alex_c was close to perfecting this)

It's not really that difficult. It's pretty much the same as normal chambering, you just need to be very slightly faster. But it's just useless. Why would you ever want to chamber a held attack? You wouldn't. You can just attack them instead. Only time I can think of where chambering held attacks is good is when you see someone run at you with their attack held and you wanna show how pr0 you are. Or as Bjord mentions, if you got someone's timing down you can attack them and count on your chamber to get them.. but then again you could just spam them a bit before that instead. Related to that actually, most people have predictable patterns and so after a few exchanges I can usually guess when they're gonna feint and then spam them to death. Followed by "OMG NOOB SPAM" of course.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Belhade on April 17, 2011, 06:07:56 am
My epic 2H move:

Get into a fight, then run away. Make sure they're chasing you, then start a swing, turn around and dive back into the enemy, chopping their head off. Works especially well when another enemy comes to chase as well, and you suddenly go for him. I use a Heavy Bastard, and it's like swinging a razor-edged wiffle bat. I've mowed down four or five people this way - unpredictability is key.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 17, 2011, 11:03:17 am
Um the runturnaroundslash thingy is actualy quite predictable, i always expect it. And imo most better players expect it also.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Teeth on April 17, 2011, 12:07:21 pm
Um the runturnaroundslash thingy is actualy quite predictable, i always expect it. And imo most better players expect it also.
I always expect it but still it sometimes gets me. Fast players with fast weapons that execute this move are pretty hard to block cause you have mere milliseconds to react. Even though its becoming a known thing, it still works.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Babelfish on April 17, 2011, 12:10:26 pm
It's not really that difficult. It's pretty much the same as normal chambering, you just need to be very slightly faster. But it's just useless. Why would you ever want to chamber a held attack? You wouldn't. You can just attack them instead. Only time I can think of where chambering held attacks is good is when you see someone run at you with their attack held and you wanna show how pr0 you are. Or as Bjord mentions, if you got someone's timing down you can attack them and count on your chamber to get them.. but then again you could just spam them a bit before that instead. Related to that actually, most people have predictable patterns and so after a few exchanges I can usually guess when they're gonna feint and then spam them to death. Followed by "OMG NOOB SPAM" of course.

Well nothing is difficult with enough practice. It is still the most difficult technique because the timing is variable.

There are also different type of delay attackers:
Those that hold their attack for 0.1 - 0.5 seconds (These are the hardest in the game to chamber imo)
Those that hold their attack for 0.5++ seconds (Easier to chamber)

Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Joseph on May 26, 2011, 06:38:24 am
2 handers is the way to life.  :P
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Bulzur on May 28, 2011, 03:24:14 pm
These 2 videos should get you started, I strongly recommend watching them:

Mount & Blade Warband melee Tutorial by reapy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jHcZjWw9U)
Mount & Blade Warband TDM runs by reapy  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZZnl09qBKM)

In close to one year of cRPG, i never ever saw thoses videos !  :shock:
Thanks a lot, they're definitely awesome.
(so that's the stun people are complaining about from polearms)

I must admit i never used a kick, but i'll start practicing it. Shielders, fear me !
Awesome fist chamber at the end of the melee Tutorial.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Kafein on May 29, 2011, 10:16:45 pm
My epic 2H move:

Get into a fight, then run away. Make sure they're chasing you, then start a swing, turn around and dive back into the enemy, chopping their head off. Works especially well when another enemy comes to chase as well, and you suddenly go for him. I use a Heavy Bastard, and it's like swinging a razor-edged wiffle bat. I've mowed down four or five people this way - unpredictability is key.

I usually don't follow people straight behind them for that reason. Also, I doubt it works against shielders.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Bjord on May 31, 2011, 05:14:45 pm
There's no trick that beats them all, and the more you use a distinctive move the easier it will be for people to spot them.

In other words, general skill in cRPG is increasing. You have to play rock-scissor-paper like a baller now!
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: AzureSkys on May 31, 2011, 05:48:01 pm
Are there tips for blocking direction controls, like high or low mouse speed and what not? Often I'll intend to move the mouse Left for a block but it will go Down instead. I don't know if it's sloppy mouse movement or my ping. I know my 100 + ping will do funny things to my blocking attempts as if there's a delay and my initial move Left goes for a moment but my next mouse movement will register instead making the block go a different direction.

Same happens with ladders sometimes. I place them, turn to go behind it and suddenly the ladder is deployed 90* from where I first aimed due to lagging (same idea for blocking).

Is it better to hold a block (mouse button down) and switch from there, or block, release the button and wait for the next attack. I guess it would vary depending on the circumstance, though, and trying to bait an attack swing.
Title: Re: 2handers guide
Post by: Bjord on May 31, 2011, 05:49:56 pm
Are there tips for blocking direction controls, like high or low mouse speed and what not? Often I'll intend to move the mouse Left for a block but it will go Down instead. I don't know if it's sloppy mouse movement or my ping. I know my 100 + ping will do funny things to my blocking attempts as if there's a delay and my initial move Left goes for a moment but my next mouse movement will register instead making the block go a different direction.

Same happens with ladders sometimes. I place them, turn to go behind it and suddenly the ladder is deployed 90* from where I first aimed due to lagging (same idea for blocking).

Is it better to hold a block (mouse button down) and switch from there, or block, release the button and wait for the next attack. I guess it would vary depending on the circumstance, though, and trying to bait an attack swing.

Sounds like it's mostly the lag that's your issue. Can't do anything beside learning how to play with it, I suppose. As for the sensitivity, I keep a rather high one. You'll learn the finesse of it as you go. You want to be as flexible as possible.