You're not Boromir.
Dedicated my old friends has 5-1 etc. K:D ratio.
(click to show/hide)
[GUIDE] How to Defend against Archers and not Become a StatisticD) Speed bonus, if you're moving to the archer or reverse.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,26128.0.html
If you really got killed in 2 body shots they were either:
A) very close to you
B) lucky (armor absorbtion is random to an extent)
C) Have very high power draw (and lower athletics)
Find me 10 archers with 3-1 KD or greater who are dedicated archers (IE get the majority of their kills in ranged & aren't hybrids).
Then I'll find you 25 melee that get 3-1 or greater.
Last patch increased the penalty for wearing gauntlets a bit, but it also decreased the penalty for wearing a helmet and raised the no-malus threshold from 5 to 10 weight. Further tweaks might happen soon.
As for OP: no.
Last patch increased the penalty for wearing gauntlets a bit, but it also decreased the penalty for wearing a helmet and raised the no-malus threshold from 5 to 10 weight. Further tweaks might happen soon.
does this go for throwing too?
Find me 10 archers with 3-1 KD or greater who are dedicated archers (IE get the majority of their kills in ranged & aren't hybrids).
Then I'll find you 25 melee that get 3-1 or greater.
Last patch increased the penalty for wearing gauntlets a bit, but it also decreased the penalty for wearing a helmet and raised the no-malus threshold from 5 to 10 weight. Further tweaks might happen soon.
As for OP: no.
The title of this thread, it reminds me of good times.[/spoiler](click to show/hide)
Find me 10 archers with 3-1 KD or greater who are dedicated archers (IE get the majority of their kills in ranged & aren't hybrids).
Then I'll find you 25 melee that get 3-1 or greater.
How much Strength and Ironflesh do you have to go with your 54 body armor? I'm guessing you got hit in the head or feet hitbox and just didn't realize it.
Good point. If you're running at the person, you're getting hit a lot harder than if you are stationary or running away. Rabbit were you riding a horse?
Last patch increased the penalty for wearing gauntlets a bit, but it also decreased the penalty for wearing a helmet and raised the no-malus threshold from 5 to 10 weight. Further tweaks might happen soon.
As for OP: no.
Only thing i hate about archers is how then can do some sort of dance circling around you and shoot through your shield, dunno if its an bug or just a lucky shot but pro archers seem to be masters of it..
Only thing i hate about archers is how then can do some sort of dance circling around you and shoot through your shield, dunno if its an bug or just a lucky shot but pro archers seem to be masters of it..
I think you are NA player. So visit to EU. I'm the worst archer ever. But I can get 2-1 K:D ratio with my skip the fun char.
That's not a list of 10 archers who get 3:1 KD using their bow as the main source of kills.
You wanna SS or just names ?
You wanna SS or just names ?
And archery is suck and need nerf.
Cause archery is support class not assault. I saw too much archer play like 'Lonely Boy' , They charge like shielders...
Only thing i hate about archers is how then can do some sort of dance circling around you and shoot through your shield, dunno if its an bug or just a lucky shot but pro archers seem to be masters of it..
No , cause I'm biggest my old friend.
When I'm playing in EU 1 ;
If I died 10 times :
4 times gay cavs
3 times my old friends
3 times gangbang
It's suck , Do you know ?
When I'm playing in EU 1 ;
If I died 10 times :
4 times gay cavs
3 times my old friends
3 times gangbang
It's suck , Do you know ?
So cmp, you removed polestagger - good. When are you removing the equivalent from arrows / bolts?
Just look at the poll results, there's your answer. Now go find something else to cry about please...
You mean the mini stun that happens to everyone everywhere when damage is taken? That stagger? The one that shows we're fleshy and not the terminator robot?
You mean the mini stun that happens to everyone everywhere when damage is taken? That stagger? The one that shows we're fleshy and not the terminator robot?
Did you read? The equivalent to the polestagger. I dont know how often it happens, but more than enough.
I hardly read nerf archery threads tbh, unique non-retarded suggestions come up once in a blue moon.
Anyways polestun was removed b/c you could chain free hits on someone & people thought it was cheesy. You can't chain hits on someone as an archer while they are stunned, it's just something extra for ranged support. Same with horse bumps - those are long stuns but just b/c polearms got their extra stun removed doesn't mean everything else has to change.
In short deal with it.
Why should pikes lose it if arrows doesn't? If it's something extra for support, why wouldn't dedicated support weapons like pikes have it, they're not fast enough either to chain hit either. Get the arrow stagger out, getting shot in the back by friendly archers and taking several hits because of it is getting old. All this extra stagger shit should go :P
I actually don't think pikes should have lost it.. I personally didn't find polestun to be that big a deal. I think the part that people liked the least about it though was the fact that in 1v1 situations fast spammy poles could get lots of free hits in. That simply isn't possible for horse bump or for ranged. Yes they both can be used as team support, but they don't present the same lethal ability that a long polestun in 1v1 could generate.
Archery is like super weak atm, at least for me. Today survived 4 arrows and I have 19 body armor...
Trying to argue with mr shine is like talking to a brick wall
no
archers should have their wieght penality limit buf too 15 in order to look like real archers (blue brigandie over aketon FTW) and be able to resist melee a bit
Ye olde crpg, open plains and two big shieldwalls shooting projectiles. Doesn't suit ADHD people I guess.It was so epic.
Did anyone get a singe confirmed kill by jumpshooting so far ? When I do it with my longbow I always pray that the arrow doesnt hit myself in the head.
and boom xynox proven to be an utter lobbying whore, whiles being nuub ingame hihi
I'm archer scum? I just pointed out that you are a retarded lobbyist just like Xynox.
I'm archer scum? I just pointed out that you are a retarded lobbyist just like Xynox.
Lol, yeah. I've killed at least 10 people by jumping at a wall and shooting since it came back. I've headshoted both Plavor and Bruce by a jumpshot, which they can confirm. 8-)You got me as well you terrorist.
It's kinda retarded, but funny :wink:
I`ve been so many time 1-2 shoted in 59 body armor (!!!) 20/18 build, and my Large Warhorse (+3) (47 armor, 145 hp) 1-2 shoted often too. Bow now are even more powerfull than arbalests.In addition to that they are faster and have more ammo than xbows. Nerf archer damage and accuracy!
The difference between archery and other classes is that archers have to work really hard and with very specific builds to reach the same type of killrate status as the others, and we mostly dont.So you think that this is an argument that justify the excistence of archers, that 1 shot full armored horse, while even Arbalest can`t do it?
So you think that this is an argument that justify the excistence of archers, that 1 shot full armored horse, while even Arbalest can`t do it?
So you think that this is an argument that justify the excistence of archers, that 1 shot full armored horse, while even Arbalest can`t do it?
So you think that this is an argument that justify the excistence of archers, that 1 shot full armored horse, while even Arbalest can`t do it?
Where the hell are you getting this from?EU_1
So you think that this is an argument that justify the excistence of archers, that 1 shot full armored horse, while even Arbalest can`t do it?
Archery suck and for skilless noobs.Whining suck.
That polestagger from arrows and bolts still needs to go!and your axe is way too fast :D
You're not Boromir.
They aren't Legolas.
Archery suck and for skilless noobs.
unban please , i can give 5k for your trouble.
If you don't , I will do some fuckin cheats on strategus.
At the moment I have 66b(highest) and it only needs 3 shots and im dead with 9if so .... were is the point of the "one headshot one kill" when they just shoot me random. With 9if im not really the fastest so avoiding the arrrow every ..... time doesnt really work! And im not complaining about xbows! Want to easily kill a knight? ..... shoot with a xbow and not with a bow. So just take that damn pierce from the bodkin arrow and you have a Bow that "one headshot one kill" and xbow "two shots one kill load for each 1 min".
Serious thread by serious autoblocker guy.
Buff rabbits English plz.
Still waiting for that list of 10 archers w/ 3-1 KD :rolleyes:
Bagge10
Zerobot
Hetman
maybe blackbow but he isnt that good anymore
Still waiting for that list of 10 archers w/ 3-1 KD :rolleyes:
Bagge
Zerobot
Hetman
Blackbow
Bloody Matumba
Shikogushi Tiborur
Th0mas_Cadarn
Is there some way to access these people's front page? And are all of them level 30 or less?
Still waiting for that list of 10 archers w/ 3-1 KD :rolleyes:
Archery is OP, it's that simple. Full +3 heavy armor, 30 str, 10 ironflesh -> two shotted, fuck you.
BaggeJust naming archers you think are good doesn't mean their KDs are 3:1 :rolleyes:
Zerobot
Hetman
Blackbow
Bloody Matumba
Shikogushi Tiborur
Th0mas_Cadarn
ROBINHOOD
Kunio
Tonyukuk
I feel left out shine... makes me sad:oops:
I don't wanted 25 melee , I didn't give 10 ranged to you, I gived archers , I wanted 25 dedicated 2h EU players. Play in EU servers create new liste and check my list in 1 week. NA players can't talk about fagchery. Cause their my old friends are suck.
Cause their my old friends are suck.Funny that u say that, because I actually have a 3:1 kd as an archer.
Funny that u say that, because I actually have a 3:1 kd as an archer.
Killing horses don't give k/d.
Archery is OP, it's that simple. Full +3 heavy armor, 30 str, 10 ironflesh -> two shotted, fuck you.Must be 8-10 pd.
TurmoilTom
I would say melee kills a lot more horses then range does.
3:1 is a little high nowadays, but 2.5 maybe. It's just making a list of the 10 most known archers and hoping they have a high enough KD. It's a little unfair to do all of melee to just archers.
I wouldn't say they have a good KD now, but I believe for at least 1 gen they did pretty will with 2.5 or above.
NA:
Havoco
Aderyn
King_Itchy
Robin_Longstride
CYBD
Chestaclese
Include slightly old archers:
sWalker
SaifaQC
Kesh
Blackrose_Mrshine (sure you said somewhere you did quite well for a few gens)
KING_UGBERT
Xbows(main):
Silveredge
Marcus
Noodles
Weebo
Veto
HX:
ROHYPNOL
Bumblebee
some of the other in Rohypnol's clan (there's two others whose names I just can't recall)
I'm sure I'm missing a few names(fallen, SS,etc) since I don't pay attention to that many archers individually and more as a collective. Often times some good archers are just alts of some other known players, too. EU also has Bagge, Jambi, alts of top players like Chase, and many others whom the players on EU can more easily explain. They are known more for their archers from what I read, too. I think ranged benefit from staying together/positional advantage easier than melee nowadays, unless the team has many support melee players to go around. At the end of the round, I would rather have my team left with a group of archers than a group of just melee.
Blackrose_Mrshine (sure you said somewhere you did quite well for a few gens)
I currently have a KDR of 1.9, actually, but I attribute that to the fact that I haven't played on battle with any armor values above 30 and restricted myself to an Elder's Practice Longsword.
I feel left out shine... makes me sad
I do have an archer myself with +3 bodkins and a +3 Rus bow and i can say that archery is waaaaaaaay too accurate and what i think would be a good balancing act for them is an solid accuracy nerf compensated by more arrows per quiver. That way we wont feel like a sniper hero and we will actually have to stay behind our allies to shoot shit safely instead of running around alone in the open doing 180 degrees headshots while maintaining close to full speed.
The other problem in that game is just the sheer amount of ranged. since last month i feel like when everybody used to throw shit when Throwing was OP but that's my biased meleer opinion.
So basically, remove any semblance of skill (even if it is FPS skill) and increase dependency on luck?
What about removing the crosshair?
What about removing the crosshair?What about removing shield on shielders?
How about remove insane headshot bonus from all ranged (getting 1 hit through a greathelm+8IF might be slightly ridiculous IMO). Make it so heavier armors cause glances against cut arrows more often but give cut arrows more damage so they work better on lower armored foes.So is it already
This thread is still going!?
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Okay, lets nerf damage to the head by 50% and increase dmg to legs and body by 50%. Would you prefer that?
haha yesterday i shot a guy an arrow into the brain, he was dehorsed and injured. His head armor was this one:visitors can't see pics , please register or login
AND HE SURVIVED
ARCHERY needs Buf needs to be one shot everywere even in the feetsNo my friend, that means we need no headshot dmg nerf.
You are such a child. Sorry bout that.
Luckily neither any one really cares about your suggestion nor you are in the dev team. Luckily. :)Somebody says nerf archers. I say also my opinion and suggestion :shock:
1. Reduce amount of ammo overall (trowing,xbows,my old friends). Make throwing weaps lighter.
2. Reduce archers and xbows accuracy to force them go closer (not by much only to lose they snipping skill cos they do not have scope :mrgreen:). This will also make live of thrower easier. Remove forcefield and magnet from shield only big shield should be arrowproof.
3. Make waep. master linear not progressive to make hybridisation more viable even for not agi orientated build. Trowing weaps. and bows should not have their damage based on wpf but only on power draw and power throw they should take only accuracy and speed bonus as xbows.
4. Make xbows slower a lot (specially high end) but add strength dependant skill which will reduce reloading time. This will make xbows hybrid go for weaker xbows but also make arbamy old friends slower in kitting.
5. Make aiming time for heavy thr.weps. longer cos I am sick of kiting whalers and jarided ninjas throwing their weapons to my face from three steps away. Reduce armor weight sanction for throwers.
Amazin xD Coming back to the game after a couple of months and people are still crying about archers^^
increase weight of bow/ arrows will help archers top stop running like a coward
No, it really won't help in the slightest, you will just see a shift towards even more extreme ATH heavy builds.
Archers don't run because carrying a bow suddenly makes you want to play a running simulator, archers run because the community in it's infinite wisdom of punishing split wpf so much combined with the slot system combined with generally punishing hybrids in general combined with archery requiring a heavier focus in points due to previous nerf after nerf after nerf means archers have to run as they have garbage melee capabilities now and it is near-suicide to stay for the majority of any archery build oh god sentence run on make it stop...
Builds that have melee such as an 18/18 at level 30 ?
-catching up to the main group, while being able to fire
-dodging others projectile
-quickly flanking ennemy infantry
-evading an enraged horse
Athletics is important for archers, not only for strategically retreating, but for :
-catching up to the main group, while being able to fire
-dodging others projectile
-quickly flanking ennemy infantry
-evading an enraged horse
No you can't. There is a tiny difference in speed between plate and peasant clothes if you have 3 agi and 0 ath.
Amazin xD Coming back to the game after a couple of months and people are still crying about archers^^
Builds that have melee such as an 18/18 at level 30 ?
Archers going for that are definitely asking to get their ass kicked by either range or cav.
You rarely see dedicated 2h or polearmers anymore.EU is still crowded with 2h my old friends :cry: shielder lancers deserve to have their balls cut off btw.
EU is still crowded with 2h my old friends :cry: shielder lancers deserve to have their balls cut off btw.
The answer is this
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/nerf-them/
I think bows should have a 50/50 chance of simply not being equipped after spawn when chosen in the equipment screen. I think that would be totally fair and there would be no need to change any stats of any items or whatsoever.
Since arrows currently have a 50/50 chance of ghosting through enemies without dealing damage your suggestion is rendered obsolete.
You are not supposed to be shooting at individual targets. No regiment of archers ever did this in history. The way bows should be used is against mobs of enemies, maximising the chances of hitting.
How does this post make sense ? How does this "historic fact" justify arrows not working properly ? Also chances are high that one arrows passes through multiple targets. It just causes inf and especially cav winning fights they usually would have lost. Blackmilk for example, who minused my post may actually think hes good at dodging and doesnt know that its probably just ghost arrows which have saved his life several times lol.
How does this post make sense ? How does this "historic fact" justify arrows not working properly ? Also chances are high that one arrows passes through multiple targets. It just causes inf and especially cav winning fights they usually would have lost. Blackmilk for example, who minused my post may actually think hes good at dodging and doesnt know that its probably just ghost arrows which have saved his life several times lol.I've been a crossbower for 2 months now and I never experienced anything like ghost arrows or bolts actually then again I didn't even mean to minus your post haha
I know arrows shouldn't be ghosting around (my throwing spears also do that, for some reason I notice it happening at my advantage more often). But the simple fact that it actually makes a difference tells a story about how archers play. The legolas archery we have now is ridiculous, and ruins the gameplay when combined with kiting. Why aren't archers far away, firing volleys at the enemy ?
Also, archers shouldn't be strong against charging cavalry, yet they are. An aware archer is probably the worst thing to charge as a cav guy in cRPG. Guaranteed arrow between the eyes.
I would be pleased to see archer formations shooting volleys from far away and stuff, yet, every single mechanic regarding ranged gameplay we have right now is literally shouting at you "KITE THE SHIT OUTTA THEM". Although this is old news, this wont ever change unless the average melee lemming wont stop shouting "ololo nurf them archurs" and as long as we have godmode-shield-forcefields.
And for you black milk, either you play with new style missile animations or you are just plain lucky.
You have to be kidding me. Only bucklers cover more than what is shown.
Anyway, archers should be fighting from further away than what they are doing now. Part of the reason archers shoot at very close range is the possibility of surviving for very long while being very close to the enemy, through kiting. The effectiveness of kiting can easily be fixed by offering alternatives like a decent melee hybridization (less dependant on teammates, can be further away from them), and decreasing mobility.
WHAT ??? you cant be serious. With a generic shielder build you are completely covered from every singe arrow that comes from the direction you are looking at. No matter if shot at your toes or your head.
WHAT ??? you cant be serious. With a generic shielder build you are completely covered from every singe arrow that comes from the direction you are looking at. No matter if shot at your toes or your head.
This still going on? Devs, force Kafein and the like to play as archers for a couple of months.
I've seen very effective shielders. No offense, but check the approach if you are having issues with archers, because when one focuses on me, I HAVE to deal with them and when they get close, I have very little chance. Even if they don't get me, well I'm not going to get 30 points that round. More like 5 or 6. If you think that isn't helping your team, you are crazy :shock:
That may be, thing is I don't even bother (and many shielders will tell you the same) anymore. At least until I'm forced to chase archers, I will not do it cause it's a death trap. In battle mode of course, the context on siege can be different.
You know why? Because often 2 or 3 archers group together, yet it is a solo shielder that comes after them. 2 vs 1 my friend, yet these complaints come about like a shielder(or any other class) should be able to take on 2 ANYTHING and come out ahead. 2 shielders vs 2 archers? The only way the archers win is by running from the 1 shielder while shooting at the shielder chasing the other archer. Otherwise? Shielders walk down the archers or chase them off their hill and into cavalry pathing......result is dead archers, whether from the shielder or from a lance in the back.
Really, the complaints about not being able to solo two other players is tired. As you say, this is Battle mode, not Duels. (and if you really cant prevent a solo archer from raining down death as a shielder, switch classes)
Actually when any number of shielders go on attacking more than 2 archers, archers have the advantage. They can run away indefinetly from those chasing them, and they can shoot at the others at will. And that's fucked up.
I never wanted shielders to be effective in 1 vs x melee combat, but they actually do alright (more or less like 2h and polearms, it really depends on the playstyles). While being a pityful counter to archers, even though being designed as such.
Let's see how "fair" this is.
Frankly, what happens when one archers fights two 2h ? Two poles ? Two cav is a little harder since completely avoiding being bumped by the first one may be tricky, but it has been done.
Yet in your opinion it's totally fine the one class that ought to kill archers cannot do so ?
Being a counter doesn't mean wtfautowin.
So, guess counter isn't the right word to describe archer vs anything that doesn't have 8+ ath and 0 armor?
When you are in a situation of 2 vs 2, guess who wins? The more skilled. If the archers are more skilled, they win. If the shielders are more skilled, they win.
How could two shielders possibly beat two archers who are actually trying to win? Catching the archers unless they try something stupid is pretty impossible.
There isn't a problem with archers, though maybe there is one for shielders. You need to go beg for a BUFF for your class instead of complaining to NERF one that you can't handle.
There is a problem with archers, they out range anything but other ranged units and they're faster than 99% of all none ranged units, therefore they're invincible against 99% of none ranged units while still being able to effectively kill 100% of all players no matter what build the other player got.
You need to go beg for a BUFF for your class instead of complaining to NERF one that you can't handle.
Kafein, there's a difference in what can happen, and what does happen. Archers are weak. Move on.
archery is fine except :I love my dancing victims, but i mean i kite with 2 athl.
-the occasional super arrow that hits your leg and takes 50% of your hp even though you have a tanky build (ok i just got shot at 75% just now)
-the super kiting ability of archers worsen by the fact that they make you breakdance when they hit
I love my dancing victims, but i mean i kite with 2 athl.
...but as an archer I only died when all my team did too, and was one of the last to go down when we lost...
And then you had another dream, and then woke up? Get real, your pipe dreams are bullshit or you would main an archer instead of spending your time bitching on forums. Just GTFO
people don't do archery on their mains because its boring with zero risk involved, just like kafein explained. stand on a hill, play a shitty FPS game against enemies who can't shoot back, if anyone gets close run away at 100 miles an hour. its an extremely unfun playstyle unless you mix some melee in, which most don't because they're bad at melee and kiting is so powerful so why learn how to block?
The first thing that has to be done about archery and ranged in general is to completely remove the projectile stun. Polearms don't have it, now there's no reason it should stay.
Did I miss anything? Archers are the ultra class now that dominate everyone - even shielders with "antishielder bugusing"? I remember them as squishy bottom feeders that were more an annoyance than a threat to my shieldless melee chars. They didn't even waste any energy to target my shielders. Raped by cav and other ranged alike, their low armor making them a "one mistake and you are out" class. But they are probably OP now, with all the changes over the past months.
Did I miss anything? Archers are the ultra class now that dominate everyone - even shielders with "antishielder bugusing"? I remember them as squishy bottom feeders that were more an annoyance than a threat to my shieldless melee chars. They didn't even waste any energy to target my shielders. Raped by cav and other ranged alike, their low armor making them a "one mistake and you are out" class. But they are probably OP now, with all the changes over the past months.Your sarcasm is deafening, truly.
Well, 1hander,lancer,2hander,thrower,xbower... come in two flavors.
You have those with no looms who are just annoying and you have the ones with fully loomed equipment who do hilarious amounts of damage.
Herps derps
I like it when people who obviously don't understand the underlying mechanics make gross generalizations.
PD has a greater damage increase per point than PS. (almost double actually) Not to mention that you get the added bonus from two items being loomed.
Did I miss anything? Archers are the ultra class now that dominate everyone - even shielders with "antishielder bugusing"? I remember them as squishy bottom feeders that were more an annoyance than a threat to my shieldless melee chars. They didn't even waste any energy to target my shielders. Raped by cav and other ranged alike, their low armor making them a "one mistake and you are out" class. But they are probably OP now, with all the changes over the past months.
pretty sure one of the problems is due to "all of the changes in the past few months" most of the good melee players have completely left cRPG to play other games, leaving behind nothing but gen 20 rus bow nerds with full looms, along with similar low skill high gen cav players.
this creates a very imbalanced dynamic off the bat where overwhelming amounts of rus bow bodkin arrows and heavy lance couches can win against any other team composition every time auto balance stacks a team, which subtly leads to more melee players quitting the mod.
but it's okay, another half dozen veteran warband players abandoning the mod after another team of 7 rus bow users kite them to death isn't so bad. until the next half dozen. and the next. etc.
I don't think anybody has said archers dominate everyone. They just have the best survivability if we forget about mounted ranged for a moment.
Good point....in fact let us forget about heirloomed, armoured and high level anything, clearly a peasant with a stick is the most survivable.
Nerf peasants with sticks!
Crpg; where logic climbs off the horse. "Arent you coming with me?" "Nah mate, sorry I have to....be somewhere....besides im not welcome here".
Actually im being a little unfair, Kafekin.
(click to show/hide)
Archery is not OP at all. There are just too many of them, which can create the wrong impression. Find solutions to lower the number of archers, instead of nerfing them. We had enough nerfs in this game.
Archery is aviaible at gen 2, problem solved :D
This, but if they are not to be nerfed then what will reduce the amount?
Good question. I fear I can't answer it as shortly as you'd like, but I'll do my best:
The main reason for going ranged is most likely fear of having to fight in melee. It seems much more likely to kill fighters like Bjord, Teeth, Tor, Chase and all the others by ranged than actually defeating them in melee. (Side note: I don't consider backstabbing cav as melee, and due to the rising amount of cav in the game we can assume the motivation is the same: no need to fight those skill monsters).
The second reason would be missing flexibility. Ranged fighters can attack anybody, even against shielders they have a chance. But melee can't pick their targets, and some of them, like horse archers and ATH cruthing archers, are literally unkillable. That's not what you like to have in a game where you are supposed to... kill everybody?
So I would decide to go for making melee more attractive. One idea I had and am repeating over and over on the forum was replacing battle mode (= round based team deathmatch) with a conquest mode, where you have to conquer and hold the majority of three or five flags for a certain time. This objective is accomplished best by infantry, and simultaneously the need to kill archers or horse archers is reduced. And perhaps it will finally stop that retarded Rambo-Lemming-autowalker behaviour, most infantry players are sticking to. A bunch of organized infantry is much more difficult to kill, and the frags of archers and cavalry would lower, making those classes less attractive again.
That's my solution, and it doesn't even contain a nerf. Perhaps it will even lead to a slight buff of archery and especially cavalry again, because on the paper the classes are really UP.
Making melee more atractive can be a key, but how so? Even as i was reading, i thought about an armor buff.
Good question. I fear I can't answer it as shortly as you'd like, but I'll do my best:
The main reason for going ranged is most likely fear of having to fight in melee.
This, but if they are not to be nerfed then what will reduce the amount?
The last idea I had was quite drastic: buff infantry stats. Make a button on the character page for infantry training. Skills like riding, power throw and power draw are locked then, same with the WPF for bows, crossbows and throwing weapons. Skills like power strike, iron flesh, shield skill or athletics need only two points of the corresponding attribute (instead of three) to be raised one point. You can also make armour weight speed penalties being reduced by a certain percentage, same for armour upkeep. This would make infantry incredibly deadly in melee and much tougher to kill. (Which means the relation of infantry vs. infantry stays the same, but infantry vs. cavalry and infantry vs. archers shifts towards the favour of inf)While I usually really like your suggestions, joker, this one is complete bullshit imo. It would allow for things like a 18/16 build with 9 PS, 8 Athl, 8 WM, and 8 IF, which would be extremely OP. (and this is just an example). Also, why on earth should melee be at even more of an advantage over ranged than it is already? Almost every single nerf has benefited melee in some way of another. I agree that in the beginning ranged was OP, and that cav was and will always be powerful. But it is because of the mindset, there is no need to nerf them (as you yourself have mentioned so often). And this, such a huge buff to melee, would be a huge nerf for them...
An upkeep similar to those of high tier horses. As archers are at least as powerfull as hightier cav and at least as human as their horses.If you use bodkins, this is already in place.
While I usually really like your suggestions, joker, this one is complete bullshit imo. It would allow for things like a 18/16 build with 9 PS, 8 Athl, 8 WM, and 8 IF, which would be extremely OP. (and this is just an example). Also, why on earth should melee be at even more of an advantage over ranged than it is already? Almost every single nerf has benefited melee in some way of another. I agree that in the beginning ranged was OP, and that cav was and will always be powerful. But it is because of the mindset, there is no need to nerf them (as you yourself have mentioned so often). And this, such a huge buff to melee, would be a huge nerf for them...
If you use bodkins, this is already in place.
If you use bodkins, this is already in place.Lol, total fucking bullshit, my throwing lances cost more than your fucking bodkins, and they don't cost nearly as much as hightier horsies.
While I usually really like your suggestions, joker, this one is complete bullshit imo. It would allow for things like a 18/16 build with 9 PS, 8 Athl, 8 WM, and 8 IF, which would be extremely OP. (and this is just an example). Also, why on earth should melee be at even more of an advantage over ranged than it is already? Almost every single nerf has benefited melee in some way of another. I agree that in the beginning ranged was OP, and that cav was and will always be powerful. But it is because of the mindset, there is no need to nerf them (as you yourself have mentioned so often). And this, such a huge buff to melee, would be a huge nerf for them...
Lol, total fucking bullshit, my throwing lances cost more than your fucking bodkins, and they don't cost nearly as much as hightier horsies.But throwing is and has almost never been a really viable pure class, it is supposed to be a hybrid style, while archery is not.
joker: with some balanced numbers, it might not be as bad, but I still do not see why being melee should be rewarded with extra points. A similar but better imo idea would be to maybe increase the skills themselves (ie give PS an extra 2-3% per point).
Also your "infantry" box would be a huge nerf for hybrids, which noone ever thinks about, as we could not benefit from the infantry bits but we would still be hindered by the extra points we use. My suggestion would not touch them in comparison with the rest.
Archery currently works against anything except shields. Armor was also supposed to be a 'shield' against arrows which it currently isn't. Problem is not OP archer gear, it's weak armor.
So that would mean instead of nerfing archers we should nerf every class? U mad bro?How would making armor better nerf every class? I'm talking about high tier armor being more protective against ranged. I used to have mwtatars, mwLongbow + 9pd and it wrecked anything including tincans. That's one of many reasons there are so many archers because they are effective against almost anything.
Just because an arrow can hurt any shieldless target at a distance doesn't make archers effective against almost anything. Good bows are still slow and innacurate, arrows run out, and proper players still dodge them. Kill score and damage stats paint a more accurate picture of what ranged can do, despite what some people here say.I've been archer about 3 or 4 times now. mwTatars, mwLongbow + 9pd is the equivalent damage per shot of a flamberge + 12ps only the archer gets 40 arrows and can do that damage from a distance. If better armor actually worked well protecting against that I would think it's fair (simply wear good armor if you want protection). But since you still get wrecked even in plate I don't think it is fair.
I've been archer about 3 or 4 times now. mwTatars, mwLongbow + 9pd is the equivalent damage per shot of a flamberge + 12ps only the archer gets 40 arrows and can do that damage from a distance. If better armor actually worked well protecting against that I would think it's fair (simply wear good armor if you want protection). But since you still get wrecked even in plate I don't think it is fair.
And yet archers do less damage than any other class.
Good joke.
Lucky you I can't find that damn stats thread.
Haha what a joke... I actually went STF with mw bodkin arrows and mw longbow and PD 13!!! and only times the increased damage was noticeable was on point blank and with peasants.You can't have effective 13 pd, 9 is the most unless you are past level 30. Arrows lose damage over distance very fast? I suppose that depends on the distance and how much pd you have. Mine seemed to still be quite effective at long range. But I do notice on a daily basis melee players finding being shot to pieces by archers and crossbows very much unfun. Whether they suck or not really isn't the issue since this happens to even the best melee'rs. The thing is if a very good player chooses to be an archer there isn't much even the best melee player can do about that to win because chances are he's going to lose vs such an archer most of the time.
Arrows lose damage over distance very fast.
Cut the bullshit.
I just tried it again, I noticed the message of "low proficiency", but I can still pick up arrows?Even with that message you can pick arrows, the only difference is the effective power draw is reduced and accuracy should be shit
Archers have been nerfed to fuck compared to a year or even year and a half ago. In our strategus battles they typically make up less than 10% of the players we have on either team. That is pretty low considering any commander would likely want 25-33% of his army made up of archers (I know I can never get as many as I want).
Archer's don't need to be nerfed, infantry's awareness/teamwork needs a massive buff. Fight with teammates, stay behind your shielders, protect your own archers so they can shoot the enemy archers.
Most infantry that complain about archers are people who think they tactically can just run around in the open and not have to worry about what the enemy is doing.
Everything has strengths and weaknesses in this game, if archers are your bane, then you need to change something up.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/profile/?area=showposts;u=7438
Every single post he's made is against range class, lol
p.s. Ok maybe not every single, but a lot of posts are rage against range class
p.p.s. Go to melee server
random amount of crap mixed together with quite a dose of insults
"I want to be able to rambo charge at archers and kill them, but they are able to hit me before I can reach them, hence they are overpowered".
When you kill balanced build in Mw medium armor with two shots anywhere on body (not counting head) with no risk involved then there is something wrong.You can only 2 shot if you hit the chest or head. Or its really light armor and you hit the hands/feet. And it depends on the build and the bow . And ofc can a archer have 2 quivers in real live.
And don't tell me get a shield nooooob. Cause i can say get only one quiver for more realism noob.
You can only 2 shot if you hit the chest or head. Or its really light armor and you hit the hands/feet. And it depends on the build and the bow . And ofc can a archer have 2 quivers in real live.Many time I lost half health on my main by "toe" shot.
Many time I lost half health on my main by "toe" shot.
I doubt there were archers with 50+ arrows. Something between 20-30 will be more appropriate.
Btw. Weren't longbow arrows longer and and heavier than standard arrows.
These statistics were from Agincourt.(Juliet Barker's Agincourt: Henry V and the Battle That Made England (2006), ISBN 0-316-01503-2)Provided not mean carrying around..
A Welsh or English military archer during the 14th and 15th Century was expected to shoot at least ten 'aimed shots' per minute. An experienced military longbowman was expected to shoot twenty aimed shots per minute. A typical military longbow archer would be provided with between 60 and 72 arrows at the time of battle, which would last the archer from three to six minutes, at full rate of fire. Young boys were often employed to run additional arrows to longbow archers while in their positions on the battlefield.
Always go with historical fact checking over "gut feelings" :wink:
These statistics were from Agincourt.(Juliet Barker's Agincourt: Henry V and the Battle That Made England (2006), ISBN 0-316-01503-2)im all for giving archers 60 arrows aslong as you put bow weight and arrow weight to 10+ each, that way SOMEBUILD SOMEWHERE might just be able to fight archers
A Welsh or English military archer during the 14th and 15th Century was expected to shoot at least ten 'aimed shots' per minute. An experienced military longbowman was expected to shoot twenty aimed shots per minute. A typical military longbow archer would be provided with between 60 and 72 arrows at the time of battle, which would last the archer from three to six minutes, at full rate of fire. Young boys were often employed to run additional arrows to longbow archers while in their positions on the battlefield.
Always go with historical fact checking over "gut feelings" :wink:
Provided not mean carrying around..
So around 20-30 in quiver and additional in some sort of towing cart which make them snail pace and also destructible :mrgreen:
And we can have new class for newbies.. Behold mighty errand boy/girl :D
When ever I check quiver capacity in searcher I see 12 or 24 :shock:Whenever I check how many quivers/bags an archer carried I see 2 or 3. :shock:
These statistics were from Agincourt.(Juliet Barker's Agincourt: Henry V and the Battle That Made England (2006), ISBN 0-316-01503-2) ... Always go with historical fact checking over "gut feelings" :wink:
Whenever I check how many quivers/bags an archer carried I see 2 or 3. :shock:In every game, film(document or historical) you see archer almost exclusively with one quiver. Additional arrows sometimes stick in ground for easier grab(probably also for some pesky diseases), but now archers got 2 or 3 quivers on them. Maybe on war elephant when they do not need mobility. To have stick to the body 3 large quivers(coz 24 arrows cap. is considered large quiver) will hamper in your movement significantly not to mention ability to draw warbow. But we don't have war elephants or predeployed archer position in warband. We have Legolases with 50+ arrows on them running and drawing with speed of light.
Since each quiver or bag historically seems to range between 20-24, that is a bit more then your gut-check 30 limit.
Only ranged that has OP damage are MW arbs. with mw steel bolts, almost got 1 hit by Dave with 53 body armor and 15 str 0 IF.Crossbows have pierce damage...to be honest you're lucky you survived the shot
Only ranged that has OP damage are MW arbs. with mw steel bolts, almost got 1 hit by Dave with 53 body armor and 15 str 0 IF.
Dave one-shot me in a clan battle we had against mercs. He was shooting somewhat upwards (pretty tiny height difference, but still upwards) into my chest. Had 18 strength, 2 IF and 50 body armor. Died. Anyway, I rarely get one-shot by arbalests. Arbalests usually needs 2 shots, Rus Bows needs the exact same amount while being able to fire on the run and with a higher rate of fire. An arbalest guy will be a better melee unit though. Think it's quite balanced, maybe bows are a bit better, but not that much.
In every game, film(document or historical) you see archer almost exclusively with one quiver. Additional arrows sometimes stick in ground for easier grab(probably also for some pesky diseases), but now archers got 2 or 3 quivers on them. Maybe on war elephant when they do not need mobility. To have stick to the body 3 large quivers(coz 24 arrows cap. is considered large quiver) will hamper in your movement significantly not to mention ability to draw warbow. But we don't have war elephants or predeployed archer position in warband. We have Legolases with 50+ arrows on them running and drawing with speed of light.