cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Thucydides on March 26, 2011, 12:46:37 pm
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I've been playing for 3 months now and logged 340 hours of game time, i'm alright with Manual block and all that jazz but i've reach a plateau of sucking that is pissing me off. Anyone want to help me in game via practice to improve my overall skill?
Things i have difficulty atm:
- Fighting multiple opponents
- screwing up easy manual blocks
- dealing with good feinters/ players
- chambering
I have plateaued in improvement and i have no idea how to get better in my problem area, if anyone can volunteer their time in game to help me that would be much appreciated. Theorycraft is fine and all but unless i actually do it and ingrain it in my muscle memory, theorycrafting is pretty useless.
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Well, I learned chambering by spending 2 weeks on the duel server with only using left mouse button. Might not be the easiest way, but I learned.
*cue ninjas are spammers comment*
What's your spec and weapon?
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27/12 using a great long axe. I picked it because it was slow so i would have to block more but i still mess up easy obvious blocks and get fooled by feintspam or good players that feint
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with taht build and weap you will also block slower.
I suggest a 18/21 build with a 94/95 speed weapon
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27/12 using a great long axe. I picked it because it was slow so i would have to block more but i still mess up easy obvious blocks and get fooled by feintspam or good players that feint
Well feint is easily dealt with by spamming. Just try and read the pattern of the enemy, if he feints alot try and predict when he's going to feint and just spam him. With your str you only need a couple of hits to down him. Good players is a different story since they'll quickly catch up to your spamming, experience and being just as good is the only thing that'll save you against a good player.
with taht build and weap you will also block slower.
I suggest a 18/21 build with a 94/95 speed weapon
Um no you won't, where'd you get that idea. Block speed is constant.
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Go to native dueling servers.
Nditions and the Swadian server are the two best out there right now.
You will learn the tricks by fighting with good players a lot. Get ready for losing the first few duels, though.
This will help you in blocking&feinting. Also in Nditions there is a trainer npc who you can practice chambering with. It's hard to pull off all the time though, at least for me.
The cRPG duel server is another good one, if you want to learn the limits of your build/loadout.
When fighting multiple enemies, you have to pull off the best footwork you can. This way the players will either be afraid to attack, because they will hit their teammates, or they will teamdamage/teamkill their own mates, giving you a quick time window to sneak in some hits.
Don't stop, you have to keep moving around, all the time. If you pull this off well, you can fend off multiple opponents, at the same time.
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I am familiar with the duel servers as i frequent them whenever i see people in them. The problem is that i keep encountering the same problems over and over. A good player can just feint the shit out of me and do so in a way that makes it impossible for me to counterattack lest i get hit. I have literally died without getting a single attack or block off because of the feint. I also do stupid mistakes like blocking up instead of left or what have you. I don't know how to deal with it honestly.
For chambering, i find that my attacks come too late or too early before the animation can register the chamber
fighting multiple opponents is a crapshoot, sometimes i do good but i am not consistent. I've seen people backpeddle so that only one opponent can attack him at any given time and whenever i try that i get swarmed either way. So i run through people hoping they'd team hit each other but like i said, its a crapshoot.
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The best way to kill multiple opponents surrounding you is to know who in the group is going to be a problem to you. Focus on some guy you know you can beat to bait the better guy into thinking he has a free shot on you, and then turn and kill the better player. Pikesquads are a different story. Your best bet is to try and maneuver them so they're all coming at you from the same direction, and use an enemy as a shield from the pikes or just press hard at the pikes and try and bring them down first.
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Group fighting is the easiest. Try to bait in the secondary attacker and when you back is turned he probably has an attack chambered. Turn and swing at him! If you dont catch a kill, then he'll probably think twice before trying to hit you in the back again.
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- Fighting multiple opponents
Keeping your optimal range is the key imo. In most of the cases.
I am not a very good manual-blocker, so i tend to feint a lot, and keep multiple enemies at my poke/thrust range ( using German Poleaxe atm ).
EDIT: Having the heaviest armor you can afford - will discourage enemies from spamming you. So if you can - buy some shining chain-mail or plate. Drop expensive shoes/gloves, and get a nice helmet instead - you will look more impressive. This "fear factor" is not mentioned often, but it works! At least on the weaker minds of peasants. :)
- screwing up easy manual blocks
Nothing to do here, but practice, and prey for some luck.
Don't listen about "constant block speed" - it might be constant if you just block and don't attack. It might be. But more agility will let you ready your block in time after your own swing. I do not know if its Athletics, WP or pure Agility, but i am 100% blocking faster with all of the above.
- dealing with good feinters/ players
If your weapon is longer - keep you max range and hope he will miss a block :) If hes weapon is longer - charge in berserk rage, and hope for the best. Don't try to passively block incoming blows and back-paddle, it will show your weakness :)
- chambering
No idea. I do them by accident from time to time, but with your speed and weapon - don't bother. You need to release your weapon the SAME millisecond as your enemy...
Good luck! :lol:
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Forget chamber its useless (unless you are khorin :D), best way to fight multiple enemys is jumping into the crowd, keep moving and spam overhead attacks, with a bit luck they hit each other and you get some kills.
Killing some nubs with low block skills is as simple as killing peasants, one or two feints and they are fucked, same with good players. (best is: attack, block his attack, hold your attack 1~2 seconds waiting for him to release his block and kill him, works perfect :D)
Fastest way to get better at blocking is, yep you guessed right, practice practice and more practice.
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You can always go 1 hander. With a shield you will not have to worry about blocking in the wrong direction. To counter feints all you would have to do is listen for the moment the opponents weapon hits your shield. Both problems solved.
Fighting 2 or more opponents with a shield, switch up between one guy and the other, this works because people do not think about blocking while in a group they only think about hitting. So they just hold the left button and get ready to swing. When you switch between oponnets, they are usually surprised and not ready to block.
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Weapons being slow are not harder to chamber with, that is not true at all. Actually, there seems to be a slightly larger window with which you chamber if your weapon IS slower. Also, you chamber by prepping your attack as their weapon is almost about to collide with you, not as soon as they release. If your ping is higher, you need to react a bit faster but you can chamber anything with under 100 ping, past 100 ping side wings can hit you before your weapon begins to release unless you can predict the future.
If you want to do chambering practice, I'll help you with it to get your timing down perfectly. I can meet up with you in the duel server some time. Also, most BRD members will help you if you just talk to them and ask for practice of any kind.
Chamber timing varies slightly with weapon types and speeds, so you want to use the same weapon a lot. Chambering is as easy as a manual block IF and only IF: 1. Your ping is constant and not spiking, and under 90. You have blocked 2 attacks from the enemy to know HIS weapon's speed. 3. They aren't holding attacks.
A couple tips; If the opponent is feinting consistently through out the fight, DO NOT TRY TO CHAMBER OVERHEADS, as he will hit you with a side attack before your chamber hits him. However, chambering feints in other directions will hit the enemy before his feint hits you.
If you ever see wallace on the duel server, duel him. He chambers rather than manual block most of the time, and he uses slow hard hitting weapons on a 3 agi build but destroys most people because he chambers as his normal method of attacking. With a little footwork and a certain trick I can teach you to chamber back player's chambers which catches people off guard. Not only that, but you can get it as a good habit and do it without thinking if you practice it a lot. I myself need to make it a habit.
About manual blocking, I myself have this problem but it is mouse discipline and I am trying to fix my bad habits. Firstly, make sure you hold your mouse STRAIGHT. Most people hold their mouse slightly sideways to the left. Fix that. Also, try to move your mouse as little as possible with your block reflexes. I have a HUGE problem with my upper block where I twitch way too far, so after two up blocks I am looking at the sky and die to a side feint. It is my number one cause of death and I am not alone. Your body naturally tends to over shoot movements away from your body with your hand, like in Strategy games such as Starcraft 2 you always want to box units towards yourself as it is more precise. If you don't understand that last part, all it means is move your mouse tiny precise amounts. Takes time and lots of conscious attention to make it a good habit.
Group fighting people have largely covered already. With a strength build you want to get right up in their shit and kill the people who think they can attack you because you have your back turned, etc. With a high athletics character you want to back peddle and force it into a series of 1 v 1 fights with the possibility of suddenly darting forward and picking others off as well.
If you get blocking precision and chamber timing down, feinters will suddenly be the easiest kills for you. Hope to see you in game~
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Thucydides, I've got two questions:
Are you using Directx7 or 9?
What is your frame rate?
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Don't listen about "constant block speed" - it might be constant if you just block and don't attack. It might be. But more agility will let you ready your block in time after your own swing. I do not know if its Athletics, WP or pure Agility, but i am 100% blocking faster with all of the above.
My (currently) 29 agi pacifist with 94 wpf in melee blocks at exactly the same speed as when I make a new character. Faster weapons only feel faster at blocking after attacking because, well, it is. The attack animation finishes faster thus you have a faster window for recovery.
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I have a HUGE problem with my upper block where I twitch way too far, so after two up blocks I am looking at the sky and die to a side feint.
lol, i allways feel so embarressed when this is happening. you meet an opponent, do a good fight and suddenly you are looking in the sky and are absolute helpless. btw this is especially bad if fighting on steep slopes. can be a huge disadvantage when fighting on top, if the one lower makes an overhead its very hard to block it while keeping the sight of him.
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Thucydides, I've got two questions:
Are you using Directx7 or 9?
What is your frame rate?
how do i find this out?
and thanks for the help guys, i too have a tendency to overtwitch and end up looking up at nothing. At that point i just flail wildly and hope that the opponent gets scared away until i regain my senses.
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well, if you don't know your probably using dx9, dx7 is veeeery old and only needed for similar old machines. and it looks ... different.
you can turn on "show framerate" in video configuration before strartup.
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In general, a faster weapon is easier to use. It allows for more margin of error.
Maybe even try a shielder build. That helps a lot against multiple opponents and facing ranged.
Good tip about checking framerate. If the game runs smooth, everything is easier. Getting a stable 120-130 fps (i cap mine at 123) is optimal. I play with medium detail on 1920x1080.
Good tips about mouse usage. Make sure you don't make too large twitch movements to block and practice facing the right way all the time, even when manually blocking. Oh and footwork is incredibly important. High athletics really helps.
They way i see it there are three styles: facehugging, kiting and countering:
- Facehugging: a spammers favorite. Get up and close and try to get behind someone. Force them to turn heavily and attack agressively.
- Kiting: keep the opponent out of weapon range. Force them to walk forward to you by backpedaling and then swing and step forward. This gives you the initiative. Works great if you have a long and fast weapon.
- Countering: anticipate their swing. Be ready for it. Block it and swing back. If they block, either step back and kite or facehug and spam. If you feel confident, you might try chambering. But even after a 1000 hours, i still don't attempt to chamber much myself. It's risky. Don't spend much time on that, yet.
Oh and blocking speed is constant. Any weapon is good to block with. But the slower weapons are really hard to land a hit with, because the enemy gets lots of time to react.
Duels really help, especially if you are on teamspeak with them and they are giving you good feedback.
A good player can just feint the shit out of me and do so in a way that makes it impossible for me to counterattack
Not true. If a player feints, they often have a clear pattern. Actually, most people constantly faint once or twice. In that case: spam. It's a calculated risk; someone faints, you swing, they block, you immediately swing again. If they feint, you hit first.
Some players alternate normal attacks with feints. Harder to deal with. Try to anticipate the next feint and just boldy attack.
I also do stupid mistakes like blocking up instead of left or what have you. I don't know how to deal with it honestly.
I have the same problem. Most obvious solution: go 1h + shield, like me. :rolleyes:
If you want to preservere with the manual blocking, all i can say is practice makes perfect. Try duels where you only focus on blocking. This must become an automatic reflex. Relax. Don't tense up when dueling. Make sure you keep facing them dead on. Check if your mouse sensitivity is good. If you tend to pick up your mouse a lot, sensitivity is too low. High sensitivity makes it harder to manual block because you quickly end up looking at the sky. Block in very short, twitchy movements.
For facing multiple opponents althletics is key. Alternate between backpedaling so only one enemy can attack you and suddenly stepping forward in between enemies coupled with attacking the less obvious opponent (the one not closest to you). This often works well.
Agression and confidence are important. Perhaps a long, fast weapon suits you better. Experiment with the hafted blade or maybe the long hafted knobbed mace.
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I do find the LHSM to be easier to duel with, but depending on the size of battle i find the GLA to be far better due to its one hit+shield breaking ability.
I've learned today that codeine and Manual blocking does not work well together, god i sucked