cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Rumblood on May 06, 2012, 07:30:32 pm

Title: Buff cRPG
Post by: Rumblood on May 06, 2012, 07:30:32 pm
Here is a list of changes that should be reverted in the game. A long series of reductions to various abilities has narrowed the "effective" builds in this game, not increased it. It simply is not as fun (though still great being really the only game in town). But it could bring some of the fun that was lost because the type of fights that used to be simply don't exist anymore due to the mechanics.

Yes, these are all buffs.

In no particular order:

Make the reticule for ranged pinpoint accurate at 150 WPF at full longest range of the weapon. In other words, if a target is standing still, and you have your crosshairs on it (adjusting for the arc of course, it is actually an inch or so above), then you hit it.

Either increase damage, or increase missile speed for archery and throwing across the board.

Increase throwing ammo for low end weapons.

Buff athletics so that melee can move and dodge properly again. That means being able to use strafe properly, not by spinning left and right 90 degrees while charging forwards. It doesn't matter if ranged has pinpoint accuracy if the melee is no longer where the ranged shot.

Reduce the athletics penalty given to shielders. If you have to reduce the weight of shields to nothing to accomplish that, then do it.

Give cavalry their range back on poles on horseback. Let them spin around in a 360 as they want trying to catch those dancing melee again.

Take away the bonus damage to cavalry legs.

Add horse rear back to the polearms that had it removed.

Reduce the athletics penalty due to terrain variations.

Remove the unsheathable tag from weapons.

Increase IF to 2.5 to 3 per point.

Increase the weapon speed given to higher WPF.





Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Wraist on May 06, 2012, 07:37:33 pm
Pretty much, why to any of these, and a big no to reducing shield weight.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: bosco on May 06, 2012, 07:38:50 pm
Opinion below.

Make the reticule for ranged pinpoint accurate at 150 WPF at full longest range of the weapon. In other words, if a target is standing still, and you have your crosshairs on it (adjusting for the arc of course, it is actually an inch or so above), then you hit it.

Nope

Either increase damage, or increase missile speed for archery and throwing across the board.

Nope

Increase throwing ammo for low end weapons.

Nope

Buff athletics so that melee can move and dodge properly again. That means being able to use strafe properly, not by spinning left and right 90 degrees while charging forwards. It doesn't matter if ranged has pinpoint accuracy if the melee is no longer where the ranged shot.

Nope

Reduce the athletics penalty given to shielders. If you have to reduce the weight of shields to nothing to accomplish that, then do it.

Nope

Give cavalry their range back on poles on horseback. Let them spin around in a 360 as they want trying to catch those dancing melee again.

Nope

Take away the bonus damage to cavalry legs.

Yes

Add horse rear back to the polearms that had it removed.

Yes

Reduce the athletics penalty due to terrain variations.

Yes

Remove the unsheathable tag from weapons.

Yes

Increase IF to 2.5 to 3 per point.

Yes

Increase the weapon speed given to higher WPF.

Nope
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 06, 2012, 07:42:01 pm
Some good suggestions, though some I don't agree with. I think making range pinpoint at 150 is too much of a nerf to WM, and 170 would be more rewarding for the archers who have 7 or 8WM. 150 would encourage too many people to just stop at 6WM, or even 5 when making an archer.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Christo on May 06, 2012, 08:24:26 pm
Lobbyism at it's best.

There are some alright ideas, though.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: TurmoilTom on May 06, 2012, 09:07:07 pm
You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. +1
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: gazda on May 06, 2012, 09:26:06 pm
(click to show/hide)
doctor prescribed those pills for a reason, take them
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Rumblood on May 06, 2012, 09:28:51 pm
Some good suggestions, though some I don't agree with. I think making range pinpoint at 150 is too much of a nerf to WM, and 170 would be more rewarding for the archers who have 7 or 8WM. 150 would encourage too many people to just stop at 6WM, or even 5 when making an archer.

They would be able to have more than 1 wpf in their 0 slot weapon for the 2 slot bow users and 1 slot weapon for the 1 slot bow users. The increased WPF wouldn't be useless either, especially with the weapon speed increase due to higher wpf suggestion. The higher wpf archers would outdraw the ones that stop at 5 or 6 WM and destroy them in duels.

These are meant to be taken as an entire package. If you try to ala carte this, it would just result in different imbalances than we have now (and the game is certainly imbalanced).

Accuracy for ranged puts the build back into skill and not luck based. A missile speed increase (and a fix to the weird arc that suddenly has a funky dip on it instead of a smooth arc like it should) would put them back in a position to go after HX at far ranges again.

Melee athletics un-nerfed (buffed) would mean it would be that much harder to hit them, even at closer ranges. It would also mean athletic builds would regain the advantage their build is supposed to have in the first place.

Buff to IF compensates the strength builds for agility builds having more mobility. They will be able to take far more hits, especially with high IF and Plate.

Cavalry having the unrestricted lancing range compensates for the mobility and no leg damage bonus brings them back in closer instead of being the drive-by buttshankers they turned into.

Polearms regaining the horse rearing and losing the no sheathing tags allows them to get back to being an effective anti-cavalry build with the ability to switch to melee against infantry without losing their anti-cavalry role. Again, the 360 turn and removing the leg damage bonus compensates cavalry for it.
'
It all ties together. I feel like "the big picture" has been overlooked by many people focused on their own classes and the individual nerf mop over the last year.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Piok on May 06, 2012, 09:39:35 pm
Cav is good as it is. Maybe decrease in maneuverability. Compensated with slight buff in health and small increase in lancing arc (5-7 degrees).
This will help to reduce cav ninja behavior 8-)
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Kafein on May 06, 2012, 09:44:07 pm
No comments on earlier ideas but :

- Increase the base damage of all cut weapons.
- Buff +1 and +2 modifiers
- Increase top speed of both men (a lot) and horses (slightly less), decrease foot acceleration and turn speed.

[lobbyism]
- Increase the maneuver of all horses
- Increase the coverage of all non-round shields (maybe decrease the bonus from shield skill)
- Decrease the weight penalty of high tier armor
[/lobbyism]
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Tzar on May 06, 2012, 09:47:21 pm
Increase the base damage of all cut weapons.

Yeah because people are almost standing in line to use unbalanced blunt weapons or low reach pierce weapons instead of the standard greatsword/gla/poleaxes ..............  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Bjord on May 06, 2012, 09:50:51 pm
No.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Kafein on May 06, 2012, 09:59:05 pm
Yeah because people are almost standing in line to use unbalanced blunt weapons or low reach pierce weapons instead of the standard greatsword/gla/poleaxes ..............  :rolleyes:

Pierce and blunt weapons 2 shot people like they should. Cut weapons don't. Native works much better than cRPG when it comes to the speed at which people die in melee, and in Native if you are hit twice by any cut weapon you are lucky if you survive.

What you say is only true for the two weapon categories that have the highest average damage output. Pretty much all archer/xbowmen sidearms are either picks or maces because swords bounce like crazy. And shielders use a wide range of maces too, because 1h swords simply don't work at all under 12 str and only do ok against medium-high armor if you got 6PS or higher.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: dodnet on May 06, 2012, 10:32:49 pm
NO to almost everything of this, esp ranged buffs.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on May 06, 2012, 10:49:12 pm
do it all now! I dont accept only 360 degrece lancers, all other +1
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Brrrak on May 06, 2012, 11:21:37 pm
(click to show/hide)

All in all, I actually love these suggestions.  I might say that the wpf ceiling for 'perfect' aim could be raised a bit, but if taken in conjunction with agility buffs (which, to be fair, I am in no small bit supporting because of my own preference of agility builds), shouldn't prove to change the metagame too much, just make it a bit less nonsensical. 

If increasing projectile speed is what it takes to make ranged weapons (especially bows and arrows) more effective at longer ranges, then I certainly support this (not lobbyism, I hate all you ranged assholes on the battlefield :mrgreen:)

Depending on which throwing weapons receive an ammo buff, I'd be in support of that, since some of the lower tier ones can be surprisingly effective at higher investments in throwing.

Reducing shield weight is kind of a double-edged sword, I'd imagine.  If it's anything like with weapon weight, you might see increased block stun on shielders, which I can't possibly suggest is a good thing.

Completely 360 degree movement seems a bit excessive for cavalry, but a return to native values wouldn't be too much of an issue though, as far as I'm concerned. 

(click to show/hide)

The only issue I really take is with removing the unsheathable tags.  I think they, for the most part, make sense, and -- although it is kind of shoehorned in -- add another level to considering loadout. 
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Rumblood on May 07, 2012, 06:42:08 am
How silly of me. How could I not remember that putting the range buffs up top would cause the Rage haters (I mean range haters) to stop reading and click - ?

I like your additions Kafein.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Bobthehero on May 07, 2012, 07:06:52 am
Buff swashbucklers.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Vibe on May 07, 2012, 07:29:00 am
buff throwing hammers
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: ArchonAlarion on May 07, 2012, 07:14:46 pm
Make everything more ridiculous, fast, unrealistic,  spazzy, flinch-based, unstrategic, and gay please.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: _Tak_ on May 07, 2012, 07:25:08 pm
Cav is good as it is. Maybe decrease in maneuverability. Compensated with slight buff in health and small increase in lancing arc (5-7 degrees).
This will help to reduce cav ninja behavior 8-)

It's not ok for heavy Cav, try for urself and you will see the truth
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Kafein on May 07, 2012, 07:35:53 pm
How silly of me. How could I not remember that putting the range buffs up top would cause the Rage haters (I mean range haters) to stop reading and click - ?

I like your additions Kafein.

Btw I only like a subset of yours but discussing it wouldn't be constructive anyway.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: PanPan on May 07, 2012, 07:36:11 pm
IF buff? This is an indirect Ranged Nerf.  No damage Nerfs for ranged

Nerf Archery that They can't kite and give them more Meele weapon choices not only those little shitty 0 slot weps... (I'm an Archer)
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Joker86 on May 07, 2012, 07:40:32 pm
Make the reticule for ranged pinpoint accurate at 150 WPF at full longest range of the weapon. In other words, if a target is standing still, and you have your crosshairs on it (adjusting for the arc of course, it is actually an inch or so above), then you hit it.

Either increase damage, or increase missile speed for archery and throwing across the board.

And what is your suggestion to keeping the amount of ranged players at the current level, while buffing ranged back to the level when everyone and his mother was playing ranged?

Increase throwing ammo for low end weapons.

Throwing is a very delicate topic, because it becomes OP, annoying and abused most easily. That's why I would be very careful with changing throwing weapons, although basically I am not against your suggestion.

Buff athletics so that melee can move and dodge properly again. That means being able to use strafe properly, not by spinning left and right 90 degrees while charging forwards. It doesn't matter if ranged has pinpoint accuracy if the melee is no longer where the ranged shot.

Agreed on that.

Reduce the athletics penalty given to shielders. If you have to reduce the weight of shields to nothing to accomplish that, then do it.

Also agreed.

Give cavalry their range back on poles on horseback. Let them spin around in a 360 as they want trying to catch those dancing melee again.

If melee is dancing I suppose it's aware of cavalry and shouldn't be attacked at all, to keep cavalry balanced.

Take away the bonus damage to cavalry legs.

Not as long as the average anti-cavalry-skills of infantry and ranged don't increase massively. A horseman has practically no chance killing an infantryman or ranged player who both is ware of him and knows how to deal with cav. The knowledge for this is easily acquired. Still it seems too complicated for 90% of all people on the server. So with the current anti-cav-skills on the servers: no. If they improve: buff horse stats, lower upkeep, whatever, cav would be difficult as hell. But as it is now, it's easy as pie.

Add horse rear back to the polearms that had it removed.

Agreed, reason is one quote above.

Reduce the athletics penalty due to terrain variations.
Agreed, as it's basically already mentioned above.

Remove the unsheathable tag from weapons.

No. I think big weapons should remain main weapons only. "Backup" pikes, halberds and other weapons should stay as they are, I like the idea.

Increase IF to 2.5 to 3 per point.

Well, why not?

Increase the weapon speed given to higher WPF.

Also agreed, but don't buff it to old extends. Something in between would be optimal.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Rainbow on May 07, 2012, 08:47:00 pm
Make female characters significantly weaker then male characters and slower.  Give them a new fun hair style and an option to paint there nails to compensate.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Rumblood on May 07, 2012, 09:45:12 pm
IF buff? This is an indirect Ranged Nerf.  No damage Nerfs for ranged

Nerf Archery that They can't kite and give them more Meele weapon choices not only those little shitty 0 slot weps... (I'm an Archer)

I really love the selective reading going on. This is a PACKAGE, not an ala carte menu!

IF gets a buff, but you get accuracy + damage or missile speed increase and an athletics buff. They compensate for each other...

ALL of these compensate for each other, that is the point. To take the luck out of ranged, give melee compensating dodging ability, give cavalry compensating ability to poke those melee while not being penalized in the legs for being in there mixing it up, and compensation for the slower builds that choose IF so they can take 15 hits before going down.
Yes, it results in a faster, more skill based game where the different builds stand out rather than homogenize.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: TurmoilTom on May 07, 2012, 10:54:10 pm
The thing I love about this suggestion is that it makes the game more based on individual skill for everyone. While it would be nice to have the game more based around tactics the devs have made changes that easily show that that is not the direction they want to go in. Honestly, the only things I disagree with are the Ironflesh buff and the removal of the Unsheathable tag.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Brrrak on May 07, 2012, 11:25:59 pm
The thing I love about this suggestion is that it makes the game more based on individual skill for everyone. While it would be nice to have the game more based around tactics the devs have made changes that easily show that that is not the direction they want to go in. Honestly, the only things I disagree with are the Ironflesh buff and the removal of the Unsheathable tag.

What's the issue with the ironflesh buff?
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: TurmoilTom on May 07, 2012, 11:35:52 pm
What's the issue with the ironflesh buff?

The athletics buff that Rumblood mentions in the OP could be what finally makes agility based builds worth going for compared to strength builds. I feel like buffing a strength-based skill would offset that new balance. I suppose it depends on the degree to which athletics is buffed, but I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that the last thing strength builds need is a buff.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on May 08, 2012, 01:29:08 am
Reduce that stupid horse leg damage. having a heavy horse 1hit by a 1h is just plain stupid!
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 08, 2012, 05:01:19 am

Make the reticule for ranged pinpoint accurate at 150 170 WPF at full longest range of the weapon. In other words, if a target is standing still, and you have your crosshairs on it (adjusting for the arc of course, it is actually an inch or so above), then you hit it.

Increase throwing ammo for low end weapons.

Buff athletics so that melee can move and dodge properly again. That means being able to use strafe properly, not by spinning left and right 90 degrees while charging forwards. It doesn't matter if ranged has pinpoint accuracy if the melee is no longer where the ranged shot.

Reduce the athletics penalty given to shielders. If you have to reduce the weight of shields to nothing to accomplish that, then do it.

Give cavalry their range back on poles on horseback. Let them spin around in a 360 as they want trying to catch those dancing melee again.

Take away the bonus damage to cavalry legs.

Add horse rear back to the polearms that had it removed.

Reduce the athletics penalty due to terrain variations.

Remove the unsheathable tag from weapons.

Increase IF to 2.5 to 3 per point.

Increase the weapon speed given to higher WPF.

Increase the curve on WPF. Make it go up by 15 points each WM point.
Title: Re: Buff cRPG
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on May 08, 2012, 09:23:31 am
Opinion below.

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Nope

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Nope
So you are a full str cav , saying yes to everything that buff you , and no the other things?