cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: beniliusbob on April 21, 2012, 01:58:54 pm

Title: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: beniliusbob on April 21, 2012, 01:58:54 pm
The balance between lances and pikes/long spears is terrible and makes cav OP. Bamboo spear can't outreach a couched heavy lance; lancers can carry a back-up polearm or go one-hander + shield and lance, while a piker gets to carry his trusty back-up quarterstaff--i.e., get totally boned if a rider stops short, climbs down off his horse, and goes toe-to-toe with said piker.

What is this 3-slot knavery, anyway? You can't sheathe spears. I think that's enough. Let's go back to 2 slots, or make lances 3 slots to compensate. I don't want to have to rely on archers to take down cav.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Teeth on April 21, 2012, 02:00:22 pm
Quote from: beniliusbob on April 21, 2012, 01:58:54 pm
Bamboo spear can't outreach a couched heavy lance
wat
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Leshma on April 21, 2012, 02:01:03 pm
Just what we need, more pikes...
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: BlindGuy on April 21, 2012, 02:22:58 pm
Quote from: beniliusbob on April 21, 2012, 01:58:54 pm
Bamboo spear can't outreach a couched heavy lance

What game are YOU playing? My bamboo spear outreaches everything but pike/longspear...maybe yours is shorter...
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Gurnisson on April 21, 2012, 02:52:02 pm
Bamboo (without shield) is shorter than the heavy lance thrust, not the heavy lance couch.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: BlindGuy on April 21, 2012, 02:53:27 pm
Quote from: Gurnisson on April 21, 2012, 02:52:02 pm
Bamboo (without shield) is shorter than the heavy lance thrust, not the heavy lance couch.

This. Bamboo WITH shield can touch the moon
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Leshma on April 21, 2012, 07:10:04 pm
Quote from: Gurnisson on April 21, 2012, 02:52:02 pm
Bamboo (without shield) is shorter than the heavy lance thrust, not the heavy lance couch.

I'm pretty sure this isn't true.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Kafein on April 21, 2012, 07:18:19 pm
If you are outreached by any melee weapon on horse when you use a bamboo spear, you are doing it wrong or you were caught unaware.

Furthermore, you don't necessarily need any backup weapon if you use anything but a pike.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Leshma on April 21, 2012, 07:24:07 pm
I don't remember that I've ever been hit by heavy lance stab when I was (ab)using long awlpike which is shorter than heavy lance by 1 point. Bamboo is longer by 10 points.

Also, I can outreach most cav using 1H stab and I can outreach every cav in this game using greatswords.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Berserkadin on April 21, 2012, 08:24:50 pm
delete
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: BADPLAYERold on April 21, 2012, 08:54:30 pm
long spears/pikes aren't a big deal for cavalry players, making them back to 2slot just fucks over melee because unlike cavalry they can't run away from fights all the time and boy is it fun going up against massed long polearms in group fights.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Oberyn on April 21, 2012, 09:40:07 pm
Yup, that. Then everything you've said about heavy lance 2 slot (carry another polearm or 1H+shield) becomes applicable to melee pikes as well. They could just drop the longspear/pike and start using a poleaxe or a good 1h shield. In fact thered be no reason for any polearm or 1h foot build to not carry a longspear.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Gurnisson on April 21, 2012, 10:20:36 pm
You guys only face bad cav or something? Bamboo spear is shorter than heavy lance thrust but if the cav don't time it correctly your spear will easily reach the horse first. Bamboo without shield doesn't outreach a lancer swinging left correctly while stabbing at you at his right. However, even if this move makes him outstab you as bamboo user they're easily dodged by moving left/back
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Zerran on April 22, 2012, 03:14:27 am
Longspears and pikes are fine as they are, don't buff or nerf them. We don't need everyone running around with a longspear/pike and then a main weapon like it used to be. They're weapons for players dedicated to them, as it should be.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Aleskander on April 22, 2012, 03:37:53 am
What? Everything here is balanced
Players just suck
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Death_Dealer on April 22, 2012, 07:06:15 am
crpg community has no right to cry about lances anymore i think :mad: if u are being outreached by a couched lance while using pike/long spear or bamboo you must L2P. heavy lances need a massive speed buff. im not even mentioning the stupit rotation limit.

Long Spear                  Bamboo Spear               Heavy Lance
length:245                    length:200                      length:190               
weight:2.5                    weight:2                         weight:1.8
speed:81                      speed:90                        speed:74 this must be higher than bamboo this weapon is lighter and shorter
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: PikeDan on April 22, 2012, 12:42:56 pm
Pikes and Longspears are probably the most balanced they've been in a while. A good pikeman can typically screw an enemy line up if he's smart.

Hell, I'd go as far as saying the Bamboo Spear could be made 3 slots, if you really want random nerfs and buffs thrown around like most of the people in the game. Wouldn't effect me any, I'll be just fine with my 300 length pointy stick.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Gurnisson on April 22, 2012, 02:04:24 pm
Quote from: Death_Dealer on April 22, 2012, 07:06:15 am


Long Spear                  Bamboo Spear               Heavy Lance
length:245                    length:200                      length:190               
weight:2.5                    weight:2                         weight:1.8
speed:81                      speed:90                        speed:74 this must be higher than bamboo this weapon is lighter and shorter

Polearms on EU1:

Heavy Lance (mounted)             5,726,522  34.20%
Long Spear                        998,948    5.97%
Great Long Axe                    889,619    5.31%
Heavy Lance                       596,483    3.56%
War Spear                         590,172    3.53%

You want to buff heavy lance, really? Make it the best infantry support weapon and the best cav weapon? :lol:
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Mlekce on April 22, 2012, 02:21:20 pm
:lol: No dude u just suck as pikeman. No way  heavy lance can outreach bamboo spear.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: BlindGuy on April 22, 2012, 02:23:26 pm
Quote from: Mlekce on April 22, 2012, 02:21:20 pm
:lol: No dude u just suck as pikeman. No way  heavy lance can outreach bamboo spear.

Done well, it can, with right angle of aproach and timeing. But it is far easier for the spearman to get it right, and he has the advantage of being able to instantly change his direction.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Gurnisson on April 22, 2012, 02:37:06 pm
Quote from: BlindGuy on April 22, 2012, 02:23:26 pm
Done well, it can, with right angle of aproach and timeing. But it is far easier for the spearman to get it right, and he has the advantage of being able to instantly change his direction.

This
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Leshma on April 22, 2012, 03:04:19 pm
Quote from: BlindGuy on April 22, 2012, 02:23:26 pm
Done well, it can, with right angle of aproach and timeing. But it is far easier for the spearman to get it right, and he has the advantage of being able to instantly change his direction.

That isn't the point here. I can out range many cav with LEE stab. I can out range every single cav with greatsword, as I already said.

We're not talking about techniques infantry or horsemen use.

Also, no sane cav would charge any aware polearm user because chances are high that his horse will be stopped in place.

Some of the best cav do it, but not all the time.

Gurnisson, if you say again that I'm talking bullshit and that cav I'm facing are bad, in that case I challenge you to cav vs 2H duel. If you manage to hit me once when going full speed, I'll wrap these words written here and eat them with ketchup.

Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Kafein on April 22, 2012, 03:37:25 pm
Quote from: Leshma on April 22, 2012, 03:04:19 pm
That isn't the point here. I can out range many cav with LEE stab. I can out range every single cav with greatsword, as I already said.

We're not talking about techniques infantry or horsemen use.

Also, no sane cav would charge any aware polearm user because chances are high that his horse will be stopped in place.

Some of the best cav do it, but not all the time.

Gurnisson, if you say again that I'm talking bullshit and that cav I'm facing are bad, in that case I challenge you to cav vs 2H duel. If you manage to hit me once when going full speed, I'll wrap these words written here and eat them with ketchup.

A very good cav will manage to fuck up your timing once over 10 times or so if he got a good horse and plays with both angle and speed. Most footmen with weapons that need a "technique" to deal with cav always do the same thing (either dodging away then stabbing or going towards the horse's path to negate the horseman's angle) without trying the other one, which lets us hit you once in a while, because we can adapt to it if it doesn't change. But footmen that keep us guessing are more or less impossible to hit.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Rebelyell on April 22, 2012, 03:54:03 pm
another rage cav nerf thread........
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: beniliusbob on April 22, 2012, 04:26:18 pm
Sorry guys, PRO clan was trampling NA 1 when I wrote this, so I guess my argument is invalid.

But seriously you're all a bunch of douchebags, gimme 2 slot long spear.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Rebelyell on April 22, 2012, 04:47:23 pm
dude there is nothing around like PRO clans most of them are free to join
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: _Tak_ on April 22, 2012, 05:24:03 pm
Compare heavy lance and light lance, you will find that light lance deal more damage, which means the OP lance has been already nerf and yet it doesn't make any sense because compare both lance from the picture the heavy lance should have higher dmg than light lance. but again everyone whines about cav everyday
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Death_Dealer on April 22, 2012, 11:55:00 pm
Quote from: beniliusbob on April 22, 2012, 04:26:18 pm
Sorry guys, PRO clan was trampling NA 1 when I wrote this, so I guess my argument is invalid.

But seriously you're all a bunch of douchebags, gimme 2 slot long spear.

unsheatables should not take any slots imo. we are not putting them in our pockets just carrying with our hands. im serious.
Quote from: Gurnisson on April 22, 2012, 02:04:24 pm
Polearms on EU1:

Heavy Lance (mounted)             5,726,522  34.20%
Long Spear                        998,948    5.97%
Great Long Axe                    889,619    5.31%
Heavy Lance                       596,483    3.56%
War Spear                         590,172    3.53%

You want to buff heavy lance, really? Make it the best infantry support weapon and the best cav weapon? :lol:

sure why not? game balance? lol. i pay tons of upkeep to get nerfed to be equal with foot team? remove blocking from lances and longer wpns i wont complain about that bc they cant irl. realism for whatever it costs. a lighter and shorter wpn must be faster than the other one.
we use it bc it is one of the few reasonable wpns to use on a horseback, not bc its op or something.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 23, 2012, 12:55:01 am
Yay I made the horrible suggestion vanish
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Gurnisson on April 23, 2012, 03:47:13 am
Quote from: Death_Dealer on April 22, 2012, 11:55:00 pm
unsheatables should not take any slots imo. we are not putting them in our pockets just carrying with our hands. im serious.
sure why not? game balance? lol. i pay tons of upkeep to get nerfed to be equal with foot team? remove blocking from lances and longer wpns i wont complain about that bc they cant irl. realism for whatever it costs. a lighter and shorter wpn must be faster than the other one.
we use it bc it is one of the few reasonable wpns to use on a horseback, not bc its op or something.

Should've had a facepalm pic now.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Aleskander on April 23, 2012, 01:35:59 pm
Quote from: Gurnisson on April 23, 2012, 03:47:13 am
Should've had a facepalm pic now.
Here you go
Quote from: Death_Dealer on April 22, 2012, 11:55:00 pm
unsheatables should not take any slots imo. we are not putting them in our pockets just carrying with our hands. im serious.
sure why not? game balance? lol. i pay tons of upkeep to get nerfed to be equal with foot team? remove blocking from lances and longer wpns i wont complain about that bc they cant irl. realism for whatever it costs. a lighter and shorter wpn must be faster than the other one.
we use it bc it is one of the few reasonable wpns to use on a horseback, not bc its op or something.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Vibe on April 23, 2012, 01:41:01 pm
Yes, let's have 50% of melee players carry Long Spears and Pikes again.
Title: Re: Nerf lances/un-nerf pikes and long spears
Post by: Oberyn on April 23, 2012, 03:57:51 pm
Quote from: Gurnisson on April 22, 2012, 02:04:24 pm
Polearms on EU1:

Heavy Lance (mounted)             5,726,522  34.20%
Long Spear                        998,948    5.97%
Great Long Axe                    889,619    5.31%
Heavy Lance                       596,483    3.56%
War Spear                         590,172    3.53%

You want to buff heavy lance, really? Make it the best infantry support weapon and the best cav weapon? :lol:

Those numbers include dmg vs horses, yes?