cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 12:48:26 am

Title: Fencing Foil
Post by: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 12:48:26 am

I was playing the Warband mod "Sword of Damocles: Warlords" and saw this beauty:

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I think it's more than a decent enough model, and the pictures tell enough, so on to the stats.

The stats for the foil I'm using in SoD:W are the following:

.8 weight
45 pierce on stab
116 reach
113 speed

Yeah... No. Definitely won't do. The reach, however is important for us because we're using the same model. So throughout this entire discussion I think we should stick with the 116 reach. The .8 weight sounds pretty good to me, too.

As far as stats go I think we have several options available to us. Here's what I'm thinking:

1) A stab only weapon. High damage, speed and reach while sacrificing all other attack directions.

We already have one handed swords that have high stab damage and speed at the sacrifice of swinging damage (The Espada brothers come to mind), but what about a weapon that sacrifices swinging entirely for even higher speed and damage? Would be very cool, in my opinion, and good for weapon variety.

Here's what I propose, stat-wise:

Weapon Length: 116
Weight: .8
Difficulty: 9
Speed: 100
Thrust Damage: 32 Pierce
Swing Damage: 0
Slots: 1
Cost: 13,000 or so

I didn't spend much time thinking about stats. It's the balance team's say as far as that goes, but I think these would be good stats to use. You may think that the 116 weight combined with the 100 speed and 32 pierce is over the top, but I think it compensates well for the extremely picky one handed stab animation (that this weapon will use 100% of the time) and the low weight, which will result in more glances. The low difficulty would make it more appealing to extreme agility builds, which, frankly, I think cRPG needs more of. I'm going for a weapon that is only deadly in the right hands.

2) Low blunt damage on swings. Less pierce and speed than the previous setup but less predictable.

Pretty straightforward, here's an example of what I think are some decent stats:

Weapon Length: 116
Weight: .8
Difficulty: 9
Speed: 99
Thrust Damage: 30 Pierce
Swing Damage: 18 Blunt
Cost: 13,000 or so.

Very similar to the above, but with lower speed and thrust damage for a blunt swing. Would be very similar to the Long Espada with the exception of higher length and thrust damage while sacrificing swing damage (1 more swing damage than the one handed club) and weight. Same difficulty as above for the same reasons.

Too lazy to type other ideas for stats (such as heirloom bonuses) at the moment. Will do later, maybe after a hot meal and a good night sleep.  Feel free to call me an idiot for bogus stat suggestions, for all I know they very well could be. But that's all they are, suggestions! 8-)

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Ricky77 on April 19, 2012, 01:12:00 am

awsome idea. fencing would be amazing

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Andy on April 19, 2012, 01:37:30 am

*Sees someone with foil*
Down Block!

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Boerenlater on April 19, 2012, 01:54:00 am

Blocking with that would just bend your tiny sword.

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: Vkvkvk on April 19, 2012, 03:37:48 am

I don't really know anything about fencing swords, but wouldn't a sword like that bend on a stab on anything higher than Leather over cloth or padded cloth?

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 03:48:58 am

Quote from: Vkvkvk on April 19, 2012, 03:37:48 am

I don't really know anything about fencing swords, but wouldn't a sword like that bend on a stab on anything higher than Leather over cloth or padded cloth?

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/board,69.0.html

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In all seriousness, you're most likely right. If I recall correctly, the rapiers and fencing foils were used primarily as dueling weapons (and obviously the stats I recommend would make for poor dueling stats, heh), but realism isn't the goal here. The goal is to add a cool looking weapon that can hold its own. In short, adding balanced content. If it was only able to do damage against cloth or leather we'd have to make it cheaper than a 0 slot hammer, because the hammer can do better than that. Below a short hammer is not where I think the rapier belongs.

Also, poll added.

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: Slev23 on April 19, 2012, 05:07:03 am

The problem with Rapiers and Foils, beyond the stabbing, is they can not block any weapon that has any mass. A rapier is incredibly thin and would snap trying to block anything. That's why most fencing duels in real life had a main gauche in the off hand for blocking. Though, I do love the look of the Rapier myself.

Edit: As a stabbing weapon, it would do fairly well against anything but plate, could easily stab through chain.

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: Malaclypse on April 19, 2012, 06:02:30 am

Maybe make it effectively a big dagger, no regular blox. Give it those 0 damage swings (or like, 2 blunt damage side-swings, something inconsequential) to allow for ripostes.

Overall I like the idea of something like this making it's way into cRPG.

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: isatis on April 19, 2012, 06:07:11 am

it has come in discussion a while ago, but not with such a beauty model!!

I WANT DIS!

make it a pro sword, like chamber only like a baws!!

yes i'm mala's fan! what? ok he stole my kitty but i still love him!

+1

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: B3RS3RK on April 19, 2012, 07:34:15 am

I want it, but please, dont make it more expensive than 10k gold.That shit´s ridiculous.

Oh and btw. I would be for the version with the blunt swing.A Stab only weapon like that wouldnt really do any good.

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: SirProto on April 19, 2012, 07:41:48 am

I want this soooooooooo much  :mrgreen:   :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:

The swings should do relatively little damage (maybe 5/6 cut?) and the stab should compensate (33/34 pierce?) It should be relatively quick too, allowing it to chamber more effectively if its not going to use blocks and it shouldn't cost 13000 gold, maybe something like between the 6000-7000 price range

Quote from: Malaclypse on April 19, 2012, 06:02:30 am

Maybe make it effectively a big dagger, no regular blox. Give it those 0 damage swings (or like, 2 blunt damage side-swings, something inconsequential) to allow for ripostes.

exactly like this  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: Vibe on April 19, 2012, 11:15:52 am

If you're adding rapiers add fucking PIRATES TOO

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: Teeth on April 19, 2012, 02:07:32 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoc

makes more sense historically and realistically.

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: Mallets on April 19, 2012, 05:47:13 pm

Quote from: SgtTeeh on April 19, 2012, 02:07:32 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoc

makes more sense historically and realistically.

+1

And I'm not sure if the Estoc was effectively used to block/parry attacks... but it'd have to be sturdier than the super-thin rapier!

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: Shik on April 19, 2012, 05:54:11 pm

rapiers are actual swords, foils are glorified sewing needles

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 06:01:28 pm

Quote from: Shik on April 19, 2012, 05:54:11 pm

rapiers are actual swords, foils are glorified sewing needles

Ah, okay. I'll edit the name of the thread, then. Thanks.

Quote from: SgtTeeh on April 19, 2012, 02:07:32 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoc

makes more sense historically and realistically.

It just so happens that SoD:W also has an Estoc.

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Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: PanPan on April 19, 2012, 06:03:28 pm

12 27 Fencer Oh yeah and OHH YEAH My last name means Fencer!!!!!

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: B3RS3RK on April 19, 2012, 06:13:04 pm

Quote from: PanPan on April 19, 2012, 06:03:28 pm

12 27 Fencer Oh yeah and OHH YEAH My last name means Fencer!!!!!

I have a alt like that called Superior_Fencing_Techniques :D

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: PanPan on April 19, 2012, 06:26:13 pm

This:

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Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 24

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 5
    Athletics: 7
    Weapon Master: 6

    One Handed: 156

Or this?:

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Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 24

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Power Strike: 5
    Shield: 8
    Athletics: 6
    Weapon Master: 4

    One Handed: 140

Planning on some STF-Alt char.

Title: Re: Rapier/Fencing Foil
Post by: Teeth on April 19, 2012, 06:34:04 pm

Quote from: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 06:01:28 pm

Ah, okay. I'll edit the name of the thread, then. Thanks.

And here I was, expecting you to remove the fencing foil part.

Title: Fencing Foil
Post by: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 06:42:30 pm

Quote from: SgtTeeh on April 19, 2012, 06:34:04 pm

And here I was, expecting you to remove the fencing foil part.

Aren't Estocs and Fencing Foils different?

The model I show in the OP is a fencing foil model. The model I show in my reply to your post is the Estoc:

Quote from: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 06:01:28 pm

It just so happens that SoD:W also has an Estoc.

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Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Teeth on April 19, 2012, 07:03:23 pm

Quote from: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 06:42:30 pm

Aren't Estocs and Fencing Foils different?

The model I show in the OP is a fencing foil model. The model I show in my reply to your post is the Estoc:

What I mean is that Shik said that the rapier is an actual sword and the fencing foil is a glorified sewing needle. Because he said that, you edited the name of the thread, which is what I quoted. I just expected you to take the fencing foil out and leave the rapier in, but you did it the other way around.

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 07:13:09 pm

Quote from: SgtTeeh on April 19, 2012, 07:03:23 pm

What I mean is that Shik said that the rapier is an actual sword and the fencing foil is a glorified sewing needle. Because he said that, you edited the name of the thread, which is what I quoted. I just expected you to take the fencing foil out and leave the rapier in, but you did it the other way around.

Why would I edit the correct part out?   :?

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Mallets on April 19, 2012, 07:38:25 pm

Quote from: TurmoilTom on April 19, 2012, 07:13:09 pm

Why would I edit the correct part out?   :?

What I think Teeh is trying to say is that the Foil is not a viable weapon for battle.  It's only a fencing weapon.  Therefore, the idea of a foil should be removed all together.

However, the Estoc is a weapon that was used in actual battlefield combat.  He's suggesting that you rename the post "Estoc" or "Estoc/Rapier".  And try to push for them to be installed in the game.

They are definitely more realistic options for combat!

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Rainbow on April 19, 2012, 08:50:21 pm

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,28612.0.html

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Rumblood on April 19, 2012, 08:54:40 pm

Quote from: Boerenlater on April 19, 2012, 01:54:00 am

Blocking with that would just bend your tiny sword.

But blocking with a wooden polearm shaft against an axe head wouldn't cause it to snap in half?

Love the selective "realism" comments  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Kaoklai on April 19, 2012, 09:00:36 pm

I like the idea of a long 1h with strong stab and weak swings but I dislike the foil model.

Something like the non-basket hilted rapiers here might fit better

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Or the cup hilt rapiers here.  Preserving the cup hilt gives it a very unique and attractive profile.

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The estoc or tuck as a 2h would be welcome but doesn't scratch quite the same itch.

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Vkvkvk on April 20, 2012, 05:50:31 am

Quote from: Rumblood on April 19, 2012, 08:54:40 pm

But blocking with a wooden polearm shaft against an axe head wouldn't cause it to snap in half?

Love the selective "realism" comments  :rolleyes:

The polearm shaft were usually reinforced with metal, and depending on the wood, it could cause the wood to warp instead of breaking, sure you won't be fighting at your best with a warped weapon but you can still do it.

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: B3RS3RK on April 20, 2012, 07:33:17 am

Quote from: PanPan on April 19, 2012, 06:26:13 pm

Planning on some STF-Alt char.

I´d definately go for 12/27.

For my Alt, I use the Espada eslavona, and having 9 Athletics is really a plus if you want to play fencing-style.

Once you have 9 Athletics, it´s easy to back up from the fight and run in to stab anytime.Marvellous.

Oh and you will still rarely glance.I dont know why, but I almost never glance on that Alt, even on swings with 4 ps.

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: SirProto on April 20, 2012, 07:38:05 am

Quote from: B3RS3RK on April 20, 2012, 07:33:17 am

I´d definately go for 12/27.

For my Alt, I use the Espada eslavona, and having 9 Athletics is really a plus if you want to play fencing-style.

Once you have 9 Athletics, it´s easy to back up from the fight and run in to stab anytime.Marvellous.

Oh and you will still rarely glance.I dont know why, but I almost never glance on that Alt, even on swings with 4 ps.

I'm planning to do a build like that once I heirloom my side sword  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Materia on April 20, 2012, 10:49:48 am

This is some future barbecue pack? It looks like a thing to make a shashliks . We can make a party!

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: PanPan on April 20, 2012, 01:50:11 pm

Quote from: B3RS3RK on April 20, 2012, 07:33:17 am

I´d definately go for 12/27.

For my Alt, I use the Espada eslavona, and having 9 Athletics is really a plus if you want to play fencing-style.

Once you have 9 Athletics, it´s easy to back up from the fight and run in to stab anytime.Marvellous.

Oh and you will still rarely glance.I dont know why, but I almost never glance on that Alt, even on swings with 4 ps.

Noice but 9 wm? Or invest in something other?

EDIT: Wich sword?! Side or Long Espada?

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Arrowblood on April 20, 2012, 01:53:12 pm

Quote from: B3RS3RK on April 20, 2012, 07:33:17 am

I´d definately go for 12/27.

For my Alt, I use the Espada eslavona, and having 9 Athletics is really a plus if you want to play fencing-style.

Once you have 9 Athletics, it´s easy to back up from the fight and run in to stab anytime.Marvellous.

Oh and you will still rarely glance.I dont know why, but I almost never glance on that Alt, even on swings with 4 ps.

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: B3RS3RK on April 20, 2012, 01:53:37 pm

Quote from: PanPan on April 20, 2012, 01:50:11 pm

Noice but 9 wm? Or invest in something other?

EDIT: Wich sword?! Side or Long Espada?

Yeah 9 Wm.Lightning strikes :D

I use the normal Espada.I think it looks the most like an actual fencing weapon.

/edit: Also Deutschritter pointed it out already :D thanks.

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: PanPan on April 20, 2012, 01:55:36 pm

ups :(

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Aleskander on April 20, 2012, 04:57:14 pm

Quick devs, everyone likes it
better not implement it ever

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Tigero on April 20, 2012, 05:23:15 pm

Lol these guys being a bit ignorant here ''you can't block with a rapier because its so thin'' Tell me a one handed sword that can block even a chocholate bar and you are a hero. I think this wouldnt work, if you make it unable to block with it will be completely useless, if you make it blockable with, its op. And you can always use shortened spear for stabspam + polestagger!

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Teeth on April 20, 2012, 05:36:13 pm

Quote from: Kaoklai on April 19, 2012, 09:00:36 pm

The estoc or tuck as a 2h would be welcome but doesn't scratch quite the same itch.

Estoc's also existed as 1h weapons, most were 2h though.

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: HUtH on April 20, 2012, 07:23:38 pm

noone said that foil is just gay?  :lol:

Title: Re: Fencing Foil
Post by: Aleskander on April 21, 2012, 12:25:36 am

Fencing is a manly sport
For manly men
With chest hair and beards

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