cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: burakx on March 15, 2011, 07:01:47 pm

Title: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: burakx on March 15, 2011, 07:01:47 pm
Well we saw the earthquek in japan.they are the people who get used to earthqueks.but now they are gonna suffer for nuclear fallout.

im saking again:

Do we need them ?
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 15, 2011, 07:05:56 pm
Yes, they're a "clean" source of energy, produce almost no pollution.

And it's actually pretty safe, hell a 8.9 earthquake with a big ass tsunami and all that crap and the core is still standing and contained in one of those japanese nuclear plant.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: burakx on March 15, 2011, 07:15:11 pm
Yes, they're a "clean" source of energy, produce almost no pollution.

And it's actually pretty safe, hell a 8.9 earthquake with a big ass tsunami and all that crap and the core is still standing and contained in one of those japanese nuclear plant.

well im gonna see your clean power when people start giving a birth babys with 3 legs or 1 eye.you will never learn your lesson from history arent you ... its not mother natures fault !
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 15, 2011, 07:17:28 pm
Ok, cool, having to deal with someone ignorant.

I'll just take my leave, so have fun with your 3 legged babies.

Fast little edit: Nuclear power is more green than most other sources of power.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Erika_Furudo on March 15, 2011, 07:25:21 pm
Currently so do we need them. We don't have that much of power income available so we need everything we can get.
And as mentioned nuclear power is much more enviroment friendly if we compare to our biggest source of power - oil.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Wulzzz on March 15, 2011, 07:25:56 pm
Yes, they're a "clean" source of energy, produce almost no pollution.

And it's actually pretty safe, hell a 8.9 earthquake with a big ass tsunami and all that crap and the core is still standing and contained in one of those japanese nuclear plant.

Well yes.
If you can find a way to store all the radioactive dirt for hundred thousands of years SAFELY.
Or actually design nuclear power plants that don't fuck up whole regions when they explode or stuff.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Korrupted on March 15, 2011, 07:26:45 pm
I would say no, we do not need it. Nuclear reactor's were designed to power submarines not cities. Earthquake or not, they are dangerous and do pollute.

All that aside, don't know how informed you all are but there have been 3 explosion's thus far in Japan. The Japanese government isn't giving all the details, I just hope the radiation doesn't spread to far.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 15, 2011, 07:28:11 pm
I would say no, we do not need it. Nuclear reactor's were designed to power submarines not cities. Earthquake or not, they are dangerous and do pollute.

All that aside, don't know how informed you all are but there have been 3 explosion's thus far in Japan. The Japanese government isn't giving all the details, I just hope the radiation doesn't spread to far.

I'd be glad if the radiation was to spread so that it could kill a bit of the world's stupidity.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: burakx on March 15, 2011, 07:42:13 pm
I'd be glad if the radiation was to spread so that it could kill a bit of the world's stupidity.


well i understand from that sentence you gonna die first.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Vance on March 15, 2011, 07:54:53 pm
Nuclear power might help prevent a load of wars over resources.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Joxer on March 15, 2011, 07:55:21 pm
Wtf is this constant fear mongering? Greenies got their titties in a twist over this? What happened was absolutely the worst possible case scenario. Even that didn't cause a nuclear holocaust like these idiots would like you to believe. Not to mention that this crap pile was over 40 years old to boot. Then you make statements of '3 eyed babies' and shit. Yeah lets see what that does to world health when we dont have electricity to run hospitals, store food etc. Then to boot we can use traditional power sources just to satisfy your green perversion and see how that'll work. That shit causes tons of pollution. That'll save the planet.  :mad:
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 15, 2011, 08:00:26 pm
Wtf is this constant fear mongering? Greenies got their titties in a twist over this? What happened was absolutely the worst possible case scenario. Even that didn't cause a nuclear holocaust like these idiots would like you to believe. Not to mention that this crap pile was over 40 years old to boot. Then you make statements of '3 eyed babies' and shit. Yeah lets see what that does to world health when we dont have electricity to run hospitals, store food etc. Then to boot we can use traditional power sources just to satisfy your green perversion and see how that'll work. That shit causes tons of pollution. That'll save the planet.  :mad:

But dude! You have to understand, 3 legged babies!!!!!11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Siiem on March 15, 2011, 08:01:51 pm
But dude! You have to understand, 3 legged babies!!!!!11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Well let's ask our native chernobylian, Mtemtko hows the radiation working for yah eastern europeans?
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: LordRichrich on March 15, 2011, 08:05:13 pm
I would say no, we do not need it. Nuclear reactor's were designed to power submarines not cities. Earthquake or not, they are dangerous and do pollute.

All that aside, don't know how informed you all are but there have been 3 explosion's thus far in Japan. The Japanese government isn't giving all the details, I just hope the radiation doesn't spread to far.

Many things we have now came from military use. Remote controlled cars were initially a military project. And aeroplanes. You can't say we shouldn't use it because it was designed for military use, not commercial
Anyway, how else is Japan gonna power itself?
They had to invade part of China after  world war one or two (can't remeber which). They have very natuarl resources and the cost to go green would be billions. Japan can't afford billions right now, lets face it. It would also take, money no object, at LEAST one decade for Japan to become fully powered by green energy. And there's all the visual pollution caused by the way they would harness the green energy
Nuclear power is likely to be the largest source of energy in the next 20 years. If it isn't, it will defintly be second
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Christo on March 15, 2011, 08:05:29 pm
The risks of NPP-s are obvious to all. Problem is that this is the most effective Power Source of this time. Period.

How would we replace them? Solar Panels? Wind Farms?
These "Green" technologies aren't effective at all, they are in their early periods of developement, taking too much space, and not generating enough power to give up all the land.

We have to live with this, until we find a better power source.

Fusion Reactors could be the answer for this, but that isn't even possible with our current tech. level.
Only problem with Fusion Cores that they would destroy a huge area around them if they blow up. But no Radioactive fallout at least.
It's like "Pick your Poison.".
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Siiem on March 15, 2011, 08:11:09 pm
If only japan had the techonolgy to take advantage of wave power... Tasteless?
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Zoidberg on March 15, 2011, 08:12:34 pm
THE POWER OF PRAY!
 :P use it!
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Ronish on March 15, 2011, 08:16:35 pm
Nuclear power is needed. It'd be great if we could all rely on solar/wind/etc. for our power, but our power needs are too high.

What happened in Japan is about the worst possible situation for the reactors. They were hit with the worst earthquake known to have hit Japan, they lost most of their equipment, and are without power in the facilities. Yet, no nuclear catastrophe. This with 40+ year-old reactors made from designs even older than that. Modern designs are even better (as far as building new plants).

The only nuclear reactor that had a meltdown was at Chernobyl and that was because the staff disengaged safety systems for a 'test' or because the reactor was designed poorly. There are reports to back up both views (probably caused by all the above though). 
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 15, 2011, 08:17:55 pm
Well since nuclear plans produces radioactive wastes that has to be stored for thousands of years, i wouldn't call it green energy.
Also don't know about other countries but here in italy there are many reports of a rise of deformities and diseases near nuclear power plants in the '80, and after cernobyl we shutted all down.
We had a lot of incidents (even in japans) this years, luckly not bad as this, and now all north eastern japan is contamined (in tokyo, very far from the plant is already 10 times natural values). And we all know this could and still can get much worse then that.

Yes,  we put shitloads of shit everyday in the atmosphere, but i think we can all agree nothing is nearly as bad as nuclear fallout.
Also nuclear plants consumes a lot of precious water (and you can't use sea water) uranium prices are going up more then oil prices, and is really hard to get insurance companies to cover nuclear plants, guess why.  :rolleyes:.
In fact without state subsides nobody would build nuclear plants and that tells a lot over nuclear power safety and profitabilty. Ofc they have the best safety measures compares to other eletric plants, if a refinery explode is a disaster, but if a nuclear power plant explode the risks are much much worse.

Also, nobody thinks about terrorist attacks? wars? How bad could be a 9/11 strike with an airplane over a nuclear power plant for example?
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 15, 2011, 08:20:26 pm
Nuclear power is needed. It'd be great if we could all rely on solar/wind/etc. for our power, but our power needs are too high.

What happened in Japan is about the worst possible situation for the reactors. They were hit with the worst earthquake known to have hit Japan, they lost most of their equipment, and are without power in the facilities. Yet, no nuclear catastrophe. This with 40+ year-old reactors made from designs even older than that. Modern designs are even better (as far as building new plants).

The only nuclear reactor that had a meltdown was at Chernobyl and that was because the staff disengaged safety systems for a 'test' or because the reactor was designed poorly. There are reports to back up both views (probably caused by all the above though).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents plus much more not mentioned there. Cernobyl was just the worst but surely not the only.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Siiem on March 15, 2011, 08:20:40 pm
Also, nobody thinks about terrorist attacks? wars? How bad could be a 9/11 strike with an airplane over a nuclear power plant for example?

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Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: tony on March 15, 2011, 08:21:31 pm
This isn't the first tmie Japan was involved in a nuclear incident lols
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 15, 2011, 08:23:00 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Whoa that's enlighting,  the response you would expect from a merc indeed.

In reality, nuclear plants are the first targets in case of a serious war, togheter with dikes and nuclear silos. Also it's ovious that they are in danger of terrorism, are you really sure a nuclear plant can't get to fusion point after a 747 crashes at full speed on it?
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: burakx on March 15, 2011, 08:29:20 pm
in turkey edirne citty they build 17 windmills.now they can give electricity 65.000 house and 5 glass factorys.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Siiem on March 15, 2011, 08:29:44 pm
So your solution to a country with little to no resources to produce electricity is... "weeeell we can't build a nuclear powerplant because someone MGIHT do a terrorist attack" if you let terrorists decide your infastructure, you have basicly lost and the terrorists have won.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 15, 2011, 08:45:21 pm
in turkey edirne citty they build 17 windmills.now they can give electricity 65.000 house and 5 glass factorys.

And let me guess, 1 glass factory is getting electricity and the 4 other with the 65,000 houses are getting nothing?

Also I call bullshit, 1 mill can produce about 2MW.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: ShadowofWoe on March 15, 2011, 08:47:30 pm
And let me guess, 1 glass factory is getting electricity and the 4 other with the 65,000 houses are getting nothing?

Depends on the wind.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 15, 2011, 08:48:09 pm
So your solution to a country with little to no resources to produce electricity is... "weeeell we can't build a nuclear powerplant because someone MGIHT do a terrorist attack" if you let terrorists decide your infastructure, you have basicly lost and the terrorists have won.
Well japan is one of the bigger waster of energy in the world, if you go in tokyo on night is like day. Maybe starting to save energy might be a good idea (not only for the japaneses).
I'm not saying all nuclear plants must be stopped tomorrow, but we should start to invest more in other energy sources and stop building new plants.
Since they are one of the most sysmic countries of the world doesn't seems so smart to place nuclear plants everywhere.
I really hope that this disaster will push the japanese to invest more in new energy sources, maybe with their tecnology they can speed up technological advancement in that field.

Also living in a nation like italy, with a lot of energy request and really little fossil energy sources but no power plants (we shutted all down after cernobyl) i can say human life is possible without nuclear.
Yes we burn a lot of imported fossil fuel, but we also have a lot of geotermal and Hydropower facilities, sun and wind. On night we save fuel by buying power at really low costs from France, since their nuclear reactors can't be shut down on night so they have free energy. It's not perfect but at least we don't have to worry so much about a reactor meltdown and i hope we will move much more on renewable energy when they will become more profitable.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 15, 2011, 08:50:01 pm
Depends on the wind.

Depending on the wind, a mill produce more or less 2MW, so I doubt 34MW is enough to power up 5 glass factories and 65,000 houses.


Oh also, you need space for wind farms, something japanese doesn't have.

Having a shitload of huge ass wind mills also looks ugly as hell.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: IG_Saint on March 15, 2011, 08:51:26 pm
Whoa that's enlighting,  the response you would expect from a merc indeed.

In reality, nuclear plants are the first targets in case of a serious war, togheter with dikes and nuclear silos. Also it's ovious that they are in danger of terrorism, are you really sure a nuclear plant can't get to fusion point after a 747 crashes at full speed on it?

Yes, I'm sure, first of all because fusion point makes no sense, since there is no nuclear fusion going on in a nuclear power plant. Secondly nuclear power plants are build like bunkers with an extensive amount of safety features. Take a look at that list of accidents you yourself linked, only one of those accidents had a deathtoll above 5 and again only one of those accidents released a serious amount of radiation. Nuclear power is perfectly save. It does have drawbacks in that its waste takes a long time to reach save radiation levels and that it requires fuel with a large fissile atomic nucleus.

Go read this if you're worried about terrorist attacks on nuclear power plants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_safety#Vulnerability_of_nuclear_plants_to_attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_safety#Vulnerability_of_nuclear_plants_to_attack)
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: ShadowofWoe on March 15, 2011, 08:52:36 pm
Depending on the wind, a mill produce more or less 2MW, so I doubt 34MW is enough to power up 5 glass factories and 65,000 houses.

I realize that, which is why you saying that it could power 1 glass factory would leave all the others with out power would depend on the wind, if it isn't going, it won't even do that :p.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 15, 2011, 08:59:58 pm
Yes, I'm sure, first of all because fusion point makes no sense, since there is no nuclear fusion going on in a nuclear power plant. Secondly nuclear power plants are build like bunkers with an extensive amount of safety features. Take a look at that list of accidents you yourself linked, only one of those accidents had a deathtoll above 5 and again only one of those accidents released a serious amount of radiation. Nuclear power is perfectly save. It does have drawbacks in that its waste takes a long time to reach save radiation levels and that it requires fuel with a large fissile atomic nucleus.

Go read this if you're worried about terrorist attacks on nuclear power plants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_safety#Vulnerability_of_nuclear_plants_to_attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_safety#Vulnerability_of_nuclear_plants_to_attack)
I meant fusion of the core of the nuclear plant due to heat, sorry but my english is shitty :D.
Anyway they were sure they were able to whistand heatquake without problems but we saw that is not the case. Also a nuclear plant relies to external energy source to not overheat so meh i don't think we can't be so sure.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: ShadowofWoe on March 15, 2011, 09:04:33 pm
I meant fusion of the core of the nuclear plant due to heat, sorry but my english is shitty :D.
Anyway they were sure they were able to whistand heatquake without problems but we saw that is not the case. Also a nuclear plant relies to external energy source to not overheat so meh i don't think we can't be so sure.

There have only been 9 earthquakes recorded that where as strong or stronger than the one that hit Japan.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: IG_Saint on March 15, 2011, 09:08:57 pm
I meant fusion of the core of the nuclear plant due to heat, sorry but my english is shitty :D.
Anyway they were sure they were able to whistand heatquake without problems but we saw that is not the case. Also a nuclear plant relies to external energy source to not overheat so meh i don't think we can't be so sure.

You mean fission which is completely different from fusion and has little to do with an accident. Nuclear power plants don't blow up as nuclear explosions if that's what you're thinking. Also what Goldor said, nobody can plan for every situation. Oh and most countries with nuclear power have decided to review their safety standards since the earthquake, in other words soon nuclear power plants will be even safer.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 15, 2011, 09:09:08 pm
There have only been 9 earthquakes recorded that where as strong or stronger than the one that hit Japan.
There was only one nuclear disaster as bad as chernobyl (and let's hope it stays that way the next days) but we are and we will still pay.
That doesn't happen often doesn't mean we shouldn't worry, i hope 1 nuclear disaster every 25 years is enough for you.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 15, 2011, 09:11:48 pm
You mean fission which is completely different from fusion and has little to do with an accident. Nuclear power plants don't blow in nuclear explosions if that's what you're thinking. Also what Goldor said, nobody can plan for every situation. Oh and most countries with nuclear power have decided to review their safety standards since the earthquake, in other words soon nuclear power plants will be even safer.

Nuclear power plants works with nuclear fission, fusion of the core is when the heat in the core is so high that provoke a fusion of the core, after that you don't have an atomic bomb explosion but even the containment walls might break and then there is an huge radiation pollution like at chernobyl.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: IG_Saint on March 15, 2011, 09:14:30 pm

Nuclear power plants works with nuclear fission, fusion of the core is when the heat in the core is so high that provoke a fusion of the core, after that you don't have an atomic bomb explosion but even the containment walls might break and then there is an huge radiation pollution like chernobyl.

Apart from the bolded part completely wrong.

Here, go read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster)
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 15, 2011, 09:19:43 pm
Apart from the bolded part completely wrong.

Here, go read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster)
sry again for the english, in italian we call it roughtly translated "fusion of the core" in english is nuclear meltdown. Anyway there is such risk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown#Effects
Yes cernobyl didn't really have a containment structures but even if there is you can't be totally sure it will not break.
Even if it doesn break there might be a radiation spread anyway, look now at Fukushima, evacuating 20 square km isn't a joke you know , and there are radiations as far as tokio many hundred miles away
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: burakx on March 15, 2011, 09:22:00 pm
my point is when u build something and if its dangerous you cant  leave the rest of mother nature.nuclear power is eneugh becuse  they are keeping and donating reserch for that.but maybe if they make the same financing to the green energy maybe they will find something more useful.but wind energy is free and u cant earn money from that.thats why dont  supporting it.they wanna sell oil and other stuff.they cant make fortune with green energy.couse the money is their blood.and you cant say "its will of god" when something bad happened.im 21 years old.and this world right now is not mine . like you its not yours.and you will call me dreamer or something i know.but think about it.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: IG_Saint on March 15, 2011, 09:23:53 pm
sry again for the english, in italian we call it roughtly translated "fusion of the core" in english is nuclear meltdown. Anyway there is such risk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown#Effects

There is a risk, yes, but every plant has safety features to prevent a meltdown. Chernobyl was so bad because it was an old, badly build reactor.

"Nuclear reactors can fail in a variety of ways. Should the instability of the nuclear material generate unexpected behavior, it may result in an uncontrolled power excursion. Normally, the cooling system in a reactor is designed to be able to handle the excess heat this causes; however, should the reactor also experience a loss-of-coolant accident, then the fuel may melt or cause the vessel it is contained in to overheat and melt. This event is called a nuclear meltdown.

Because the heat generated can be tremendous, immense pressure can build up in the reactor vessel, resulting in a steam explosion, which happened at Chernobyl. However, the reactor design used at Chernobyl was unique in many ways. It utilized a positive void coefficient, meaning a cooling failure caused reactor power to rapidly escalate. All reactors built outside the former Soviet Union have had negative void coefficients, a passively safe design. More importantly though, the Chernobyl plant lacked a containment structure. Western reactors have this structure, which acts to contain radiation in the event of a failure. Containment structures are, by design, some of the strongest structures built by mankind."

In other words, for the most part, nuclear power is perfectly safe.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 15, 2011, 10:27:50 pm
my point is when u build something and if its dangerous you cant  leave the rest of mother nature.nuclear power is eneugh becuse  they are keeping and donating reserch for that.but maybe if they make the same financing to the green energy maybe they will find something more useful.but wind energy is free and u cant earn money from that.thats why dont  supporting it.they wanna sell oil and other stuff.they cant make fortune with green energy.couse the money is their blood.and you cant say "its will of god" when something bad happened.im 21 years old.and this world right now is not mine . like you its not yours.and you will call me dreamer or something i know.but think about it.

What the fuck are you talking about? God wills it and shit? What the hell, when did anyone ever bring god into this argument.

Also, money is a necessary evil.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: burakx on March 15, 2011, 10:41:10 pm
What the fuck are you talking about? God wills it and shit? What the hell, when did anyone ever bring god into this argument.

Also, money is a necessary evil.

firstly look at the last post here
(click to show/hide)

and im not talking about us them money boss'.when som ething happend and plant they dont spend any money of that they says "its will of god" (u can fuck my english)
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 15, 2011, 10:46:41 pm
What the hell, why are you bringing up shit FROM AN ENTIRE DIFFERENT FUCKING THREAD.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Artyem on March 15, 2011, 11:24:02 pm
well im gonna see your clean power when people start giving a birth babys with 3 legs or 1 eye.you will never learn your lesson from history arent you ... its not mother natures fault !

I lived only 10 - 15 miles away from the Hanford Nuclear Powerplant in the eastern side of Washington State, believe me, there were 0 mutants in the city.


Also, if you seriously believe that 3 legged, or 1 eyed or other "mutations" are most commonly caused by radiation, then you must either be a very bad troll or you have an IQ below 50. All throughout History, as you put it, there have been recordings of humans born with physical oddities, even before the Nuclear Powerplant was thought of.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 16, 2011, 02:12:03 am
There is a risk, yes, but every plant has safety features to prevent a meltdown. Chernobyl was so bad because it was an old, badly build reactor.

"Nuclear reactors can fail in a variety of ways. Should the instability of the nuclear material generate unexpected behavior, it may result in an uncontrolled power excursion. Normally, the cooling system in a reactor is designed to be able to handle the excess heat this causes; however, should the reactor also experience a loss-of-coolant accident, then the fuel may melt or cause the vessel it is contained in to overheat and melt. This event is called a nuclear meltdown.

Because the heat generated can be tremendous, immense pressure can build up in the reactor vessel, resulting in a steam explosion, which happened at Chernobyl. However, the reactor design used at Chernobyl was unique in many ways. It utilized a positive void coefficient, meaning a cooling failure caused reactor power to rapidly escalate. All reactors built outside the former Soviet Union have had negative void coefficients, a passively safe design. More importantly though, the Chernobyl plant lacked a containment structure. Western reactors have this structure, which acts to contain radiation in the event of a failure. Containment structures are, by design, some of the strongest structures built by mankind."

In other words, for the most part, nuclear power is perfectly safe.
Of course nuclear power plants has the strongest security measures, that's because if a coal plant burns is really bad, but a nuclear incident can be worse then a nuclear bomb.
The fallout at cernobyl was so much worse then hiroshima and nagasaki put togheter, and while those cities got rebuilt and have no radiations now, 30 square km outisde cernobyl are still almost uninhabited. 
Also i really hope japan's incident will not get as bad as cernobyl, but if the chief of energy of the eu says that Fukushima is an apocalypse, and almost every nation in the world is discussing if dismantling/keep building nuclear plants i don't think it's so strange to doubt about long term sustaniabilty of nuclear energy.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Paul on March 16, 2011, 02:39:52 am
The "perfectly safe" thingy is bullshit. Even without earthquakes, tsunamies, plane crashes or terrorist attacks there is always a small chance of human failure in terms of planning, construction, maintainance or operation. We do need nuclear power at the moment but on the longer run we should try to get away from it. There is a risk involved with nuclear power and the waste problem can't be solved in a satisfactory manner either.

In SimCity I used to build nuclear power plants because of their advantages. I saved often and when it went boom I just loaded a save. Pretty hard to pull that off in the real world.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: IG_Saint on March 16, 2011, 02:52:43 am
The "perfectly safe" thingy is bullshit. Even without earthquakes, tsunamies, plane crashes or terrorist attacks there is always a small chance of human failure in terms of planning, construction, maintainance or operation. We do need nuclear power at the moment but on the longer run we should try to get away from it. There is a risk involved with nuclear power and the waste problem can't be solved in a satisfactory manner either.

In SimCity I used to build nuclear power plants because of their advantages. I saved often and when it went boom I just loaded a save. Pretty hard to pull that off in the real world.

Yes, you're right, perfectly safe may have been a bad choice of words. Reasonably save may be better. As in most things human error can't be prevented 100%. Still, I don't see a reason to ignore the benefits of nuclear power, especially if fusion is ever figured out.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: OoberNoob on March 16, 2011, 12:43:54 pm
Nuclear power is the "cleanest" source we have right now that can supply the amount of power we need. The plant in japan was old and was going to be replaced in the near future and it still stood up to the beating it took.  These plants are designed to withstand almost anything with failsafe after failsafe to prevent human error.  My only problem is these plants produce a waste that we have no idea how to get rid of. What we do now is just contain it until it decays away for the next 200,000 years or more, but at least we can contain it. The problem with coal and and gas is that we can only contain a portion of it and the rest escapes and becomes everyone else problem.  From an environmental engineers standpoint, I say we keep going with nuclear power until we come up with something better because right now its the best option we have.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Paul on March 16, 2011, 03:52:53 pm
Two more reasons to try to get a way from nuclear power came to my mind:

Firstly, the amount of usuable ore is getting lower. To create usuable nuclear fuel out of lesser ore will take more and more effort, reducing the CO-emission advantage.

Secondly, a civil nuclear power programm can be used to keep a hidden nuclear weapon project running. Iran and Best Korea claim their right to use nuclear power plants because all the other countries are using it as well. A (utopian, lol France) world-wide consensus to abandon fission plant technology would make it harder to obtain and maintain ninja nukes in the future.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Beauchamp on March 16, 2011, 05:43:33 pm
yes we need them until somebody will come up with something better
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Lennu on March 16, 2011, 06:08:26 pm
In the future we will hopefully discover new and better non-pollutive ways to produce energy for the whole world, but right now we don't have that technology. So lets wait? Can't do that, we need energy right away or there will be no future for humans.
Burning fossile fuels causes problems that effect the whole world, not to mention local problems like smog.
Another options are these "green power sources" we have now, which aren't effective enough. So the only option we can rely on in the future is nuclear power.

Nowadays the risks we take by using nuclear energy are minimal. Japan is known to have very loose grip on when it comes to safety in nuclear plants and still it took a massive earthquake and freaking tsunami to cause problems on a very old plant that was supposed be shut down in the near future.   
     And also, before we mine and use that uranium it is radioactive, right? I'm no physicist you know.
So practically we dig up radioactive stuff from the ground, nuke it up a bit in our powerplant, then put it into a huge container and put it back to ground?

Also, someone just took out the maybe-they-make-nuclear-weapons-in-there? -card.  That is very unlikely. IF someone would be stupid enough to actually launch a nuclear warhead, it wouldn't even hit it's target before russia/usa/france/uk/ect. would have made a couple of launches themselves. As a result..... Everyone loses!!! YAY!!   We are now talking about amounts of energy that can easily compete with that meteor that caused the extinction of dinosaurs. But as a bonus, everything is nice an' green of radioactivity. Aka nuclear winter.
      So, no more nuclear weapons, plz world, plz...   I don't really see the point in "haha, we're so strong we can kill us all!!"
Recently North-Korea threatened South-Korea with nuclear weapons, but I haven't heard anything about it since then. So I've made my conclusion that even their leaders were responsible enough to avoid a conflict like that.

Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Zypher on March 16, 2011, 06:26:58 pm
Nuclear power is the best , most efficient, cleanest and safest type of power generation. With regards to a shortage of fissile ore, there are tonnes of top scientists working on that very problem and there have been several really interesting developments in that in the last few years.

There are like one hundred nuclear power plants in the US for instance and there has never been anyone die in an accident in any of them. Not even in Three Mile Island.

Whats happening now in Japan is fucked up, But considering the damage done on the reactor buildings the containers around the cores are holding up very well.

 I think that there are alot of totally viable arguments against nuclear power but in public discussion there is considerably more non-scientific extreme-enviornmentalist fear mongering that goes on about it and because of that we have to be extra careful about what information we take on board as fact. Anyway, nuclear power is a part of the future. Long after fossil fuels become archaic and outdated , nuclear energy will still be powering our civilisation. 
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sepelio on March 16, 2011, 06:48:04 pm
Heres a good run down of what happened with the Japanese plants. Many of you should probably watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-bcrLiATLq0

To be honest I think the situation in Japan could have been far worse. The reactor designs should have been updated long ago though. 40 years is a long long time to wait for something catastrophic to happen.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Paul on March 16, 2011, 09:40:43 pm
And also, before we mine and use that uranium it is radioactive, right? I'm no physicist you know.
So practically we dig up radioactive stuff from the ground, nuke it up a bit in our powerplant, then put it into a huge container and put it back to ground?

That made me laugh and sad at the same time.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Wulzzz on March 17, 2011, 08:25:02 am
And how do you want to store the atomic waste for the next 200k years safely?
We already have to move it from one ultimate storage place to the next ultimate storage place after some decades..

We produce dangerious waste for the next hundreds of generations..that's not so ultra clean too.(besides the mining produces quite some polution too)
Imagine we still would have shit to take care about from the cavemen.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Safavid on March 17, 2011, 08:47:15 am
With the demand of energy increasing, nuclear may be the only way to produce what the world needs, unless we can harness the power of the Sun (big nuclear explosions light years away).  Cold fusion may be another route, however with the current state of affairs Nuclear energy is important.  The dangers are worth the risks? Not sure and I personally don't like anything Nuclear, but it's almost like a necessary evil. 

Also, in regards to people mentioning God, I am a Muslim and I love God, however I don't think God was punishing the Japanese at all.  It is more of a collective issue of us abusing the harmony of nature in other places or all around the world by putting pollutants into the atmosphere and environment.  Also, I have heard that some of the world's biggest powers have been working on weather manipulation devices that can create earthquakes, storms, etc. that are supposedly going to be used for creating atmospheres on other planets in case of colonization.  So, in reality it could be the fault of governments or corporations working on weather machines as well.  Which brings me to a point, why are people like Glen Beck (idiot) and others trying to say it was "God's will" that it happened?  Well, because he is a fanatic and a crazy person. 

I think we need to invest more money on Solar energy personally.   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Bjarky on March 17, 2011, 10:04:31 am
actually there's something called a fusion reactor, they are testing it in france, its an huge "eu+usa and some others" project, it will take some 10-20 years before they are finished thou, but if it succeds, we will be able to replicate the so called sun fusion process, this will give huge amounts of energy, much more than nuclear fission.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iter
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Casimir on March 17, 2011, 10:23:52 am
We need nuclear powered spaccraft. Then we can just dump the radioactive waste on the moon /space. If not there is always ireland.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Patricia on March 17, 2011, 05:32:23 pm
We need nuclear powered spaccraft. Then we can just dump the radioactive waste on the moon /space. If not there is always ireland.

And just get more shit into the earth's orbit.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sean_Drew on March 17, 2011, 05:58:53 pm
We don´t need nuclear power.

Experts say , that we can change to other energies in only a few years.

So .... let´s do it. What have we to loose ? No nuclear waste ? Green power is not more expensive as nuclear power. But we don´t have nuclear waste.

In my town , when i change to green power , i must pay less , as for nuclear power. I will change in next weeks.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: woody on March 17, 2011, 06:22:04 pm
The issue is not do we need them - unfortunately thats a no brainer.

The issue is can we build them/monitor/run them with a responsible level of diligence?

Some countries will others wont. One of the issues is that currently to build and run properly the economics are questionable. This means short cuts will be made and there will be issues because of that.

Eventually we will have little choice but to use them.

Building them in high activity seismic areas is obviously pretty risky - but some countries do not have suitable sites so it is going to happen.

Also the designs such as used at Chernobyl are outdated and dangerous, however similar reactors still run and that is wrong. However the economics force governments to act irresponsibly.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Draedan on March 17, 2011, 07:39:22 pm
I saw the word power so I just had to Click it for Moar.
But I'm actually all for green and buying local if it wasn't so damn expensive.
And no I have not read any posts besides the op.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Grey on March 17, 2011, 07:55:54 pm
Why have this discussion?

We are given the power that those in control choose. They will always choose who pays them the most. Since ALL energy on earth originally comes from the sun, the only logical solution is to rely on solar power, and the technology is there, but not the funding: Current financial interests (the financial interests of the 0.001% of the world who make the descisions) are that Oil and Nukes are making them so rich that their great great great grandchildren will STILL whipe their asses on gold toilet tissue, and untill we have a truly egalitarian society with values like the emotional, physicall and mental wellbeing of its members and the comfort and sustainability of its livestyle, untill THEN, we are gonna keep nuking the planet and digging up dead dinosaurs from millions of years ago to run our cars and planes, so we can fly or drive to our holiday destinations, get there and worry about how much carbon we just burnt getting to a place where we can do exactly the same as we could at home...
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Teeth on March 17, 2011, 08:06:25 pm
We need nuclear power plants. Sure we are creating the waste problem for a few hundreds of generations.By the time we have so much chemical waste that we have no idea were to put it this earth has already gone to hell. Our growing world population is eventually going to cause problems. In my opinion we should limit the amount of children per couple, otherwise nature or war will take care of overpopulation in a brutal fashion.

Why wine about a few more deaths caused by a couple of reactors when one war which eventually will be started when we keep relying on oil will kill hundreds of thousands or maybe more. Nuclear reactors are far more sturdy than the general population thinks, Chernobyl was crappy Eastern Bloc quality.

I think we have far greater things to worry about than chemical waste.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Adam_Bomb on March 17, 2011, 08:10:13 pm
If you guys think the Japanese power plants leaking radiation is bad, just wait till Godzilla is fighting some giant aardvark in downtown Toyko in a few days...
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: EponiCo on March 17, 2011, 09:00:58 pm
That made me laugh and sad at the same time.

He has a point, even if he says it somewhat comical.
We don't create radioactive material we just redistribute it. It's just a question if you believe the companies will store it secure enough that it doesn't get into your local water supply.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Paul on March 17, 2011, 10:03:40 pm
He does not have a point. There is a difference waste-wise if the nuclear fuel is converted over the course of millions of years widly spread within the earth through slow, natural processes or if big amounts of highly-enriched stuff is burned within a couple of years.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: EponiCo on March 18, 2011, 09:10:24 am
After they are burned they can be put into a deposit where they continue to convert in slow natural processes.
Waste-wise it's really only a problem of proper storage.
Accidents on a running plant like in Japan are something different.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: OOODIIINVALHALLAAAAAA on March 18, 2011, 09:38:10 am
Atomenergy can be replaced easy by alternative energy already.There is no true reason for atomenergy
except money.Sad but true.

Build all your  atomicplants in the Arctis....

Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Wulzzz on March 18, 2011, 09:55:56 am
Well, then where's the problem with atomic waste anyway.Why do they even bother with trying to find safe ultimate storages places and store them in huge containers.
You just dig a bit, throw it in there and everything is alright.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Brutal on March 18, 2011, 10:06:11 am
Why have this discussion?

We are given the power that those in control choose. They will always choose who pays them the most. Since ALL energy on earth originally comes from the sun, the only logical solution is to rely on solar power, and the technology is there, but not the funding: Current financial interests (the financial interests of the 0.001% of the world who make the descisions) are that Oil and Nukes are making them so rich that their great great great grandchildren will STILL whipe their asses on gold toilet tissue, and untill we have a truly egalitarian society with values like the emotional, physicall and mental wellbeing of its members and the comfort and sustainability of its livestyle, untill THEN, we are gonna keep nuking the planet and digging up dead dinosaurs from millions of years ago to run our cars and planes, so we can fly or drive to our holiday destinations, get there and worry about how much carbon we just burnt getting to a place where we can do exactly the same as we could at home...
The typical argument if we didn't turn to green energy it's because of oil money ...

I guess we're not using oil gas and nuclear because it's the most practical source of energy we have, but because some people make profit ? Yea right.

For exemple hydroelectricity is a very efficient source of (green) energy and everywhere it is possible it is developed to the maximum because it's cheap and efficient. Yet it doesn't give money to the oil industry does it ?  So why does it exist and why it is the only significant source of green energy ? (apart from biomass)

There are many country that have absolutely no interest in oil because they just don't have any and it cost them dearly to import it,  yet there is no country that produce most of it's energy with only solar panel and wind, mhh i wonder why ... 

Quote from: Sharky
Also living in a nation like italy, with a lot of energy request and really little fossil energy sources but no power plants (we shutted all down after cernobyl) i can say human life is possible without nuclear.
Dude we've been living without oil gaz and nuclear for like what 800 000 years and we lived with nuclear for 70 years oil 150years and coal 300 years. What we're living now is exceptional it's not the norm .

Yes human life is possible without modern energy, if we all live like peon and that was when earth population was 500 millions people 300 years back, now it's 7 000 millions not the same story.

For your argument that nuclear power plant consume lots of water, i say  yes they do just like a coal or gas plant. To make a turbine turn you need a cold and a hot source.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Paul on March 18, 2011, 01:47:44 pm
After they are burned they can be put into a deposit where they continue to convert in slow natural processes.
Waste-wise it's really only a problem of proper storage.
Accidents on a running plant like in Japan are something different.

That's the point. As far as I know noone has a viable, cost efficient solution for your "proper storage" yet. The approach now is to tempory put it somewhere and wait until we come up with a good way in the future. Here in Germany we had an huge scandal with an experimental permanent waste storage that failed(and was tried to kept hidden from the news) and we normally go chocolate chip cookie about security and safety. I don't even wanna now what went wrong and never surfaced to the news in less finical countries(basicly the rest of the world). 
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Grey on March 18, 2011, 02:17:24 pm
Discussion is ridiculous. We dont NEED any electric power, we dont NEED to have light or internets. WE WANT to drive fast, microwave our food, fuck our wives on Carribean islands, and then watch the holiday home video on our 38 inch Plasma TV when we get back.

This takes power. Now, if we came at the need to power FROM SCRATCH, with the technology and knowledge of today, we would choose solar energy. Its efficient, current tech( on shoestring funding, imagine with real money) can harvest 40% of the energy that falls on each panel. Thats less than half. So if we funded solar power research, that figure could skyrocket. BUT: Its not finacially viable to the old industry: THEY RUN most countries. Im not trying to convince anyone of any CONSPIRACY THEORY, or something, but oil companies DO run most of the worlds goverments right now, and they do that by MONEY.

Brazil made the sensible descision: LETS KEEP OUR CORRUPTION LOCAL! They too have the issue of the power companies using their finacial weight to alter political movement, but at least its all local, since they grow their own fuel (Fuel which is cheaper and releases MORE energy than oil).

Since we live in a disgustingly warped world where imaginary numbers we invented called "money" seems to rule everyones actions, it isnt hard to see that we will all be oil dependant untill it finally runs out (production "peaked" over 2 years ago, there is next to none left in the ground, and what's left is the bottom layers, much sediment, very expensive to process), then the next ALREADY DEVELOPED BUT LIMITED FUEL will be put on sale, because thats how it works:

In the '70s a washing machine was developed that WOULD NOT BREAK DOWN. It was ideal, the perfect washing machine.

GE and Maytag BOUGHT THE PLANS, copyrighted the process, and destroyed the working models.

 WHY? Because if you sell someone something that will never need replacing, they will only buy ONE from you, sell them something that breaks every 2 yrs, and they will buy one every 2 years from you.

SAME WITH POWER COMPANIES: They are not interested in clean fuels, endless energy, or safety! MONEY, they want your MONEY, and if you will pay them for oil they will SELL you oil, it costs them less than a penny a barrel to process, and they MAKE over 100% of that back. They are making money hand over foot. Nuclear power is almost forever, AND someone is asking them to TAKE CARE?? NO, nuclear reactors are made the same way as any other power plant: As cheaply as possible to do the job. If it never breaks, you never get payed to fix it. Thats not good buisiness.

Hate to bring the real world in here with me, but wake up people, its not about what we ant, or whats best for us, its about what makes the most money for the guy at the top. Simple.  Now grow up, we need nuke power like we need cancer. The clean, green energy solutions already excist, as does the process to make fuel from hemp, 100% clean burning, produced from the ground, but we will NOT be allowed to use it untill the companies that OWN the copyrights LET us.

And guess who those companies are? YES, the same ones who sell us oil, build our nuke plants, and tell us to turn our heating up....
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Felagunda on March 18, 2011, 07:52:20 pm
If only the gov would issue more permits to build Gas powered plants.  We have so much natural gas in the country (USA) it's retarded.  That is why the price is so low.  Every time we find a huge new reserve the price just goes lower too.  It burns cleaner that most anything with no waste and such.  It doesn't destroy mountain tops or poison streams and rivers like coal mining.

Even though I voted we I'm no hippie but we don't need Nuke power that is really a lie.  We do need it for the reason that right now in USA it makes 20% of our electricity. My father works for AEP and he talk about how stupid the gov is all the time.   My father is always telling me how in the summer time when the demand for power is up USA get very close to having multiple black outs due to lack of power.  It's all those AC running and believe me I live in LA it gets 105 here with 60-90% humidity being the norm it gets dangerously hot and we need our AC and fans.  The point is without that extra 20% power we get from nuke plants we'd have whole areas of the states in the summer without power.

The problem is that our government won't even issue the permits to build plants, coal (which is really shitty source imo), gas, or even more nuke.    Solar, Wind, Hydro, Waves, and geothermal or great sources if you wanna make yourself feel good on the inside about being green.  Really the only one of those that generates power on a large scale is the hydro when you dam up some large river like the Colorado.  Which is nice and clean and all but changes our planet in other ways that I really don't like.  Well Geothermal does too but of course you gotta build shit on a active hot spot so it's really limited  locations.

Anyway we really need to be investing in technology. I believe that  fuel cells are the future.   If only we could come up with a good bio fuel cell we'd be set for life.  Also in the next few years some company is coming out with new Solar that uses nano Technology to get power not only from the Solar rays to generate electricity but also from the heat.  The solar ray part was supposed to be about 250% of the best panels we have today but the real kicker to this tech was that they were getting electricity from heat alone meaning making power at night time!  They claimed the test showed that it was generating small amount of power from temps of 60 degrees F which imo is not hot.  Hell on a hot summer sunny and cloudless day my roof gets 125-135 now that is hot.  This company would make a great investment once it goes public but that might be another 3-5 years at the least.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Felagunda on March 18, 2011, 08:04:08 pm
Brazil made the sensible descision: LETS KEEP OUR CORRUPTION LOCAL! They too have the issue of the power companies using their finacial weight to alter political movement, but at least its all local, since they grow their own fuel (Fuel which is cheaper and releases MORE energy than oil).GE and Maytag BOUGHT THE PLANS, copyrighted the process, and destroyed the working models.And guess who those companies are? YES, the same ones who sell us oil, build our nuke plants, and tell us to turn our heating up....

You do realize that only 2% of USA power is produced by burning a petroleum product right?  Why you burn oil or gas made by oil when it's price is so unstable and high.  LoL reading that makes me wanna not read anything else you have said.

Also 40% from solar is a lie and laughable.  Right now the best ones in large use 28%.  Maybe you are talking about some technology that isn't actually being use but is developed and waiting to be built?

Also when we started useing ehtnalo from corn to add in our gas global prices on corn and all products made by it went about 80% in just the first year.  It's stablized now and fallen a bit but any time you use food to make engery it gonna effect prices around the world.  You must keep in mind that America Agri industy pretty much feeds the world we export so much food.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Sharky on March 18, 2011, 08:20:12 pm
Actually we already found the best solution for nuclear wastes. We send them in france, when they make this uranium/plutonium mix that can power the nuclear plants again.
Too bad plutonium is the worst polluting stuff on hearth, in fact it doesn't exist in nature, has a decayng rate of thousands years and one microgram (1/1000000 of a gram) kills an human. A nuclear plant needs several kilograms of it.
Worst fear at fukushima in fact is the reactor 3 that goes on plutonium, if plutonium spread outside the plant, the sorrounding area will be heavily contamined for thousands of years.
And since uranium is becoming more and more expensive, more reactors will go with plutonium in the next years, they are the best way to recycle nuclear wastes...

Are you guys really sure we want to live with that risk?
It Is really necessary to consume all this energy and produce more and more of this useless junk that will become garbage in some years becouse of obsolescence/planned breackouts?
I'd say yes, it's necessary with this economy, and surely we will not find cheap alternatives to oil and nuclear (that grants huge profits to few peoples) but i think we should start to think about something better then that.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: EponiCo on March 18, 2011, 08:56:36 pm
That's the point. As far as I know noone has a viable, cost efficient solution for your "proper storage" yet. The approach now is to tempory put it somewhere and wait until we come up with a good way in the future. Here in Germany we had an huge scandal with an experimental permanent waste storage that failed(and was tried to kept hidden from the news) and we normally go chocolate chip cookie about security and safety. I don't even wanna now what went wrong and never surfaced to the news in less finical countries(basicly the rest of the world).

Yeah, you are right but that's mostly a manmade problem imo. Those sites were used even if the risk were well known afaik. Like the genius move to build a nuclear power plant on earthquake island. About cost effective, well, considering how cheap power is and how much we waste, that's the real problem.
Now if power was more expensive we could probably go all solar (which I'd have no problem with) but the fossil power sources (and some renewables I'm sure) are just putting it on the long bank as well with emissions. What's worse I can't say, but atm we only have a choice between two evils.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Banok on March 19, 2011, 02:53:13 am
Yes, they're a "clean" source of energy, produce almost no pollution.


this. 90% of people assume nuclear power is BAD, and have no clue about it.

for instance "green is the answer"

nuclear power is GREEN, perfect example of general ignorance.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: cmp on March 19, 2011, 03:14:02 am
nuclear power is GREEN, perfect example of general ignorance.

Glowing green.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Pdogg5954 on March 19, 2011, 03:22:14 am
Do we need them?

Yes, especially if new alternatives are not found soon.  Hydro and wind power will probably never be able to be practical as a primary source of energy.  Nuclear, gerothermal, and solar seem to be the way forward.

With the installation of the first fusion plant in France maybe our problems will be solved sooner than we think.

Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Felagunda on March 19, 2011, 07:17:39 am
With the installation of the first fusion plant in France maybe our problems will be solved sooner than we think.

Sounds awesome can you give me a link about this I'd love to read I thought fusion was never going to happen.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Grey on March 19, 2011, 08:24:48 am
You must keep in mind that America Agri industy pretty much feeds the world we export so much food.

Not true. American produce does not pass EU standards, we dont buy it, sorry. There is insufficient GM legislation is US, and the price of shipping south american produce and then decontam it to remove chemical residue, the price is ridiculous. So not pretty much the world.

I know for sure Africa isnt importing anything from anyone but the chinese, so not much world is fed by american agri industry. Hell, I never said the US burns oil for power on a huge scale, it doesnt, it imports more electricity than it produces from oil. But, they could easily go self sufficient on ethanol, but the US goverment subsidises the farmers NOT to grow any. Huge quantities of US produce are bought up BY the goverment and goes nowhere.....

But thats besides the point, my point being:

WE DONT need nuke power, but we dont have a choice, the descition to use it has been made FOR us, by some old fat rich white men in an office.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Noctivagant on March 19, 2011, 01:26:10 pm
Maybe the generation who know nothing of the Cold War are growing up with a different perspective on radiation?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12785274
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Felagunda on March 20, 2011, 06:26:07 am
WE DONT need nuke power, but we dont have a choice, the descition to use it has been made FOR us, by some old fat rich white men in an office.

AT least is something we can agree one
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: cmp on March 20, 2011, 06:27:17 am
Maybe the generation who know nothing of the Cold War are growing up with a different perspective on radiation?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12785274

Next step:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rci3ElYLs4U
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Gorath on March 20, 2011, 07:27:49 am
Voluntary Matrix-style bio-energy.  Would solve overpopulation issue by confining many people to very small amounts of space so there's more space for the non-matrix people.  Would solve the food shortage issue the world will be facing in the near near future (seriously, do the research.  We are billions of people over the occupacy limit of the planet's capability to sustain us perpetually and we're only breeding faster) because of liquifying the dead and feeding it IV style to the matrix pod-people.  Would solve the lack of employment issue the planet faces.

And it would solve the boredom issue most of us face in the world by allowing us to exist in virtual realities where we can do whatever the fuck we want.

It's win/win/win.  I'd not only sign up, but bring my own drill with a shaved head ready for implanting.
Title: Re: Nuclear Power Plants ... do we need them ?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on March 20, 2011, 12:47:39 pm
(click to show/hide)

So i can actualy live in Cprg? Awesome sign me up