cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Kung Fu Jesus on March 10, 2011, 08:29:58 pm
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So I've been playing a while now, mostly as a 2-hander. And I still suck at blocking. I just don't get how some people can block 99% of the shit that comes at them. I'm not talking about those who can block pretty good. I'm talking about those that block everything, like Harmless Peasant and these BkS(?) dudes.
Do most folks use block with mouse movement or movement keys? I've always used mouse movement but just flicking my mouse doesn't work too well in a fight. Lots of left blocks turn into overhead blocks instead. Now I'm trying blocking with movement keys but I'm so used to mouse, its hard to get used to. But it does seem to be a little bit better if I can just remember I'm not using my mouse.
Any tips besides hang out in the duel server?
For the record, I don't think straight ping is the issue. A difference of 30 milliseconds is not going to make me a superstar.
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1. Play single player training grounds until you can block everything that an elite infantry tries to hit you with in 1v1.
2. Go practice to duel server, try to fight opponents at similar or slightly higher skill level. Fighting superheroes does not teach you anything until you can somewhat understand what they are doing.
3. Repeat 2 until satisfied.
4. Fight superheroes.
5. Become superhero.
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I would like to know what generally people use for blocking, mouse or keyboard.
ive always used mouse and i get allot of wrong blocks, ill try using the keyboard mabe thats the key
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I would like to know what generally people use for blocking, mouse or keyboard.
ive always used mouse and i get allot of wrong blocks, ill try using the keyboard mabe thats the key
im pretty sure most skilled pl use mouse
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lowering mouse sensitivity worked for me to make blocks go where they are suposed to
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Im newish to the game and still learning to block, A great bit of advice a clan member gave me, Go to the Nditions Duel Server, find the naked two hander trainer, you find lurking in a cornor somewhere.
Press F to duel him, Dont attack! Just stand still block everything he throws out you. do this for 30mins everytime you play. Dont bother dueling any human player on Nditions to you can block the trainer for 5 mins.
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One tip i would give is to make a char without super high speed or range this will force you to block more rather than rely on spam.
try a high str char with lighter armor so you don't rely on your armor to save you.
30str
12agi
10ps
ath3
4wm
you will gain lots of gold
you should gets lots of kills
you will be forced to manuel block
stay out of the thickest fighting, once the fighting gets to be less of a spam/mobfest start moving around killing/blocking
-when you are a peasant don't just cower back behind the team; run at a high level guy who is flanking your team.
then block block block until teammates come to help or you die.
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Im newish to the game and still learning to block, A great bit of advice a clan member gave me, Go to the Nditions Duel Server, find the naked two hander trainer, you find lurking in a cornor somewhere.
Press F to duel him, Dont attack! Just stand still block everything he throws out you. do this for 30mins everytime you play. Dont bother dueling any human player on Nditions to you can block the trainer for 5 mins.
Well, I disagree. The training bot is all fine and dandy, but playing against the players is way better in the end and gives you motivation. Most of the people there aren't that good anyways, so just keep dueling people until you find some guys who you can have fairly equal duels with.
Also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcjnbIF1yAA
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1. Play single player training grounds until you can block everything that an elite infantry tries to hit you with in 1v1.
2. Go practice to duel server, try to fight opponents at similar or slightly higher skill level. Fighting superheroes does not teach you anything until you can somewhat understand what they are doing.
3. Repeat 2 until satisfied.
4. Fight superheroes.
5. Become superhero.
good guide!
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go duel server in native.
ther you char have the same abilities than you enemy char
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What's people's opinion on weapons that are unbalanced? Anyone feel that makes any significant difference because I tend to use them for their shield-breaking effect. Although I have been killed by a peasant Native_ATS using a torch and blocking everything I threw at him. That was embarrassing.
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stomach getting your ass wooped in the duel server for 2 hours will give you some understanding of it.
Another way is go to native and choose ffa deathmatch and use the same method on people who havent broken the speed of light
and another thing, even I can spam blocks. Its not that hard if there is only one opponent with a weapon without rediculous speed / huscarl shield hiding their every movement.
so dont feel bad.
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Skip the part about fighting with bots. Go straight to the duel server. Fighting bots is pretty useless in this game compared to rl humans.
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I'd say I'm a pretty good manual blocker, I got better at manual blocking by playing in duel for extended periods of times so you can concentrate on blocking instead of dodging the hailstorm coming your way.
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Well, I disagree. The training bot is all fine and dandy, but playing against the players is way better in the end and gives you motivation. Most of the people there aren't that good anyways, so just keep dueling people until you find some guys who you can have fairly equal duels with.
agreed.
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Go to Nditions or Swadian duel server and try to play more defensive (block each attack). It's where I learned how to block.
Either way it just takes time.
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Personally I'd go for siege. That way you get loads of lives, you still get gold/exp and you don't lose out on what it's like playing with a team. Worked for me very well. Always nice when some pole/2h breaks your shield and finds you can manual block too :P
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I think that siege and battle are so different they seems to me 2 different games. Knowing to have a lot of lives make you fight differently and with less technic. The secret of "supreme art of parrying" is: calm, concentration and soft fingers. Try to pay attention on the strenght you put on that mouse buttons, the less it is, the better you parry.
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Bots are good for learning mouse control, if your mouse control need polish, once your happy with your control then fight players, if your at the standerd where your control and reflex's are fine then dont bother with bots.
The two hander trainer on Nditions is great for that.
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My advice to you is to first try manual blocking on bots first. This will give you the basics of manual blocking. Next try with real players who don't know how to feint (basically fake-attacks); this will help you get into a more comfortable zone when fighting under pressure. Lastly, try fighting with players who CAN feint, usually in duel servers, and you should be set.
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Another good thing for blocking is to keep your mouse straight. If it's slanted then you'll often start doing some up/down or side blocks that you don't need.
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Another good thing for blocking is to keep your mouse straight. If it's slanted then you'll often start doing some up/down or side blocks that you don't need.
Tell me about it. I've got a super-sensitive mouse which I bought for TF2 comp. play back in the day, and now even the slightest angle changes my blocks. :o
Gotta try moving it as gently as possible!
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I'd consider myself a pretty damn good manual blocker and player in general. I've played since Warband was in beta, and there was a stage where I didn't know how to block at all. To be completely honest with you, I think trying to learn to fight without blocking is very important, only because you can learn a lot from it. It taught me to take full advantage of the range and speed of a weapon as well as using proper footwork to fully utilize, well, the range and speed of a weapon as well as punish others for their weapon choice. Obviously since this is cRPG (I learn on Native and I honestly don't really even play cRPG much), and there are so many different variations of builds and weapons, those kinds of things are less important and more difficult to learn playing cRPG, but they will really help you a lot in the end.
Eventually, I gradually learned the importance of manual blocking and I started to be able to parry blows when I made a mistake, or the other guy was a good blocker. The only real way to learn to become good at it is practice. Start by just focusing on left and right slashes, then when you master defending against those two directions, throw in chop and stab. I'd also recommend trying to train yourself to make less intensive mouse movements when you are blocking AND attacking; that's what took me the longest to get over and what helped me the most. I can't tell you how many times I blocked a hit, but then turned too much and thus couldn't block the next hit.
After you learn to block, start focusing on the mind games. The only way to beat a truly solid player is to do something out of the ordinary in order to beat him. Feinting only works to some extent and only on less experienced players. Learn to do things like hit in one direction multiple times, then feint a stab, but chop (chop seems the be the attack that most lesser players just can't block, as a side note), that's a really basic example. Do things that you know would trip you up. The most risky, yet effective way to kill a good player or a good block is with good footwork and shit. That's where the footwork and shit that I was describing in the first paragraph comes in. If you know the speed and range of your weapon, you can beat a solid blocker by using the speed and range of your weapon to your advantage.
I hope that helped a bit. Just realize that this is a game where you really need to practice to get good. It may seem really simple at first, but there is a ton more depth then you could ever realize at first if you actually want to become good at the game.
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It happened the same to me, now I can block... not decently but not poorly, still a lot of room for improvement.
I'll suggest this:
-First try on native the tutorial, and fight the novice guy but don't try to kill him, only block him. Do this at first with both of you standing still. This way you'll learn to move the mouse correctly and to know which movements he makes with the sword (my advice: follow his hand, not his sword). When you can block all his blocks or almost (9/10), do the same but moving your character around. It would be more difficult because you will move the mouse because of the camera view. Try blocking until you get better.
-Then go to the nditions duel server (native) and try the naked guy mentioned. It's very good cause you don't die if you lose, you regain all health and can block again. He swings faster than the guy in the tutorial and if you attack he blocks / moves decently.
-Then and only then, I would advise to try some duels. Otherwise more or less skilled people would kill you in one shot or two, and you learn nothing.
Cheers :wink:
PD: I still don't block well in a fight, specially the overhead swing. That's my weakness :| .
PD2: What trippin said is interesting, I lowered the sensitiveness of my mouse to play warband.
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I've been playing for a while now, but I still struggle with blocking. Practising against the AI in the single player training grounds and against people in the duel server are good suggestions.
I'd like to add two minor details I've found important.
1. Make sure the third person camera is zoomed as far out as possible (minus key on num pad I think). I realised only recently that you can change this! The levels of zoom are quite small, but at the furthest away setting it prevents the camera from falling behind you and obscuring the combatant in front.
2. Try to keep the camera quite high, not directly behind your characters shoulders. Otherwise when your opponent feints a chop and you go to block, you will drag the camera down and your opponent will be obscured by your shoulders and head! My God, the number of times this has killed me! The penalty is that some of you blows might go a little low, but I think it's worth it to have better awareness of what your opponent is doing. Watch the good players on youtube videos: they always seem to have the camera quite high.
And as someone else said, learn to fight with small mouse movements. Again, you want to keep your opponent in view; large movements will throw the camera around and make spotting incoming blows difficult.
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I had my mouse set to 5800 dpi and sucked hardcore at blocking. I would always end up blocking down by accident. Turned my dpi down to 800 and now its soo much easier. may just be placebo, but it seems to help a lot.
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consider a master apprentice relationship with someone willing to train you in the details and concepts to the combat mechanics and physics of the game.
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well, the bot cloking only works if you suck.
I used to try fighting some bots when i had only played a few days, and the first week, it really helped me getting the mouse movement right.
But when you reach that point, bots are useless.
There are no specific techniques on how to get good at blocking, cause there are only 3 ways to get better:
Practice
Practice
Practice
atleast that's what i think
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I think I am hopeless. I went on the native bot server. My ping there sucks though. Anyway, I can't even block the novice bot more than 2-3 times. I activate block as soon as I see the direction of the attack. Doesn't matter. I am still maybe half a second too slow. Maybe I'm just too old for this shit.
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No - its just a thing of practice...
try to get a feeling for your blocks, and choose a weapon that is good for blocking. i prefer 1 handed swords like simple sword. polearms are a bit different in the moves needed with the mouse i think..
if ure willing to learn, just say so and we can meet at the crpg duell server with low ping.
i am damn tired, playin a horsearcher and so u wont find a more messed build in the whole game if it comes to melee ;)
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What's your ping, first of?
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Jedi Master: A Jedi Knight may become a Jedi Master after successfully training a Padawan learner to Knight status. Though this is the most common manner, there are other ways of attaining the rank. Also, "Master Jedi" is the common honorific.
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What's your ping, first of?
On the regular servers, between 80-100. On the native duel server, its around 150-170.
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150-170 is too high to do the whole blocking thing normally.
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consider a master apprentice relationship with someone willing to train you in the details and concepts to the combat mechanics and physics of the game.
Read whole way through this thread, and this is first answer I completely agree with.
Also, go Native and play public, preferably TDM or DM as you will get more live fighting time for you playtime, and play as an archer. Take a 1h as your sidearm. Every time you get closed on by enemy, go to that 1h. If you can be bothered, dont even bring a bow but keep with archer class, or crossbowman. Once you can reliably beat anyone you come across with a crabby 1h weapon as an archer, you should have nice manual blocking skills.
And one point if not seen mentioned here:
Attacking: They key to making manual blocking possible against one, two, three and on occasions 4 and 5 enemies is taking a break from concentrating on it, and counterattacking. Blocking nonstop vs real enemies who are giving you no space IS impossible if you lock yourself in a defensive stance vs more than a single enemy, they will just attack simultanioulsy from 2 directions.
Only through Counterattacking do you buy yourself the time and space to allow drastic repositioning, room for keeping your enemies herded, and maybe the option to press your attack and lower the odds against you. Lock yourself in a defensive stance in the game mentally and irl physically with your hand movements, and its just a question of how long can you survive untill someone smashes your "steel cage" of blocks. This said, sometimes a few seconds of total insane steel cage blocking vs 3 enemies does wow them into backing off for a second, giving you room again for the ultimate defensive move, the overhead smash against the unprepared enemy XD.
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..and play as an archer. Take a 1h as your sidearm. Every time you get closed on by enemy, go to that 1h. If you can be bothered, dont even bring a bow but keep with archer class, or crossbowman. Once you can reliably beat anyone you come across with a crabby 1h weapon as an archer, you should have nice manual blocking skills.
Bad idea. That's something to do after getting past the initial steep part of the learning curve to hone your skills. Making the first steps even harder by playing a melee-gimped character is just stupid.
Try to find someone to tutor you on the duel server. I am always happy to conduct basic blocking training with anyone who asks and I would guess that there are many like me.
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Bad idea. That's something to do after getting past the initial steep part of the learning curve to hone your skills. Making the first steps even harder by playing a melee-gimped character is just stupid.
The OP said he HAD mastered blocking but wanted to get it to the "steel cage" state where some people hold off multiples. I learnt to manblock on native that way and was just helping, so you dont gotta stamp my idead as stooopid Vargas.....
Getting someone to help you practise on duel is ok, as long as they way they help us is: Bring a wooden stick, you bring your best armour, and you fight them nonstop, since they can barely hurt you with the stick you can get bashed loads, but, I think the OP is beyond this, I think the OP CAN block just fine, but wants to be Jedi, like, say......ME :lol:
PS: Joking....im a ninja, Jedi's dont exist *scoffs*
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On the regular servers, between 80-100. On the native duel server, its around 150-170.
Tbh that is too high to become a magnetic blocker imo. When i started to play Native MP, i trained manual blocking in SP.
Load your recent savegame (it's easier with a higher char) and go into the arena to fight with zero ping.
Get the nearest enemy with a 2h sword if you don't start with it and kill everybody. (It's great to do stab headons too because the bots always have the perfect range)
If you master that you can see the difference to fight with a ping of 100 and hopefully can cope with it a little bit more.
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Another tip, don't just block. If you duel someone, counterattack after blocking. Blocking on its own is useless, you have to combine it with good timing to counterattack succesfully.
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I have a question about counterattacks. When I block something I usually try to swing my 2h, because of my noobinesh usually its a predictable right side slash and my opponent blocks it. But sometimes, after blocking I attack as fast as I can and my opponent just attacks faster than I , so I'm the one who gets hit.
Why is that? Should I press the attack button while holding block and then release both at the same time? It bugs me a lot when that kind of thing happens.
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Footwork, most likely. He has positioned himself so that he can get another attack off.
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I have a question about counterattacks. When I block something I usually try to swing my 2h, because of my noobinesh usually its a predictable right side slash and my opponent blocks it. But sometimes, after blocking I attack as fast as I can and my opponent just attacks faster than I , so I'm the one who gets hit.
Why is that? Should I press the attack button while holding block and then release both at the same time? It bugs me a lot when that kind of thing happens.
You can always counter attack after you parry (unless your weapon is a greathammer and you have 3 agility). If his range is longer than yours, he can of course get a hit off on you if he uses proper positioning and footwork. Read my earlier post, it's why I suggested you learn footwork before you learn to block.
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RMB blocking is unnecessary and useless in most situations, chamber blocking and going on the offense is more important. The RMB is only for when you get chamber-blocked yourself, which you should prevent.
EDIT: Unless of course you want to become good at blocking just to show off, then everyone above has got it about covered.
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RMB blocking is unnecessary and useless in most situations, chamber blocking and going on the offense is more important. The RMB is only for when you get chamber-blocked yourself, which you should prevent.
EDIT: Unless of course you want to become good at blocking just to show off, then everyone above has got it about covered.
Are you US? I get the feeling there's much more chambering on the US servers than EU. I only know a handfull of people on EU that can chamber decently and even then they don't use it that much in battle.
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To earlier question re why cant you counter - I got told by native clan that its because vs held attack/hvy weapon you need to block twice - theres a kind of stun effect after first block. If you try to counter immediately you just get hit again. I seem to find it works as long as I remember and dont arse the blocks up.
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To earlier question re why cant you counter - I got told by native clan that its because vs held attack/hvy weapon you need to block twice - theres a kind of stun effect after first block. If you try to counter immediately you just get hit again. I seem to find it works as long as I remember and dont arse the blocks up.
Attacks from a weapon with a higher weight can cause block stun, though it's not 100% and I find it only noticeable on 2hander/polearm against 1handers
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Use... The force... :twisted:
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I dunno.. even with all this advice check your ping.
I'm gimped and useless above 70-80. It becomes very hard to block and return a swing. It's a world of difference down to 45 where I can duel almost perfectly. I don't even know how smooth someon with 20 or less play lol.
Ping is extremely important for a fast 2 hander.
The solution is either:
Cav
Archer
Shielder
Polearm/2h mad spamming and strength build.
So if you can't get under 100 ping anywhere, I'd suggest you change class and forget about dueling.
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I dunno.. even with all this advice check your ping.
I'm gimped and useless above 70-80. It becomes very hard to block and return a swing. It's a world of difference down to 45 where I can duel almost perfectly. I don't even know how smooth someon with 20 or less play lol.
Ping is extremely important for a fast 2 hander.
The solution is either:
Cav
Archer
Shielder
Polearm/2h mad spamming and strength build.
So if you can't get under 100 ping anywhere, I'd suggest you change class and forget about dueling.
No offense, but it's not the ping. It's you.
I play cRPG at a 120 ping average and I still manage to perform far above the average player. Given that on a Native server, where I have ~40 ping, I do much better, it's still not that difficult to block or counter attack. It's just much harder and the game is much different.
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Are you US? I get the feeling there's much more chambering on the US servers than EU. I only know a handfull of people on EU that can chamber decently and even then they don't use it that much in battle.
He's probably from the Wonderland. Chambering is usually too risky for the reward. Especially for most people who can't pull back from a chamber that isn't gonna work and turn it into a block.
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Tbh these days my ping on EU cRPG servers has been around 100 (from 95 min to 110 max) and I can block just fine. I can't chamber though, no matter how skilled I am at it.
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At 80+ ping you can block normal attacks from normal people. GL against anyone faster or simply good, though.
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I played M&B SP since the first beta and it's very easy to block with movement direction BUT , bot won't bother looking which way you,re going to attack , they'll just randomly attack you one side and then attack you randomly with an other attack...
In cRPG , if you,re facing a good opponent and he sees you strafing, he'll know you're using movement direction and will just attack the opposite way you're trying in vain to block.
I had to switch to Mouse Movement (and I still suck , still haven't got used to it) and the best way to practice at first (just to get used to the whole thing) is bots. But after 5-10 minutes you should switch right away to Duel Servers and pick someone who is "okay". Drop everything and just use a sword/polearm and block everything he throws at you. It's gonna be good practice for him to work on his feinting / tactics and for you it's a good way to practice your blocking.
When he's not much of a challenge for your new blocking skills, pick on a better guy. One day you'll face Dan, Cyranule or Mori on a public server and that, my friend, is the real challenge :P
But the most important thing .. don't give up. Practice , Practice , Practice.
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Of course you can play with high ping, its just very very different.
But if you go on a duel server with high ping, you are definitely set with a big disadvantage.. Aggressive play is rewarded as the opponent also sees weirdly fast strikes. In battle the rules are different again, as many more factors are involved and people are not so aware, and generally of lower skill than in duel servers. Player toosexy comes to mind, he used to play with 350+ ping, swinging a huge halberd in max armor. He teamkilled a lot, but usually ended up on top of the scoreboard. Trying to get in range to kill him was a chance game, as his hits would usually pass through all blocks..
The classic scenario is a high ping shielder with a fast sword coming at you with sword raised, as to common practice I charge towards him in order to hit him before he can react, only to get struck down very suddenly. He obviously releases the sword still thinking im standing still, and the netcode does the rest..
High Ping is not all bad, it has its advantages, but the rules change, and overall It's a handicap.
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The key to learning to fight, in my opinion, is to find someone better than you and learn from them. Whether it is intentional or unintentional teaching. I owe a great amount of my (and I admit it is limited) ability to fight in melee to dueling significantly superior foes on the duel server. My duel kill death ratio is probably over the life of my playing somewhere around 1 to 10. However, the increase in my skill is definitely present. I learned the vast majority of my 2-h skill from fighting Ujin and Shagrath on EU_3 way back in the day. I still need to learn how to kill shielders reliably, and I work on that by fighting very good people on the duel servers. Fighting bad people simply teaches you laziness and poor habits, fighting the excellent can be applied to both good and bad opponents in battle.
Oh, and duel in peasant armor with a weapon that won't 1-hit your opponent. Armor and one-hitting are great for battle, but they won't help you learn. Learn to not make mistakes by not wearing armor and learn consistency by taking a while to win.
High ping is a huge disadvantage to dueling. If you suffer from high ping, I would find someone who is skilled at dueling despite it and learn specifically from them, like Apsalar. It is possible, but a whole different ball game.
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I still need to learn how to kill shielders reliably, and I work on that by fighting very good people on the duel servers.
The way i see it, there are four methods of killing a shielder:
1) Use a very fast weapon and 'outspam' him. With that i mean: swing -> get blocked -> swing again (turn a bit into the swing to make it connect a bit earlier) and hope he also swings but is too slow.
2) Feint. Start a swing, cancel it (by pressing rightmouse) and quickly swing again. Hope the player isn't listening to block sounds or not paying attention. If a single feint fails, sometimes a double feint does the trick. However, keep in mind that feinting is very risky. You expose yourself to spam-style counterattacks.
3) Try to outmaneuver him and hit him from the side or back. This only works with high athletics, light or medium armor and even then it should be pretty easy for the shielder to keep facing you. Again, this relies on a mistake by your opponent.
4) Or, if the above tricks fail: Use a shield destroying weapon like an axe. Two handed swords also seem to destroy shields pretty damn fast. :|
Those throwing axes are also really bad for us shielders.
Als most of you know, 1) is my preferred method. :twisted:
Another tip: In battle, i often ignore 'alert' shielders, switch targets and get back to that shielder when he's engaged with someone else. If all else fails, i keep smacking (spamming) that shield with my sword. Eventually, it will break. :? (with the (heirloomed) steel shield being the exception)
I know i'm stating the obvious for you Braeden, but i felt like writing down some tips. I hope it helps someone. :)
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Oh, and duel in peasant armor with a weapon that won't 1-hit your opponent. Armor and one-hitting are great for battle, but they won't help you learn. Learn to not make mistakes by not wearing armor and learn consistency by taking a while to win.
I'd say that depends. If you don't have a real main or plan on changing your build greatly, sure. But if you have a clear main and a heirloomed weapon and stuff, I'd suggest dueling in your battle-gear. Why? Because that's the gear you're gonna be using, so might as well practice with it instead of getting used to moving faster and attacking with a different weapon.