cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Slev23 on March 26, 2012, 11:26:20 pm

Title: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Slev23 on March 26, 2012, 11:26:20 pm: Archery is no longer OP, which proxy buffed cav. Cavarly are worthless except to troll every single person in the game. Lancers are just annoying and HA/HX do nothing but delay games.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Teeth on March 26, 2012, 11:33:02 pm: Aim for the legs.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on March 26, 2012, 11:45:10 pm: We have one, its called NA_2. Until horses can climb stairs or ladders i dont think youll find to many there.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Rumblood on March 26, 2012, 11:51:22 pm: Haha, man I wish I could recall his name (damn Alzheimers), but we had someone couching people on the walkways on one of the castles on defense when he would spawn up top. It was hilarious :lol:
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Rainbow on March 26, 2012, 11:54:19 pm: Nobody above level 25 server!
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Chris_P_Bacon on March 26, 2012, 11:56:21 pm: There should be a no infantry server.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Teeth on March 26, 2012, 11:57:24 pm: I remember plated chargers doing laps on the castle walls and topping the scoreboard. That is a long time ago though.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Christo on March 27, 2012, 12:10:44 am: Quote from: SgtTeeh on March 26, 2012, 11:57:24 pm
I remember plated chargers doing laps on the castle walls and topping the scoreboard. That is a long time ago though.

TheFinn :)

It's kinda unbelivable that almost 2 years have passed, well the Finn's adventures happened more than a year ago, but still.
And it still.. still can keep some interest. :) Guess the mod is too addictive or I'm just stuck to it because of the past.

On nocav servers, if you're EU, try a melee server. Have fun.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Adamar on March 27, 2012, 12:15:10 am: Make a high damaging build like me, my longbowman eats horses for breakfast, they do go down if you do it right. Only armored horses prove troublesome, but thats justified.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: BADPLAYERold on March 27, 2012, 12:15:26 am: Siege cav is OP
(click to show/hide)
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(yes i know it's against a bunch of pubs you don't have to point that out thx)
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Earthdforce on March 27, 2012, 01:42:34 am: The melee only servers disallow cavalry...
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Casimir on March 27, 2012, 01:48:35 am: Quote from: Slev23 on March 26, 2012, 11:26:20 pm
Archery is no longer OP, which proxy buffed cav. Cavarly are worthless except to troll every single person in the game. Lancers are just annoying and HA/HX do nothing but delay games.

What about 2h cav?
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: rustyspoon on March 27, 2012, 03:19:34 am: How about instead of a no cav server, we make a server where people turn around every once in a while so they don't get couched?
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Slev23 on March 27, 2012, 03:25:47 am: If people were on the melee only server it would be fine, but if you make a server allowing everything *except* cav, it might attract more players. And rusty, I rarely get back couched, my main qualm with cav is they just bump in to melee and then circle through repeatedly until you're slashed to death on the ground.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Guzzy on March 27, 2012, 07:11:13 am: Then learn how to deal with cav. I find it challenging fighting with people how to fight cavarly
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on March 27, 2012, 09:39:14 am: what we need is only cav server
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Teeth on March 27, 2012, 02:22:55 pm: And what would happen if you get dehorsed?
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 27, 2012, 02:24:05 pm: Quote from: SgtTeeh on March 27, 2012, 02:22:55 pm
And what would happen if you get dehorsed?

Banpoll :D
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Radament on March 27, 2012, 03:06:11 pm: need an instagib ctf server only !!
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: KillerofFlowers on March 27, 2012, 03:26:24 pm: Quote from: Earthdforce on March 27, 2012, 01:42:34 am
The melee only servers disallow cavalry...
Beat me to mentioning it... Except you forgot to mention that it's called NA_LL_Melee_Only
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Turboflex on March 27, 2012, 09:33:22 pm: cav is OP as fuck, and annoying too.

make it so when they bump, the horse takes damage too, and when they get de-horsed they take 40 or so hp damage in the fall. that will change up some shit.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: SockpuppetSamurai on March 27, 2012, 10:13:37 pm: I think a great fix would be to add damage to the lance/spear/bigeffingstick that skewers people in mass quantity's. Maybe like a 50% chance that the stick will break when hitting an opponent. Everybody wins, Cav gets to use their pokey sticks but not slaughter half the team with one lance/deathstick. Real lances broke all of the time anyway, not sure why this isn't in the game.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Adrian on March 27, 2012, 10:21:16 pm: Also implement these changes and cav would be a hell of a lot less easy mode.

- riding your horse full speed into a wall, obstacle, etc. damages your horse significantly. This will help combat the cav my old friends from riding full speed into a wall, fence, obstacle to get a kill then simply ride away.

- After each couch a lancer performs their lance has a 50-70% chance of breaking as it would in real life. This would fIx the issue with couch happy lancers.

Lancer cav is just op and easy mode as hell right now. Needs some changes implemented immediately. Any random player right now can just pick up a lance and jump on a horse just riding around lancing/Couching people, top listing after barely anytime spent playing the class.

I think cav speaks for itself when on average about 40-50% of one team is entirely lancers.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: BADPLAYERold on March 27, 2012, 11:00:43 pm: Quote from: Adrian on March 27, 2012, 10:21:16 pm
Lancer cav is just op and easy mode as hell right now. Needs some changes implemented immediately. Any random player right now can just pick up a lance and jump on a horse just riding around lancing/Couching people, top listing after barely anytime spent playing the class.

The only reason this can happen is because they go for afks/people not looking, if people actually paid attention and looked behind them they wouldn't die often to cavalry. Whenever i'm melee I hardly ever die to Cavalry and when I do it's because i'm fighting multiple people can't look behind me all the time and in those situations I should be dieing.
I do think Cavalry is OP in some ways but you are an idiot who doesn't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 27, 2012, 11:05:22 pm: Quote from: Adrian on March 27, 2012, 10:21:16 pm
Also implement these changes and cav would be a hell of a lot less easy mode.

- riding your horse full speed into a wall, obstacle, etc. damages your horse significantly. This will help combat the cav my old friends from riding full speed into a wall, fence, obstacle to get a kill then simply ride away.

Sure if you make it that every time my horse tramples someone it knocks them unconscious. Or when my horse gets killed riding at full speed and the corpse flies into you it kills you or knocks you out.

Quote

- After each couch a lancer performs their lance has a 50-70% chance of breaking as it would in real life. This would fIx the issue with couch happy lancers.

Sure if you allow me to turn the lance over and stab down when I'm stopped. Also when I use a 1h axe and chop a pike 2 or 3 times it should break in half.

Quote

Lancer cav is just op and easy mode as hell right now. Needs some changes implemented immediately. Any random player right now can just pick up a lance and jump on a horse just riding around lancing/Couching people, top listing after barely anytime spent playing the class.

I disagree. Everything has strengths and weaknesses. If you are using your class or equipments strengths to your advantage, you're doing it right. What you're complaining about is like complaining that archers don't run up within melee reach before shooting. Shut the fuck up and learn to play (tactics are part of learning to play).

Quote
I think cav speaks for itself when on average about 40-50% of one team is entirely lancers.

I've never once seen 40-50% of a team as cavalry, let alone lance cav. I've seen at most around 30% and that's on a very "cav heavy" day. 1/3 or 1/4 or 1/5th of troops being on horseback seems like a good ratio to me. If you're putting together an army wouldn't you want at least 1/4 or 1/5th of your troops to be mounted?
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Zisa on March 28, 2012, 02:27:57 am: remap view outfit to left shift.
use it. often.
remap zoom to caps lock.

you'll still get ganked on occasion. welcome to cRPG.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Slev23 on March 28, 2012, 03:35:43 am: Nah, just rename it Cavalry-RPG, ban anyone who isn't cav.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 28, 2012, 03:56:50 am: Quote from: Slev23 on March 28, 2012, 03:35:43 am
Nah, just rename it Cavalry-RPG, ban anyone who isn't cav.
it is Mount & Blade mod afterall...
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Casimir on March 28, 2012, 03:41:23 pm: Quote from: Son Of Odin on March 28, 2012, 03:56:50 am
it is Mount & Blade mod afterall...

Ban everyone using a bow, mace, speaer, maul, crossbow, axes etc. :P
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 03:55:21 pm: Quote from: Casimir on March 28, 2012, 03:41:23 pm
Ban everyone using a bow, mace, speaer, maul, crossbow, axes etc. :P

An axe can count under blade^^

Quote from: BADPLAYER on March 27, 2012, 11:00:43 pm
The only reason this can happen is because they go for afks/people not looking, if people actually paid attention and looked behind them they wouldn't die often to cavalry. Whenever i'm melee I hardly ever die to Cavalry and when I do it's because i'm fighting multiple people can't look behind me all the time and in those situations I should be dieing.
I do think Cavalry is OP in some ways but you are an idiot who doesn't know what you're talking about.

That's just the typical comment of a cavplayer...

The only people they kill are noobs, idiots or people being afk.

When I am melee I'm so fucking epic that every horse around me either just dies or turns around cause I'm soo scary :rolleyes: I never get killed by a horse *uhuh*

And last favourite: Calling people idiots because they state their opinion that actually many players share. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 28, 2012, 04:05:17 pm: Quote from: Slev23 on March 28, 2012, 03:35:43 am
Nah, just rename it Cavalry-RPG, ban anyone who isn't cav.

Because 20-25% of people are cavalry at any given time (usually seems less than this)? Are you considered an "emo"? Do you over-react to everything in life? You want to rename the game because 1/4 of the people are cavalry? :lol:

Some of you just wear the silly on the shirt of your sleeve.
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 03:55:21 pm

And last favourite: Calling people idiots because they state their opinion that actually many players share. :rolleyes:

What's that opinion, that 20-20% of people on cavalry is too many? Yeah, those people ARE idiots.

here's the NA1 battle stats from a month or two ago:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,27409.0.html

Look under the first category you will see "Polearm (Mounted)" accounts for 12.6% of total damage dealt. Crossbow (mounted) 2.6%, one hand mounted 2.4%, 2h mounted 1.9%, bow mounted 1.4% and thrown mounted .2%.

Let's bust out the handy calculator...21.1% if we round up. So of all the damage done on NA1 battle server, 21% was done by mounted units, and people want to act like Cavalry is being used too much?

I repeat, is 1 out of 5 people on horse back too many for you to handle? Maybe Mount and Blade isn't the right game for you then.

Common sense, I has it.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Turboflex on March 28, 2012, 04:17:43 pm: it's so fun for an infantry player to constantly be swivelling around to watch for the approach of cavalry who are just trying to sneak around and watch for a player to be engaged then backstab him. You guys think people login to M&B to deal with that sort of shit? No they want to swordfight people not play sentry duty against honourless backstabbers. You tell people to keep watch behind, but you guys are all watching for the infantry to get distracted so then you can pounce.

Really funny also to see some of the cav defenders in here are also lancing courser riders, with like 8 riding skill and a +3 courser, using the fastest horse possible just so they can more effectively swoop in to distracted people from behind and lance them before they have a chance to react. Pretty much the lamest possible gamestyle built 100% to avoid confrontation and not to give an opponent a chance to react cuz you come in so fast.

Cav is OP against infantry with very little downside, you get to wreck people with a massive speed bonus and when you are eventually dehorsed you still get to keep fighting as a footman (or claim someone elses horse) without a scratch on you for your trouble of falling down at high speed while entangled with a 1500lb animal (something which in real life commonly shattered bones or killed riders).

This is wrecking battle server now cuz now it's fairly common to see 25% of people as cavalry, I expect this to steadily increase as more people go cav with the downside balance mechanism of it (high costs) being shattered cuz people can now easily cover it with a loompoint sale. Battle is now a cav & archer fest, if you are an infantry player who actually wants to focus on clashing with other infantry, stick to siege and strategus battles (where cav is still properly checked by cost limitations).
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 04:23:02 pm: Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on March 28, 2012, 04:05:17 pm

What's that opinion, that 20-20% of people on cavalry is too many? Yeah, those people ARE idiots.

Maybe you should read first and than throw around numbers etc.

I referred to the statement the guy quoted, namely that lance cav is easy-mode and op. That is an opinion many people share. And if you like other people's opinions or not, it doesn't make them idiots you know? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 28, 2012, 04:28:27 pm: Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 04:23:02 pm
Maybe you should read first and than throw around numbers etc.

I referred to the statement the guy quoted, namely that lance cav is easy-mode and op. That is an opinion many people share. And if you like other people's opinions or not, it doesn't make them idiots you know? :rolleyes:

When they ignore facts and continue to go with their "truthy" feeling in their gut despite evidence to the contrary, they are idiots.

See my edited post, I give you hard numbers. People can debate all day whether lance cav is easy mode or not, I could care less. I'm referring to the "OP" part of the comments. Cavalry is not over powered, look at the stats. You can "feel" however you want, but when empirical evidence can show that you're wrong, then you just need to :
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Turbo it's a team game. Every class has strengths and weaknesses. For a team to be "good" it needs to embrace all the different classes and play styles and work together to compliment each other. Pikemen holding off cavalry, shielders protecting 2h's, archers shooting enemy horses. There's lots of ways to employ tactics that embrace the strengths of your teams' classes, it's up to the players to do so.

Pikemen keep cavalry at bay, end of discussion, close thread.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 04:47:31 pm: Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on March 28, 2012, 04:28:27 pm
When they ignore facts and continue to go with their "truthy" feeling in their gut despite evidence to the contrary, they are idiots.

See my edited post, I give you hard numbers. People can debate all day whether lance cav is easy mode or not, I could care less. I'm referring to the "OP" part of the comments. Cavalry is not over powered, look at the stats.

Well, lance-cav is easy-mode, if you agree or not. If it's difficult for you I'm sorry :/

What I meant when it came to op was more that there is just too much cav on servers.

But the op thing is always based on opinions, regardless what stats say.

Some people consider a class that has high speed + speedbonus + a lance that is much longer than most other weapons which is mostly a onehitkill, with horses that can change direction faster than every prokid on a bmx, as op.
Some people don't.
Just because they are not the highest in numbers doesn't mean they are not op.
You want to show me exact numbers to prove what you say, but where are the numbers telling me how many people play a 2h weapon as infantry and how many play lance-cav for example?
Compare percentage of kills with percentage of players using a certain thing BEFORE you throw half of the numbers out to prove anything ;)
If that would be a work at uni to prove anything you would have failed due to bad research, biased conclusion and unexact numbers or whatever the official reason for that are.

Just accept that others might have a different opinion instead of calling them all idiots and trying to be mr smart who knows everything

Cheers
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Casimir on March 28, 2012, 04:53:29 pm: Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 03:55:21 pm
An axe can count under blade^^

Sword = blade

axe = head

:P
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 05:04:09 pm: Quote from: Casimir on March 28, 2012, 04:53:29 pm
Sword = blade

axe = head

:P

rom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

A blade is a sharp cutting part, for instance of a weapon or tool.

So the head of an axe still has a blade ;)

And some online dictionnaries also give Axtklinge (axeblade) as one translation for blade :p

And in German for example it is commonly used to say Axtblatt, which blade can also stand for :D
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Turboflex on March 28, 2012, 05:17:04 pm: Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on March 28, 2012, 04:28:27 pm
Turbo it's a team game. Every class has strengths and weaknesses. For a team to be "good" it needs to embrace all the different classes and play styles and work together to compliment each other. Pikemen holding off cavalry, shielders protecting 2h's, archers shooting enemy horses. There's lots of ways to employ tactics that embrace the strengths of your teams' classes, it's up to the players to do so.

Pikemen keep cavalry at bay, end of discussion, close thread.

That's fine in theory, in reality my idea of fun and challenging "team" gameplay is not to be some cav speedbump having to constantly swivel 360 so I can track jetbike courser lancers, and generally avoid fighting other infantry (cuz that's what cav are waiting for, so they can sweep in on my back).

Like I said, enjoy the cav/archerfest on battle, I'll be just be on siege/rageball or strategus where infantry are still relevant and not just chump fodder for OP cav.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 05:25:07 pm: Quote from: Turboflex on March 28, 2012, 05:17:04 pm
I'll be just be on siege/rageball or strategus where infantry are still relevant and not just chump fodder for OP cav.

And fodder for annoying pinpoint sniper-archers with rusbows, hornbows and nowadays all other cheap bows, too...
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 28, 2012, 05:50:23 pm: Quote from: Chagan_Arslan on March 27, 2012, 09:39:14 am
what we need is only cav server
THIS! I want to own nabs without my old friendchers or infantrymy old friends distracting my joy :mrgreen:
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Smoothrich on March 28, 2012, 07:29:53 pm: cav > unaware infantry
cav < ranged
cav =< aware infantry
cav = cav

ranged > cav
ranged > infantry
ranged = ranged

infantry = infantry
infantry < cav
aware infantry >= cav
infantry < ranged

looks to me like cav is the only balanced class as far as counters go, as it checks itself, usually beats (UNAWARE) infantry and gets destroyed by ranged.

infantry is usually the saddest class to play because you get destroyed by everything else in the game

but ranged.. ranged is the really shitty thing in this game, easily, and 1 arrow can take off 90 percent of a coursers hp with negative speed bonus shot to the body (happened to me yesterday from 50+ yards away as i rode away from the archer)
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Kafein on March 28, 2012, 07:33:35 pm: Quote from: Smoothrich on March 28, 2012, 07:29:53 pm
cav > unaware infantry
cav < ranged
cav =< aware infantry
cav = cav

ranged > cav
ranged > infantry
ranged = ranged

infantry = infantry
infantry < cav
aware infantry >= cav
infantry < ranged

looks to me like cav is the only balanced class as far as counters go, as it checks itself, usually beats (UNAWARE) infantry and gets destroyed by ranged.

infantry is usually the saddest class to play because you get destroyed by everything else in the game

but ranged.. ranged is the really shitty thing in this game, easily, and 1 arrow can take off 90 percent of a coursers hp with negative speed bonus shot to the body (happened to me yesterday from 50+ yards away)

I wish I could sig this.

Everything in this post is true, and everything about cRPG balance which is not compliant with this post is false.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: BADPLAYERold on March 28, 2012, 07:39:28 pm: Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 03:55:21 pm
That's just the typical comment of a cavplayer...

The only people they kill are noobs, idiots or people being afk.

When I am melee I'm so fucking epic that every horse around me either just dies or turns around cause I'm soo scary :rolleyes: I never get killed by a horse *uhuh*

And last favourite: Calling people idiots because they state their opinion that actually many players share. :rolleyes:

bundle of sticks
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Casimir on March 28, 2012, 08:12:15 pm: Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 05:04:09 pm
rom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

A blade is a sharp cutting part, for instance of a weapon or tool.

So the head of an axe still has a blade ;)

And some online dictionnaries also give Axtklinge (axeblade) as one translation for blade :p

And in German for example it is commonly used to say Axtblatt, which blade can also stand for :D

Fine, axes can stay. all else = ban
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 08:21:03 pm: Quote from: BADPLAYER on March 28, 2012, 07:39:28 pm
bundle of sticks

Just proving I was right, thx alot :lol:

Quote from: Casimir on March 28, 2012, 08:12:15 pm
Fine, axes can stay. all else = ban

Owned Casi^^
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 28, 2012, 08:44:09 pm: Quote from: BADPLAYER on March 28, 2012, 07:39:28 pm
bundle of sticks

Yeah he really is butt hurt.
I always kill "elite" players when I'm on horse back. Gisbert, want to know why? Because i realize they will devastate my infantry if I don't take the chance to kill them. So I go out of my way to kill them when I see the opportunity.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 28, 2012, 09:09:51 pm: Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on March 28, 2012, 08:44:09 pm
I always kill "elite" players when I'm on horse back. Gisbert, want to know why? Because i realize they will devastate my infantry if I don't take the chance to kill them. So I go out of my way to kill them when I see the opportunity.

What does it have to do with what we were talking about? Don't get it.

But yeah, I do that, too. If I'm playing archer and I see good players who could kill too many of my team, I aim for them. Would be stupid not to do so
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Riddaren on March 29, 2012, 07:03:13 pm: It amazes me that some people still think cav players are dangerous. They are the least of my prolems when I play on foot...

If I play archer I own cavalry (melee and ranged).
If I play a thrower I own cavalry (melee and ranged).
If I play 2H I own cavalry (melee)
If I play polearm I own cavalry (melee)
If I play 1H I can deal with cavalry (melee)

It amazes me that players have such problems dealing with cavalry. I have no respect for such players and they deserve to e couch lanced as soon as they spawn.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 29, 2012, 07:54:37 pm: Quote from: Riddaren on March 29, 2012, 07:03:13 pm
It amazes me that some people still think cav players are dangerous. They are the least of my prolems when I play on foot...

If I play archer I own cavalry (melee and ranged).
If I play a thrower I own cavalry (melee and ranged).
If I play 2H I own cavalry (melee)
If I play polearm I own cavalry (melee)
If I play 1H I can deal with cavalry (melee)

It amazes me that players have such problems dealing with cavalry. I have no respect for such players and they deserve to e couch lanced as soon as they spawn.

yaya, you best player ever :)
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Smoothrich on March 29, 2012, 11:12:51 pm: he's correct though, if you are aware of the cav you can usually beat them with every class except shielder, which is more of a draw unless the cav screws up bad

cav vs cav is usually a matter of who's better at the class

ranged vs cav, the ranged player just absolutely destroys the horse and rider, its not even close as long as he's aware

cav get high kds from stabbing people in the back because doing anything else will get you killed instantly. boost awareness and you won't get ganked while walking around. get picked off while running from enemies or trampled while 1 vs 1ing someone on a flank? that's what cav is SUPPOSEd to be doing
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Loar Avel on March 29, 2012, 11:24:35 pm: With high Athletics and a 1h weapon who can stab, shielder can also beat cavalry. Although, is much harder than with a 2handed weapon.

But if cav bother you that much, just take a spear, even the shortest one without wpf can stop a cav, and when the cav stop, just kill the horse then rape the cav on the ground.
Title: Re: We need a no cav server.
Post by: Joker86 on March 30, 2012, 01:35:38 am: The last few weeks I go around the forum, always telling the same story:

The poor teamplay on the servers is the reason for most, if not all balancing problems in cRPG.

The game doesn't tell people that they need to play in a team, sticking to the role they have chosen for themselves (Caution! This requires discipline!), nor does it help people who discovered this by themselves with granting a command or at least a usable communication feature, besides those voice commands which are nothing but annoying.

First of all:

Cavalry is underpowered. Heavily underpowered. But retarded, brainless lemming players still manage to make it OP, congratulations on that! Armoured horses get one-hit-killed sometimes, upkeep is too high to make medium/heavy cav a sustainable class, and the attack angles for lances got cut drastically. And still cavalry is probably the easiest class to play at the moment, although it is UP.

Folks that complain about cavalry killing them sounds to me like folks complaining about infantry killing them, but refusing to use the right mouse button to block.

The right mouse button from my example concerning cavalry is teamplay.

This game is NOT fucking Counter Strike, it is NOT fucking Unreal Tournament, and it is definitely NOT the fucking "American Idol"-franchise game, only there to offer you a stage for your uber-skills to get admired by the others.

It is NOT a duelling game, where it's about you killing another player. That would be a duel. It is about you and your mates trying to kill a certain number of enemies. That's a battle! This changes things completely! Suddenly the plain simple mechanics of attacking and defending get complemented by a whole new dimension, called tactics! While I call attacking (slashing/shooting/throwing/backstabbing) and defending (blocking/hiding/running/dodging) the "micro-game", there is a big picture, which I call the "macro-game". It's how the battle is going on.

If you fight one enemy after another on your own, you're best off with an allrounder build. But as soon as you have mates playing with you, you can concentrate yourself on a certain aspect, relying on your teammates to make up for the weakness you develop from this, maximizing the overall performance of your team. And there we are in the macro-game.

The more effective you are in one aspect, the heavier the weaknesses are you grow in other aspects, given that balance is working. And to be honest, the most effective and most specialized class in killing enemies still is infantry. Neither ranged nor cavalry can reach this effectivity. But as said above, the weaknesses must be of the same extend. That's why the different infantry-subclasses (shielders, two handed infs, spearmen/pikemen) need to play together, to reach their maximum effectivity.

The other classes depend less on this. There is no big difference for an archer whether he is supported by a crossbowman or a thrower. All that counts for him is that he has cover, and some teammates around, protecting him.

Cavalry needs even less teamplay. Lancers, 1hd+2hd cavalry and horse archers/xbows/throwers can't really maximize each other's effectivity. All they need is someone distracting the enemy.

This leads to the most important, but also most tragic - as most ignored - insight in cRPG:

50% of playing infantry well is playing in a team. Seriously. There is nothing to discuss about, I just told you everything above.

90% of all players don't know this fact. They play this game like Counter Strike. Spawn, run towards the enemy, try to kill him or get killed, wait till the end of the round, rinse and repeat. Perhaps stick to your teammates, so they can help you if you get in trouble. Which still is no teamplay.

"But I play cRPG just for fun, I don't want to care about tactics and shit. I just want to have some relaxed fun." some people might want to say. Fuck you, I say. Your own fault. You are probably the kind of players that complains about World of Warcraft being completely unsuitable for filling out your 15 free minutes of lunch break, huh? If you want relaxed fun of the Counter Strike kind, then go on duel server, or perhaps siege server. But battle is a battle, it's about two (small) armies, armies always contain the idea of tactics and fighting together (not next to each other). Also infantry is the only class that is really dependant on each other. Of course you are free to ignore those facts, but then shut the fuck up with nerf cries. You can't play chess if you don't know what castling is, or capturing a pawn en passant. And playing chess "just for fun" and expecting to enjoy it is as stupid as can be. There are games with less depth, more suitable for relaxed gaming, and there are games with more depth, which require some induction. cRPG is one of latter.

I have to clarify that I am infantry myself, NOT cavalry (although I used to be, and it was easy as pie), and a notorious infantry fanboy. I think it's the only proper way to engage and kill an enemy, I hate ranged bundle of stickss and those cowardy horse fuckers, all infantrymen are my brothers, but I fear my family has a bad gene pool, as most of my brothers are less well-off. They want to fight, but they only use their left hand for it, and then complain about losing. I feel with them, but it's their own fault.

Playing infantry in cRPG doesn't mean only to learn how to attack and to block, but also how to behave. Often enough it requires discipline and stepping back in favour of your teammates. Unless people don't learn how, things won't change, and we will always have balancing issues.

I already made some suggestions several times before, but they got ignored mainly. Describing the cRPG as a heavily tactical game in the download description would already help a lot, as it would change the expectations of the new players, which would have heavy impact on their entire perception of the game and the course of their career. Good tutorial videos for new players would further reinforce this effect and improve the "education" (= "training" in military means) of new players to skilled and valuable team members.

I know games where almost every player follows some certain rules of behaviour, without the game doing anything to tell him how, and still players do it, because they see the other doing it, and they see it working. My favourite example is Global Agenda. Play it, and do a Dome Defense Raid. (postapocalyptic robots attacking a human dome city). Everyone knows you need a main tank, who places himself into a certain corner of the room to tank the boss, and an offtank who jumps in when the boss fires his main laser. You also need a main healer, who concentrates on healing the tanks with direct heals, and a group healer who heals the rest with heals over time buffs. You also need recons, who are expected to bring their shatter bombs and deconstructor fields, and robotics, who build support stations and sentry turrets. One energy station for example has to be placed next to the main tank, so that he never runs out of power. All this is never mentioned by the game itself, not at any point, not with a single word, and still, when setting up groups people just ask "Who is main tank? Who is offtank?" and so on. Everyone knows what's to do. So don't tell me I expect too much. Just take a look at the chat in the city channel in this game, and you know it's a bunch of retards and trolls, exactly like the cRPG community, but still they are capable of learning certain behaviours. Because it wins them raids and missions, improving their characters.

End of my rage post.

tl;dr version:

90% of infantry are retards, because they don't have the idea to use tactics, or even refuse to! So infantry loses all rights to demand nerfs of other classes.

If all spear- and pikemen would play properly with the other classes and vice versa, all cavalry players on the server would not score more than four or five kills... overall!