cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Gurnisson on March 26, 2012, 01:42:19 pm
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Right now there's no variety in the throwing axes. If you see axes flying through the air you can be pretty sure that it's a heavy throwing axe. Why? Because the other axes are weaker in every aspect but price and difficulty. Seemingly, the only who use these low-tier axes are the ones going with 2-3 throwing and can't use the heavy ones.
I would suggest making the axes somewhat like the spear type of throwing weapons. The spears have some more variety because there's actually a tactical difference between them and not just the difficulty and the damage. The throwing spears requires one more power throw than its more damaging counterpart and is also a bit slower and a bit less accuracte, but you get one more spear. There's a choice you have to make depending on your playstyle if you want that extra spear in each bag or go with more damage on each hit (and score them a bit easier). Javelins are the cheaper counterpart that requires less PT.
I suggest the same could be done with axes. Keep Franciscas as the low-tier axes that requires less PT, make the regular throwing axe have 4 ammo, up its difficulty to 5, up the price and slightly lower its accuracy. Basically, make the same trade-off between jarids and spears between regular throwing axes and heavy throwing axes.
Thoughts?
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I have no idea about throwing stuff in general, but sounds reasonable :mrgreen:
+1.
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I support this suggestion.
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I see people use darts, throwing spears, and jarids, but I'm NA and your Eu.
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Perhaps lowering the speed of the heavy axes and increasing the speed of fransisca a bit might help as well. I'm talking about the throwing/attacking speed here, not the projectile speed.
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I see people use darts, throwing spears, and jarids, but I'm NA and your Eu.
I see the same and that's not what I'm talking about. How many franciscas and regular throwing axes do you see? This is just a suggestion to make the other axes a bit more viable too.
Let's say 80 % of the throwers use the best weapon that they can find while 20 % are looking for the cheapest option or least investment and just want something to throw to stun archers or throw at the melee blob.
Three types of spears: Javelins, Throwing Spears, Jarids
Three types of axes: Francisca, Throwing Axes, Heavy Throwing Axes
If one goes for the spear types of weapons the 20 % would go for javelins. The other 80 % would make a choice between jarids and spears, let's say a 40/40 split.
If one goes for the axes, 20 % would split between franciscas and regular throwing axes, let's say a 10/10 split while the remaining 80 % would go for the heavy throwing axes.
That's why I suggest the change, to get some variety for the axes. Make the regular throwing axe require more PT, give it one more axe and reduce its accuracy a bit. This would make a difficult choice for an axe thrower if he wants the best weapon, just like it's with spears. More damage, higher projectile speed and more accuracy or one more axe in each stack?
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Agreed. When I was a thrower last gen, I found NO REASON, whatsoever, to take the throwing axes over the heavy throwing axes. The heavy ones where just so much better. The +1 ammo seems a pretty good deal. I always had a hard time choosing between throwing spears and jarids, just because of that extra ammo.
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very good point by OP. +1
Here is a 5+ generation hybrid throwers thoughts/ideas/suggestions
increase missile speed on francs and possibly +1 ammo
increase accuracy on reg axes
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Fanciscas should be 5 per stack
Throwing axes 4 per stack
Maybe add a cheese knife (tiny little axe) with 6 per stack:
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This kind of dilemma should be with nearly all weapons though.. but step by step :)
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You know something is wrong if stones nearly have more DAMAGE than both other types of axes types combined. Using NA numbers cuz we have significantly bigger throwing presence.
NA Thrown dmg done (infantry only, mounted removed)
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Jarid 431,517 26.43%
Heavy Throwing Axe 367,085 22.48%
War Darts 215,984 13.23%
Throwing Spear 178,360 10.92%
Throwing Lance 80,450 4.93%
Javelins 62,017 3.80%
Throwing Hammer 51,554 3.16%
Stones 42,571 2.61%
Throwing Daggers 37,973 2.33%
Francisca 26,155 1.60%
Throwing Axe 22,531 1.38%
Snowflake 17,959 1.10%
Darts 13,975 0.86%
Throwing Knives 3,321 0.20%
4-Point Shuriken 2,535 0.16%
6-Point Shuriken 505 0.03%
Smoke Bomb 271 0.02%
Siege Shield 18 0.00%
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:idea:
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:!:
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Siege Shield 18 0.00%
:mrgreen:
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I've kind of always lumped the Throwing Hammers in with the Throwing Axes. Maybe with them included, there is diversity?
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Add knockdown to throwing hammers and reduce ammo to 2, yes, I'm serious.
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Even though I am not a thrower, +1 to anything that helps them, throwers are awesome
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Add knockdown to throwing hammers and reduce ammo to 2, yes, I'm serious.
I have suggested this before. Devs said it is not possible to add knockdown effect to ranged weapons.
And yes, more diversity! +1
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As a former thrower, I agree with this.
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:idea:
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More hammers!
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We need a pierce throwing dagger! More diversity for throwing in general. :D
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I used throwing as a sidearm (4-5 PT) for a couple gens, but went crossbow sidearm just for kicks this gen. I get far more kills with 63 crossbow WPF and zero skill point investment than I got with 5 PT and 100 wpf throwing. Upkeep cost is about the same.
Still, throwing is way more fun, stylish, and satisfying than crossbow. I'd love to see the hordes of crossbows on the battlefield get replaced with some throwers, so buff throwing any way you can.
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MAKE.... THIS... HAPPEN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOsJaEIWkdA&feature=relmfu
Throwing axe and hammer in the same package! ME WANT!
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Cold Steel always demonstrate perfect realism evidence for Mount and Blade.
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Cold Steel always demonstrate perfect realism evidence for Mount and Blade.
We are lucky to have them :D
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We are lucky to have them :D
Agreed, where are the throwing flamberges, balance team?
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You know something is wrong if stones nearly have more DAMAGE than both other types of axes types combined. Using NA numbers cuz we have significantly bigger throwing presence.
Stone damage was all Frugfrug, he was topping battle scoreboards with them, and they're one of the weapons I hate.
OP: Francisca=Javelin, Normal=Spear, Heavy=Jarid? If so I find that fine, but your plans on what to do with hammers?
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Agree on lack of throwing variety.
For example, there could be 3 classes of throwing axes per tier:
* Lightweight, more numerous, less damaging, poor melee
* Mediumweight, less numerous, more damaging, mediocre melee
* Heavyweight, 1-2 per stack, even more damaging, good melee
So, say, PT4 has:
* Light Throwing Axe, 4 per stack, not as good as the...
* Heavy Throwing Axe, 3 per stack, which is inferior in melee to the...
* Broad Throwing Battle Axe, 1 per stack, on par with the Broad One-Handed Battle Axe in melee stats (so that you can be a 1H/throwing hybrid and have a throwing weapon that can double as your melee weapon)
We could use a 2-handed throwing axe too (there are currently no throwing weapons with a 2H secondary mode -- they are all pole or 1H).
More hammer variety would be good too. Their current stats are crap. Throwing Hammer (30 blunt) vs Heavy Throwing Axe (44 cut), the cutoff point seems to be 60 armor. If your target has less than 60 armor, so basically everyone, you're better off with the heavy throwing axe even though it's cut damage.
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Nice idea slamz. I really support that +1
More hammer variety would be good too. Their current stats are crap. Throwing Hammer (30 blunt) vs Heavy Throwing Axe (44 cut), the cutoff point seems to be 60 armor. If your target has less than 60 armor, so basically everyone, you're better off with the heavy throwing axe even though it's cut damage.
You are right, it just doesn't make sense. Javelins and jarids are simply higher damage and same ammo. Don't know if knockback in melee mode can be counted as a factor here, to compensate their weakness.
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at last some good sugestion
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Need diversity!
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:?:
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Well, doesn't seem like the devs/balancers are interested. Locking
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Still a valid suggestion 1 year after. Franciscas and the regular throwing axes are still barely used.
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I made a thread about this a while ago, just need to iron out some of the finer details.
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snowflakes and the other shurikens are also barely used.. to make a shameless, but still true statement :D
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snowflakes and the other shurikens are also barely used.. to make a shameless, but still true statement :D
I have 6 PT. I once thrown one snowflake at Khorin and he said that, from max health (also he had his ninja armor) he dropped down to a fully black lifebar, but he was still alive. A body shot of course. Those low damage cut throwing toys vary wildly in damage depending on the target's armor rating.
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I'd like a long throwing axe which does almighty cut damage and is plausible in melee but you only carry say, 2 and it requires high power throw.
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I think the diversity is there, it's just that the gap between an item being usefull and an item being crap is very small..
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I have 6 PT. I once thrown one snowflake at Khorin and he said that, from max health (also he had his ninja armor) he dropped down to a fully black lifebar, but he was still alive. A body shot of course. Those low damage cut throwing toys vary wildly in damage depending on the target's armor rating.
Funny, because Khorin plays WITHOUT a healthbar. *but you are right, target armor rating means everything in the case of snowflakes.
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I say just increase Francisca ammo count to 5 and Throwing Axe/Javelin ammo count to 4. Up weight of both accordingly.
You might start to see these lower-tier weapons on the battlefield with this change. I'd still use Heavy Throwing Axes, but I generally like to toss them early in the fight to get them out of my inventory (so they don't slow me down), although I keep the last one in 1h mode as my shieldbreaker (+3 heavy throwing axes have a surprisingly good 1h mode; 36 cut).
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See patch notes. Ammo count for Heavy Throwing decreased to 2, Francisca raised to 4. Yay diversity! (the damage adjustment did not justify the loss of an Axe fyi)
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See patch notes. Ammo count for Heavy Throwing decreased to 2, Francisca raised to 4. Yay diversity! (the damage adjustment did not justify the loss of an Axe fyi)
The thing is though, Heavy Throwing Axes were already used 10 times(not an exaggeration) more than franciscas or normal throwing axes, according to the December usage statistics. It may need more damage, we'll have to see.
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Though you did it quite different then what I would expect, you finally created some diversity! Thanks! :)