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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Wookimonsta on March 15, 2012, 03:06:34 pm

Title: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Wookimonsta on March 15, 2012, 03:06:34 pm
Alright, i noticed recently alot of whining about being bumped by cav and all that.

So here are two suggestions that might change how cav works.

1)
When a cav bumps an infantry person, there is a small % chance of the cav being bumped himself and his horse taking damage (dependant on the armor).
This has been tried before and didn't work (yes it was my suggestion, and yes it ended up stupid). But the idea now is that you give cav what I call the "charge mode" button.
+ When cav presses this button, they get immunity from being bumped by collisions and gained an increase amount of charge damage for a certain amount of time. A small armor increase is also a possiblity (armour of valour!)
- The balance would be that during this time, while horse speed is maintained, horse maneuverability is decreased substantially (would require testing as to the amount). This means that once a cav starts charging it is now dedicated to this charge, as aborting it will not work very well. So if the cav suddenly sees 5 pikes ahead, he is pretty much fucked.

The exception to this is that while attempting a couch, the cav ignores being bumped.

2)
Allowing infantry to brace themselves against a horse charge by blocking upwards. If you know you are about to be bumped, you start blocking upwards to "ready yourself" for the coming bump. This would lead to decreased damage to the infantry as well as the chance of being knocked down being decreased.
At the same time, the chance of the cav being bumped by the collision is increased as well.


Lastly, I think a change like this would mean that cav require a larger radius of stabby lance range, since with the current small range its difficult to avoid bumping infantry...
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on March 15, 2012, 03:13:30 pm
Alright, i noticed recently alot of whining about being bumped by cav and all that.

they will always find a reason to whine, as a blatant cav whore you should know it by now

they wont even consider going to siege server or melee only ones, forget about it
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Mlekce on March 15, 2012, 03:20:43 pm
block bumps... yeah.  :rolleyes: Like blocking lances,killing horse in one hit or two arrows,and big upkeep weren't enough.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Meow on March 15, 2012, 03:21:27 pm
Well, 1 and 2 would have to negate each other so if the cav actively charges and the inf actively braces for impact it should be a regular bump.

Slight armor increase seems fine, same should go for inf.

So you would have:

Regular bump vs unprepared inf - like it is at the moment with chance for cav selfbump and horse damage depending weight or armor weight of the person bumped.

Prepared bump vs unprepared inf - more damage to inf, higher knockdown chance, no selfbump and no horse damage

Regular bump vs prepared inf - less damage to inf,  lower knockdown chance, high selfbump chance and higher horse damage

Prepared bump vs prepared inf - like it is at the moment with chance for cav selfbump and horse damage depending weight or armor weight of the person bumped.


Whole thing would need testing though.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Wookimonsta on March 15, 2012, 03:24:01 pm
well.. everything needs testing, I certainly hope the devs don't just go,
hey guys, i had an idea, lets just add this
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Meow on March 15, 2012, 03:28:02 pm
well.. everything needs testing, I certainly hope the devs don't just go,
hey guys, i had an idea, lets just add this

No no, that would never happen!
Especially the balancing is done with thorough testing of each individual change done :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 15, 2012, 04:33:13 pm
I got bumped by a courser by a player that didnt even notice me, lost 25% hp

then a dedicated thrower threw me a jarid, lost the same amount of hp

I find it un fair that cav get a passive weapon that does the same amount of damage as the primary weapon of a dedi thrower...

nerf bump damage!  :twisted:
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Renten on March 15, 2012, 05:20:55 pm
Block down to avoid getting one shot by the lance or block up to take less bump damage.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: masasa on March 15, 2012, 07:00:21 pm
Chance based systems suck in general. Also you are only thinking from lancers perspective, not considering how this affects 1h/2h cav.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Leshma on March 15, 2012, 08:35:06 pm
they will always find a reason to whine, as a blatant cav whore you should know it by now

they wont even consider going to siege server or melee only ones, forget about it

You think that you're entitled to big battle servers?

Bump damage is huge and you know it. Every day I see players who just bump people, don't even try to stab them or slash them. Just bump and couched lance all the time. You really don't think that's lame?

As you know I'm for lance angle buff. Currently cavalry is horribly boring class to play. It gives results but it's mostly hunting unaware people and that can't be fun all the time.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: EyeBeat on March 15, 2012, 09:34:50 pm
When bump damage finally gets nerfed there will be so many tears...

I can't wait.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Kafein on March 15, 2012, 09:50:44 pm
Reducing maneuver of horses further is not acceptable. In Warband, being "commited to your charge" doesn't work. People just sidestep like professional dancers in cloth and usually release a shot/slash you.

It would only weaken cav even more and continue to force us into dishonourable sneaky ways.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on March 15, 2012, 10:16:47 pm
Or if you knew you where going to be bumped you could just not be a total noob and actually stab the horse its pretty easy. Bump damage does almost nothing to people actually wearing armor, almost everyone uses horses that do very little bump damage. Given that many people, including myself as a 1h cav do not attack people who are aware we are charging them, this change would only buff cav. Also its just completly retarded, the idea of a 200 pound man putting his sheild up and stopping a charging 2000 pound horse in its tracks if not hurting it. It would be like someone being able to stop a car from running them over by stiff arming it. At any rate the vast majoirty of cav kills are from using their weapons, i can count on one hand the number of people ive seen riding around on a plated charger just running people over. Being cav is expensive because it is good, if you wanna nerf cav significantly reduce the prices of horses.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Leshma on March 15, 2012, 10:41:33 pm
Being cav is expensive because it is good, if you wanna nerf cav significantly reduce the prices of horses.

I bet you are the only cav in this game who supports this idea.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Rumblood on March 15, 2012, 11:05:21 pm
Wait, if you nerf bumps, how on earth will they do the bump and stab through your horses chest and gut at the guy on the ground?
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Leshma on March 15, 2012, 11:10:18 pm
I don't want to nerf bumps. It's a tactical advantage cav has, it should stay. But high damage has to go. It should do minimal damage to everyone. Bumping should only be used as a way to make someone unable to defend himself or to bump slash him.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: justme on March 15, 2012, 11:22:18 pm
i dont want to nerf bump damage, i just want to see less bumping.. its more annoying then knockdown+polestun together
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 15, 2012, 11:25:07 pm
I bet you are the only cav in this game who supports this idea.
Yeah he isn't the sharpest tool in the box...
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on March 15, 2012, 11:34:30 pm
2)
Allowing infantry to brace themselves against a horse charge by blocking upwards. If you know you are about to be bumped, you start blocking upwards to "ready yourself" for the coming bump. This would lead to decreased damage to the infantry as well as the chance of being knocked down being decreased.
At the same time, the chance of the cav being bumped by the collision is increased as well.

All righty then. So what your saying is "Give me lance fodder or give me... crazy op charge of death"??

How about this, when you rear a horse there is 50/50 chance the rider will get dismounted and land on his face on the ground. It doesn't solve the stupid horse bump damage thing, it doesn't do a lot of things. But it would be funny as hell and it will drive away the not very good cav players.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Para on March 16, 2012, 12:01:22 am
I say slightly reduce damage on bumps, maybe 10-20%, and make heavy and maybe great lances 3 slot.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on March 16, 2012, 03:24:58 am
I bet you are the only cav in this game who supports this idea.

I dont ride a courser, i prefer heavier horses so if prices where lowered i could afford an armored horse. Sounds like a good thing to me.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Gurnisson on March 16, 2012, 03:44:04 am
Great Lance 3 slots? You must be joking..
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Para on March 16, 2012, 09:59:24 am
Great Lance 3 slots? You must be joking..

I just think cav that use a heavy lance + shield and 1h have an insane amount of utility. Even after their horse is taken down they are still just as deadly on the ground with the right build (DAN comes to mind).

I'm not 100% on the great lance being 3 slots part. At least making the heavy lance 3 slots would make the player less formidable on the ground as they would have to choose between a shield for horseback or a 1h when they are grounded.

It seems logical that pikes and long spears are 3 slot because they had too much utility carrying another 2 hander around, heavy lances should be the same.
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Wookimonsta on March 16, 2012, 10:03:16 am
All righty then. So what your saying is "Give me lance fodder or give me... crazy op charge of death"??

How about this, when you rear a horse there is 50/50 chance the rider will get dismounted and land on his face on the ground. It doesn't solve the stupid horse bump damage thing, it doesn't do a lot of things. But it would be funny as hell and it will drive away the not very good cav players.

uhm, i don't know about you, but its not very difficult to just dive under the horse when its coming at you. archers used to do it all the time when bumping did almost no damage.

You have 2 options.
a) block down and avoid getting bamped
b) block up and try to get bamped.

Seriously, getting in front of the horse is NOT difficult
Title: Re: 2 Cav suggestions from a blatant cav whore
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 16, 2012, 10:13:53 am
I found this quote from anonymous source :rolleyes::

''Trolls on the internet are like poops in the forest:
Watch your step!'' -Wooki