cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Rumblood on March 06, 2011, 05:59:07 pm
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This topic should be good for at least -10 awesome points!
Ranged got a speed nerf. That's fine, I think they way they are right now is good.
Ponies need a speed nerf for both similiar reasons, and for reasons caused by the speed nerf AND by the switch weapons speed nerf.
Basically, here's the scenario. With a horse charging at range, with a Strong or Warbow, not even the Long Bow, you get one shot at the horse just as it gets into max range. Even if it hits, it wont kill the horse, and with the total inaccuracy of archery after nerf, you can't even try legitimately at the rider and expect to hit them. As soon as you release your arrow, you try to switch out to am melee weapon (say a pike). The weapon switching is so slow, combined with the time it takes to draw back the pike and thrust forwards, that you have been overrun and killed before you can actually shoot an arrow at accuracy range for a HORSE, and then switch to melee.
A Courser with a speed of 48 is FASTER than the first 3 bows are. A horse that can outrun arrows? Man that is AWESOME!
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go back on your roof troll ;p
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As an archer with 130 wpf, I have no problem shooting horses (And I do OS the horses that are lowly armored, just ask Air about the arrows to the horse face, or any of the other players I have done that to).
I highly reccomend you post your current archer stats here, as I am extremely curious what is going on.
For the record, I have 130 archery wpf, 30 STR, 10 PD and a standard warbow using bodkins.
What are you using?
EDIT: And yes I am taking this topic with complete seriousness. I have time to burn.
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As an archer with 130 wpf, I have no problem shooting horses (And I do OS the horses that are lowly armored, just ask Air about the arrows to the horse face, or any of the other players I have done that to).
I highly reccomend you post your current archer stats here, as I am extremely curious what is going on.
For the record, I have 130 archery wpf, 30 STR, 10 PD and a standard warbow using bodkins.
What are you using?
You kill horses in 1 shot? Courser can take 4 arrows at PD 9 125 WPF with Fine Strong Bow. I didn't say I couldn't shoot a horse, but it does no good to shoot the horse. It won't die, it won't interrupt and you WILL get a lance to the face and die. So you put 1 arrow into the horse, it doesn't slow down one bit. By time you switch to melee after shooting that arrow, the courser has already run you over.
You also have ignored my point that no horse should be able to run faster than a bow can shoot. :lol:
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By the way, this doesn't even begin to cover what happens on a Cavalry map full of Fog. Ever see those vampire movies where the victim is surrounded by fog and faster than you can see or react, those vampires come flying in, slash and fly away? It's just like that on a Heavy Fog map with Cavalry running around.
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By the way, this doesn't even begin to cover what happens on a Cavalry map full of Fog. Ever see those vampire movies where the victim is surrounded by fog and faster than you can see or react, those vampires come flying in, slash and fly away? It's just like that on a Heavy Fog map with Cavalry running around.
Personally i really enjoyed the (thankfully few) maps where that happened, it did indeed feel like i was playing a horror game with horses coming out of nowhere :D
On topic, it seems fine as it is, when i was an archer i was usually able to hold the arrow till they got closer and just shoot them right before they hit me nearly every time.
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The only exceptionally fast ponies I see are pure horsemen riding Champion Coursers, and when they finally get dismounted they are pure shit on the ground (See Rohpynal).
and yes fog is a horseman's best friend by default but I don't think that merits a nerf. I mean fog is a huuge disadvantage to archers but you don't see people using that as an excuse to buff em.
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You kill horses in 1 shot? Courser can take 4 arrows at PD 9 125 WPF with Fine Strong Bow. I didn't say I couldn't shoot a horse, but it does no good to shoot the horse. It won't die, it won't interrupt and you WILL get a lance to the face and die. So you put 1 arrow into the horse, it doesn't slow down one bit. By time you switch to melee after shooting that arrow, the courser has already run you over.
You also have ignored my point that no horse should be able to run faster than a bow can shoot. :lol:
Hmm, yes I agree that is should be impossible for a horse to outrun an arrow, but a headshot on a horse does deal extra damage in my experience and with my build it does one shot the lesser horses.
I also want to point out that archers should get their bum kicked one on one with a horseman, it seems reasonable considering it should be their counter, as well as that archers are a support class and thus need melee support, as well as that the horseman has a lot more gold worth of stuff.
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You kill horses in 1 shot? Courser can take 4 arrows at PD 9 125 WPF with Fine Strong Bow. I didn't say I couldn't shoot a horse, but it does no good to shoot the horse. It won't die, it won't interrupt and you WILL get a lance to the face and die. So you put 1 arrow into the horse, it doesn't slow down one bit. By time you switch to melee after shooting that arrow, the courser has already run you over.
You also have ignored my point that no horse should be able to run faster than a bow can shoot. :lol:
If he's charging you head on, aim at the head or the rider, with the speed bonus it's an almost guaranteed one hit kill unless your build is terribad.
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I suppose I have it a little different as a crossbowman, but when I know someone is about to try and lance me, I don't aim for the horse. I wait for the point blank shot and shoot the rider. Even if it doesn't kill him (speed bonus is huge with that shot), it will interrupt him and (should) stop his lance attack. Now, I don't have time to load another bolt if he circles around, but an archer should have time to notch another arrow and do it again. He will probably be intimidated after that first hit, and rightly so.
The worst thing that happens from doing this is when you headshot the horse instead, killing it, but still somehow get lanced as the rider falls. Not a cool trade.
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In some SP mod is one interesting thing. Your horse gets slower when it have lower HP. So when it is almost dead then you move slower than on foot. Maybe we could do it here too but i like horses too much to vote for such horrible nerf :)
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horses outrunning arrows is a joke of course, otherwise I don't care too much - if they get me, they get me, but even with PD7/8 I have oneshotted more than one pony and sometimes the rider. Just wait til they are relatively close, so you can see the ponyrider's nose plow the ground right in front of your feet after you shot his beast... ;-)
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Personally i really enjoyed the (thankfully few) maps where that happened, it did indeed feel like i was playing a horror game with horses coming out of nowhere :D
On topic, it seems fine as it is, when i was an archer i was usually able to hold the arrow till they got closer and just shoot them right before they hit me nearly every time.
Okay, this is in response to this and Gristle. Gristle, you hit it on the head. You have a xbow that can hold its aim forever. Mullerian, you clearly haven't played an archer in the last 2-3 months. If you did, you would know that you can't hold an arrow. You need to be able to predict the time that you will actually release your arrow somewhere between 3 seconds (Fine Strong bow) and 4 seconds (Long bow). Once your reticule has completely reduced to its best accuracy, only then can you release your arrow, and you have about .25-.5 second to do it, before it expands out again slightly (but significantly when you are talking shooting at range, not point blank shots), and then maybe another second before it expands out to "Hail Mary" accuracy. You are also committing yourself to all or nothing. Either you kill the horse and dump the rider (who you still have to fight btw), hit the rider before he hits you, or 50-75% of the time you die. The Rider has the chance of losing his horse or missing you or maybe taking some damage. You wont one hit a rider without a head shot.
I still see no reason why a horse should run faster than an arrow. Perhaps the speed ratings don't translate across accurately, but I've shot my hunting bow after some running horses and they were like 2 cars on the highway together. :lol:
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Okay, this is in response to this and Gristle. Gristle, you hit it on the head. You have a xbow that can hold its aim forever. Mullerian, you clearly haven't played an archer in the last 2-3 months. If you did, you would know that you can't hold an arrow. You need to be able to predict the time that you will actually release your arrow somewhere between 3 seconds (Fine Strong bow) and 4 seconds (Long bow). Once your reticule has completely reduced to its best accuracy, only then can you release your arrow, and you have about .25-.5 second to do it, before it expands out again slightly (but significantly when you are talking shooting at range, not point blank shots), and then maybe another second before it expands out to "Hail Mary" accuracy. You are also committing yourself to all or nothing. Either you kill the horse and dump the rider (who you still have to fight btw), hit the rider before he hits you, or 50-75% of the time you die. The Rider has the chance of losing his horse or missing you or maybe taking some damage. You wont one hit a rider without a head shot.
I still see no reason why a horse should run faster than an arrow. Perhaps the speed ratings don't translate across accurately, but I've shot my hunting bow after some running horses and they were like 2 cars on the highway together. :lol:
I did play an archer for 2 generations from gen 1 and up right after the big patch and it worked quite decently for me, so perhaps your timing is off? I know i use the right click a lot to reset the animation since im using my longbow and that isnt the fastest thing available.
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if u can t kill the horses then aim for the guy on the horse trying to lance u, simply shoot him and it ruins his attack, easy as that
horses are only a problem when u don t see them or if u make a mistake
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InHumanetie, the speed of the horse is unbalanced in comparison to ranged speed. Of course, you could simply add 9 to the shoot speed of all bows and resolve that issue. Shall I make a different suggestion called Speed'em up for bows instead? How many of you who agree that a horse should not be faster than a bow would prefer to speed up the arrows instead?
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InHumanetie, the speed of the horse is unbalanced in comparison to ranged speed. Of course, you could simply add 9 to the shoot speed of all bows and resolve that issue. Shall I make a different suggestion called Speed'em up for bows instead? How many of you who agree that a horse should not be faster than a bow would prefer to speed up the arrows instead?
This. We can always decrease the base damage to cancel out the speed increase for total damage purposes for arrows.
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You kill horses in 1 shot? Courser can take 4 arrows at PD 9 125 WPF with Fine Strong Bow. I didn't say I couldn't shoot a horse, but it does no good to shoot the horse. It won't die, it won't interrupt and you WILL get a lance to the face and die. So you put 1 arrow into the horse, it doesn't slow down one bit. By time you switch to melee after shooting that arrow, the courser has already run you over.
It's called teammates, or do you really really want the archer to be the solo ninja which can kill everything even on perfectly flat ground? In that case, wtf.
Anyway, pull out a pike, stab, done. Or alternatively shoot the rider up close, interrupts his attack. Attacking a aware archer with a courser is close to impossible, and a waste of a horse. I don't know what your problem is exactly.
You also have ignored my point that no horse should be able to run faster than a bow can shoot. :lol:
I suggest you test it.
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Geez Bruce, I had no idea that killing a horse was the same as killing a player :rolleyes:
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Geez Bruce, I had no idea that killing a horse was the same as killing a player :rolleyes:
Virtually. Just aim up a bit with your pike and kill both the horse and the riding in 1 poke.
If you just kill the horsie, the rider will get killed fairly fast by you or your teammates. Just kill the horsie close to you and headshot the rider when he's on the ground.
Take a look on the battleservers. It happens all the time.
When I play cav, I either die by arrows, lances from other cav or I get killed in the first few seconds after being dehorsed. Most of the time without being able to block.
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Aye, the best way for an organized battleline to turn into a chaotic lynch mob in a heartbeat? Just dehorse a rider nearby, teammates will practically trample one another to get at the poor soul.
I know I am guilty of quickly readjusting aim to the prone rider if I already have an arrow ready and I am an archer, it is just too tempting of a target no matter what class you are playing.
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Aye, the best way for an organized battleline to turn into a chaotic lynch mob in a heartbeat? Just dehorse a rider nearby, teammates will practically trample one another to get at the poor soul.
*lol* - exactly. If I am on siege as attacker and one of them is marauding in our spawn area, I forget about everything else, incl. flag, and go ponyhunting. And usually I am not the only one... ;-)
BTW, about 'dem horsies being difficult to shoot: I am a really "mediocre" archer (hybrid build, just around 130 in archery), I am a semi-n00b, AND I have to deal with constantly 200+ ping, so I have to shoot roughly 1/3 of a second into the future.
And today alone I got 4 of the trampling beasts, one headshot, two others were already scratched by someone else and fell with one arrow, one needed two... naaa - they are ok as they are. And when I get slain by one of the ponyriders (happens a lot since I am a lot in tunnelview) - hey, they shall have some fun, too ;-)
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It's called teammates, or do you really really want the archer to be the solo ninja which can kill everything even on perfectly flat ground? In that case, wtf.
No, but conversely you seem to think that cavalry should be the solo field ninja's that can outrun arrows and kill anyone with 1 hit, and you also act as though killing a horse is the same as killing a player. It's not. It's like making a thrower run out of javelins.
You act like solo horse riders have some kind of Divine Right to being able to be able to attack a group of 4 players at speed, get a 1 hit kill on one of them and just gallop off whistling dixie. They do it all the time and a single arrow hit in a 7 second time frame just ain't going to cut it.
Trust me, game balance is the cavalry charges in, maybe gets his 1 hit kill, but then LOSES his horse and yes, gets forced to melee.
Horse speed wasn't nerfed. Everything else was, including time it takes to switch out weapons. Either reduce the horse speed and achieve game balance, or increase the bow speed to be faster than a courser, decrease the draw time for bows, and reduce the time it takes to switch weapons to be balanced with the horses speed.
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You act like solo horse riders have some kind of Divine Right to being able to be able to attack a group of 4 players at speed, get a 1 hit kill on one of them and just gallop off whistling dixie. They do it all the time and a single arrow hit in a 7 second time frame just ain't going to cut it.
BS. First, it's a courser. It can very well die in one arrow shot in the face, one crossbow shot in the body if it's charging, or one throwing projectile, as well as get stopped and killed by a surprise pike from the ass, or outright killed from it. Hell, a aware onehander can one-hit kill a lancer's horse and then overhead the lancer on the floor for bonus style points. Charging 4 aware people is a ticket to suicide. Try it before you speak such nonsense.
Trust me, game balance is the cavalry charges in, maybe gets his 1 hit kill, but then LOSES his horse and yes, gets forced to melee.
What happens if the people are trying to kill your horse. Except, it's more like, charge in, get 0 kills, lose horse, lose half hp or full hp on ground, then try to melee. That is when you charge people with a clue and are watching. Yes, when nobody is watching and nobody cares to turn you can charge a group of 20 people, kill one or two and get away with it. Sometimes people seem to play as if they were all autorunning to the combat zone. Sometimes such a maneuver gets your horse surprise-onehit in midst of a gang, which is basically just as dead as being instakilled outright.
Horse speed wasn't nerfed. Everything else was, including time it takes to switch out weapons.
No, it wasn't. You can still pull a magic pike from your ass when a horse (a courser with riding 5) is 20m away then stab and spin it while stabbing and stab the horse with the shaft of the pike and it will rear the horse.
Either reduce the horse speed and achieve game balance, or increase the bow speed to be faster than a courser, decrease the draw time for bows, and reduce the time it takes to switch weapons to be balanced with the horses speed.
You can already switch weapons when a horse is 20m away. Just switch and start stabbing. Duh. And really, if you think horses are faster then arrows in the game, you're beyond help.