cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Rumblood on March 09, 2012, 11:22:57 pm
-
This was a response to a Balance Thread. I am making it an Official Suggestion.
The Tatar bow should have its missile speed reduced by 3, the Horn Bow missile speed reduced by 2, and the LongBow should have its missile speed increased to 42-45 depending upon testing. That will give it its niche.
This will address a number of complaints around bows.
1:Because missile speed determines the arc the arrow will take, increasing the missile speed will increase the accuracy of an archer over Long ranges without increasing accuracy at shorter ranges.
2: Decreasing the missile speed for the more accurate bows will take away some of the laser pointer accuracy at short distances (and decreases even more as range increases).
Here are the changes in playstyle this will open:
Slow missile speed bows: These bows will gain more of an arc like they used to do. The advantages gained by the slower missile speed DOES outweigh the loss of the damage and accuracy when in the hands of a skilled archer.
- Arc allows you to shoot over objects. That means that I can kill xbows trying to load on the OTHER side of a rooftop. Most of those shots land on their head due to the arc for greater damage. It also allows you to shoot cavalry after they have passed behind a hill. It also allows an archer to stand behind their infantry on a bridge map and arc into the enemy. (Yes, I did all this regularly and on purpose with the slower missile speed)
- Decreased missile speed means less damage per normal shot. This will allow unarmoured cavalry to live through another shot from the hyper accurate small bows for anything from the side or behind, but will SIGNIFICANTLY increase the damage done against charging horses. Means less nerf lobby for ranged, and means an accurate archer who headshots a charging horse will no longer watch in amazement as it continues on and they die to a lance.
Fast missile speed bows: These bows will have nearly a straight line for their arc. The advantages are fairly obvious:
- Due to no drop in the arrow flight path, this will make an archer much more accurate over a longer distance. Because the reticule isn't affected, they are no better at aiming, but the arrow will land in the area to where it is launched.
- Due the the increase in missile speed, incoming infantry within a close range will no longer be able to dodge after the arrow is launched. It will be too fast and they wont have enough time to react.
Likely people will have a problem with advantage number 2 for obvious reasons, but we all know that the excessively long draw time on the Long Bow is the balancing factor. So stay back far enough until the Long Bow shoots, then rush in before he load again and you are in the "No react zone".
If they leave everything else alone, and make these changes, I think that most of the player base will appreciate the difference it will make in archery. You can see the clearly defined roles for each that it will create.
-
Leave rusbow unchanged hey, while nerfing tatar bow and horn bow, wich have already a pretty bad missile speed.
Slower missile speed is in no way an advantage, it means it's easier to dodge, more difficult to aim even at medium distance (i already have to do some terrible arcs) and seriously, it's impossible to play with the arc unless you're "cheating" and have modified the arrow's look by brightening it.
And seriously, i don't want to 1hit kill horses charging at me, i don't want my base damage to be nerfed again, just because of that missile speed nerf.
Definitely no.
-
Leave rusbow unchanged hey, while nerfing tatar bow and horn bow, wich have already a pretty bad missile speed.
Slower missile speed is in no way an advantage, it means it's easier to dodge, more difficult to aim even at medium distance (i already have to do some terrible arcs) and seriously, it's impossible to play with the arc unless you're "cheating" and have modified the arrow's look by brightening it.
And seriously, i don't want to 1hit kill horses charging at me, i don't want my base damage to be nerfed again, just because of that missile speed nerf.
Definitely no.
Well I had some responses to you, but since they would basically tell you that you aren't a decent archer, I will skip those.
I'll just mention the fact that GrannPappy owns and uses a Tatar Bow for accuracy and a Horn Bow for Power. I don't use any 2 slot bow at all currently even though I exceed the PD requirements for them.
I will also say that it is very likely that you have no understanding of how the speed bonus works.
-
Well I had some responses to you, but since they would basically tell you that you aren't a decent archer, I will skip those.
I'll just mention the fact that GrannPappy owns and uses a Tatar Bow for accuracy and a Horn Bow for Power. I don't use any 2 slot bow at all currently even though I exceed the PD requirements for them.
I will also say that it is very likely that you have no understanding of how the speed bonus works.
So you basically, rather than explain things to me, prefer saying that i don't know anything, that i suck, and that i should keep my mouth shut ?
And who cares about the useless fact that GrannPoppy uses two bows and that you use only 1 slots. That's totally irrelevant.
Now that's an awesome way to start a suggestion, by lowering people offering criticism. Well done dear lad. Find it unbelievable you're an admin. Then again, you're NA.
-
As said in the other thread, rusbow definitely needs a nerf.
I'm not sure about your suggestions, as said, would like to see some testing on it.
In my opinion less missile speed for two bows and more for one bow isn't the answer to balance the bows
-
So you basically, rather than explain things to me, prefer saying that i don't know anything, that i suck, and that i should keep my mouth shut ?
And who cares about the useless fact that GrannPoppy uses two bows and that you use only 1 slots. That's totally irrelevant.
Now that's an awesome way to start a suggestion, by lowering people offering criticism. Well done dear lad. Find it unbelievable you're an admin. Then again, you're NA.
My original response contains the information you need to understand how this will effect outcome in game. You clearly did not get it. Should I have quoted it?
Your response was that you are already having problems. If you are already having problems with the Tatar and Horn bow then you really really need to learn to play.
I mention the fact that I am using the very bows you are complaining that I am calling to have missile speed lowered and do NOT use the bow that I suggest have an increase in speed. The Rus bow would remain unchanged because it is already where it should be. Nor have I modified my arrows. They are the standard model, not any texture pack at all. It is very relevant because you certainly appear to be trying to accuse me of bias towards the Rus for some reason.
While you don't know anything, and do need to learn to play, I certainly didn't tell you to keep your mouth shut. Say what you will, but you will not get any sympathy over not being able to do well with a Horn Bow, even with reduced missile speed.
-
It think it'd add some interesting variation between bows and what bows are used where, so I approve. Bows need some variation too, just like good old throwing.
-
Poll it up.
-
My original response contains the information you need to understand how this will effect outcome in game. You clearly did not get it. Should I have quoted it?
Your response was that you are already having problems. If you are already having problems with the Tatar and Horn bow then you really really need to learn to play.
I mention the fact that I am using the very bows you are complaining that I am calling to have missile speed lowered and do NOT use the bow that I suggest have an increase in speed. The Rus bow would remain unchanged because it is already where it should be. Nor have I modified my arrows. They are the standard model, not any texture pack at all. It is very relevant because you certainly appear to be trying to accuse me of bias towards the Rus for some reason.
While you don't know anything, and do need to learn to play, I certainly didn't tell you to keep your mouth shut. Say what you will, but you will not get any sympathy over not being able to do well with a Horn Bow, even with reduced missile speed.
Typical crpg forum comment....blablabla, learn to play you are an idiot. You don't know him do you? You don't know his playstyle or how long he hasn't been ingame or whatever. Maybe you guys skill differently? Maybe he has a hybridclass and that's why he got some probs with these bows cause he doesn't put all points in archery? Or maybe it's just totally different now for him than it has before cause he used to play in a certain way with the hornbow?
Jeeezzzz all these fucking arrogant people on this forum :rolleyes: Uuhh yeah me so good, you idiot, you learn to play.
Why don't you just start friendly discussion about that stuff? You asked for opinions, he tells you no because of certain reasons. Your only answer is that he is a noob/ an idiot. Let his comment be, discuss it in a mature way a bit and let devs decide what to do in the end or just start a poll...
-
I didn't call him an idiot. I didn't tell him to shut up. His "certain reasons" were that I am biased towards Rus bow and against Horn and Tatar which is demonstrably false as I explained. They are also that he is already having problems using the Horn and Tatar bow. If he is having problems using those bows, he does need to learn to play as an archer. It is a fact that the Horn Bow is the BEST bow in the game. The BEST.
My only mistake was not taking the time to explain to him why he is a bad archer. But, as I have no playtime experience with him, I can't tell you why he is a poor one. The best I could have done was to tell him that if you can't use the Horn bow, you aren't any good. I attempted to skip over, because this thread isn't about his skill as an archer. I referred him back to the OP that contained the information that explains why this isn't a nerf to the horn or tatar, which also explain why he is wrong. People just look for ways to be insulted nowadays.
Poll added Frank.
-
Arrows fly ridiculously slow already.
This game requires good reflexes. Although the time between seeing an enemy preparing for a swing and connecting with your body is roughly, lets say 0.3 - 0.5 seconds, most people already mastered manual blocking with decent consistency.
The time between seeing an arrow flying in your direction and connecting with your body is range dependend of course, but even on short-mid ranges it climbs up to more than 0.7 - 1 second rapidly, exeeding the the 2 second mark at long ranges. Even my grandparents could dodge arrows in this game. You already see people dancing in the most stupid manner, right in front of an archers nose, because even at this range you still need to lead the target by a bit.
You already see enough teamhits due to the incedibly long arrow flight time, where you shoot at a target, and just as soon as the arrow is released some teammate pops up from behind a tree who was not there 3 seconds ago, just to catch your arrow with his head.
All this combined with the fact that you already need about 5 hits per average armored target in order to kill something with a 1 slot bow, you will probably need 15 arrows per target if you count in the misses that will be more common as you need to be even less skilled to dodge arrows after such a change.
And Yes, although I can get good scores as an archer I think we dont need a 52. archery nerf in a row just so fat melee kids wont break a sweat when being forced to rapidly press A 'n' D or wiggle the mouse around to not get hit, as the only way to get good scores as an archer already is to kill steal, to be an uber pro headshot master or to have a lvl 33-35 10PD, 10ATH, 9000 WPF archer.
I mean Im being shot at all day, most of the time by multiple ranged enemies, and I have absolutely no trouble with dodging missiles. Just open your eyes, look where hes aiming and make sure not to walk there. Do I have some magic powers ? Is it really THAT much of a problem for all the ranged QQers to be a little more aware of your suroundings so archers have to be nerfed again ? This mod is too noob friendly already.
I dont know you Rumblood as you probably are a NA only player, reading some comments in this thread I might assume that you are somewhat fame around here ( and your title of course ), but be honest I cant really tell whether you played more than 5 minutes as an archer the last few months.
-
Just open your eyes, look where hes aiming and make sure not to walk there.
Disagree.
I simply close my eyes and randomly hit my WASD keys whilst spinning my mouse around as fast as possible.
Then I watch as 95% of the archers arrows miss me a strategy that even works mounted.
-
Disagree.
I simply close my eyes and randomly hit my WASD keys whilst spinning my mouse around as fast as possible.
Then I watch as 95% of the archers arrows miss me a strategy that even works mounted.
Im sure history books will prove they have done it exactly like this back then.
-
Well Rumblood, not being able to shoot with a hornbow doesn't mean you are a bad archer :/
I know I am a good archer but I can't shoot with a hornbow either. Always used warbow and changed to longbow at a certain time. Totally different to hornbow. Give me a hornbow in strat for example and I will hit/kill almost noone. Give me a longbow and I'll do fine^^
Different bows, differently to play, says nothing about your skills if you can't play with one of them.
But still as said, would like to see some testing on your proposal.
-
Hey Xynox, yeah GrannPappy is practically a synonym for archer.
The numbers that I suggested were actually already implemented once before(roughly), but it was across the range of bows. That change was reverted. However, during that time, I had adopted to the style and was doing better with those bows than previously after I adjusted my tactics. To be very honest, I was unhappy when the changes were reverted. It took away my ability to shoot enemies sitting somewhere to which I had no direct Line Of Sight. (over rooftops, hills, or behind friendly infantry)
So I respectfully disagree with the assertion that this would be a nerf. Trust me. When you can stand behind your friendly infantry lobbing arrows into the enemy unharrassed, your scores will certainly improve. Currently archers must shoot through gaps (risking team hits) or find a different angle (which means the friendly infantry is no longer a buffer for you)
I believe that the concept of "getting a good score" as an archer is far overvalued. If by that, you mean what the scoreboard reflects, I can agree and disagree. It only shows kills and team wins. If rolling x5 while going 0-4, yet you killed 20 horses and inflicted damage on 50 players during those 5 rounds doesn't give you a sense of satisfaction, well I can understand the complaints.
In that case, the lobby for additional stats to be shown on the scoreboard should crank itself up for some serious addressing of that topic. I myself am good with knowing that the Cavalry player who normally rolls 20-1 is going 0-1 because I shot his pony.
The problem is that you can land 20 arrows and go 15-0, or you can go 0-1. That's why some want just a raw damage display. I think it would change attitudes about specific builds and playstyles.
To be blunt, if this is implemented I almost expect to see a negative reaction from infantry who will then complain about the arrows they are being hit with that they can do nothing about.
ie: "You took away ladders and rooftop camping, but now archers can't even be reached AT ALL because they stand behind their team and if you focus on the archer you'll be melee spammed to death!"
-
To be blunt, if this is implemented I almost expect to see a negative reaction from infantry who will then complain about the arrows they are being hit with that they can do nothing about.
ie: "You took away ladders and rooftop camping, but now archers can't even be reached AT ALL because they stand behind their team and if you focus on the archer you'll be melee spammed to death!"
True true^^ So is the rest about the score doesn't matter when you know you killed the pony^^
-
This change sounds realistic and as one of the few tar tar bow users Id think this change would be ok on 1 condition
Make Tartar reload faster because they were used by horse archers at pretty close range to pepper foes.
Make longbow reload slower cuz the torque needed to fire the bows was great so id be slower (also to compensate for increased accuracy.)
-
Arrows fly ridiculously slow already.
Everything is slow in this mod... except horses.
-
This change sounds realistic and as one of the few tar tar bow users Id think this change would be ok on 1 condition
Make Tartar reload faster because they were used by horse archers at pretty close range to pepper foes.
Make longbow reload slower cuz the torque needed to fire the bows was great so id be slower (also to compensate for increased accuracy.)
Maybe on the Tatar, no on the Long Bow. Reload is already way too long.
-
Hey Xynox, yeah GrannPappy is practically a synonym for archer.
The numbers that I suggested were actually already implemented once before(roughly), but it was across the range of bows. That change was reverted. However, during that time, I had adopted to the style and was doing better with those bows than previously after I adjusted my tactics. To be very honest, I was unhappy when the changes were reverted. It took away my ability to shoot enemies sitting somewhere to which I had no direct Line Of Sight. (over rooftops, hills, or behind friendly infantry)
So I respectfully disagree with the assertion that this would be a nerf. Trust me. When you can stand behind your friendly infantry lobbing arrows into the enemy unharrassed, your scores will certainly improve. Currently archers must shoot through gaps (risking team hits) or find a different angle (which means the friendly infantry is no longer a buffer for you)
...
So it is intended to be a buff ? OK. Change the flight arch this way but keep the missile speed and damage. This way it might be a buff, although I would prefere the old mechanics. Even better would be to increase missile speed, not to native level of course, but higher than turtle speed at least.
-
The thing i don't like about this "suggestion", is because it will need to "relearn" the class all over again. Wich we already do everytime there was a patch change.
At the moment, with an horn bow, i already need to aim way higher than the target, wich leads to :"guessing where the target will move, guessing how long the arrow will fly before hitting the target".
I understand that you just don't want people sniping with hornbows (wich at the moment, only a few effectively do, mind you), but the reason i choose the hornbow over the longbow is for a different playstyle, wich is... fast aiming. I already find it easy enough to shoot down horses, and lowering missile speed will just INCREASE the damage i do to theses horses, wich will undoubtedly result in a damage nerf (ZOMG, my horse died in one hit ! I don't care if it was an headshot and i was galloping to him, no fair). So in the end, the horn bow will have less missile speed, and less base damage. Now tell me how that is not a nerf, but actually a buff.
And seriously, leaving the rusbow alone is... clearly not a good idea. You want to make bows different, then lower the speed rating of the rusbow wich is nearly as good as the hornbow, even though it's way easier to aim with it.
I personnaly think there's already enough difference between the bows that make people choose one over another.
Longbow : huge damage, slow reload speed. Used in ambush long range against non-moving targets, or in mid-range against melee.
Rusbow : Good damage. Good reload speed. Good accuracy. Best overall bow. imo
Hornbow : Decent damage. Good reload speed (slightly better than rusbow). Used against cavs, or archer duels. (not ambush mind you, what's the point of shooting one time if you know you need 3 arrows for that archer, and that he'll easily dodge thoses curved arrows you send him)
Tatar bow : Why would you use that if you're not an horse archer with 12 strength. Please enligthen me.
PS : If lowering missile speed is, in your way, considered as a buff, then please ask the devs to lower your bow to 8 missile speed = AWESOME HUGE BUFF. Or, just take a throwing weapon.
-
I think bigger differences between the bow would be a good change. If the reduced missile speed on the smaller bows makes too much of a nerf, one could rather increase their weapon speed slightly.
-
I don't consider the current "differences" to be a real difference. It is 1 slider bar. One side is faster, less damage and the other slower, more damage. It does not allow for true play style and only minor niche differences.
The Tatar bow (which by the way has a slower missile speed and has an even more pronounced arc than the Horn) shines as the bow for killing horses, head shots, and other ranged. Even at PD 7 (maximum damage for this bow), it is accurate enough to hit 2 out of 3 shots on infantry at MAX range and horses have to seek obstacles to put between you once you start focusing on them. Headshots to infantry can be done on purpose at short to mid-range. (meaning if you miss it is because you didn't aim properly, not that it went flying somewhere else inside the reticule). It is also fast enough on the draw at 170 WPF that you can use it in melee range with cavalry, dancing around the horses ducking their strikes, and putting arrow after arrow into their flanks. Drop the horse and step back as your melee rush to crush the fallen cavalry player. It also gives cavalry a much more limited range to close the distance to you before you can draw again and head shot the horse.
And just like you said, you have to relearn the class every patch anyhow. I don't see how this changes.
-
Maybe on the Tatar, no on the Long Bow. Reload is already way too long.
So you wanna totaly fuck smaller bows and buff your big bow now eh?
I dont like how you do buisness grand pappy your losing my vote if I can figure out how to reset it...
-
Other bow shoots much faster than Long bow which makes it useless, Soultion: Reduce speed of all other bows
-
To make things clear, why is this suggested again ? Is it supposed to be a buff or a nerf ? What exactly requires "balance" ? Is it another "that archer shot me not fair" suggestion ? I really cant see the intention here.
Like Bulzur said, who ever likes slower, more curving projectiles more, take throwing weapons, they have faster reload and do more damage anyway.
I can only repeat my post on page 1:
Arrows are slow enough already.
Too easy to dodge already.
Too weak already.
Too many teamhits due to slow arrows/spazzing teammates already.
You may get a very rare opportunity to lob arrows over cover but Im quite confident the disadvantages lead to a huge drop in efficiency. And the reason you mainly see horn or rus bows is not because there is to little diversity, the reason is that the other bows simply are insufficient in a way you may call them bugged. Why would I use a tartar bow that is accurate but requires me to put 9 arrows in someones body when the rus can do with some arrows less and is not significantly slower ? Why would I use a longbow ( other than the looks and style ) that is powerfull but needs to be drawn for half an eternity and even then cant shoot straight, thus being the most expensive of them all ?
The right thing to do IMO is to raise stats of these bows no one uses to a point where they actually get rid of their uselesness already, and then do the balancing.
My vote is no in any way.
If its intended to be a buff: I dont think it is, it just makes useless bows even more useless, vote is no.
If its intended to be a nerf: No furhter nerfes needed. The fact that the usual range QQ (which will happen even when archery is below average efficiency-wise) has not that much presence right now is a sign of archery being the opposite of OP. vote is no.
-
So you wanna totaly fuck smaller bows and buff your big bow now eh?
I dont like how you do buisness grand pappy your losing my vote if I can figure out how to reset it...
We've gone over this once already with the FIRST guy who was accusing me of Bow bias.
Okay everyone, once again, what bows does GrannPappy use?
I'll just mention the fact that GrannPappy owns and uses a Tatar Bow for accuracy and a Horn Bow for Power. I don't use any 2 slot bow at all currently even though I exceed the PD requirements for them.
I mention the fact that I am using the very bows you are complaining that I am calling to have missile speed lowered and do NOT use the bow that I suggest have an increase in speed. The Rus bow would remain unchanged because it is already where it should be. Nor have I modified my arrows. They are the standard model, not any texture pack at all. It is very relevant because you certainly appear to be trying to accuse me of bias towards the Rus for some reason.
Oh, well thank you Rumblood, I appreciate you pointing that out for him.
-
To make things clear, why is this suggested again ? Is it supposed to be a buff or a nerf ? What exactly requires "balance" ? Is it another "that archer shot me not fair" suggestion ? I really cant see the intention here.
And the reason you mainly see horn or rus bows is not because there is to little diversity, the reason is that the other bows simply are insufficient in a way you may call them bugged. Why would I use a tartar bow that is accurate but requires me to put 9 arrows in someones body when the rus can do with some arrows less and is not significantly slower ? Why would I use a longbow ( other than the looks and style ) that is powerfull but needs to be drawn for half an eternity and even then cant shoot straight, thus being the most expensive of them all ?
It is neither and you make the case for increasing bow diversity in your second paragraph :!: Thanks! :P
-
It is neither and you make the case for increasing bow diversity in your second paragraph :!: Thanks! :P
It is neither supposed to be a nerf nor a buff. ok.
Bow diversity is not given, as numerous nerfs have divided the bows into usefull and useless bows, which pretty much lets you decide between 2, maybe 3 bows if you want to fight instead of just trolling around.
If I get this right, your suggestion aims to bring back diversity among bows by ... further nerfing the bows that are useless already ?
Your OP claims that "The advantages gained by the slower missile speed DOES outweight ...", so you are aware that there ARE disadvantages, or to put it in other words, this is some kind of nerf. Of course you also point out the advantags but it seems not many people seem to agree with these, including me.
So again:
You suggest to weaken a vital part of archery, certainly decreasing its major effeiciency, thus claiming this not to be intended to act as a nerf.
Whats the purpose ?
-
Bow diversity it is then !
Then please do all the work and do another completely different bow, with the stats you want, and we'll balance that one.
Thomek already said it somewhere, diversity isn't good enough, sicne there's not 2 items at roughly the same price, in the same branch (2h, polearm, etc...) that do something totally different. Only way to add diversity is to "add" weapons. Wich is work.
Stop "playing" with the current bows for the sake of variety...
-
Leave rusbow unchanged hey, while nerfing tatar bow and horn bow, wich have already a pretty bad missile speed.
Slower missile speed is in no way an advantage, it means it's easier to dodge, more difficult to aim even at medium distance (i already have to do some terrible arcs) and seriously, it's impossible to play with the arc unless you're "cheating" and have modified the arrow's look by brightening it.
And seriously, i don't want to 1hit kill horses charging at me, i don't want my base damage to be nerfed again, just because of that missile speed nerf.
Definitely no.
Somebody said that already?
The Rus Bow and the Horn Bow have the same missile speed.
And imo for such a ''little'' bow it's too much compared to the bigger Rus Bow.
-
Your OP claims that "The advantages gained by the slower missile speed DOES outweight ...", so you are aware that there ARE disadvantages, or to put it in other words, this is some kind of nerf. Of course you also point out the advantags but it seems not many people seem to agree with these, including me.
No. Disadvantages that are balanced by advantages yield a net zero sum. It is not a nerf.
You seem to be struggling with the concept of "balance" here.
You claim that only 2 or 3 bows or worth using, and yet STILL need to ask me what the purpose would be? :rolleyes:
-
No. Disadvantages that are balanced by advantages yield a net zero sum. It is not a nerf.
You seem to be struggling with the concept of "balance" here.
You claim that only 2 or 3 bows or worth using, and yet STILL need to ask me what the purpose would be? :rolleyes:
Yes, actually I seem to struggle how these changes can be called balance. I struggle to understand how its not a nerf for me when my arrows fly even slower now. I hope you dont assume nerfing every usable bow to get them in line with those completely useless right now is a valid form of "balance".
This is like lowering the speed rating of every 2h weapon except the german and danish GS by 70, afterward complain that they are OP and everyone uses only those two 2h weapons and suggesting to nerf them to get them in line to be equally useless so people start using other 2h weapons than german and danish, which sadly seems to be the standard crpg nerf policy.
Maybe I didnt choose my words carfully enough so I will adress this once more:
You suggest this expecting the changes will lead to a lower popularity of the famous bows and spread diversity. The goal as I understand is to see more tartar bows, maybe more nomad bows, maybe even more longbows on the battlefield. As of now almost nobody uses short, normal, nomad and tartar bow (except HA). Although you want diversity, meaning you want exactly these bows to get more popular, the very thing you suggest is to nerf these bows ? Yes of course, the zero sum thing. Lobbing and arrow over cover with my xray vision once a year or the fact that bigger bows get buffed is sure enough reason to take a useless small bow, that is even slower and weaker now, only because you know that that longbow from that guy on the other side of the map got a speed buff.
I can absolutely see no buff for small bows here. And without such a buff nobody will consider to seriously use them. What I CAN see though is a nerf for small bows. Maybe you thought that im kidding when I asked what the purpose of this is, I was not. I still have not figured out how such a change would bring diversity, but I can imagine very well that things might get even worse.
Edit:
In case its not obviouse, yes, I like diversity too. Sure Id like to see more than 2 bows in the game, my only complaint is not to nerf the useless bows again but buffing them instead, which I doupt would be the case after such implementations.
-
Who uses Nomad and Tatar? Myself (foot archer) and Horse Archers.
Foot Archers - Lose a very slight amount of damage on normal shots. The "No dodge zone" is slightly shorter. In return I gain a large damage increase from speed bonus shots which includes everything from Charging horses, infantry running towards you, and firing from a higher elevation to a lower elevation. I gain the ability to shoot xbows ducking below a roofline to reload due to the arc over. I gain the ability to shoot cavalry after they pass behind a hilltop or friendly infantry. I can stand right behind my pikemen and lob arrows into the enemy unmolested. This is done every round as opposed to once a year as you exaggerate. You haven't had the opportunity to see how it works, so I understand that you don't understand that part.
Oh yes, and due to the arc of the incoming arrow, you get around 10-25% more headshots which gives, what, 10x damage? In fact, this is a buff to those bows when it is used properly as they will average greater damage over time.
Horse Archers - Gain everything that the Foot archer gets, except since they are always moving, they won't see even the slight damage loss on normal shots and the "No Dodge zone" isn't a concern. This is actually quite a buff to HA's.
Horn bow will lose some popularity as the arc won't be as pronounced as the Tatar (and its advantages aren't as pronounced) and its normal damage will be slightly reduced with the speed bonus not as pronounced. It will still be a fast bow with decent damage but it will no longer be one of a pair of bows being used.
Long Bow will gain popularity as its nearly straight line flight will make it superior to the Rus except for draw speed. The Rus will become the option for Medium range Damage bow.
I think that the more melee and cavalry realize what these changes will bring, they will rapidly begin clicking the NO option for this poll.
-
Somebody said that already?
The Rus Bow and the Horn Bow have the same missile speed.
And imo for such a ''little'' bow it's too much compared to the bigger Rus Bow.
It's definitely true "in paper", but doesn't feel like that at all. Maybe just an impression.
-
It's definitely true "in paper", but doesn't feel like that at all. Maybe just an impression.
If you are using it them both then it shouldn't be "an impression". You would be consistently aiming higher or lower than you would with the other bow.
-
If you are using it them both then it shouldn't be "an impression". You would be consistently aiming higher or lower than you would with the other bow.
Yet again, missile speed is indeed the same "on paper". So how is this damn curve influenced ? Wich stat ? An hidden one probably.
And, it's been a while since i used the rusbow, so... i forgot the feeling. :oops:
On another note, archery is bad for the eyes. Having to look very carefully at your screen to look where your arrow is "actually" landing, to know if you have to aim higher or note. Funny thing, sometimes, i have the time to release a second arrow before hearing the caracterised "thud" when the first one hit something.
Other funny thing, sometimes my arrow fly straight through a body.
Ah, the archer's life... if this crafting wasn't there, i'd just go 2h already...
-
Well archery was changed and they went a different direction. Testing for what changed and how it effects everything.
Right now my guess would be:
Increased missile speed - Arrows fly in more of a straight line
Increased Air resistance - While initially flying faster, they don't seem to fly quite as far. Arrows now have a very unnatural arc to them. They fly very straight for 90% of their distance, then swoop to the ground.
Tatar Bow with PD 8 is one-shotting both light armored players and horses...
-
Bringing this back. I let it drop after the patch for awhile to see how the new balance is working.
It isn't.
Dev's this is how bow balance needs to be. With actual reasons to use the different ones. Right now there is no style difference with bows that are used, and those are so far superior to the others (*cough Longbow) that there is no reason to use anything but the favored 2 (3 I like my Tatar even if others don't).
If air resistance was increased last patch (as I suspect from the unnatural arc on the arrows now), then reduce it back again.
-
Your right again Grandpappy!
Longbow needs speed nerf since its sooo accurate! Arrows speed is fine! Its still gotta be competitive after all.
Perhaps increase rus bow dmg a bit to make it better than horn bow and give tartars a little reload speed since they are just that weak!