cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Frankysan on March 07, 2012, 04:53:13 pm

Title: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Frankysan on March 07, 2012, 04:53:13 pm
I would like to know why this IWINBUTTON is still in the game , so not only the good cav, but also the crappy ones can dominate ?
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on March 07, 2012, 05:04:35 pm
bullshit.

Getting couched from behind and in general can be very frustrating and I hate it very much each time it happens. Nonetheless it is in no way an I-win-button and if you see someone with a couched lance you can easily dodge and with good movement even kill/hurt most doing it. Also you can avoid getting in a spot where cav can couch you. All in all it ads more varity and depth to the game and should stay of course.

The only thing/tweak I could imagine was that couching becomes no longer stoppable. Means if you hit x you cannot abort couch before it stops itself or you get too slow. This would probably cause a lot of TKs at first but would be also nice because you'd have to be really sure if you wanna use it in your current situation.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on March 07, 2012, 05:56:51 pm
Let's just toss out the great lance then. The other lances are rarely couched except to take out very heavy targets anyway.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Okkam on March 07, 2012, 06:03:41 pm
Quote from: The_Bloody_Nine on March 07, 2012, 05:04:35 pm
bullshit.

Getting couched from behind and in general can be very frustrating and I hate it very much each time it happens. Nonetheless it is in no way an I-win-button and if you see someone with a couched lance you can easily dodge and with good movement even kill/hurt most doing it. Also you can avoid getting in a spot where cav can couch you. All in all it ads more varity and depth to the game and should stay of course.

The only thing/tweak I could imagine was that couching becomes no longer stoppable. Means if you hit x you cannot abort couch before it stops itself or you get too slow. This would probably cause a lot of TKs at first but would be also nice because you'd have to be really sure if you wanna use it in your current situation.

50% chance to broke lance with couche will work even better. (with 20% chance to broke at minimal couchable speed and 100% at maximum horse speed)
1 slot for heavy lance in this case ofc.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on March 07, 2012, 06:08:01 pm
So, great lance never breaks. Otherwise its a waste, because poke poke lance range and ability to one shot >= great lance couch.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Rumblood on March 07, 2012, 11:34:42 pm
Really? I mean really? You can't manage to avoid a a guy who has to achieve a set speed before the thing will couch, and then it isn't easy to hit an aware target. I watch them come, sidestep and shoot them in the face.

I guess this is a L2P post  :P
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 12:03:11 am
1) Buff Great Lance.
2) Nerf couching with Heavy Lance:
- double the speed needed to be in couching mode when using HL
- shorten the duration (not sure if possible?)
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Frankysan on March 08, 2012, 03:32:53 am
Quote from: Rumblood on March 07, 2012, 11:34:42 pm
Really? I mean really? You can't manage to avoid a a guy who has to achieve a set speed before the thing will couch, and then it isn't easy to hit an aware target. I watch them come, sidestep and shoot them in the face.

I guess this is a L2P post  :P
sorry but i bet you are a lancer lol. my point is the heavy lance is a powerfull weapon on horseback, and doesn't need any unblockable lame onehitting move to be viable.
your L2P is kinda tard; instead  give us a good reason why couch should stay on heavy lance. Looks totally unnecessary to me, everyone realizes  is a shortcut to mastering the timing of lance stab, and atm one of the plagues of this mod is exactly cavalry taking NO SKILLS AT ALL to play;maybe taking off the picture the free kills from this lame move would be a good start.

on the great lance is fine i guess, so you can lol at noob lancer at first sight when you see one..
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: TurmoilTom on March 08, 2012, 03:46:40 am
Quote from: FranI love youan on March 08, 2012, 03:32:53 am
sorry but i bet you are a lancer lol. my point is the heavy lance is a powerfull weapon on horseback, and doesn't need any unblockable lame onehitting move to be viable.
your L2P is kinda tard; instead  give us a good reason why couch should stay on heavy lance. Looks totally unnecessary to me, everyone realizes  is a shortcut to mastering the timing of lance stab, and atm one of the plagues of this mod is exactly cavalry taking NO SKILLS AT ALL to play;maybe taking off the picture the free kills from this lame move would be a good start.

on the great lance is fine i guess, so you can lol at noob lancer at first sight when you see one..

Rumblood's an archer. Couched lances *are* blockable. You just need a shield. Funny thing is that you don't need to block them if you just press a movement button. That's why I only couched idle dudes at enemy spawn. I'm not cav anymore, though. You may find this hard to believe, but I found it more difficult than 2h. Now I'm a 2h again. I love my ezmodo 2h.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 08, 2012, 03:47:21 am
Quote from: FranI love youan on March 08, 2012, 03:32:53 am
(click to show/hide)
Someone clearly has never tried to play as cavalry :mrgreen:. Couching isn't really that simple and it has big weaknesses. Therefore it has to be used only in special occations. Actually hitting someone with couched lance is a bit tricky and you have to train good amount of time to use it effectively. Most of infantry can dodge it if they are aware. I use it basically only against shielders. Sometimes against noob archers who are not seeing it coming. That is fun, but for experienced player it is really easy to dodge couched lance and counterattack.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Gnjus on March 08, 2012, 09:28:15 am
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Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Wookimonsta on March 08, 2012, 10:16:59 am
Quote from: Okkam on March 07, 2012, 06:03:41 pm
50% chance to broke lance with couche will work even better. (with 20% chance to broke at minimal couchable speed and 100% at maximum horse speed)
1 slot for heavy lance in this case ofc.

thats fine, of course to balance it, lets make it so horsebump has a 50% chance to break your legs. (with 20% chance to broke at minimal couchable speed and 100% at maximum horse speed)

Not for balance of course, I just want to see people with broken legs crawling around the battlefield, trying to fight each other.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: obitus on March 08, 2012, 10:30:34 am
if you honestly have trouble getting couched you need to

-move up a 20 degree incline, or
-stand by or on obstacles
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Okkam on March 08, 2012, 11:14:47 am
Quote from: Wookimonsta on March 08, 2012, 10:16:59 am
thats fine, of course to balance it, lets make it so horsebump has a 50% chance to break your legs. (with 20% chance to broke at minimal couchable speed and 100% at maximum horse speed)

Not for balance of course, I just want to see people with broken legs crawling around the battlefield, trying to fight each other.

Ok. Also let's make it so every collision of your horse with tree, wall, stone, another horse will broke your horse's legs and neck. I just want to see whining horseman without their armored mountainbikes.

Have you ever seen a horse IRL? Collision with galloping horse will broke your ribs, or hands, but chance to broke leg is really tiny.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Casimir on March 08, 2012, 11:43:59 am
A warhorse is purposefully bred to be bigger and stronger than an average horse, so that its physical impact is more devestatinjg.

If one of those ran into you, im fairly sure teh chance of death or serious injury would be fairly high, and thats without any form of armor to add to their mass.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Cup1d on March 08, 2012, 11:47:30 am
Quote from: Casimir on March 08, 2012, 11:43:59 am
A warhorse is purposefully bred to be bigger and stronger than an average horse, so that its physical impact is more devestatinjg.

If one of those ran into you, im fairly sure teh chance of death or serious injury would be fairly high, and thats without any form of armor to add to their mass.

Warhorse already take half of your health, if you do not have enough armor. And if you are peasant collision with galloping warhorse can kill you with one impact.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Smoothrich on March 08, 2012, 11:53:02 am
Couching is an excellent tool, and helps make the heavy lance worth its 10k price, on top of horse, sidearm, shield, and armor.  Its not an instant win button.  I suggest you try cav yourself, because its really not that easy, unless they are totally unaware.  Play cav and watch how good players counter you, then do it yourself when you're infantry.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Vibe on March 08, 2012, 12:26:11 pm
Why are there weapons that can kill in this game?!??!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Lordark on March 08, 2012, 12:32:45 pm
OP needs 2 learn 2 dodge cavbetter and pay attention moar


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrLLBo6zFAA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrLLBo6zFAA&feature=related)


also , Fus ro dah
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: cmp on March 08, 2012, 01:09:19 pm
Quote from: Vibe on March 08, 2012, 12:26:11 pm
Why are there weapons that can kill in this game?!??!?!?!?!?

Good point, removed in next patch. In a world of violence like ours we certainly don't need more.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Duncdar on March 08, 2012, 05:17:32 pm
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 08, 2012, 01:09:19 pm
Good point, removed in next patch. In a world of violence like ours we certainly don't need more.
Finally! The devs are implementing a good idea!
We also need to remove the ability to make fierce warcries as they provide a scary and hostile environment.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 08, 2012, 05:23:16 pm
The only time I'm ever able to couch someone is if they are either not looking, or are previously occupied (read "not looking").

The only things I generally couch are other horses (usually heavy horses, and only if I can t-bone them, or come slightly from behind so they can't stab at me), and heavy infantry.  I go for the couch on them because they are a threat to my own infantry, and stabbing most likely won't kill them.  Lots of times when I couch I don't even get a kill, just does a lot of damage.

Most people never have an issue with my couch if they are paying attention.  If they are a slow enough class where they can't get out of the way then they usually try to move one direction, and when I get close they'll jump up in the other direction (and usually end up right in front of my horses head, where I can't couch). 

I'd agree with most of the comments here, learn to play instead of whining to the dev's to overcome your lack of tactical thinking.  Every class and equipment has a counter to it's strengths.  Everything has weaknesses, find them, exploit them.  That's the solution, the solution isn't to cry on the forums and let everyone know how shitty you are.

There's a pretty good saying you should take to heart "Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove any doubts".
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: dodnet on March 08, 2012, 06:02:36 pm
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 08, 2012, 01:09:19 pm
Good point, removed in next patch. In a world of violence like ours we certainly don't need more.

Yeah, make it cRP(acifist)G!
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: RandomDude on March 08, 2012, 06:20:26 pm
The question shouldnt be "Why are couched lances still in this game?" but "Why cant flamberge be couchable by running forward with thrust held down?"
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 10:26:21 pm
Quote from: Smoothrich on March 08, 2012, 11:53:02 am
Couching is an excellent tool, and helps make the heavy lance worth its 10k price

10K is quite cheap for top tier weapon. Also Heavy Lance is the only weapon that is actually usable in more situations than runner-up in that category, Danish GS. You can stab with it (headhit is instakill in most cases), you can couch it, it's decent when used as pike and you can even play as a hoplite using HL. They should also make throwing weapon out of it...

It should cost 50K, that's how good it is.

Danish is overused but I doubt that more than 50% 2H swordsmen use it. More than 80% lancers use Heavy Lance :!:

You should be glad that Thomek only open buff/nerf threads when butthurt, otherwise there would be nerf HL thread instead of nerf Tor/Cha.. I mean nerf GLA/DGS.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 08, 2012, 10:47:48 pm
Quote from: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 10:26:21 pm
(click to show/hide)
Another butthurt infantry appears. Play hoplite with HL? HAHAHAHAHA! You must be out of your mind... Seriously? The "hoplites" you see are dehorsed horsemen with 99% possibility. It is not a viable infantry weapon by any means due to it's slowness.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 10:58:46 pm
It's not slow if you lawlpike with it. Hold your weapon. wait for your enemy to strike, release and hit him first. I'm pretty sure that even 50 speed pike can pull that off, if there was such weapon.

Its speed is between LS and Pike. Its a lot shorter than both but it is usable and very decent when on foot.
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 08, 2012, 11:02:23 pm
Quote from: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 10:26:21 pm
They should also make throwing weapon out of it...
*cough* 1+ throwing lance *cough*  :mrgreen:
I got one btw.
Cool right?
Leshma you wanna buy it?
Anywayz, RON PAUL FOR PRES! All dem haterz on EU_1 can go fuck themselves!
Title: Re: Why Couched Lances Are Still In This Game.
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 08, 2012, 11:02:38 pm
Quote from: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 10:58:46 pm
It's not slow if you lawlpike with it. Hold your weapon. wait for your enemy to strike, release and hit him first. I'm pretty sure that even 50 speed pike can pull that off, if there was such weapon.

Its speed is between LS and Pike. Its a lot shorter than both but it is usable and very decent when on foot.
It is ok on foot if you happen to be dehorsed horseman without sideweapon... Otherwise I would never ever use it as a footsoldier. Light Lance is way better for infantry purposes and I have used it with my hoplite...