cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Beefymongoose on March 01, 2012, 11:44:29 pm
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These two weapons are extremely overpowered. They can stab faster then you can even make the block animation and just do ridiculous amount of damage. The Masterwork Awlpike does 36 pierce and one shots practically anyone not wearing heavy armor. Even if you block their attack they can still stab at you again before you can attack them. Its faster then most polearms at 92 speed and does enough damage to one shot people... This weapon needs some drastic fixes.
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They can stab faster then you can even make the block animation
No
and just do ridiculous amount of damage.
Yes, they deal good damage but 2 attacking directions.
Even if you block their attack they can still stab at you again before you can attack them.
Only if you fail.
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2 attack directions. Overhead isn't great. You always have a chance to block them, unless they hit you and polestagger you until dead. Don't fight an awlpike 1vs1 unless your SURE you wont get hit.
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Saying they're fair as long as you don't get in a 1v1 fight is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard... no weapon should be so good you can't fight it by yourself and the fact that it attacks 2 directions doesn't even matter because they can hit you so fast you can't ever recover from the polestun. If you get hit once your already dead because they'll just hit you again and again except not even because it kills everything in 1-2 hits. I use a polearm that only swings 2 directions as well its not that big of a disadvantage. But the fact that they can just sit there and spam stabs and no one can do anything about it is just ridiculous.
Maybe if polestun was also affected by how much strength you had instead of just weight it would solve the problem of agility builds putting you in a state that you can't do anything.
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In situations like that, I just...
...block down.
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Only if you fail.
No, really, I don't think you now what polestagger is. Polestagger is if you get HIT (ie; not blocked) and your character has a 50% chance to have a slightly increased stagger duration that can MAYBE enable you to get hit by a second attack before you can block.
Also, if you block an enemy's thrust, they are thrust-stunned. They can not attack again for a HUGE delay compared to other attack directions such as swings. So much so, that you can often overhead an enemy before they can even block, since they are stunned for so long.
<--- CanYouBlockDown
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Yeah Gurnisson, you just got told.
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Yeah Gurnisson, you just got told.
I was quoting gurnisson to quote him, not to reply to him.
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Marathon, I know what polestagger is, but he said you can't attack back if you block his first attack. It's not like you will polestagger anyone if he blocks the attack, the lawlpiker will only get thruststunned.
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Marathon, I know what polestagger is, but he said you can't attack back if you block his first attack. It's not like you will polestagger anyone if he blocks the attack, the lawlpiker will only get thruststunned.
I know you know. I was quoting gurnisson to quote him, not to reply to him.
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Oh, my mistake then. I'll read all replies before posting next time :x
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Chase explained this problem very well. Thing is that all weapons strike very fast when released after attack is held for some time (that's what you call chambered weapon). That's why we feint, shielders get hit through their blocks (nabs).
For most weapons that takes time. When it comes to pikes you can do that before your opponent can strike two times in a row, because pole thrust animation is so fast. With other weapons you can't do that all the time.
Lawlpiking is a serious problem because:
- it's deadly (damage is epic)
- in most cases you can do it before your enemy (with slower weapon) can strike two times
- hitbox of pikes is broken which allows you to negate all footwork your enemy does, just stab randomly when enemy is trying to get behind you, chances are high that you'll hit him
- it's easy to block other weapons which means you'll rarely get hit (mod is so slow and everyone can block slower weapons)
- enemy can't do feint tricks of you because you strike faster than him if he tries
- it's easier for you to kick him, then it is to him to kick you
Lawlpiker with STR build and a lot of armor is pain in the ass to duel. You have to hit him multiple times, you rarely get the chance to spam him to the death like you can other STR builds using different weapons. He hits you once and most of your HP is gone, if he stagger you, it's game over.
Solution for lawlpikers who use shorter pikes: use a greatsword and try to out stab the bastard. You'll need like 5 or more successful hits for someone with 70 and more HP and loomed armor. If you don't fuck up. If you do, he'll stab you and almost kill you.
Maybe things are different for some of you with better connections but this is how I see average lawlpiker. Unlike most swordsmen (who use euro swords not those asian spammy curved blades) which I can fight against very well, people with pikes are something I simply avoid unless it's total noob behind the pike.
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I just run away, and then they never stab me!
also, blocking down beats them
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Even if you block their attack they can still stab at you again before you can attack them.
This is true actually in quite a lot of cases. Speaking out of experience with the ashwood pike though, which is just a tad bit faster.
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This is true actually in quite a lot of cases. Speaking out of experience with the ashwood pike though, which is just a tad bit faster.
maybe if you hesitate or delay overhead swing on them.
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Marathon i'm guessing you're an agility build?
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Marathon i'm guessing you're an agility build?
Cyclopsided was 30/9 Spearman, just respecced to 21/18 thrower/1h
Brunchlady ---> I respecced to 33/6 Pikeman, @lvl 27 (to eventually be 33/12) {{since cycl is no longer strength build.
CanYouBlockDown : 12/30 Agi build. This character dies to thrust stun all day every day I play it, since it won't be able to block return hits when stunned. Lowest KDR with this of all my chars (but so fun!)
Build doesn't matter much. Are you saying agi builds really attack any faster or are stunned for less durations? they aren't.
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Build doesn't matter much. Are you saying agi builds really attack any faster or are stunned for less durations? they aren't.
I think you answered I question I've had for a while. Recently, I've been getting hit on most of my thrust stuns when I use any type of speary polearms. The only other time I remember that happening was when I was using a bill, a few gens ago. That time, I had roughly 120wpf, this time I have 84. So you're saying that wpf does not affect recovery time?
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biggest problem besides the obviously op DMG on of the long awlpike is the instantaneous stab for a supposedly slow weapon & ability to wiggle
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I think you answered I question I've had for a while. Recently, I've been getting hit on most of my thrust stuns when I use any type of speary polearms. The only other time I remember that happening was when I was using a bill, a few gens ago. That time, I had roughly 120wpf, this time I have 84. So you're saying that wpf does not affect recovery time?
There is no such thing in game code. If there was, Paul would already post it several times to show me true power of agility builds.
When it comes to melee weapons, weapon proficiency points (wpp) give you slightly faster weapon speed and solid damage boost (although it can't compare with damage boost you get from power strike).
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biggest problem besides the obviously op DMG on of the long awlpike is the instantaneous stab for a supposedly slow weapon & ability to wiggle
Not every strike is instant. Lalwpiking is instant and gives that huge damage boost because of both speed bonus and the fact that you held your weapon for some time. Just spamming pikes isn't that much of an issue.
I do understand that some pikemen feel special because they are using weapon which has one or two attack directions. It's true that having four attack directions gives you more options but also there is bigger chance for fuck-up. With just one attack direction and one viable dueling technique (lawlpiking) you really can't make as much mistakes as you can with four directional weapons. It lacks creativity though and that's the main reason why I'm swordsman and not pikeman.
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With my MW warspear i pretty much never succeed in getting another thrust in after being blocked, and warspear is one of the faster spears and i have 160 wpf in polearms. Unless the opponent has like 150 ping it is not possible.
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I think you answered I question I've had for a while. Recently, I've been getting hit on most of my thrust stuns when I use any type of speary polearms. The only other time I remember that happening was when I was using a bill, a few gens ago. That time, I had roughly 120wpf, this time I have 84. So you're saying that wpf does not affect recovery time?
WPF can give a very slight increase in effective weapon speed, which can very slightly decrease the time the stun animation takes place. Weapon speed is what really matters. (and oh god, unbalanced weapons have longer stun durations)
*in addition: 100 effective wpf = Using the weapon AS STATS LIST IT. If you have less, it's a malus. If you have more, you benefit. if you want to learn more about wpf --> go to WaltF4's threads. and read.
The faster the weapon speed, the faster it will recover from a stun to be able to block an incoming attack. There are set block-stuns for every weapon type/swing direction. A slower weapon speed takes longer to execute stun animation.
You can see all these values in actions.txt
example: polearms block-stuns with stun delay (in ms) highlighted.
blocked_slashright_staff 1678770176 35651599 1 0.300000
blocked_slashleft_staff 1678770176 35651599 1 0.350000
blocked_thrust_staff 1678770176 35651599 1 0.650000
blocked_overswing_staff 0 35651599 1 0.300000
There is no such thing in game code. If there was, Paul would already post it several times to show me true power of agility builds.
When it comes to melee weapons, weapon proficiency points (wpp) give you slightly faster weapon speed and solid damage boost (although it can't compare with damage boost you get from power strike).
They have plenty of times, and I just kind of did too.
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Actually I feel that the limited attack directions are hardly a negative when fighting the majority of players. All you need is for them to screw up and you can hit them, the same thing happens when you have a 4 direction weapon. If they didn't screw up in the first place they would block it. The real advantage is that once you pull the spear back the time it takes to hit someone is nearly instant compared to a pulled back 2h or 1h.
When my ping is hovering under 20 I can easily punish the smallest hesitation in striking back at me with a quick stab since I was already pulling my weapon back for another stab in anticipation. The best thing is when someone is using a lighter weapon, they don't even have a chance with the weapon stuns and polestagger from a heavy spear.
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one way to counter a guy with a long awlpike: just stab him with you ridiculously sword and than outspam him. there is no way that the 185 length long alwpike has a longer reach than your over 9000 lolstab. oh and if the awlpiker stabs and you block down, the awlpiker gets a little delay on his next block/swing, when the awlpiker has little wpf, this is a instakill.
about the normal alwpike im not so sure, because i dont play it. i also dont like it, i need the longer reach of the long alwpike. for the normal alwpike, most people will also use a agi build, wich is actually the same as using a agibuild on a fast twohander (actually agiwhore spamtana is worse imo)
cry out really hard if you disagree.
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Awlpikes and other weapons should be anti armor specialist weapon basically tincan killers. Problem is that we had only 3 damage types and almost all weapon deal pierce damage on thrust. Blunt and pierce are too similar effectively making medium armor only for cut protection. Tincan killer weapon should be slower and do rather medium damage but with almost no armor damage reduction.
About Op of awlpikes I think they were nerfed few times. But if you want to see true OP just look on Kinngrims flesh tearer its ideal example how antiarmor specialist weapon should not look like.
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I dun get these necromancers....... :D
Its a weird fetish...