cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Vanguard Warden on March 02, 2011, 10:18:58 pm

Title: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Vanguard Warden on March 02, 2011, 10:18:58 pm
EDIT: Version 1.1 out, fixed some issues with the original release.

Details can be a bit hard to make out in the shots I took, so I'll try to cover most of it. There are three entrances to the inner ward where the capture flag is; a sally port door on top of some narrow stairs west of the keep, a gate-less gatehouse to the northeast of the keep and a siege ladder into the hole in the southeast wall on the second floor of the keep. The outer ward has a sally port door to the southeast on top of the plateau with stairs leading up the cliff-side, a siege ramp on the wall to the south, a ladder west of the southern gatehouse and another ladder on the wall short wall segment to the west. The inner walls can only be reached through the keep and the stairs near the inner gatehouse and are separated from the external walls, which have exposed stairs to the east and west ends, and internal stairs in the external gatehouse and eastern tower. The edges of the map are pretty close, so the entire area north of the castle is out of bounds. The attackers spawn behind the siege walls all over the southern field.

Overview:
(click to show/hide)

Eastern Approach:
(click to show/hide)

Inside the Walls (West):
(click to show/hide)

Inside the Walls (East):
(click to show/hide)

Flag:
(click to show/hide)

Download: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2623

Version Changes:
1.1:
Moved around spawns. No one should be spawning on cliffs anymore.
Decoration pass. Everything should be much 'prettier'.
Lowered the house next to the main gatehouse to address concerns.
Swapped the door in the main gatehouse. Defenders can open it from both directions, attackers can't open it at all.
Added a destructible gate to the inner gatehouse.
Added stairs to battlements in the inner courtyard near the inner gatehouse.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: cmp on March 03, 2011, 11:45:16 pm
It's a bit empty if you ask me... maybe add a few props (carts, wooden logs...) inside the castle?
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Salminen on March 04, 2011, 05:15:24 pm
I like your idea about the stairs leading to the breakable door, it kind of gives two chokes for the defenders to use. Maybe a little more props inside the walls like cmp said, but other than that it looks fine. Propably same thing as with most siege maps though: Too few players = really hard to defend. Not like a mapmaker can really balance that though, just something i always feel about sieges :) Can't say anything meaningful about balance.

Oh, right: Where are the spawns placed? Problem with a lot of the siege maps are that defenders spawn at the front walls or right at the flags which makes it suck for everyone. If you spawn at front walls, attackers get enemies spawned behind their backs and defenders have a hard time getting to defend the flag, if right at the flag, well, impossible to capture.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Merten on March 04, 2011, 07:07:28 pm
I like it, great open spaces ...
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Vanguard Warden on March 09, 2011, 07:15:46 am
I tried to avoid the spawn problems you described, all of the spawns are placed generally around the path of the inner wall and inside the keep, so there's an adequate distance to both the flag and the external walls. You can get to pretty much any part of the castle from inside the keep quickly with it positioned in the middle of everything. The screenshots make it look emptier than it does from the ground, but I'll definitely get around to doing another decoration pass on it.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Lansamur on March 09, 2011, 09:11:05 am
I like it the way it is. Sometimes less is more, which fits to this layout of the castle.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Everkistus on March 23, 2011, 03:20:27 pm
Added it to Eu 5 and Eu 6 map rotation. Thanks for the map.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Leiknir on March 23, 2011, 11:47:03 pm
Had one round so far, ended 2:3 (nothing to say yet, as defenders didnt know the map yet, I predict it to be hard to take with players that know the map)

First off, attacker spawn is not optimal. Some spawns are even down in the water, sucks pretty hard if you need to climb out of there. I suggest moving the spawning area to the other side of the river. Doing so will bring more focus on the siege tower area, leading to more pressure on that part of the map, to balance it out, I suggest adding a gate to the second gatehouse (breakable, or normal, not sure what fits better). As this takes away pressure from the right side, that now is the "backside", you should make this path more attractive. Lower that one house, so you can get down easy without getting the slowdown from the roof, and add stairs to flag area on the walls on the far right. (They still need to get down trough the keep, but can ninja 2nd gate fast)
Also, the doors you used can only be opend from the inside. They work as sally doors, but not as internal doors where defenders need to walk around. You should change them to some other doors.
About the visuals: as you mixed 2 castle sets, some stuff looks quite ugly, especially the 2 round towers behind the flag. Either hide it with some unrelated buildings infront of it, or change towers/walls.

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Spawns:
(click to show/hide)

Doors:
(click to show/hide)

Stuff to change with spawn change:
(click to show/hide)

the visuals:
(click to show/hide)

Also, add some unrelated houses inside of the castle, a road texture connecting those houses and a bush here and there. Will make it more intresting, as it is pretty empty right now
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: zagibu on March 24, 2011, 07:48:29 pm
Concerning spawns, it's important to know that ALL ATTACKERS spawn at spawnpoint 32 at the beginning of the round (like in battle mode). Another important thing is to also calculate enough space around the rest of the spawnpoints (don't place them directly in corners, etc.), since sometimes multiple ppl are spawning at one spawnpoint, pushing each other away (and sometimes off a wall or cliff, if the spawnpoint is too close). This happens before the players can actually react, and it can look as if they had spawned in free fall.

Also, it can't be repeated enough times: siege spawnpoints ARE NOT ORDERED. It's not guaranteed that defenders spawn at 0-31 and attackers at 32-63, as a complicated distance and hostility system determines spawn locations. You can easily verify this by placing spawnpoint 2 or so close to 32, and it will be used for attackers and never for defenders, because spawnpoint 32 is used as the location for "attacker base". What I'm not sure about is whether the flag or spawnpoint 0 counts as "defender base".
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Kherr on March 24, 2011, 09:49:06 pm
My Warband crashes always if the system switches to the map... so before first round starts :-(

But the map itself is quite good... like it.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Leiknir on March 24, 2011, 10:12:29 pm
Quote from: Kherr on March 24, 2011, 09:49:06 pm
My Warband crashes always if the system switches to the map... so before first round starts :-(

But the map itself is quite good... like it.

Its the server acting up after new maps were added, not the map
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Kherr on March 24, 2011, 10:53:31 pm
Quote from: Leiknir on March 24, 2011, 10:12:29 pm
Its the server acting up after new maps were added, not the map
Hm... happened 2 or 3 times now for me. On server EU 5 and EU 6.
Good idead... will check that.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Everkistus on March 27, 2011, 07:40:10 pm
This map is taken off rotation for now Scrap that, we need more siege maps. I trust the maker wants to think about the feedback he got about it :)

I'll add it again when you fix the broken things in the map.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Vanguard Warden on March 28, 2011, 09:11:19 pm
Sorry about not responding sooner, I've been busy with some other stuff recently. The spawns are definitely not supposed to be doing that, I'll clear them from that side of the river if they're causing problems. Regarding the balance concerns, the door atop the stairs leading from the outer keep area to the flag was meant to be difficult to take as it's so close to the front gate. If removing the door won't make it a priority entry for the attackers over all others, I'll definitely remove it.

I'll get working on the changes now, and re-upload shortly.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Leiknir on March 28, 2011, 09:29:50 pm
Nono, don't remove the doors. Replace them with other doors. Your doors can only be opend from the inside, by both teams. I think the doors that can be opened by only defenders and from all sides would be more fitting, atleast at the gate tower. (castle_f_door or something like that, not sure right now)
Title: Re: Siege Map: Citadel
Post by: Vanguard Warden on March 28, 2011, 10:01:53 pm
I was unaware that there were doors that could only be opened by defenders, else I'd have used them. I tested a bunch, and they were all team-neutral. I'll test the particular doors you mentioned.

The one-way doors opened by either team do allow for the attackers to open the doors for their allies after they've gotten in though, which is neat mechanic.

EDIT: Well hot damn, that's neat, they do. The door in the gatehouse has been replaced. The door to the flag area I'll leave the way it is until some real matches can be played. The OP has been updated with the revised files/screenshots.

EDIT EDIT: Finally figured out that not having all 62 entry points placed makes the game just spawn you wherever the hell it wants, placed entry points be damned. After extensive respawning I haven't had any trouble yet.