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cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: ponyboy on February 23, 2012, 01:07:37 am

Title: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: ponyboy on February 23, 2012, 01:07:37 am

So the build I'm aiming for right now has 0wm, leaving me with 111wpf in 1hand and 6 power strike with a MW italian sword.

Im going for:

18/21
6if
6ps
4shield
7ath
111wpf 1hand

Heres the post discussing builds:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,25377.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,25377.0.html)

But here I'm just wondering if anyone has actually tried a shielder build with just 111wpf in 1hand? Is this too slow to be worth it, or is it feasible? It seems fairly slow right now at 105wpf at lvl 27, but that might just be that im transitioning from a military pick to an italian sword. But lewp's testing suggests its only like 2% difference in speed, but has anyone tried this?

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Zerran on February 23, 2012, 01:19:48 am

My last gen I used a 1H as a sidearm for my pike. Only had 50 wpf and I could outspam people who had poor footwork easily. WPF does very very little to speed. tbh I think most of it is just mental, you put in wpf and think you're going to be faster so it seems faster, despite it only being a 3-6% difference.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Corwin on February 23, 2012, 01:24:40 am

I don't know why, but I must give advice - don't put 6 to IF, put 6 to shield. There is a noticeable difference between 4 and 6 shield.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: ponyboy on February 23, 2012, 01:30:34 am

I normally would agree regarding the shield, but currently I have a masterpiece white heavy norman shield, which with 4 shield skill almost never seems to break. That thing is a beast.

So assuming the speed difference is mostly in the head, why am I performing not so well with 6ps and a mw italian, and was doing much better when I had my mw military pick just yesterday (I just traded)? Any tips for using this weap I might not know? Obviously in general its less effective against tin cans, but outside of that (unless you have a tip for making an italian work against tincans too).

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Malaclypse on February 23, 2012, 01:58:16 am

With 6 PS you'll have more success with a Pierce or Blunt weapon. I never used 1hand proficiency with my Iberian Mace when I was using it as a sidearm as an Arbalest user, and had no issues there for speed. In general I don't like using any 1hand with a shield regardless of proficiency invested, but I imagine 111 is plenty as long as you're not wearing extremely heavy armor to reduce it. Also, why have 21 Agility if no Agility based skill is at 7?

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Stabby_Dave on February 23, 2012, 02:12:04 am

Yea go 21/18 and switch 1 IF point to PS. With a 21/15 build last gen I had no problem damaging most people and only really bounced off heavy strength tin cans and even then it didnt happen often. That said, I did use a MW Arabian Cav Sword which is pretty high damage.

With a 0wpf build dont try to spam or feint too much. Youre much better off using holds and footwork.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Mlekce on February 23, 2012, 02:56:29 am

dude i have now 124 points and i am lvl 22,and i have balanced scimitar. I suck so hard. other ppl with non loomed items outspam me. Not to mention agi whores,and big wpf 2h,polearms,and other scum. Everyone have lots,and lots of wpf. You need to get more or evryone will be second faster then ur weapon.
You can maybie compensate it with more then 6 athl but below that you are going to be spammed all time.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: rustyspoon on February 23, 2012, 02:58:53 am

I have 0 WM this gen and it's great. I can still outspam people with my MW Italian all day long.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: ponyboy on February 23, 2012, 03:33:29 am

I meant 7 athletics. Generally my stance has been that you need at least 7ps to do well with a cut damage 1hander aside from a military cleaver or axe, but I have seen several players be very successful with 6ps and italian swords, so it is doable.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Uumdi on February 23, 2012, 03:47:13 am

24/15 is a monstrous shield build too, if you're gonna be in the front lines. Not AS much room for solo heroics as the agi shielder builds, but with a MW Italian you'll wreck with 8 PS.

Comes out to 6 IF / 8 PS / 4 shield / 5 athletics still i do believe.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Vodner on February 23, 2012, 04:54:11 am

Quote from: Uumdi on February 23, 2012, 03:47:13 am

24/15 is a monstrous shield build too, if you're gonna be in the front lines. Not AS much room for solo heroics as the agi shielder builds, but with a MW Italian you'll wreck with 8 PS.

Comes out to 6 IF / 8 PS / 4 shield / 5 athletics still i do believe.

24/15 might be a better build for large battle servers, simply because you don't have room to maximize your speed bonus in tight-quarters group combat (you'll get in the way of teammates, and expose yourself to enemy attacks).

Unless you use a cleaver / ACS, cut swings from a stationary position on one-handers don't hit that hard with 6 PS.

18/21 shines when you have relatively few enemies (you can get behind them and stun/kill them while they're engaged with teammates), or in loosely-knit fights (where you can dash from fight to fight, helping teammates double-team enemies as needed).

Quote

dude i have now 124 points and i am lvl 22,and i have balanced scimitar. I suck so hard. other ppl with non loomed items outspam me. Not to mention agi whores,and big wpf 2h,polearms,and other scum. Everyone have lots,and lots of wpf. You need to get more or evryone will be second faster then ur weapon.
You can maybie compensate it with more then 6 athl but below that you are going to be spammed all time.

You can stop yourself from getting double-swung with 1 WPF, let alone the 111 you get for free at level 30. That's mostly a footwork issue.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Slots on February 23, 2012, 07:29:05 am

I spent my entire last gen as a 0 WM 1hander. As long as your foot work is good you should not have problems with killing people. You will have the occasional glance with only 6 PS but as long as you get your speed bonus it wont be too bad unless its fully heirloomed plate. You have to use your feet more in order to get the speed bonus instead of the small portion from having more WPF.

Granted, this is all my own experience so it can be disregarded as crap. You will be glancing, that is a given. And as Vodner said its mostly a footwork issue.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Xant on February 23, 2012, 10:08:16 am

Quote from: Mlekce on February 23, 2012, 02:56:29 am

dude i have now 124 points and i am lvl 22,and i have balanced scimitar. I suck so hard. other ppl with non loomed items outspam me. Not to mention agi whores,and big wpf 2h,polearms,and other scum. Everyone have lots,and lots of wpf. You need to get more or evryone will be second faster then ur weapon.
You can maybie compensate it with more then 6 athl but below that you are going to be spammed all time.

Yeah, it's not the wpf's fault that you "suck so hard." Absolutely no one can outspam you when you have 124 wpf and a scimitar. Unless you fail at footwork.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Stabby_Dave on February 23, 2012, 12:17:00 pm

Quote from: Mlekce on February 23, 2012, 02:56:29 am

dude i have now 124 points and i am lvl 22,and i have balanced scimitar. I suck so hard. other ppl with non loomed items outspam me. Not to mention agi whores,and big wpf 2h,polearms,and other scum. Everyone have lots,and lots of wpf. You need to get more or evryone will be second faster then ur weapon.
You can maybie compensate it with more then 6 athl but below that you are going to be spammed all time.

Yea as xant and saul said, footwork. A simple thing to remember to help is with a left to right swing, strafe right and with a right to left swing, strafe left. There's a lot more to it than that but its a good start.

Also, I suspect it may be your timing that is off since even without good footwork, a scimitar should nearly always be able to attack back against most builds. Make sure that as soon as you hear the block sound you launch your attack otherwise people will spam you very very easily.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Oggrinsky on February 24, 2012, 08:37:47 am

I used to be a firm believer in WM. After playing ranged gen after ranged gen though I've learned to get by on 100 or less melee wpf.
You really don't need more, especially with one handers. I'm going for this build currently:

Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 66

Skills to attributes: 8

Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 6
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 0

One Handed: 100
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 55
Throwing: 1

High Athletics for footwork abuse.
High PS with a MW 1h to chew through tin cans.
Enough wpf in 1h to not glance and just enough xbow wpf to mess around.
More than enough hit points, plus you have a shield (free blocks).

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: San on February 24, 2012, 05:59:10 pm

After seeing Rustyspoon reborn with his new build, I'm getting very tempted to respec to 21/21 or 24/18 pure 1h. I'm just hesitating to lose 35 million exp, though.

At level 33, 21/21, 24/18, and 27/15 all seem very tempting.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Turboflex on February 24, 2012, 07:10:35 pm

I play a hybrid 21-15 thrower/1h so 5 WM split between throwing and 1h for about 105-115 wpf in each, so basically the same as a 0 WM.

You will be fine as long as you have decent footwork/timing and maybe use a fast-ish weapon to compensate (I use broad 1h axe). Against a really good blocker you might have problems (so would anyone tho) but you can outlast them for a while with your shield and eventually they might mess up if you're changing up your timing and combos on them. Basically if you are able to play 1h without crutching on spamming a 150 WPF scimitar, you will be ok. I'm not the best player but when I'm playing well I can get into top 3 on charts.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: PieParadox on February 25, 2012, 04:55:47 am

DONT DO IT SAN!! YOU WILL REGRET IT.. FOREVER!!!!!!

Just make an alt? What is your build right now? A one or two skill point (+1 PS/1+ ath) difference wouldn't be worth it.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Jarlek on February 25, 2012, 05:33:00 am

(click to show/hide)

This is my current build. I usually spawn with an Iberian Mace, so 1h is probably the one I use the most, but I switch a lot between all types through looting. I have very, very rarely any problems with anyone swinging faster than me, and that's usually because I tried to sneak in a hit. This build has shown me that having more than 100 wpf, really doesn't do very much. Your problem is probably that you are getting outranged or hesitate or something.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: SixThumbs on February 25, 2012, 05:59:37 am

Last Gen I went 21/21 max power-strike and athletics with 3 shield and it worked out alright.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Shatter on February 25, 2012, 06:00:20 am

Last gen I went 0 wm shielder.

24/15
8 ps, 5 ath, 5 shield, 5 if

I used an Elite Scimitar and I honestly had no trouble with weapon speed. I don't know if it would be different with a slower 1h, but with a fast one you won't notice much of a difference.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: ponyboy on February 27, 2012, 09:30:22 pm

I'll report how it is when I hit 30 with 0wm

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Vodner on February 28, 2012, 04:59:35 am

I respecced at 32 again, and decided to go with a 0 WM build. It is working fantastically.

I'll probably eventually get some WM, just to help reduce the upkeep on my weapons (assuming I don't respec at 32 again, which I might).

Code: [Select]

    Strength: 27
    Agility: 15

    Unused skill points: 1

    Skills to attributes: 12

    Power Strike: 9
    Shield: 5
    Athletics: 5

    One Handed: 113

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: ponyboy on February 28, 2012, 06:27:49 am

Well as I hit 30 today I was pwning pretty well. Build seems like a success. Next question: Should I trade my masterpiece white heavy norman shield for a masterpiece heavy round shield?

Masterpiece White Heavy Norman Shield
weight: 8.5
body armor: 18
difficulty: 4
hit points: 533
speed rating: 87
shield height: 95
shield width: 25

The +3 white heavy norman shield is a beast, and works nicely with my 4 shield skill as it rarely breaks. However a heavy round shield is desirable since it provides better protection from being nailed by hits on my sides since the norman shield is fairly skinny, and the heavy round shield is also a little bit lighter.

Pros for trading for a +3 heavy round shield:
-superior all around protection
-slightly lighter weight, for increased movement speed
-slightly cheaper upkeep

Cons
-a good chunk less hit points, wont last as long, especially with my lower shield skill

What say you?

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: rustyspoon on February 28, 2012, 06:52:58 am

Quote from: ponyboy on February 28, 2012, 06:27:49 am

Well as I hit 30 today I was pwning pretty well. Build seems like a success. Next question: Should I trade my masterpiece white heavy norman shield for a masterpiece heavy round shield?

Masterpiece White Heavy Norman Shield
weight: 8.5
body armor: 18
difficulty: 4
hit points: 533
speed rating: 87
shield height: 95
shield width: 25

The +3 white heavy norman shield is a beast, and works nicely with my 4 shield skill as it rarely breaks. However a heavy round shield is desirable since it provides better protection from being nailed by hits on my sides since the norman shield is fairly skinny, and the heavy round shield is also a little bit lighter.

Pros for trading for a +3 heavy round shield:
-superior all around protection
-slightly lighter weight, for increased movement speed
-slightly cheaper upkeep

Cons
-a good chunk less hit points, wont last as long, especially with my lower shield skill

What say you?

Honestly, the heavy round isn't going to give you much extra protection on the sides. It's quite easy to hit around it and I don't think you'll notice a difference in that regard if you switch. You probably wouldn't notice much of a difference in movement speed either.

Honestly, I'd stick with the Norman as long as you don't mind it being 2 slots. The added weight also gives you more protection from shield stun.

The only reasons I use a heavy round shield are that it looks cool and a MW one is almost as good as a stock Huscarl and it only takes up 1 slot.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Rhaelys on March 03, 2012, 11:59:15 am

Quote from: Vodner on February 28, 2012, 04:59:35 am

I respecced at 32 again, and decided to go with a 0 WM build. It is working fantastically.

I'll probably eventually get some WM, just to help reduce the upkeep on my weapons (assuming I don't respec at 32 again, which I might).

Code: [Select]
Strength: 27 Agility: 15 Unused skill points: 1 Skills to attributes: 12 Power Strike: 9 Shield: 5 Athletics: 5 One Handed: 113

Oh shit SaulCanner went Strength crutch.

We are all fucked.

Also Saul go for IF.

Title: Re: Anyone tried 0wm with 1hander?
Post by: Kherr on March 03, 2012, 01:05:58 pm

I would go for 24/15 with full IF instead of 27/15.
I played 24/15 with full IF and no WM a long time. It's very nice.

(I test a 21/18 with WM and lighter armor now. Hm... imho the weapon has a little better responsiveness. Battle seems to be easier. I know the WM 0 discussion and voted very often for WM 0. We will see. But 24/15 with IF and no WM is great!)