cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: v/onMega on February 21, 2012, 11:14:24 pm
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Not just that fact that this mechanic is technically not really well made...
It gets worse by ppl. being able to PUT all their weight into a swing and simultaneously kick you...
Realism by slower combat and then something like this? This mechanic is retarded in the manner it works.
Any suggestions from anybody for a good change to that?
(not willing to learn this since it sucks and looks idiotic)
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I fucking repeat it.
How is this a mechanic being considered WORTH to be in this game?
Double offense, slash plus a fucking instant kick.
Devs to busy fucking other things up?
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A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which ones tries to win at all costs is "boring" or "not fun." Let's consider two groups of players: a group of good players and a group of scrubs. The scrubs will play "for fun" and not explore the extremities of the game. They won't find the most effective tactics and abuse them mercilessly. The good players will. The good players will find incredibly overpowering tactics and patterns. As they play the game more, they'll be forced to find counters to those tactics. The vast majority of tactics that at first appear unbeatable end up having counters, though they are often quite esoteric and difficult to discover. The counter tactic prevents the first player from doing the tactic, but the first player can then use a counter to the counter. The second player is now afraid to use his counter and he's again vulnerable to the original overpowering tactic.
Notice that the good players are reaching higher and higher levels of play. They found the "cheap stuff" and abused it. They know how to stop the cheap stuff. They know how to stop the other guy from stopping it so they can keep doing it. And as is quite common in competitive games, many new tactics will later be discovered that make the original cheap tactic look wholesome and fair. Often in fighting games, one character will have something so good it's unfair. Fine, let him have that. As time goes on, it will be discovered that other characters have even more powerful and unfair tactics. Each player will attempt to steer the game in the direction of his own advantages, much how grandmaster chess players attempt to steer opponents into situations in which their opponents are weak.
Let's return to the group of scrubs. They don't know the first thing about all the depth I've been talking about. Their argument is basically that ignorantly mashing buttons with little regard to actual strategy is more "fun." Superficially, their argument does at least look true, since often their games will be more "wet and wild" than games between the experts, which are usually more controlled and refined. But any close examination will reveal that the experts are having a great deal of fun on a higher level than the scrub can even imagine. Throwing together some circus act of a win isn't nearly as satisfying as reading your opponent's mind to such a degree that you can counter his ever move, even his every counter.
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If you get kicked often, stop facehugging. Kick exists purely to open up overeager shielders and get facehuggers to back off and fight at the optimum range of their weapon. Combat in this game is distance control and footwork first, and the other junk like blocking and attacking, feinting, holds etc (normal combat flow) second.
Kick used to be pretty ridiculous when you could turn it in an old patch, used it all the time back then as it was basically free kills against those with short weapons. But now that it freezes you in place for about 2 seconds unable to turn, a poorly timed kick against an aware opponent can get you killed pretty easily so I think that its balanced now. Risk > reward.
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Nothing more to say.
And no, there is no risk in kicking, because you can block just fine while kicking. Almost only players that kill me in duel on the duel server are kick abusers. Just don´t fight those people Mega :)
Downblock is very easy to stab through/around against someone who is kicking, and nobody can kick you unless you are putting yourself needlessly close to them (some weapons ARE very short, yes, but the majority of them fall well outside of kick range). Also, a kick locks your in place for a second or so, leaving you open on your backside with no way to defend.
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Kicks are fine. You risk yourself considering you can't block stab for a ceratain amount of time and you can be circled while standing still after missing a kick. vmega, aren't you a 2H, what the hell are you doing within kicking range and complaining about it afterwards? Kicks are a counter to facehugging, which also involves the hiltslash. Do you hiltslash a lot? If so, being kicked is the risk. :P
1. Stay out of kick reach = no risk for getting kicked.
2. Stab a lot if you know they're still gonna try the kick, and try to bait them to kick (pretend to facehug, quick backpedal + thrust to the face)
3. ???
4. Profit
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Smoothrich wall of text, really entertaining...
Stop explaining things from sticks and stones...while missing the whole point.
I am not playing 2h anymore, mostly, no.
You ppl. explain things like there is so many downsides to kicks.
I am allrdy talking bout expert use of this, which basiclly looks retarded, is next to impossible to read and doesnt add to the game at all.
I refuse to learn stuff without appeal to gain the edge over smbdy (not like it is hard to learn to follow certain attacks with a kick)...
It is in line with random armor calc. ,polearmstagger and the general uselessness of chambering at the current combatspeed.
Things that kill the game experience...
And simply dont make any sense.
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Stop explaining things from sticks and stones...while missing the whole point.
The point, as I see it, is that you fail to deal with kicks and rather to adapt you still facehug every other player and then complain about it having a counter.
Kicks also have counters, circling and stabbing. Kicks are only a counter to facehugging. Honestly, it seems balanced to me.
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Smoothrich wall of text, really entertaining...
Stop explaining things from sticks and stones...while missing the whole point.
I think the point is obvious. You're the scrub.
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Meh, not true. I fought alot of people that use kicks, and you can block while kicking. No chance to stab someone just because he kicks you, he still can block, BUT if his kick hits you, its a free hit for the kicker.
its about them being locked during kick. you can pass them and perform an attack from their side or back.
however you need enough athletics to get into position fast enough.
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If you say I am the scrub...you obviously dont know me.
Dealing with the way some ppl. use kicks, is next to impossible, its more and more obvious that you ppl. dont duel good /abusing players.
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WarLord, there's a certain amount of time you can't block stabs if you kick. It's true. :wink:
And, yes, you can circle your opponent for a free hit if he missed his kick while you were close.
Dealing with the way some ppl. use kicks, is next to impossible, its more and more obvious that you ppl. dont duel good /abusing players.
It's your own fault for getting kicked. Stop complaining about the mechanic when it's your own failings. KEEP OUT OF KICK REACH IF YOU HATE BEING KICKED, YOU HAVE A FUCKING GREATSWORD. /rage off
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Read. I is no 2h.
I repeat, you ppl. dont seem to have a clue about what degree of usage I talk about.
Obv. you don't since I don t recon you ppl. as skilled players, so do me a favour and stop explaining...(excluding WarLord and Torben)
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Obv. you don't since I don t recon you ppl. as skilled players, so do me a favour and stop explaining...(excluding WarLord and Torben)
I thought you were decent, until I saw this thread.