cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Dravic on February 13, 2012, 10:43:30 pm

Title: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Dravic on February 13, 2012, 10:43:30 pm
Hi guys!

I am wondering, if builds like 6/7 str 30+ agi are viable.

Are they?

I mean, do they bounce off so much with proper footwork?

I thought about doing an agi character like this, but am wondering about a build and weapon.

The latter is probably much more problematic.

Here are my ideas for weapons:

Shortened spear - nice stab, but really bad swing dmg. It's fast itself and it has really low difficulty. Doesn't forgive side swings - if you bounce off there are HIGH chances you are dead in next 2 seconds.

Short Falchion - this is my second favourite "idea". You would see Scottish Sword in its place if it had 6 difficulty, but since it doesn't... The damage is really nice, requirements are... LOW and i mean LOW - 4 str? rly? There is one downside, really hard to pass - short reach. And I mean SHORT - 61 units? rly? The speed is REALLY nice, tho. 104 speed unloomed and with loom it has a whopping 105 speed and 33 cut damage, which is a lot faster than Katana. But the length sucks...
Glad it is longer than Long Dagger ;)

... which leads us to Yanmaodao. Now this is my favorite one. Same dmg as Short Falchion, 25 units longer reach, reasonable difficulty - 6... But it is a "bit" slower. The "bit" means a lot if I am going to "dive" between enemy attacks during duel to deal some dmg. Don't get me wrong, it isn't slow, but... You know... I like to swing fast. Really fast, if it's possible.



Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Mlekce on February 13, 2012, 10:55:24 pm
one hit with stones and u are dead. i have 20 str and 4 IF and wear medium armor (40 to head,body,and legs) and sometimes i die from one hit. Everyone will rape you with that build. it is shit,completly usless.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Lysander on February 13, 2012, 11:01:56 pm
I'm using atm 15/27, but if you want 30 ath, go 12/30.
Could work well, and you can also use Katana.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Zerran on February 13, 2012, 11:13:09 pm
2 PS will bounce off just about anything more than light armor unless you're using a pierce thrusting weapon, and even then you're restricting yourself to 1 viable attack direction with a fairly short weapon. You'll be fast as hell, sure, but you're damage will be so low it's really not worth it. Even successful hits won't do much damage. Also remember, wpf only increases speed by about 6.5% per 100 points, so if you go 10 wm and have 189 wpf, which is 78 more than someone who has no WM, you only attack about 4-5% faster, which isn't likely to help you much. The only thing a build like this is really viable for, tbh, is messing around, or perhaps sneak attacking archers.

I would strongly recommend against using a cut weapon if you do a build like this. It HAS to do blunt and/or pierce damage, or you'll just bounce off everything. The plain "Spear" is probably your best bet here. Alternatively, if you go 7 strength, the quarter staff is a very nice option too. With that you would actually be able to use the swings as well to decent effect.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Dravic on February 13, 2012, 11:30:45 pm
I'm using atm 15/27, but if you want 30 ath, go 12/30.
Could work well, and you can also use Katana.

12/30? Low WM, but... how about an awlpike? Matches requirements, deals pretty amount of damage, with 10 athletics the footwork won't be bad (though 11+ is always better)... with correct footwork should be able to make people confused when they get hit between their own attacks...

What do you think?
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: SirProto on February 14, 2012, 12:41:12 am
I'm 12/24 and it works pretty well, I can choose who to fight and run from big mobs if need be. I use a scottish sword & steel buckler usually and it rarely bounces with 4 PS and the speed bonus
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: rustyspoon on February 14, 2012, 01:10:31 am
The biggest problem with builds like this are your own teammates. Since pretty much everyone will 1 hit you, if you ever drop a block because of a team hit you're dead. And we all know how reliable teammates are...
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: caris on February 14, 2012, 02:22:23 am
A shield will help help survival issues. Polearm + Shield + 10 Athletics so you can just backpedal/thrust to be annoying.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Brrrak on February 14, 2012, 02:35:44 am
A shield will help help survival issues. Polearm + Shield + 10 Athletics so you can just backpedal/thrust to be annoying.

Wasting all that athletics on backpedalling?  Are you nuts?  Run around, try to open your opponent up, get good thrusts in while s/he's unable to respond, stack polestagger.  You're not gonna top the scoreboards too easily with 6/7 strength, but you can definitely have a ton of fun.

That said, high ath awlpikers are insanely fucking annoying a pretty viable playstyle too.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: ShinySpoons on February 14, 2012, 02:47:42 am
Can be intensely good, kill all enemies deal if it matches your playstyle. Though of course, if you get lazy/unlucky and catch a random arrow/roaming wild horse you die.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Zerran on February 14, 2012, 03:28:56 am
Wasting all that athletics on backpedalling?  Are you nuts?  Run around, try to open your opponent up, get good thrusts in while s/he's unable to respond, stack polestagger.  You're not gonna top the scoreboards too easily with 6/7 strength, but you can definitely have a ton of fun.

Backpeddling is the most boring way to use ath, imo. Circling around and confusing the shit out of opponents is so much more fun (and honestly can work VERY well if done properly).
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Uumdi on February 14, 2012, 03:35:31 am
You can actually do damage with as low as 6-7 strength.  Try a piercing weapon like shortened spear, or highest damage cut you can use with such low str.  I had a STF wakizashi dude, and I actually managed not to glance off goretooth in full black armor a few times.  I can assure you I was probably only doing 1-5 damage to him haha, but if you charge your swings for half a second+, you'll hear your character grunt, and this actually gives you a significant damage bonus.  30, maybe even 50% i forget. 

Somebody mentioned a 12/30 build, which is entirely possible, or a 12/27 depending if you want the weapon master for added speed and damage or not.  You're still gonna be super soft at 12 str.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Brrrak on February 14, 2012, 03:48:17 am
You can actually do damage with as low as 6-7 strength.  Try a piercing weapon like shortened spear, or highest damage cut you can use with such low str.  I had a STF wakizashi dude, and I actually managed not to glance off goretooth in full black armor a few times.  I can assure you I was probably only doing 1-5 damage to him haha, but if you charge your swings for half a second+, you'll hear your character grunt, and this actually gives you a significant damage bonus.  30, maybe even 50% i forget. 

Somebody mentioned a 12/30 build, which is entirely possible, or a 12/27 depending if you want the weapon master for added speed and damage or not.  You're still gonna be super soft at 12 str.

This.  If you're confident in your footwork and blocking, stack wm. 

EDIT: Fuck Caita's math, Xiaolin.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Zerran on February 14, 2012, 03:58:56 am
This.  If you're confident in your footwork and blocking, stack wm.

Not really any reason to go past 3 wm, even with a massively high agi build.

12/27 with 180 wpf (9 wm) and 30 cut damage on 45 body armor = 15.5 average damage according to the calculator.

15/27 with 130 wpf (3 wm) and 30 cut damage on 45 body armor = 16 average damage according to the calculator.

The first build also had 1 point IF, so in total the bottom build has 1 more hp and deals ~3% more damage, while sacrificing ~3% weapons speed. However, it should be noted that most of your attack speed should be coming from good footwork rather than base weapon speed, so that 3% weapon speed will mean a LOT less than that in actual practice.

EDIT: Of course, you could also go 12/30 at that point and get another point of ath, which could potentially further increase your speed bonus and help both speed AND damage.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: _Tak_ on February 14, 2012, 05:33:56 am
I use 3/36 and its epic. My build only works great on rage ball, with 0 PS and i can still kill people (Anything beyond byrnie is impossible to kill them)
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Dravic on February 14, 2012, 06:19:52 am
I will make the 12/30. Should be epic fun, considering how I love agi characters.


Also, AlexTheDragon, when STF was first introduced I tested many agi builds. Including 13 athletics + shortened spear.

Maybe I didn't do too much damage, but people were QUITE confused when I ran around them like a bee and poked them right when they didn't expect me to do it. Dealing ~~10 dmg per hit,  sometimes I might bounce... but boy, even then I could use my 13 athletics as a backup and get out of enemy's reach. :P
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: _Tak_ on February 14, 2012, 06:22:08 am

Also, AlexTheDragon, when STF was first introduced I tested many agi builds. Including 13 athletics + shortened spear.


I wish i never made that build, it's so boring to continuously playing on rage ball........I wanna RAGE!
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on February 14, 2012, 07:13:24 am
Smack talking fools.

6str for a spear.

6/33

2PS
10ATH
11WM

197 pole arms.

You move like a deamon and can pole-stagger people into the stone age. I carry a short spear and a spear. The short spear wtih 197wpf swings so stupidly fast that if you get your foot work right they can't recover and you just beat them to death. You can get the same out come with a Staff but the extra stab power on the short spear is handy for finishing. You pull the spear out when you need the range.

Another alternative is;
9/30
3PS
10ATH
10WM
189 wpf pole arm.

Fauchard + Short Spear, nice range, nice damage and if you get caught out you can pull the short spear and spaz the fuck out.

These builds are perfectly playable. Anyone that says they aren't can't block and is probably a scrub. They require skill, dedication and a solid understanding of the battle field, you need to avoid range like the plague.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Okkam on February 14, 2012, 11:11:46 am
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 16
Agility: 27
Hit points: 51
Skills to attributes: 16
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 0
Athletics: 9
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 1
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 116
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

GLA or LHSM


Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 9
Agility: 30
Hit points: 50
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 3
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 0
Athletics: 10
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 7
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 163
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

Mace


Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Fartface on February 15, 2012, 09:36:34 am
my fav build is.
either lvl 32 build or lvl 30.
lvl 30.
15/27
5 ps
9 ath
and 3wm or 3 if.
lvl 32 build.
15/27
5 ps 9 ath 8 wm or 9 wm forgot.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: SirProto on February 16, 2012, 11:58:47 pm
Backpeddling is the most boring way to use ath, imo. Circling around and confusing the shit out of opponents is so much more fun (and honestly can work VERY well if done properly).

I like to run into a mob with my shield up and dodge inbetween them so they get a few TK's before I run off again
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: zagibu on February 19, 2012, 12:25:43 pm
I have a 10/27 shielder and hate it. You need 5+ hits to kill someone in medium armor, while they often kill you in one hit. Also, with 9 ATH you are not that much faster as your opponents with 6. It's not worth it IMO.

Maybe it's different with a MW katana or spears with good pierce damage.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Camaris on February 19, 2012, 05:21:03 pm
High agi builds are for true lovers. If you want to be effective you are going str.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 20, 2012, 07:30:25 am
I will make the 12/30. Should be epic fun, considering how I love agi characters.


Also, AlexTheDragon, when STF was first introduced I tested many agi builds. Including 13 athletics + shortened spear.

Maybe I didn't do too much damage, but people were QUITE confused when I ran around them like a bee and poked them right when they didn't expect me to do it. Dealing ~~10 dmg per hit,  sometimes I might bounce... but boy, even then I could use my 13 athletics as a backup and get out of enemy's reach. :P
CanYouBlockDown_PGI is 12/30 awlpike. No wm, 3 shield.
Really fun. Also shield will really save this character, you need ultra light armor so you can use your speed to advantage, So bring a shield so you don't die to a single arrow.
it can be really fun. Choose your fights :)
Or you can just go with 3 wm and dodge. But don't blame me when you have tons of unnecessary deaths. :)
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: HarunYahya on February 20, 2012, 07:46:57 am
agi = shit.
Do a manly build instead.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Vibe on February 20, 2012, 08:07:00 am
Anything below 15 STR is not really worth it, imo. 12 STR might still be playable, but anything less you'll do no damage and will just get one shotted.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Dravic on February 20, 2012, 01:44:23 pm
Anything below 15 STR is not really worth it, imo. 12 STR might still be playable, but anything less you'll do no damage and will just get one shotted.

Fixed version:

Quote
Anything below 15 STR is not really worth it, imo, because it requires too much skill. 12 STR might still be playable, but anything less you'll do no
damage without correct footwork and will just get one shotted without dodging skills.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: TomMyyY on February 20, 2012, 09:23:37 pm
I have a 3/36 build with a scythe and it's a lot of fun, it's probably not what you're looking for since the thing only has 85 speed (and that's an elders scythe).

You obviously die easily, from like everything, but the damage output isn't really all that bad, I can fight almost everyone as long as you keep focusing on getting good hits in. Hold attacks to the face are my favourite  :twisted:.

Often people ask about my build and don't believe I only have 3 str, but my build at 30 is 1 PS, 12 ath and 10 WM.

It's really good fun, you can catch up with all those silly archers who think they can just run away, and it's awesome to backpedal away from big groups of confused enemies.
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Dravic on February 20, 2012, 09:56:28 pm
I have a 3/36 build with a scythe and it's a lot of fun, it's probably not what you're looking for since the thing only has 85 speed (and that's an elders scythe).

You obviously die easily, from like everything, but the damage output isn't really all that bad, I can fight almost everyone as long as you keep focusing on getting good hits in. Hold attacks to the face are my favourite  :twisted:.

Often people ask about my build and don't believe I only have 3 str, but my build at 30 is 1 PS, 12 ath and 10 WM.

It's really good fun, you can catch up with all those silly archers who think they can just run away, and it's awesome to backpedal away from big groups of confused enemies.

I've always believed in you, TomMyyY!

I knew you aren't devoted to strength that much ;)
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: TomMyyY on February 20, 2012, 09:58:05 pm
I've always believed in you, TomMyyY!

I knew you aren't devoted to strength that much ;)

Don't really have a choice when you want to ride an arabian like me, damn 7 riding requirement :P
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Casimir on February 21, 2012, 01:17:33 am
The fleeing serf approves of this message
Title: Re: Low str REALLY high agi melee characters.
Post by: Ridicule on February 22, 2012, 04:39:43 am
I'm currently running a 9 str 30 agi 2H build.  But I also play rageball almost to exclusion of other game types, so it really works well for that.  I do miss having 24 str for far throws, but being able to catch almost everyone is really nice.  Even with my armor on, I'm faster than pretty much everyone.  If there are a lot of people running around naked I tend to drop my armor down so that I can still be faster than them. 

One thing to keep in mind, if you play a high agi build and don't like it, play a lot of rageball and you can probably hit 31 in about 2 weeks if you are on some good teams.  It's not too difficult to maintain a x5 with a good team.  And no, that doesn't include stall tactics.  You will make a ton of gold as well, since with a high agi build you aren't spending a ton on repairs.