cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Penitent on February 07, 2012, 10:12:42 pm

Title: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Penitent on February 07, 2012, 10:12:42 pm
What do you guys think of this.  Is the wpf ok?  Does anyone try builds like this any more?  I'm fine with using a 1-slot bow and 1 stack of arrows.  I've got a MW horn bow and MW Great Sword.  Let me know what you think!

lv30
    * Strength: 15
    * Agility: 21
    * Hit points: 60

    * Skills to attributes: 2

    * Ironflesh: 5
    * Power Strike: 5
    * Shield: 0
    * Athletics: 7
    * Riding: 0
    * Horse Archery: 0
    * Power Draw: 5
    * Power Throw: 0
    * Weapon Master: 7

    * Two Handed: 120
    * Archery: 130
 
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 07, 2012, 11:05:46 pm
15\21 is fine for hybrid. But I think you must tweak you wpf distribution.

Something like 150 archery \ 100 2H.
And think about faster 2H weapon. Longsword, two handed sword, katana.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Jarlek on February 08, 2012, 12:37:48 am
130 archery wpf is fine. I'm also an archer hybrid (but 1h, not 2h) and I got 100 1h wpf and 130 archery wpf. I also got 6 PD (more than you and PD lowers wpf) and I can use blue tunic over mail, blue kettle helmet, mail gloves and Rus cavalry boots and still be more than accurate enough. You wont do the really, really long shots, but the difference between the accuracy of my "heavy" archer an my "normal" archer alt, is so small it's negligible.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 08, 2012, 12:59:19 am
If you prefer slow and inaccurate short distance shooting - you can try Jarlek build.

Doubt that with 40-45 effective wpf in archery you can aim. And you'll have epic repair bills with this wpf.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Penitent on February 08, 2012, 03:40:09 am
I can consider tweaking wpf.  Do you guys think 5 pd is appropriate? 

In terms of melee...5 PS for melee is pushing it for me, which is why I wasn't sure about taking a faster, but less damaging weapon.  Think 5 PS is ok for longsword/katana?
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 08, 2012, 11:10:21 am
Anyway 5 PD is minimum for hornbow. If you have loomed hornbow you'll make enough damage with bodkins. Do not expect to kill army of tincans though. Your main hook is accurate shots from medium distance. You can find Adawulf at EU-2. He has 15\21 build (but he put all 163 wpf in achery)

About melee... If you prefer to catch enemy with Great sword thrust attack - use great sword. If your fighting style include overheads and  sideswings - i think that any of this fast weapons will be good. Difference between 5 and 6ps - 2-3 points of damage.

P.S. Bec is better for this build.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Tennenoth on February 08, 2012, 12:22:24 pm
Otherwise you'll want to look at 6PD, so 18/21.

You'll want to hit for the longbow which will in turn decrease your wpf in melee to 55 and have your archery at 159 at level 30. That's the build I had until I stopped retiring and hit 33 (18/24, 95, 160)

Get yourself a nice fast 1/2 hander and you should be easily fast enough to attack back, although you'll probably find that weapons like loomed Katana's and some of those ridiculously fast 1 handers/polearms will eat you up.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Jarlek on February 08, 2012, 01:32:03 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on February 08, 2012, 12:59:19 am
If you prefer slow and inaccurate short distance shooting - you can try Jarlek build.

Doubt that with 40-45 effective wpf in archery you can aim. And you'll have epic repair bills with this wpf.
Wrong. I'm not saying I'm just as fast as people with 150 wpf and cloth armour, but I'm still not "slow" compared to them. Most of the archers I shoot against are maybe just 110% the speed that I have. Not very big at all. Same with the accuracy. The difference is so small you really don't need it. Better to get that armour and melee wpf. My distance is also pretty good. I can't do the LONG shots, but medium works perfectly fine. Just to know what distance I'm talking about: In the map Ruins I can stand in the village spawn and shoot at people in the middle "arch" gate thingie, and still be accurate enough. Almost the same hit chance as on my full archer alt.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 08, 2012, 02:20:57 pm
Ok Jarlek, let's make some experiment about your build precision. Since my main build (6PD 163 wpf) have almost same precision as proposed build (5PD 150 wpf) let's see what you can get.

Map - Ruin
Distance - as you suggested, village spawn - wall with arc.
Non-moving reticule (just aim your first shot and then do not touch mouse and WASD buttons)
 
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://piccy.info/view3/2591160/9b6c3dccc298cd8b229a483747adb3e3/1200/)


This is MW hornbow spread. 34 arrows.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://piccy.info/view3/2591167/6909b1760ba4451d98a044191c7253d1/1200/)


Same spread with «potential target»
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://piccy.info/view3/2591178/d0151154cb2e6f1dc51ac76029e189ee/1200/)


Your move.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Jarlek on February 08, 2012, 05:01:36 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on February 08, 2012, 02:20:57 pm
(click to show/hide)
Sure. Give me some time. I don't have a MW bow, btw. Mind if I do it with a normal Rus Bow? We could also meet up so I could borrow your bow.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Thomek on February 08, 2012, 05:43:07 pm
wow.. Archers have a way with theorycrafting..

My I ask what is the optimum Archer build these days for an STF without looms? I'm thinking about what you think is a good compromise with a heavy emphasis on Archery. IDK but something along the lines of a Standard Archer, for someone like me who knows melee, not a specialized headshot machine, hybrid or max PD archer. Does wep looms and level make a huge impact for Archers? Much more so than other classes?

It doesn't have to be an extreme running archer, but should be barely able to choose fights and run from massed tincans/dodge cav etc. Thinking perhaps 50-70 wpf in 2h mace or a 1h.

Just asking since I'm not up to speed on the last ranged changes.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: PanPan on February 08, 2012, 07:23:46 pm
Quote from: Tennenoth on February 08, 2012, 12:22:24 pm
Otherwise you'll want to look at 6PD, so 18/21.

You'll want to hit for the longbow which will in turn decrease your wpf in melee to 55 and have your archery at 159 at level 30. That's the build I had until I stopped retiring and hit 33 (18/24, 95, 160)

Get yourself a nice fast 1/2 hander and you should be easily fast enough to attack back, although you'll probably find that weapons like loomed Katana's and some of those ridiculously fast 1 handers/polearms will eat you up.

(click to show/hide)

The most Basic build for an Archer.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Thomek on February 08, 2012, 07:54:02 pm
Cool thanks!

It still is, after patch? Nothing changed?
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: _Tak_ on February 09, 2012, 02:24:42 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on February 08, 2012, 02:20:57 pm
Ok Jarlek, let's make some experiment about your build precision. Since my main build (6PD 163 wpf) have almost same precision as proposed build (5PD 150 wpf) let's see what you can get.

Map - Ruin
Distance - as you suggested, village spawn - wall with arc.
Non-moving reticule (just aim your first shot and then do not touch mouse and WASD buttons)
 
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://piccy.info/view3/2591160/9b6c3dccc298cd8b229a483747adb3e3/1200/)


This is MW hornbow spread. 34 arrows.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://piccy.info/view3/2591167/6909b1760ba4451d98a044191c7253d1/1200/)


Same spread with «potential target»
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://piccy.info/view3/2591178/d0151154cb2e6f1dc51ac76029e189ee/1200/)


Your move.

What mod is this for the HP thingy? Please gimme link please
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 09, 2012, 02:59:14 pm
Quote from: AlexTheDragon on February 09, 2012, 02:24:42 pm
What mod is this for the HP thingy? Please gimme link please


http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23460.0.html
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 26, 2012, 02:47:31 pm
Looks like two weeks was not enough for you to show us your build accuracy Zapper.
Pity.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Jarlek on February 26, 2012, 04:55:40 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on February 26, 2012, 02:47:31 pm
Looks like two weeks was not enough for you to show us your build accuracy Zapper.
Pity.
You never responded to my question of which bow I should have used. Why did you never respond? Not my fault that you just ignored it. Just a simple "yeah, use that bow" would have been enough, but you never answered.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 26, 2012, 05:09:41 pm
if you wanna gather real data - use same bow.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Jarlek on February 26, 2012, 08:10:50 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on February 26, 2012, 05:09:41 pm
if you wanna gather real data - use same bow.
Which was my point exactly. But I don't HAVE a MW Horn Bow, hence I asked if I could use another bow or borrow yours. You never responded to that. Although you DID respond to another post here, so I'm guessing you just ignored it.
Pity.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 26, 2012, 10:43:31 pm
You can use your bow, I think i can find same for less time than two weeks.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Jarlek on February 26, 2012, 10:49:59 pm
Quote from: Cup1d on February 26, 2012, 10:43:31 pm
You can use your bow, I think i can find same for less time than two weeks.
My last gen was archer, I'm already retired and at lvl 30 with my 1h/2h/pole shieldercav build. Next gen is gonna be thrower/1h hybid. Might go back to the archerbuild after that. Was so OP :D
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: MrShine on February 27, 2012, 01:00:58 am
I personally suggest putting almost all the WPF into archery, and then maybe something like 50 wpf into 2h.  I've done gens without any wpf into melee and been able to compete just fine.

I recommend using a blunt weapon (like the mace) as your 2 hander.  5 PS works ok for longsword/katana but blunt is just so much safer, plus those handy knock-downs can give you a chance to finish someone off or simply put distance between you and the enemy if we're talking a tin can.

The WPF issue is tricky since you run into the issue of diminishing returns VS the general ranged wpf needs.  Aka, is losing ~50 wpf in melee worth the extra 5-6 wpf into archery? 

I guess it depends on what your goal is:
-Archer who gets off a few shots at range and then engages: split the wpf more like how you are suggesting.
-Primary archer, but able to defend self when forced to melee: max archery wpf.
Title: Re: Archery 2h hybrid build advice.
Post by: Cup1d on February 27, 2012, 12:42:44 pm
Quote from: MrShine on February 27, 2012, 01:00:58 am
I personally suggest putting almost all the WPF into archery, and then maybe something like 50 wpf into 2h.  I've done gens without any wpf into melee and been able to compete just fine.

I recommend using a blunt weapon (like the mace) as your 2 hander.  5 PS works ok for longsword/katana but blunt is just so much safer, plus those handy knock-downs can give you a chance to finish someone off or simply put distance between you and the enemy if we're talking a tin can.

The WPF issue is tricky since you run into the issue of diminishing returns VS the general ranged wpf needs.  Aka, is losing ~50 wpf in melee worth the extra 5-6 wpf into archery? 

I guess it depends on what your goal is:
-Archer who gets off a few shots at range and then engages: split the wpf more like how you are suggesting.
-Primary archer, but able to defend self when forced to melee: max archery wpf.

Your build it's more like pure archer with limited melee defence abilities. With mace range your chances against cavalry is very low. Also every polearmer will just stun you with holded overhead because you do not have any chances in «outrange» game. Looks like thread maker wanna have medium\close range archer and still have possibility to play agressively with melee weapon.
And do not forget about repairing chances with low melee proficiency.