cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: ponyboy on February 02, 2012, 04:23:03 am

Title: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: ponyboy on February 02, 2012, 04:23:03 am
So heres my Currenty gen build:
21 str 18 agi
3 if
7 ps
4 shield
6 ath
3 wm
130 wpf 1hander

Thinkin for my next gen, since the fotm is to not use any WM, and according to the damage calculator it really doesn't make much of any difference:

24str 15agi
6 if
8 ps
4 shield
5ath
0 wm

111wpf 1hander

Now, my previous reservation about going 0 wm was that there was some special damage penalty for being under 100wpf with armor weight.  But according to the calculator there is as .5 average damage difference between 0 wm and 3 wm.  I was thinking of going 24/18, but at lvl 30 I would have to sacrifice all my ironflesh which doesnt seem worth it.  Any input on this build?
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: oohillac on February 02, 2012, 04:40:39 am
I do not see any athletics, but I will assume at 15 agility you will put 5 points in.

Personally, I found 5 athletics far too slow as a shielder. The extra PS was not worth the hit to survivability.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: ponyboy on February 02, 2012, 07:01:25 am
Whoops, I did forget to put in Athletics.  But yes, maximum Athletics that the amount of agi allows. Ill fix that
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Spawny on February 02, 2012, 11:25:51 am
Quote from: oohillac on February 02, 2012, 04:40:39 am
I do not see any athletics, but I will assume at 15 agility you will put 5 points in.

Personally, I found 5 athletics far too slow as a shielder. The extra PS was not worth the hit to survivability.

I hardly ever go beyond 15 agility as a shielder. Imo, hitting hard, having high HP and generally being hard to kill more than makes up for the tiny amount you lose in speed.
It depends mostly on your role on the battlefield. I always play frontline fighter and in sieges I defend choke points until overwhelmed. Don't need a whole lot of athletics for that, I need to drop my enemies in 1-2 hits.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: oohillac on February 03, 2012, 06:12:48 am
Depends on the playstyle. I fare better dancing around my opponents, and usually lose head-on, low-mobility confrontations.

Others may be better at feints and kicks and such; there, strength will win.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Khorup on February 03, 2012, 10:40:06 am
What gear do you use?

My build is 24/15, with:

8 Powerstrike
5 Athetics
5 Shield
5 WPF

Many people suggest a higher agility build, but I have found out, that the extra powerstrike really makes a diffrence.
But as oohillac already said, it all depends on your play style. I do think however, that you should skip the IF skill, inorder to get WPF and an extra shield skill.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Snoozer on February 03, 2012, 10:48:35 am
this one works well you dont really sacrifice too much skill points its actually what i might use in my next build
(click to show/hide)

though i most likely am going to use this build though due to the fact i do not like being surrounded too easy
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: ponyboy on February 03, 2012, 08:38:19 pm
I've tried that 21/15 build, as well as 18/18 and 15/21.  They all worked decently well, but Im pushing for some extra PS/ath at the sacrifice of WM, since WM doesnt seem to do much of anything.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Penitent on February 03, 2012, 08:44:09 pm
Quote from: ponyboy on February 03, 2012, 08:38:19 pm
I've tried that 21/15 build, as well as 18/18 and 15/21.  They all worked decently well, but Im pushing for some extra PS/ath at the sacrifice of WM, since WM doesnt seem to do much of anything.

I think WM increases the speed of the swing more than the damage, but maybe I'm wrong.

I want to go 1h next gen too...but I don't think I can do anything other than 18/18.  5 PS is just too weak, and 5 Ath is just too slow.  If I try to sacrifice IF, my HP's are too low!  I'm trapped! :(
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: MrShine on February 03, 2012, 09:10:52 pm
If you aren't going to use any WM how about this?

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 66

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 5
    Athletics: 6

I say this because I personally think with an unheirmloomed shield 4 shield skill breaks too often... but going from 4 to 5 seems to make the shield last a lot longer.

Also ofc going WM or not is your preference, but while I agree it's probably the weakest skill stacking it does give a slight damage bonus as well as a very slight swing speed bonus.  Food for thought:

21/15 standard shielder build with 5 WM (146 wpf) and a 30c 1H:

    Minimum: 39
    Average: 45.5
    Maximum: 52

Your build w/ 24 str 8 PS but no WM (111 wpf) (again using a 30c 1H):

    Minimum: 40
    Average: 46.5
    Maximum: 53


You average 1 damage more per swing, but will be swinging a tiny bit slower.  Very negligible either way, but worth thinking about.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: ponyboy on February 03, 2012, 10:07:15 pm
hmm! interesting mr shine.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: zagibu on February 04, 2012, 12:40:39 am
Whether you need WM or not depends on the stuff you want to use. If you go with light armor, no WM might work. Otherwise, forget it. The weight you can carry is also based on WM, not only on STR (actually, WM is more important, IIRC).
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: El_Infante on February 04, 2012, 12:58:15 am
What about?

18/21.

6 PS
7 Shield
7 Athletics
3 WM.

I think you need WM to have a faster swing. Considering there is a WPF reduction by armor weight, you need at least an effective 120-130wpp. One hander get not too much benefits from PS because your base damage is low. 2handers & polearms get more "profit" from it. So 6 is more than enough. You need ATH because shield weight slows you down a lot. I saw skilled onehanders with that build.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: ponyboy on February 04, 2012, 02:49:35 am
The speed gain from WM seems very very small.  I haven't been able to notice it. especially with the diminishing returns of points put into it wpf. 

I disagree though in that I think powerstrike for 1handers is actually more important than 2handers or pole, because of the lower base damage.  Ive done 5ps and 6 ps 1hander builds, and you bounce off even medium armored targets pretty frequently compared to 7ps. Unless you use blunt or pierce damage 7ps I think is necessary for 1hander. 

Also I use a pretty beefy Reinforced white heavy norman shield which with 4shieldskill has been more than enough shield.  Though I would probably use a slightly lighter weight shield If I could trade for one.

However, as mr shine noted the damage difference from 8ps 111wpf and 7ps 146wpf is about the same, with slightly faster swing. so, now Im thinking between (I do want to try this 8ps business):

24/12
8if
8ps
4shield
4ath
4wm
138 wpf
75hp

And

24/15
3if
8ps
4shield
5ath
3wm

130wpf
65hp

The sacrifice being basically 10hp for 1 more athletics.  Not sure which build will yield more survivability. with the armor weight I use (H:2.5, B:11.1, Gloves:0.7  Boots: 0.8)

The average damage for the first build is 47  (30 cut)
and for the second 46.5

for the 21/7 it is 45 damage

Hmmm..
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Zerran on February 04, 2012, 03:37:47 am
Quote from: ponyboy on February 04, 2012, 02:49:35 am
The speed gain from WM seems very very small.  I haven't been able to notice it. especially with the diminishing returns of points put into it wpf. 

Just to clarify on this, WPF increases speed by approximately 6% per 100 points, if I remember from Waltf4's tests properly, hence why I've stopped using WM totally. 3 points in WM gives you 19 wpp, which translates to a little over 1% speed boost, as compared to 3 points in IF giving 6 HP which is around 10% more health for a balanced build.

EDIT: Actually here's a link to his tests (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.0.html).
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: oohillac on February 04, 2012, 06:46:07 am
My current build is a very enjoyable "hoplite."

15 Str
21 Agil

3 IF
5 PS
7 ATH
7 SHI
7 WM

1-h    140
poles 107

I notice a huge difference between ~110 WPF and 140.  I always take WM and get my WPF to or above 140.

Very fast, and having a nigh-invulnerable shield is handy for teamplay.  Of course, a PS-heavy build will favour solo players more I expect.  My high agility is very useful when I play with other Fallens: Circling opponents, jabbing with spear, and covering retreats.

(click to show/hide)

If you have previously played the 18/21 variations, I don't see why you shouldn't try the str-heavy. Perhaps do a STF alt first.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Arn_Magnusson on February 09, 2012, 09:47:49 pm
How about this one:

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 18

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 6
    Athletics: 4
    Weapon Master: 6

    One Handed: 154

I played that build. You can use every shield, with armor lower than 25 kg (all) you shouldn't feel slow with 4 ath, it also makes your swings hard and fast.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Vodner on February 10, 2012, 12:44:52 am
ManOfWar uses a 24/15 build, and does very well with it. I prefer having more ath, but 24/15 is definitely solid.

Just be careful. The lower your athletics, the better you have to know the range of your weapon.

I would recommend getting one more point of shield so that you can use the huscarl. Even if you don't normally use one, being able to pick one up off the ground after having your shield break can easily save your life vs ranged opponents. There's nothing more frustrating than getting shot up while standing next to a shield you can't use.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: BaleOhay on February 10, 2012, 03:03:32 pm
I think I have done 10 generations of 1h/shield and still I am not sold on any one build.

Generally I stick to the 21/15 great all around build. Live long and move decent while still hitting hard enough to kill

Last gen I went 24/12 I did not notice I hit that much harder and I also did not feel I was that much slower then the 21/15 so really a style decision

I have also gone heavy in either direction with 27-30 str or 27-30 agilty felt like a one trick pony both directions.

I think this gen i will try thr 18/18. It was my very first build when i started playing the game (granted I was a thrower hybrid) so it might be time to give it another shot.

Ohay
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Kherr on February 10, 2012, 03:38:25 pm
I tried nearly all from balanced, agi based and str based. Personally I like str based builds most.
Imho it depends on:
 - playstyle (preferring 1:1, clusterfucks ...)
 - environment (open field, narrow castles, ...) -> battle/siege
 - length of the weapon (if the weapon ist short, you have to move to reach the enemy...)
 - weapondamage (e.g. piercing pick does not need a lot of str to deal damage)

Imo 5 shield is good. So you can use every widely used shield including huscarl. So I would go 24/15.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: Laufknoten on February 11, 2012, 04:47:22 pm
Quote from: BaleOhay on February 10, 2012, 03:03:32 pm
I think this gen i will try thr 18/18. It was my very first build when i started playing the game (granted I was a thrower hybrid) so it might be time to give it another shot.
The 18/18 build is viable, but good only with a mw weapon imo. I choose it as my favourite build, because of the 6 ath and 6 shield skill.
I think the 21/15 or 24/15 builds are the best. Those builds with a mw elite scim and a good shield are just easy-mode, every noob can get a lot of kills with this setup.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: rustyspoon on February 11, 2012, 05:11:40 pm
This has always been my favorite.

18 Str
21 Agil


6 PS
7 ATH
6 SHI
4 WM

1-h    138

It's a fantastic dueling build, but not that great for battle as teammates will fuck you over and over again. 1 hit in the back by a teammate and a str crutcher will 1-shot you.

If you're going the no shield route (which I recommend) this is the build I use.

18 Str
21 Agil


6 PS
6 IF
7 ATH
4 WM

1-h    138

You're hilariously fast and can take a good beating.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: CrimsonPigII on February 13, 2012, 11:21:23 pm
oh man im now caught right in the middle and need to decide

im now at 15 str and 15 agil - i can lean either way or go 50/50 again?

However i feel the gist of the feedback is a more str based character so i can really damage whilst keeping a resonable level of aths and wp...ive always played high agil but now next gen as sword and board.

decisions decisions....
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: ponyboy on February 14, 2012, 08:14:03 pm
Well I think I'm going for:

24str
15agi

6if
8ps
5ath
4shield
111wpf
(71hp)

My only reservation about this build will be to see just how much i feel the slower swing speed, we'll see.

And im trying to trade for a +3 italian sword, which seems impossible ;/
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: rustyspoon on February 14, 2012, 08:38:14 pm
Quote from: CrimsonPigII on February 13, 2012, 11:21:23 pm
oh man im now caught right in the middle and need to decide

im now at 15 str and 15 agil - i can lean either way or go 50/50 again?

However i feel the gist of the feedback is a more str based character so i can really damage whilst keeping a resonable level of aths and wp...ive always played high agil but now next gen as sword and board.

decisions decisions....

What's interesting to note though, with the exception of ManOWar most of the best shielders don't use strength heavy builds. Dan goes 18/18, I think Saul does 18/21, Balb last I heard was 18/24. (but who knows 'cause he could be level a million by now)

Str just doesn't scale well with 1h weapons. Especially when you get to the higher armor values the difference between 8 ps and 6 ps is barely there. If you can combine speed bonus and held attacks well like the above players do, you're fine and your added athletics can get you out of some tough situations. Str just works better with weapons that have a high damage value as ps increases are percentage based.
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: ponyboy on February 14, 2012, 08:53:34 pm
True.  Or maybe ill do this

18str 21agi

6if
6ps
4shield
7ath

111wpf
(65)hp


Damage is pretty low with 6ps and 111wpf though.   And if you put pts into WM then you have unexceptably low HP with 18/21 =/. oh what to do..
Title: Re: Next Gen 1hander build
Post by: CrimsonPigII on February 14, 2012, 10:59:54 pm
oh bums still a hard call - so a more balanced character and leaning towards agil

well im now 18 str and 15 agil, i can then decide to go for the all round stats...im still a newb with sword and board, im rarely having positive k/d but do my best to delay and get around flanks to help the team...

Cheers for advice guys

p.s has anyone written any sword and board fighting advice guides? i need to read up. CRPG really is a fantastic mod with these discussions on how to build a unique character using just a few stats!