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cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 11:48:41 am

Title: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 11:48:41 am
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,25086.0.html
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Snoozer on January 27, 2012, 11:55:32 am
 :oops: i feel like a fool ive been using such old data Q_Q

wait so does this mean that th 2h is now shorter then a 1h?

can someone verify this?
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Dezilagel on January 27, 2012, 12:00:43 pm
(click to show/hide)

The initiative is nice, but the stab on my poleaxe is definitively longer then the overhead :/ (for example, the stabs on 2h and 1h are also much, much longer than their swings)

I'm sorry, but I cannot take these figures seriously.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 12:02:07 pm
wait so does this mean that th 2h is now shorter then a 1h

Only when you do a right swing with same length weapon.

For example you have a bastard sword and if you equip a shield with it your right swing will reach farther then without the shield.

(click to show/hide)

The initiative is nice, but the stab on my poleaxe is definitively longer then the overhead :/

I'm sorry, but I cannot take these figures seriously.

Sorry but you are wrong even spears without a shield reach further overhead swinging.
You do have to aim for the head though to get a hit from it that far.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 27, 2012, 12:14:18 pm
how do you do these tests?
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 12:17:32 pm
how do you do these tests?

You find the maximum length of an attack on a stationary target. Then you find another type of swing/weapon that has almost exactly the same reach and write it down.
After a lot of those tests you end up with this.

Obviously this isn't 100% accurate but it is pretty close. Like I said I did TONS of tests :P
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Xant on January 27, 2012, 12:34:17 pm
These numbers seem very wrong. WALTF4 WHERE ARE YOU???
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 12:36:57 pm
These numbers seem very wrong. WALTF4 WHERE ARE YOU???

Why do people keep posting that they "feel" or "believe" it is wrong. Just try it out :P No religion vs logic here :)
These numbers are at least way more accurate then the old ones. (that were done with different animations long time ago)
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Xant on January 27, 2012, 12:50:44 pm
Vast majority of the animations are the same. The old ones back up what I've seen in game, your numbers don't.

Quote
1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50
Quote
*DISCLAIMER*
This test was done against a dummy, with modified weapon lenghts. Margin of error is probably around +/-3. For your information, testing this with no information about the reaches took a lot of time. If you want more accurate results you'll have to do it by yourself.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Leshma on January 27, 2012, 12:52:59 pm
Vast majority of the animations are the same. The old ones back up what I've seen in game, your numbers don't.

You don't even play the game...
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 27, 2012, 12:58:52 pm
You find the maximum length of an attack on a stationary target. Then you find another type of swing/weapon that has almost exactly the same reach and write it down.
After a lot of those tests you end up with this.

Obviously this isn't 100% accurate but it is pretty close. Like I said I did TONS of tests :P
sorry I still don't get. you define reach of 1h overhead and left swing on a stationary target as 0, then write down the differences to other weapons/attack types. But what exactly do you write down? what is your measure?
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 01:00:34 pm
Well I'm going afk for awhile so can't answer more questions. I do recommend people at least try the polearm stab vs swings for example and they see straight away that the old numbers are horribly wrong.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Dezilagel on January 27, 2012, 01:08:07 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2hjLl2Imz8

Not very accurate obv, but it proves my point.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 01:11:04 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2hjLl2Imz8

Not very accurate obv, but it proves my point.

It doesn't work to test this vs a wall. Ask a guy to stand still.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Dezilagel on January 27, 2012, 01:25:58 pm
He is right, we tested on persons and the same results weren't shown!

2h stab still outreaches everything, but the swings seem to be much closer to eachother in length than what the other values show.

Still not accurate enough to draw any conclusions, but I think this guy might have a point now.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Leshma on January 27, 2012, 01:36:04 pm
You see Dezi, I don't have anything against you. But I'm sick of this bullshit that is going on for a loong time. Call me conspiracy theorist, I don't care but there has been changes in last few patches and they didn't tell us shit.

I haven't been active for a little over 45 days and they already changed polestab from being very very very fast to instastab (almost impossible to chamber). They also did something with 1Hs, dunno what but those guys certainly couldn't swing so fast before (for example, Niuwedao is broken weapon). A lot of changes and I haven't read about any of them in patch notes.

Standard bullshit presented by c-rpg devs!
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Dezilagel on January 27, 2012, 02:00:41 pm
You see Dezi, I don't have anything against you. But I'm sick of this bullshit that is going on for a loong time. Call me conspiracy theorist, I don't care but there has been changes in last few patches and they didn't tell us shit.

I haven't been active for a little over 45 days and they already changed polestab from being very very very fast to instastab (almost impossible to chamber). They also did something with 1Hs, dunno what but those guys certainly couldn't swing so fast before (for example, Niuwedao is broken weapon). A lot of changes and I haven't read about any of them in patch notes.

Standard bullshit presented by c-rpg devs!

I am pretty sure the polestab is the same, at least it feels the same and looks the same to me :s

Also, as said, I'm not drawing any conclusions

Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Grumbs on January 27, 2012, 02:19:18 pm
Theres got to be a better way to display weapon lengths than what there is now. I don't think its healthy for people to be trying to guess what the devs have done to the game based on animation changes..people will just make arguments without having the full info or actually think the devs are trying to hide changes they make

How about all weapon lengths on the weapon stats simply show the range of the weapon for a stab (including animation), then you work out the other attacks based on that. So it takes into account where the weapon is held and animation, just gives an actual figure. If the weapon doesn't have a stab then you can still work out its range by subtracting whatever. Right now the weapon length doesn't really mean that much to me
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: cmp on January 27, 2012, 02:38:55 pm
I am pretty sure the polestab is the same, at least it feels the same and looks the same to me :s

That's because it wasn't touched in over 6 months. :lol:
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Xant on January 27, 2012, 02:47:20 pm
Cmp starts playing again and polestab is made instant with a ninja patch.. coincidence? I think not.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: v/onMega on January 27, 2012, 03:01:45 pm
Call it placebo....

But i really get big differences in feeling how my or the opponents swings connect....

Highly dependend on:

How many ppl. are on the server
Ping difference

I get 90-125 fps depending on the workload. No chance its related to my comp.

Lucky enough I ping in a 28 - 30 ms range.

Now often I feel confronted with different timings (we all know that split seconds are crucial in melee).

Happens mostly and best noticeable on EU1

never on EU3.

I assume this is related to a busy network code?
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: dodnet on January 27, 2012, 03:20:34 pm
I'm a polestabber and I didn't notice any difference in polestab.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Jarlek on January 27, 2012, 03:59:01 pm
I'm sorry but I'm gonna call your test bullshit and ignore your numbers. Yeah, I do know that cRPG changed some of the animations and that those numbers from the old test aren't completely correct now.

The reason I call bullshit is because of this right here:
(click to show/hide)

But nice that you tried getting the new numbers, but you did a big error somewhere and this can't be trusted then.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: gazda on January 27, 2012, 04:33:53 pm
I somewhat doubt the accuracy of these results.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Tristan on January 27, 2012, 04:37:40 pm
I see what is going on.

step 1: Nerf archery
step 2: Buff 2h.

Oh, lobbyist go home.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: ManOfWar on January 27, 2012, 05:34:07 pm
hmmm.. so the 1h overhead is long than the 1h right swing...

interesting
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: dodnet on January 27, 2012, 05:43:02 pm
Are you saying that the STAB of polearms (no shield) is the SHORTEST attack? Yeah, we all know the longest polearm attack is the stab (with shield), but the second longest one is the stab (without shield). Saying that all the swings and the overhead is longer than the stab (without shield) is just so, so wrong. I don't know what you have been smoking but you better start sharing!

Well funny thing is, he is partly right. Just take a polearm (glaive, lance), use the lookaround key and look from above your char. You will see that the overhead has a much longer reach then the stab. With the swings I'm unsure, they seem to have the same reach like stab.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Camaris on January 27, 2012, 05:50:17 pm
I'm sorry but I'm gonna call your test bullshit and ignore your numbers. Yeah, I do know that cRPG changed some of the animations and that those numbers from the old test aren't completely correct now.

The reason I call bullshit is because of this right here:
(click to show/hide)

But nice that you tried getting the new numbers, but you did a big error somewhere and this can't be trusted then.
Long story short:
blabla you are wrong blablabla
blablabla i won´t prove it blablabla
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: San on January 27, 2012, 05:55:08 pm
1h

Overhead         +50
Right                +40
Left                  +30
Stab                 +50

Can someone explain the range on 1h overheads? I'm not really sure about this. Also, +30 etc are compared to the weapon model lengths portrayed on the weapon stats?
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on January 27, 2012, 07:11:34 pm
I don't think pole stabs ar instant as much as, it just seems to lag the animation, half the time it seems to not show the thrust until it's already 3/4's to connecting (keep in mind that's a matter of like less than a second). Although, it is rather fast.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 08:41:29 pm
Guess it is pointless to share that the world actually isn't flat.

p.s. I didn't say anything got changed recently at all. It just hasn't been tested for a long long time.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: cmp on January 27, 2012, 08:42:36 pm
Most animations are identical to Native ones and haven't been changed, so either the guy who did the Native measurements is wrong or you're wrong.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 08:47:22 pm
Most animations are identical to Native ones and haven't been changed, so either the guy who did the Native measurements is wrong or you're wrong.

1. Go to a server.
2. Equip a 2h polearm.
3. Ask someone to stand still or you will ban him for life.
4. Ask him to hold an overhead defense up.
5. Swing overhead and make sure you aim for the head.
6. Slowly move forward until his block works.
7. Now try stabing him.
8. Scratch your head a bit.
9. Post your test here.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Nasturtium on January 27, 2012, 10:47:25 pm
I use the long awlpike a bunch, and I can confirm that the overhead is way longer than the stab, there are several factors for this. One is that the detection for the tip of a weapon when stabbing is all screwed up, you can poke at someone and see the tip go in, but they will not be hit whereas if you hit them with the tip of your spear using an overhead it does get detected. The second seems to be some weird thing with the arm/head hitbox, they feel more far forward than the body/legs.

 I dont know if momentum bonus has something to do with the stab; if you poke someone and twist, then the same animation that showed the tip hiting someone and doing nothing will sometimes hit.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Zerran on January 27, 2012, 10:58:19 pm
The second seems to be some weird thing with the arm/head hitbox, they feel more far forward than the body/legs.

While I totally disagree with the test results here (Seriously, go grab a bec and tell me you have about the same reach as a Nodachi on ANY swing. No tests needed to show how off these results are), Nasturtium seems to be onto something with this. If I'm chasing someone down with the pike, I always aim for the legs, because I can hit them at closer range than I can the head, which is what I normally aim for in a fight.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Paul on January 27, 2012, 11:02:41 pm
- StabbingHobo testing reach when a dummy is hit
- Arkonob testing reach when an attack is blocked
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 11:04:45 pm
- StabbingHobo testing reach when a dummy is hit
- Arkonob testing reach when an attack is blocked

Actually no. Used hit. But for your information you only block when it hits anyways.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 27, 2012, 11:10:36 pm
It seems however that people at c-rpg seem they all know it better then the next guy.
I guess if I want to show something I need to make a youtube video of the whole test process.
Not sure if I will though since the tests were done for myself and figured I share the results.
This will be my last post here at least.

Dismiss it. Test it. In the end it doesn't matter the game is still the same it was yesterday.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Paul on January 27, 2012, 11:11:29 pm
I tested it several times. 1h right swing has a greater reach than 1h overhead.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Zerran on January 27, 2012, 11:20:34 pm
I tested it several times. 1h right swing has a greater reach than 1h overhead.

I don't know what he messed up in his testing, but the numbers are completely off. Anyone saying the bec's right swing has the same reach as the war cleaver's right swing has been smoking some serious shit.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: WaltF4 on January 28, 2012, 12:27:50 am
Thank you for your efforts, Arkonor. Here are some comments for you to consider:

A blocking target produces a temporary hitbox (it lasts for the duration the block is held and I don't know a better term, so I'll use that for now) at a position different than the target's normal hitbox. This can be seen most clearly with a thrust that barely reaches the temporary hitbox of a blocking target. If the target stops blocking and another thrust is made along an identical path, then that thrust will hit nothing. Presumably blocking works by generating a temporary hitbox that is between the normal hitbox of a blocking target and an attack traveling along a path that would otherwise reach the normal hitbox of the target. I would assume the different blocking directions produce temporary hitboxes at different locations relative to the attacker and target. I do not know how far forward and up the temporary hitbox for an up block is relative to a down block. Do you know far from the normal hitboxes these temporary hitboxes are located?

Also, aiming a thrust or side swing up or down decrease the horizontal distance the weapon will travel away from the attacker. For example, thrusts straight up into the air or straight into the ground travels no horizontal distance away. This is not the case for overhead attacks which do not have a dependence on the polar angle that the attacker is aimed at, so looking up or down does not effect the path a overhead attack swing with travel. I suspect that side swings also do not travel such that the maximum reach is constant (their tip does not follow a circular path.) Did you control your tests for this?

I suspect the above reasons are why Stabbing Hobo used a practice dummy as the target for all of his test and why he used an overhead attack as the reference for all other attacks.



- StabbingHobo testing reach when a dummy is hit
- Arkonob testing reach when an attack is blocked

This, more or less.
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Thomek on January 28, 2012, 02:53:28 am
- StabbingHobo testing reach when a dummy is hit
- Arkonob testing reach when an attack is blocked

Funny thing neither is correct then. Should be tested on a non blocking player from different angles and with different "Turn into the swing" positions. (I suspect the 1h right swing gets longer if u turn into the swing i.ex) Thanks for your efforts Arkonor like walt said. These numbers have been used for so many arguments in the forums its kinda revolutionary info :)

Edit: Read that u did test on non blocking player..
Title: Re: Animations retested
Post by: Arkonor on January 28, 2012, 08:03:57 am
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,25086.0.html