cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Apsod on January 25, 2012, 01:49:29 pm

Title: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Apsod on January 25, 2012, 01:49:29 pm
After thinking about it for a while I realised that the devs should rather buff other classes when one class is OP instead of nerfing that single class. Let me explain why.

When you nerf a class, no matter how OP that class might be, everyone playing it gets sad and if  they have put much time into getting the perfect looms for that class it is even more annoying. Even for people that are not that class it is annoying when it gets nerfed, simply because then it does not seems as fun to pick that class anymore because it is worse that what it used to.

If you buff the other classes instead the OP class wont feel that he has been nerfed + all the other classes are happy because they got buffed. Now everyone likes being buffed instead of nerfed.

Every single patch I see something that gets nerfed, and rarely something is buffed, but every time I see that something gets nerfed I go "Oh well, I guess I wont be going that class anytime soon :("

If you compare this mod to native, then every single piece of equipment has been nerfed. Almost everything has been nerfed at one point which results in everything being sucky, and that is no fun!


Short version: Buff all other classes when one class is OP instead of nerfing that class.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Overdriven on January 25, 2012, 01:51:49 pm
And then we get back right to where we started and have to nerf again  :D
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: [ptx] on January 25, 2012, 01:53:04 pm
Nerf is not a fixed modifier, you don't determine the strength/viability of a class by the number of "nerfs" it has received. Stupid, stupid mentality... :|
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Apsod on January 25, 2012, 01:54:37 pm
Quote from: Overdriven on January 25, 2012, 01:51:49 pm
And then we get back right to where we started and have to nerf again  :D
No, just keep buffing untill it is all balanced. Of course everything might get to OP in the end, but that will take some time, but when it happens then yes, the nerfing would probably start again.
Quote from: [ptx] on January 25, 2012, 01:53:04 pm
Nerf is not a fixed modifier, you don't determine the strength/viability of a class by the number of "nerfs" it has received. Stupid, stupid mentality... :|
I didn`t say that, I just said that things should be buffed instead of nerfed.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: [ptx] on January 25, 2012, 01:58:45 pm
You didn't say that, but you think that way. "Oh, they gonna add 1 nerf to my class, rather add 1 buff to other class"
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: B3RS3RK on January 25, 2012, 02:01:31 pm
Problem is, if we keep buffing, at a certain time we will be in the state of Onehit Lightsabers for melee and pinpoint accuracy Oneshots over the whole map for ranged.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Apsod on January 25, 2012, 02:25:22 pm
Quote from: [ptx] on January 25, 2012, 01:58:45 pm
You didn't say that, but you think that way. "Oh, they gonna add 1 nerf to my class, rather add 1 buff to other class"
Why made you think that I think that way? :?
Quote from: B3RS3RK on January 25, 2012, 02:01:31 pm
Problem is, if we keep buffing, at a certain time we will be in the state of Onehit Lightsabers for melee and pinpoint accuracy Oneshots over the whole map for ranged.
I was hoping the game would be balanced at some point so there would be no more buffs and nerfs, but if it keeps going untill the point everything is extremely OP you could just start nerfing again. Of course only buffing things might be a bit too extreme, but atm they almost never buff things.

Oh and melee would never get onehit lightsabers if everything else had been buffed, the armor would be too strong :wink:
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: [ptx] on January 25, 2012, 02:28:03 pm
Well, i dunno... :rolleyes:

How about... no... that can't be it... YOUR THREAD? :o
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Apsod on January 25, 2012, 02:29:33 pm
Oh wow, that.... is.. insane! :shock:
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 25, 2012, 02:37:21 pm
I couldn't care less and don't see any difference other than more work for the devs and maybe some psychological effect for the sensitive.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Torben on January 25, 2012, 02:46:50 pm
Quote from: apsod on January 25, 2012, 01:49:29 pm
Short version: Buff all other classes when one class is OP instead of nerfing that class.

finally someone who understands how cav should be.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Teeth on January 25, 2012, 02:48:36 pm
Been yelling this for ages, shits too slow, undeadly and slow paced.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Christo on January 25, 2012, 02:50:27 pm
Quote from: Torben on January 25, 2012, 02:46:50 pm
finally someone who understands how cav should be.

(click to show/hide)

lol

+1 For making me laugh.  :)
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Bongo Fury on January 25, 2012, 02:54:53 pm
Quote from: B3RS3RK on January 25, 2012, 02:01:31 pm
Problem is, if we keep buffing, at a certain time we will be in the state of Onehit Lightsabers for melee and pinpoint accuracy Oneshots over the whole map for ranged.

This, balance needs to go both ways, or else you get power-creep.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Old Autobus on January 25, 2012, 03:00:25 pm
Quote from: SgtTeeh on January 25, 2012, 02:48:36 pm
shits too slow, undeadly and slow paced.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: dodnet on January 25, 2012, 03:17:10 pm
Quote from: Torben on January 25, 2012, 02:46:50 pm
finally someone who understands how cav should be.

(click to show/hide)

You failed: That unicorn has no horn!
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Dezilagel on January 25, 2012, 03:18:50 pm
Quote from: dodnet on January 25, 2012, 03:17:10 pm
You failed: That unicorn has no horn!

Maybe it's a Pegasus?
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Muki on January 25, 2012, 03:31:22 pm
Quote from: dodnet on January 25, 2012, 03:17:10 pm
You failed: That unicorn has no horn!
pretty sure unicorns don't have wings
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 25, 2012, 03:52:46 pm
I understand what you mean, but other things would happen:

1. at a certain point all classes would be so strong that everyone dies after one hit/shot
2. the op class will cry as hell when all classes get buffed and only they do not --> something will happen because whining always makes our devs sad so they change something to stop the tears

Nerfing is ok, but it would be nice if nerfs weren't, as they always are in crpg, so strong that they almost destroy the concerning class until a new patch with a buff comes.
Slight nerfing and testing instead of hardcorenerfing. Would be really great but I assume it's never gonna happen :/
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: karasu on January 25, 2012, 03:55:04 pm
There will always be Q_Q and nothing can be done about it. You can't please Greeks and Trojans, such is the behavior of e-manity.

Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Polobow on January 25, 2012, 04:05:58 pm
Buffing eventually leads to less survival time, and i don't want alot of people 1 or 2 hitting with builds.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: dodnet on January 25, 2012, 04:40:06 pm
Quote from: Muki on January 25, 2012, 03:31:22 pm
pretty sure unicorns don't have wings

It's my fantasy, pretty sure they have  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: 22nd_deprav on January 26, 2012, 01:50:06 am
but if you buff the nerf because of the burff getting neff to the derp,  wouldn't it be silly ?
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Torben on January 26, 2012, 02:27:34 am
Quote from: dodnet on January 25, 2012, 03:17:10 pm
You failed: That unicorn has no horn!

Thats cause us cavs are proud and very manly men,  with a keen sense for realism!  unrealistic fairy crap like unicorns are laughable.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: MeevarTheMighty on January 26, 2012, 03:10:06 am
I agree that the game is at its slowest thanks to almost only nerfs for a very long time. Nerfs are inherantly more un-fun and a few classes feel broken at the moment.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Snoozer on January 26, 2012, 08:45:24 am
well they could just increasi the speed to make things faster you dont need to recode EVERYTHING to make things fast again...

if im not mistaken they made things slower for new people and high pingers to be able to compete and have the learning curve at a slight angle instead of a 90 degree angle that it once was

well right now it seems that things are getting "balanced" things can never be balanced even the most balanced games there is still that one class/race/character with a 5% more wins then the rest .and the people always say its "OP" and nerfed it to where it was 15% lower then where it was i 4got what game it was it pissed me off so bad.it was a 55% win/lose ratio knocked down to 40% win/loose

i cant vouch for range though i have not been one for a while.they did buff throwing though i see the difference is notable, before you had to be a pure throw troll do barely kill now it does not seem that way i consider them more of a threat then they use to be

but i am ranting morel of the story is everyone always say something like rock paper scissors nonsense ("rock is op says the scissors")
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: 22nd_deprav on January 27, 2012, 08:36:19 am
it's pretty balanced now, only throwing is way underpowered as are xbows apparently.
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on January 27, 2012, 08:54:58 am
Quote from: Overdriven on January 25, 2012, 01:51:49 pm
And then we get back right to where we started and have to nerf again  :D

Actualy infinte buffing is possible, but infinite nerfing has a limit.

If the weapons become so powerfull they one hit plate, buff armour or HP. If bows do too much damage buff soak (which is what happened right? They buffed body soak and it killed ranged???)

Anyway, numbers can grow larger but what happens if you have negative armour or swords that do negative damage, thats a world gone topsy tervy! PURE MADNESS!
Title: Re: Buff instead of nerf!
Post by: Kafein on January 27, 2012, 09:12:10 am
It's all the same. The only thing that isn't counter-scaled by another stat is weapon speed. Thing is, you can't e.g. nerf archery by increasing the weapon speed of melee weapons across the board. It's not going to work. Melee weapon speed can't help against ranged. Just as much as, for example, shield speed can't help shielded cavalry protect their horse (not themselves).

Quote from: FRANK_THE_TANK on January 27, 2012, 08:54:58 am
Actualy infinte buffing is possible, but infinite nerfing has a limit.

If the weapons become so powerfull they one hit plate, buff armour or HP. If bows do too much damage buff soak (which is what happened right? They buffed body soak and it killed ranged???)

Anyway, numbers can grow larger but what happens if you have negative armour or swords that do negative damage, thats a world gone topsy tervy! PURE MADNESS!

Nerfs and buffs are multiplicative. You'll never end up with negative damage or negative armor. Even though that could actually work, because a hit forces damage calculation, and negative armor could hurt you more than the amount of HP you win by being struck by a negative damage weapon, another cool feature is that it could introduce medic stuff like a healing "weapon" to use on teammates xD. Anyway, as their are multiplicative, nerfing shit means numbers are less and less accurate because they are forced to remain integers. If we continued on nerfing, pretty much every stat of every item would end up being 1.

Honestly, I don't think worrying about this is really necessary, as each nerf comes with a good batch of stealth stat buffs/nerfs. We only see the nerfs because people complain about them, but there are plenty of buffs too. As I said, it's exactly the same thing, except from a psychological point of view, so why bother spending ages trying to tinker the whole mod each time you want to nerf one weapon.