cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Black Wind on January 25, 2012, 11:50:31 am
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Hello all!
Before you ask, yes, I am a horse lancer.
Now, before you jump to conclusions, if you've spent a gen as cav, I'm sure you're aware that it's borderline impossible to make profit with even a Rouncey, Heraldic Mail with Surcoat, Mail Coif, Knightly Arming Sword, and a standard Lance. My average multiplier is averaged at around 4 also.
Suggestions:
Lower upkeep on horses.
Factor in riding skill to alter upkeep. Perhaps each level of riding should decrease mount upkeep by 7.5%?
Reduce upkeep generally, to allow more play-styles to be factored in.
Increase gold and exp gains with retirement.
What are your thoughts?
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I make money with rouncey and Rus Scale with arabian cav sword and elite cav shield.
I mainly play using a champ destrier though and I tend to lose money, albeit slowly, when using the above setup with my destrier. In 2 mil xp Ive lost roughly 15k gold and my multiplier has probably been higher than average also. I find that quite an acceptable loss tbh since im wearing pretty heavy armour for a horse, using high tier 1h equipment AND riding the most expensive medium tier horse.
That said, I think factoring in riding skill to reduce the chance of your horse breaking is a good idea but if that happens I think we would see a big influx of new cavalry players. The problem is that we dont want cav to become too popular like archery did, because then people will whine and devs will have to do something drastic to decrease the attractiveness of cavalry as a class in order to reduce the numbers. At the minute, the only thing keeping the numbers reasonably low is the fact that it is an expensive class to play.
TLDR: Keep upkeep how it is.
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Being both light and heavy cav,i say no. This will only increase numbers of cavalry---> more anti-cav whine on the forums--->cav gets nerfed again. And it's been nerfed enough already.
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l2p issue
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l2p issue
Ironic how an NA is telling me to 'l2p'.... Refer to previous post for the rest of the convo.
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I make money with rouncey and Rus Scale with arabian cav sword and elite cav shield.
I mainly play using a champ destrier though and I tend to lose money, albeit slowly, when using the above setup with my destrier. In 2 mil xp Ive lost roughly 15k gold and my multiplier has probably been higher than average also. I find that quite an acceptable loss tbh since im wearing pretty heavy armour for a horse, using high tier 1h equipment AND riding the most expensive medium tier horse.
That said, I think factoring in riding skill to reduce the chance of your horse breaking is a good idea but if that happens I think we would see a big influx of new cavalry players. The problem is that we dont want cav to become too popular like archery did, because then people will whine and devs will have to do something drastic to decrease the attractiveness of cavalry as a class in order to reduce the numbers. At the minute, the only thing keeping the numbers reasonably low is the fact that it is an expensive class to play.
TLDR: Keep upkeep how it is.
Rus Scale with cav? Making money? I don't even know what's going on there.
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Rus Scale with cav? Making money? I don't even know what's going on there.
Knightly Arming Sword, and a standard Lance.
arabian cav sword and elite cav shield.
= Difference of a few thousand gold.
With my Rouncey, Light Kuyak, Sarranid Veiled Helmet, Light Lance, some shield I almost break even in earning/losing money. Its all about the gear.
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This will only increase numbers of cavalry---> more anti-cav whine on the forums--->cav gets nerfed again. And it's been nerfed enough already.
So, no.
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I can say from the HA pov, unless I use bodkins (or have a x1 for days), I gain money. That's courser, horn bow, 3 stacks barbs, kazakh armour, leather gloves.
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IMO it should be painful to be a CAV player... Ergo, upkeep costs should make them wince every time they end a round until they decide being a lowly footman is the best route for them.
That way only the sado-mashocists and sociopaths become the only cav on the map.
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I'm making loads of money with a steppe horse, heavy lance, padded jack and my trusty felt hat.
Using mail boots and wisby gauntlets too, but those are hardly the cost.
I wonder how much I will lose/gain when I swap to the arabian, but that will take some time.
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l2p issue
This but less cynical.
Scale armor, bascinet, splinted greaves over mail, mail gauntlets, italian sword, elite cav shield, heavy lance, courser
I make money.
Making money is very much determined by what team you are banner balanced with and your ability to help that team. If all goes right, a x5 all day isn't a distant dream to catch
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the proble with the costs is that new players can't even afford to be cavalry, which sucks for them, this mod is all about being whoever you want to be and whatever you want to fight with, with cavalry like this, you can't. and nerfing cavalry instead of high upkeep isn't the solution. but what else could do the trick...
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My point exactly. The real question is, who are the devs balancing this game off of? Veterans like myself or new players?
If balance is done off of either the game becomes either too hard or too easy.
There needs to be balance off of your average player.
something I haven't seen in a patch in a while
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Being both light and heavy cav,i say no. This will only increase numbers of cavalry---> more anti-cav whine on the forums--->cav gets nerfed again. And it's been nerfed enough already.
My (egoistic) feelings exactly. I try to play only when I'm in a good day (good day kdr: 17-2, bad day kdr: 6-5, I don't know about my average multi), and I slowly earn money with that setup :
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Funny to see many long time horsemen disaggree to a reduction of cav upkeep. But I think this shows we don't really like the current increase in cav either x)
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My (egoistic) feelings exactly. I try to play only when I'm in a good day (good day kdr: 17-2, bad day kdr: 6-5, I don't know about my average multi), and I slowly earn money with that setup :
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Funny to see many long time horsemen disaggree to a reduction of cav upkeep. But I think this shows we don't really like the current increase in cav either x)
and most of the people here that are forum people already have shitload of money an don't need the upkeep reduction to be able to play the kind of cav they want. :wink:
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I sold an heirloom and now I don't worry about upkeep.
Realism: I'm rich, thus I can now play as a heavy cavalryman.
/thread.
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Cavalry is nerfed to be on a level playing field with other classes (imo it's worse off than infantry, but then, I play in a different arena to most c-rpg players), so it makes sense to nerf the upkeep to something comparable. The original idea of upkeep was to let people play in high tier gear only when wealthy from using low tier gear, but what we have now is two balance systems that seem somewhat indipendant of each other and a few classes are much worse off for it.
Never ever see plated archers these days, though they're often shown in medieval manuscripts and were a pretty cool part of the mod back when upkeep wasn't included in the balancing factors. Of course I hated them in person, but it's a shame to see them gone. They're gone because they are subject to upkeep and they're also subject to all of the things that kept them to a minimum before upkeep.
Cavalry is still viable, but it's reduced to killing peasants and the unattentive, which seems like a pretty pathetic niche for a class with unrivalled potential upkeep.
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Well, while upkeep does to some extent reduce the number of heavily armored archers, the far more significant issue is that armor reduces wpf, which is particularly important to archers, who cannot take advantage of their powerdraw without a sufficient amount of wpf. It's probably only worth taking heavy armor if you expect some melee fighting, but then you'll have to divert those precious wpp to melee. In terms of realism, the problem is that armor (excepting the helmet) really shouldn't influence accuracy much. At most, it should influence reload/draw speed.
It would be cool to see plated longbowmen.
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It would be cool to see plated longbowmen.
On a horse? Uhhmmmm... NO!
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Well, while upkeep does to some extent reduce the number of heavily armored archers, the far more significant issue is that armor reduces wpf, which is particularly important to archers, who cannot take advantage of their powerdraw without a sufficient amount of wpf. It's probably only worth taking heavy armor if you expect some melee fighting, but then you'll have to divert those precious wpp to melee. In terms of realism, the problem is that armor (excepting the helmet) really shouldn't influence accuracy much. At most, it should influence reload/draw speed.
It would be cool to see plated longbowmen.
Exactly, that's why pre-upkeep there were a few running around, but it was by no means the majority of archers. They were already subject to the balance of the day.
Now that upkeep has been slapped on top, apparently disregarding previous balance, it's too much.
In short, it doesn't feel like upkeep balance has been very well thought out and several classes would be much better off if it were.
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I miss the very wide range of pre-patch build diversity. :cry: