cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Tears of Destiny on February 25, 2011, 07:25:56 am

Title: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 25, 2011, 07:25:56 am
I wanted to do something different to take a break from my Dedicated Archer, Shield-and-Mace, polearm characters, so here is something a wee bit different for me.

I would appreciate any critique/thoughts. Please remember the theme for this character before suggesting I swap out something for something else, thank you!  :D

New Load Out
Spiked Helmet
Byrnie (I almost said Mailed Shirt, but it looks like it has a blue shirt, and the Byrnie looks red so it will fit the shield better due to the red Roman Legion Emblem. Yes, I want to color-coordinate, I gotta look spiffy when you kill me)
Heavy Board Shield
Short Broad Sword
Throwing Lances (1 pair, not sure I can afford to upkeep all of this and two pairs of Throwing Lances).

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 56
Converted: 2

Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 5
Power Throw: 7
Weapon Master: 5

One Handed: 123
Throwing: 100

Old Load-Out
Barbutte,
Red Tunic over Mail
Heavy Board Shield (It should display the roman Legion Symbol in the banner pack nicely)
Broad Short Sword
Throwing Spears OR Throwing Lances (Can not decide, they both look similar to Pila)
UNUSED: Glove slot, Boot slot, 1 Equip slot.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 15
Agility: 21
Hit points: 50
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 7
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 5
Weapon Master: 7
One Handed: 146
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 100

Thoughts? Just trying to make an amusing themed character here and keep in spirit of the theme.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Formless on February 25, 2011, 08:24:36 am
Lol, I was actually thinking of doing the same build come next gen.  Looking forward to finding out how it works out for you.

Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 25, 2011, 08:31:33 am
Quote from: Formless on February 25, 2011, 08:24:36 am
Lol, I was actually thinking of doing the same build come next gen.  Looking forward to finding out how it works out for you.

Heh, interesting to hear, I am highly amused right now. When my computer comes back from the repair shop this weekend I will fire it up and take it for a spin with this build.

I think I should have some fun with it, the equipment is relatively cheap and easy to upkeep, and the build is quick to level into considering my requirements are low for everything but the shield (And I can use the lesser versions until I get up to 15 Agility).

Will post an update later on if this is the build I plan on using.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: bruce on February 25, 2011, 04:07:26 pm
If you want to use throwing lances (which imo fit better then throwing spears), you'll need a 21/15 build with 7 PT (the lance requirement). They're also a bitch to upkeep if you use multiple stacks. On the upside you can use one as a spear, they've got quite a nasty stab, and of course, even with 7 PT many people will die in one hit, especially if they are moving forward.

That said... I don't think the barbutte has the proper "look" for roman style (neither does the tunic over mail but I guess it's passable), a open helm fits better. Maybe try a spiked helm? Or some other open-face helmet.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 25, 2011, 06:07:37 pm
Hmm, I said the Barbutte because it has the cheek protection, but looking at the helmet list better now that I am awake...
White Steppe Helmet, Khergit War Helmet, Spiked Helmet all seem to work (more or less) for that Roman look. For a later ERE/Byzantine look the Sarranid Veiled Helm works, but that would be best I think for a Cavalry/Varangian Guard look with lamellar armor.


New Build:
Spiked Helmet
Byrnie (I almost said Mailed Shirt, but it looks like it has a blue shirt, and the Byrnie looks red so it will fit the shield better due to the red Roman Legion Emblem. Yes, I want to color-coordinate, I gotta look spiffy when you kill me)
Heavy Board Shield
Short Broad Sword
Throwing Lances (1 pair, not sure I can afford to upkeep all of this and two pairs of Throwing Lances).

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 56
Converted: 2

Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 5
Power Throw: 7
Weapon Master: 5

One Handed: 123
Throwing: 100
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: bruce on February 25, 2011, 07:24:11 pm
With 1 pair you fall below upkeep and make money, with 2 pairs of throwing lances you might be actually sustainable, should be around 36-37K roughly. I use about that much when I'm on a horse and it seems upkeepable to me, but a good cash buffer doesn't hurt since random x1 runs happen (but x5 runs, too).

Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Nihtgenga on February 26, 2011, 08:35:12 pm
Mh...If you choose lances as your throwing weapon I wouldnt put any wpf points into throwing. as you only got 2 or 4 lances to throw you will use them only on very close range and I believe that in this case any wpf points would be wasted. I have a hybrid thrower/pole with over 100 wpf points in throwing and I cant really tell a difference to 0 wpf.
maybe you should make an throwing alt before you do your legionnaire to check if you feel a magnificant difference between 0 and 100 points, especially on close range.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tigerclaw on February 28, 2011, 02:25:10 am
Finally, a contemporary for my Greek Hoplite!

And may I suggest that you consider the bascinet, as it has a vaugely Illryian/Roman look to me...
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Formless on February 28, 2011, 09:20:44 am
Go with the Grosse Messer instead of the Short Broad Sword.  Messer is only -1 shorter but it gives you +7 cut for the swing.  True the Messer is -6 in the thrust department as compared to the Short Broad Sword, but you will probably swing more then thrust so its worth it. 

Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tigerclaw on February 28, 2011, 09:33:59 am
Messer really doesn't make me think of a gladius, though...
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Vibe on February 28, 2011, 10:18:00 am
Tbh short broad sword is barely a gladius too. But I guess that's the closest you can get to a gladius.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tigerclaw on February 28, 2011, 11:57:17 am
More Greek and Roman equipment would be awesome...
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Sharky on March 01, 2011, 02:37:45 am
Quote from: Tigerclaw on February 28, 2011, 11:57:17 am
More Greek and Roman equipment would be awesome...
+1 we already have ninjas and samurais, give us some proper roman equip, some late roman armour and medieval byzantine armour would be cool :(
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Keshian on March 01, 2011, 05:07:32 pm
Go with the Light Mail and Plate (its red) as it matches very welll with the late Western Roman Empire uniform.  Also, go with throwing spears as theya ctually match more historically with pilum, throwing lances are fantasy as no one threw weapons that long as too much power would be lost by the weight.  But throwing spears are close to the length of pilum, which were about 3 feet in length.  The Khergit War Helmet best matches the later era of the Western Roman Empire with its chain mail links.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 01, 2011, 06:46:54 pm
Alright, first off thank you all for the replies, as at one point or another I gave you all cookies.

Now, after experimenting and buying stuff to experiment for that "look' I want (I can afford to waste gold as this build does not even have boots or gloves! ahahaha, I love how cheap he is for upkeep), I think I may stick with my stat build as the 100 in throwing is starting to make a difference if I actually stand still. It is also nice to quickly throw something and then bring the shield back up, the snapshots of 100 wpf I am starting to appreciate.

The Byrnie did not quite look as I thought it would though, so I will buy the Light Mail and Plate and compare when I quickly get that money. The only thing I am clueless on is the throwing javelins as I have yet to hit that 21 STR required for them, so I will obviously try out the look of the others first and buy each one and expeiment (God knows I have the gold). Pilum were 5 1/2 to 7 feet in length, so hopefully one of them comes a wee bit close in looks.


All in all regardless, I am having more fun with this then I thought I would, so this very well may end up being a primary character instead of an off-the-wall I-am-bored alt. That Heavy Board Shield is starting to grow on me, I like the HP, and the Roman legion symbol looks just fantastic on it.

Thanks everyone! I look forward to you gloriously slaughtering me on the batlefield.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Dravic on March 01, 2011, 07:32:52 pm
You mad? 21 for javelins? it needs... lets see... 9 str to use them. 3 power throw.


21 str is for throwing lances. And you should use throwing spears for style. 5 pt req = 15 str req.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 01, 2011, 07:37:59 pm
Eh,, I meant the throwing lances required 21, heh.

AND YES I AM MAD WIHT POWA! BWHAHAHAHAHHAHsputtersputterchoke...wheeze...

Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Formless on March 01, 2011, 09:31:15 pm
Is there a banner pack that works with CRPG that has the Roman banner?
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Sharky on March 01, 2011, 09:45:08 pm
Sadly there isn't nothing that resemble roman equipment in this mod  :cry:. In fact our clan, tough post-roman, has no armour requirements on crpg, and on strategus we just go with the gay red tunic over mail and the even more gayer kettle helmet.

But if you use the crpg bannerpack there is our banner, is the painting over an imperial roman shield. Here you go.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/bannerlegio.jpg/)
It replace the "venetian" banner (the yellow lion on red background) the thing that most resemble a roman banner in native.
On a shield it looks awesome, and it looks quite good on an heraldic armour i think :wink:

You can see it on some proud post-legionaries of our clan
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 01, 2011, 10:50:21 pm
That is the exact banner I am using, since it looks sexy and appropriate. That banner is what inspired me to make Castiel_Komnenos, in all honesty.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Formless on March 02, 2011, 03:33:56 am
I am sure this is going to sound pretty stupid but how do I put that  banner into the game?
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Sharky on March 02, 2011, 03:59:15 am
Quote from: Formless on March 02, 2011, 03:33:56 am
I am sure this is going to sound pretty stupid but how do I put that  banner into the game?
Download this and just follow the readme http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7737281/cRPG_CustomBanners_ClanPackv040.rar  :wink:.
People with this file with see you with the roman banner, others will see you with the "venetian" native banner
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Formless on March 02, 2011, 05:42:08 am
Thanks so much  :D
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Vibe on March 02, 2011, 07:33:02 am
Make sure you post a pic once you're "fashioned" up
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Formless on March 02, 2011, 08:15:53 pm
Quote from: Vibe on March 02, 2011, 07:33:02 am
Make sure you post a pic once you're "fashioned" up

+1

Definetly post a screen shot, looking forward to seeing the Roman look.

Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 02, 2011, 09:53:28 pm
Hmm, will be up by the end of the week-ish, depending on how much time I can sink in to level properly, heh.

Thank you all for the interest!
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Formless on March 08, 2011, 02:15:23 am
So what does it look like?
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Huey Newton on March 08, 2011, 02:41:09 am
Quote from: Tears_of_Destiny on February 25, 2011, 07:25:56 am
I wanted to do something different to take a break from my Dedicated Archer, Shield-and-Mace, polearm characters, so here is something a wee bit different for me.

I would appreciate any critique/thoughts. Please remember the theme for this character before suggesting I swap out something for something else, thank you!  :D

New Load Out
Spiked Helmet
Byrnie (I almost said Mailed Shirt, but it looks like it has a blue shirt, and the Byrnie looks red so it will fit the shield better due to the red Roman Legion Emblem. Yes, I want to color-coordinate, I gotta look spiffy when you kill me)
Heavy Board Shield
Short Broad Sword
Throwing Lances (1 pair, not sure I can afford to upkeep all of this and two pairs of Throwing Lances).

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 56
Converted: 2

Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 5
Power Throw: 7
Weapon Master: 5

One Handed: 123
Throwing: 100

Old Load-Out
Barbutte,
Red Tunic over Mail
Heavy Board Shield (It should display the roman Legion Symbol in the banner pack nicely)
Broad Short Sword
Throwing Spears OR Throwing Lances (Can not decide, they both look similar to Pila)
UNUSED: Glove slot, Boot slot, 1 Equip slot.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 15
Agility: 21
Hit points: 50
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 7
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 5
Weapon Master: 7
One Handed: 146
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 100

Thoughts? Just trying to make an amusing themed character here and keep in spirit of the theme.





heavy board shield = scutum
italian falchion = gladius
bascinet = helmet
red corrazina = lorcia segmentata
throwing spears = pila

legio italica's banner

there you go

wrapping boots
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on March 08, 2011, 03:06:41 am
I actually did a legionare back when my character was talutah_rs.

So, couple of things....heavy board shield? terrible idea, its heavy and slow. Use a regular board shield, you'll be more combat effective since its slighty faster and definitely lighter. Dont worry, that baby wont break anytime soon either.

Sword options (gladiesque)-
short nordic war sword- higher cut, very fast
short arming sword- higher stab, less cut, very fast
sword of whine- a slightly longer arming sword
gross messer- high cut, worse stab, little slower than the others

Armor options-
Any of those middle mails that are made for norse including drz
Also consider the banded armor, or the cuir de buille

helmet:
spiked helmet-goes without saying
milanese sallet-same structure as a roman helmet actually just has a face mask
nordic warlord helmet- maybe?
steppe helmets-more of a thing worn by foreign conscripts into the legion

hand:
leather gloves at most with hand armor

Foot:
splinted leather greaves over mail


For your build, drop the wpf for throwing. Completly unecessary, especially at 7pt. Get to the front lines, throw all your javies like candy and then fight with a sword.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Huey Newton on March 08, 2011, 03:27:39 am
Quote from: Spa_geh_tea on March 08, 2011, 03:06:41 am
I actually did a legionare back when my character was talutah_rs.

So, couple of things....heavy board shield? terrible idea, its heavy and slow. Use a regular board shield, you'll be more combat effective since its slighty faster and definitely lighter. Dont worry, that baby wont break anytime soon either.

Sword options (gladiesque)-
short nordic war sword- higher cut, very fast
short arming sword- higher stab, less cut, very fast
sword of whine- a slightly longer arming sword
gross messer- high cut, worse stab, little slower than the othersArmor options-
Any of those middle mails that are made for norse including drz
Also consider the banded armor, or the cuir de buille

helmet:
spiked helmet-goes without saying
milanese sallet-same structure as a roman helmet actually just has a face mask
nordic warlord helmet- maybe?
steppe helmets-more of a thing worn by foreign conscripts into the legion

hand:
leather gloves at most with hand armor

Foot:
splinted leather greaves over mail


For your build, drop the wpf for throwing. Completly unecessary, especially at 7pt. Get to the front lines, throw all your javies like candy and then fight with a sword.

all too long to be a gladius
needs to be of short sword type
italian falchion
70 length
thats a real short sword
 :twisted:
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 08, 2011, 05:10:29 pm
Hmm, thank you all for the suggestions, and I will start posting my screen shots soon of my crappy dude once I get a wee bit more money.

Anywho...

sidenote:
I also am not using a Gladius but more of a Spatha, as it is more of a proper Roman Weapon (I am aiming for more of a later period).

I will look into that Italian Falchion though just to see, as well as the regular board shield and such. I have noticed that the Heavy Board Shield is slowing me down considerably, though it was nice to use it and win against a 2Her axe maniac.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on March 08, 2011, 07:42:26 pm
A spatha you say, well then sir......sarranid guard sword is your weapon then. Very impressive weapon and very cheap.
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: LordRichrich on March 08, 2011, 09:52:09 pm
I beleive (correct me if I'm wrong) that by the spatha period (by which I mean it becoming the main weapon) the shields had become more rounded?
And you may also want to try out war darts as very similar were used by the romans, you get 7 and they're cheaper :)
Also, this might be out dated as I haven't played in a while, but throwing accuraccy is still increased by PT?
If so, 100 wpf in throwing is a waste IMO
My pure str throw only has 30 throwing wpf and has pretty awesome accurracy
Either invest the throwing wpf into your 1h or into polearm so you can use a war spear. Despite the "one attack direction" complaints about that build they are actually really effective if you have a team mate around.
Defintly throwing spears instead of lances IMO too
I'm thinking of composing a Roman units (based off Total War I admit) guide but currently WB won't work for me and I find the armours slightly lacking somewhat. If anyone wants to help me compile it PM me :)
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 09, 2011, 07:43:09 am
Early spatha period they were still using the wee weird turtle shields (Scutum? SP?), anywho.

I finally took my screenshots of the "light" build and the "heavy" build, four of them, and I will post them here as soon as I figure out how to get Steam to give them to me. After I post the pictures here, I will go ahead and retire my man at whatever his level is (20 something) and start again and completely ditch the wpf in throwing, as the difference between 1 and 100 while noticable is rather lackluster compared to what I can do if I sink everything in 1Her. Mildly irritating.

I did find out though that this build is wonderful in seiges, as that Heavy Board Shield allows me to plug gaps rather permanently, and in standard open battles the regular Board Shield can take the place.

I am rather tweaked though of enemy cav. As my Archer I am used to them riding right down on me and being able to shoot the rider or the horse clean in one shot usually, or jump and swipe with the katana at the last second. With this character though, the instant I pull my arm back to hold for a throw, ever cav suddenly has a massive aversion and I create a "bubble" around me. This is making hunting them a bloody nuisance, though I suppose a thrower is more scary then an archer is...

 I was starting to get amused though as I would wander around earlier today with a squad in a permanent "ready-to-throw" position and just turn vaguely in the direction of a cav to see them veer off. I noticed I am a sudden bullet magnet for ranged units the instant I pull out a stick to throw... It feels amusing to be on the other side of the fence dodging a hailstorm of projectiles, a lot of fun!
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 09, 2011, 11:17:17 pm
Right, here are four screenshots.
My apologies for the crappy captures but I was in the heat of battle and had little time.
Also note that this is using the Throwing Javelins instead of the Throwing Spears like I will soon switch to. I shall experiment later once I get more gold (using the cheap upkeep version) with how some of the banded mail looks on him (For that Lorica Segmentata look, yes?).

Light build
(click to show/hide)
Heavy Build
(click to show/hide)

EDIT: Oh and the reason why the last two pictures was me with full javs and health and the time about to run out was because it was a siege map, and somehow despite half of us protecting the flag, the rest of the team was gloriously butchering the invaders (I was not leeching). That was a severe case of screwy team balance with a X5 modifier for almost two dozen matches...
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: IR_Kuoin on September 20, 2012, 12:25:43 am
Go for the heavy build, good luck Tears
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Digglez on September 20, 2012, 02:19:39 am
when I've done Legionnaire builds, it was always tri-spec, since thats in reality what they were.

1h, polearm (spears) & throwing

LEGIONAIRE
·   Strength: 18
·   Agility: 15
·   Hit points: 65
·   Attributes to skills: 2
·   Ironflesh: 6
·   Power Strike: 6
·   Shield: 5
·   Athletics: 5
·   Riding: 3
·   Power Throw: 5
·   Weapon Master: 5
·   One Handed: 75
·   Polearm: 75
Throwing: 122
Title: Re: Requesting Input/Guidance on Roman Legionnaire Build
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on September 20, 2012, 08:23:54 pm
I'd give the nasal helmet a shot. To me the spiked helmet reminds me of likely historically inaccurate prussians. I don't know about the light mail and plate, either. I've used it a bit in the past and it certainly seems much more European circa 15th century. Certainly agree with you on the bad-assery of the board shields. They look sick, and they're an archers best friend. You get two board-shielders and you have a portable siege shield that can pop into combat at any second.

As for throwing weapons, my personal favorite would be war darts, but as far as I can remember the only group of people to extensively use darts in combat was the Irish. It seems that Jarids are very similiar to the pilum that a legionnaire would be likely to use in the time period you are thinking of.


But hey, big props to you for making a build that's not as combat-effective as possible. I think the game would be more fun if more people did that. There would probably be fewer kuyak jackasses, anyway. Much respect, hope you make some min-maxers look silly on the battlefield.

Afterthought: Why no gloves? I am not expert on the period of time that Roman legions inhabited, but I would think that it would be common for them to wear at least leather gloves. Hands are fucking important to protect, man. You gotta use those things to fight with! I can't imagine that most legionnaire' would leave their hands bare.

Also, the fuck? This shit is from back in 2011.