cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Overdriven on January 22, 2012, 10:56:41 pm
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Can we just do this already? I'd love to know why it hasn't been done. So many threads have been made about it, and I'm just making another one because it's a good idea.
Is it actually possible to do?
As much as people on this forum make the scoreboard sound like your boosting your own ego, everyone cares a little bit where they are on it and anyone who denies this is just outright lying.
Assists could work that if you damage a player and someone else kills them, you get 1 point. You don't get more points for damaging that person more than once if another kills them. Possibly make kills count for 2 points to compensate.
Horse kills/damage should not count (hordes of people rushing to damage a horse).
This would actually reflect well on support classes and classes which go a long way to helping the big hitters get the kills. I also think it would help the rage that happens after nerfs a little bit. If your getting points even for doing a bit of damage, then it won't quite be so annoying if something like a damage nerf occurs.
Basically would actually just love to hear something proper from a dev about this. Because it's cropped up as a suggestion for as long as this board has existed.
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I'm gonna keep bumping this till I get a dev reply!
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it would be cool to see stats like
-Dehorsings
-Damage dealt
-Kill Assists
-Accuracy
-Block accuracy
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Conversely, get rid of K:D. Anyway here's a few issues:
1) Over kill exists [ie, not all hits are important->Simply hitting somebody is not important]
2) Taking a blow [blocked or not] in place of an ally, allowing them a free hit, and he kills an enemy, that is pretty big assistance
3) Dehorsing somebody and having a team mate kill them when they're down is pretty big
4) Holding attacks to force a block is useful
5) Forcing a shielder to ping pong is also very useful
If you need a score to tell you how well you're doing, something's wrong.
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Ignored.
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Why would you need this?
If you've not been sleeping it's pretty easy to figure out what you've done for the team without a scoreboard telling you.
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tracking the damage pple did would be too taxing for the servers iirc, causing lag and nakid male dwarf group sex
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Not really needed, you can already see who's doing good or not just by watching the play.
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Because it's nice to see your name up there on the board.
I don't give a crap about 'figuring out what you've done for your team'. Pretending you don't like seeing your name somewhere decent on the board is a bit daft and overly righteous. Everyone does. And this applies for support classes as well.
Like I said...I also think it would help a bit for the rage in forums, because people would still stand a chance of getting a decent score. Because, lets be honest, that's why people rage, because if something is nerfed it reduces their chances of doing that, no matter how much they still help their team.
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ofc it would be nice seeing implimented. actually have some archers up there n shit. but i dont think it can be done for a reasonable coding investment
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ofc it would be nice seeing implimented. actually have some archers up there n shit. but i dont think it can be done for a reasonable coding investment
That was what I was curious about though. Because I don't think I've ever actually seen a dev comment on this suggestion. Just hoping one will!
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I want my bamboo spear assists NAO!!
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bump, Paul i know you've seen this!
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Because it's nice to see your name up there on the board.
I don't give a crap about 'figuring out what you've done for your team'. Pretending you don't like seeing your name somewhere decent on the board is a bit daft and overly righteous. Everyone does. And this applies for support classes as well.
Like I said...I also think it would help a bit for the rage in forums, because people would still stand a chance of getting a decent score. Because, lets be honest, that's why people rage, because if something is nerfed it reduces their chances of doing that, no matter how much they still help their team.
LOL.
I don't give a crap about where I end up on the board. What I care about is how well I play, and how I can improve.
And I get enough satisfaction from knowing that I saved my teammate with that crucial hit or that dehorse. I don't need a scoreboard to tell me/the rest of the world that.
Is this some kind of facebook mentality or what? :lol:
"Hey, hey, HEY! I just took a shit and I was SOOO drunk! Liek plz!"
Come fucking on.
I know most of the good players in EU and that is not by their scoreboard or flashy K:D ratio.
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LOL.
I don't give a crap about where I end up on the board. What I care about is how well I play, and how I can improve.
And I get enough satisfaction from knowing that I saved my teammate with that crucial hit or that dehorse. I don't need a scoreboard to tell me/the rest of the world that.
Is this some kind of facebook mentality or what? :lol:
"Hey, hey, HEY! I just took a shit and I was SOOO drunk! Liek plz!"
Come fucking on.
I know most of the good players in EU and that is not by their scoreboard or flashy K:D ratio.
I hate to say it dezilagel, but I have a feeling the reason you don't give a crap is because all to often you're near the top. I've rarely seen you in even the mid-bottom portions of the scoreboard. But most people do care. If you look down on it then fine.
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I'm not a dev. but I do think changing how the scoreboard works is something really different from what they usually do. If someone really does want the scoreboard to show more/less they should show how to change it.
But more info is usually better. Though I'm actually for removing the scoreboard and all the UI info completely.
Instead you could have valour for both sides and actually announced who got it.
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I hate to say it dezilagel, but I have a feeling the reason you don't give a crap is because all to often you're near the top. I've rarely seen you in even the mid-bottom portions of the scoreboard. But most people do care. If you look down on it then fine.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily cracking down on people who want to be high up on the scoreboard.
What I think is weird though is that people want every single one of their actions to count, for whatever reason (look at me, I'm special!)
If you're so obsessed with letting the world know just how much good you do in this game then make a youtube video or something. I mean jeez.
We have a board that tracks kills, pretty normal for a deathmatch-like gameplay. If you're constantly at the bottom of it then that means that either 1. you suck or 2. that you're doing a bunch of other good stuff
I'm sure that if you're helping your team both you and they know it. If you're playing to farm kills then maybe a change of playstyle is in order? Or you just haven't realized just how well one must play to top the scoreboard.
I don't play to top the scores, I do a lot of silly things like taking on five people at once for the heck of it and I also spend a lot of time on the duel server. This has been me from day one, getting higher up in the scores is just something that came with skill and experience.
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I get your point.
But the idea is mainly for the support roles who don't get as many kills as say cav, or 2h, or even the better archers, but often set up the kills for those players. If your doing a bunch of other good stuff, then I just feel like at least some of it should show on the board.
It's not even that I play to farm kills, it's just nice to have what you do aknowledged on the board. Most other games of this type do count assists and teamplay points for this very reason. As kills don't really reflect all.
I have topped scoreboards in the past, and I do usually have to be on an exceptionally good level with my HA. But I also bump people and set them up for others to kill them, especially on smaller maps, and stun them with arrows and other such things. Most support classes do similar things to help the killers.
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But that's the thing, why would you need "acknowledgement" from EU1 about how well you do in every respect?
Sure it's nice to get a "well played" from someone occasionally, but this whole "look at me" bs is just blegh imho.
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Meh each to their own. But it's nice to track how well you did properly.
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Id like to see this too but I dont think it has a high priority right now. Though I cant count how many times I headshotted an enemy who was 0.5 secs away from overheading one of my teammates from behind and they didnt even notice.
Also I consider a XP reward for teamplay related actions rather fitting like I stated in some other thread, because teamplay is the one thing that this community lacks the most IMO:
I like the idea of rewarding people for doing something useful. [...]
What I would like to see though is xp gain [...] for teamwork related action. When an archer for example hits an enemy melee, giving his teammate the opportunity to kill the stunnned foe it should be rewarded. Of course there would be some lines of code needed that determine when this is exactly the case. Other examples would be killing enemies in flag range, shielding a projectile that would have hit a teammate or piking an enemy horse that would have been collided with a friendly.
Setting up rules so the game can tell when these actually are the case would surely require a little work but yeah.
Reward for teamplay = YES !
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I think looking at assists is as immature as looking on kills. That's why I can only accept a complete removal of the kill counter.
I could also live with a special player rating which is depending on his class, but this needs to be invented first, and then it needs to be so simple to not make the server crash. So I think just removing it would be the best.
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I don't think removing the scoreboard will help anything though. If it doesn't solve anything, there's no reason to do it and I still think saying its immature, or doesn't matter ect is a little bit silly. At some point you probably cared, and even now I bet if you see yourself towards the bottom of the scoreboard it gets to you a little bit and you want to be higher up. In which case you do care. Adding assists ect would greatly improve the scoreboard for a lot of classes. It may not be a high priority, but I'm not suggesting it should be. Would just like to know if it can be done and if so, would we potentially see it sometime in the future.
It's been brought up so many times, so there's obviously some demand for it. But usually the suggestion is never replied to by the people who count.
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If it doesn't solve anything, there's no reason to do it and I still think saying its immature, or doesn't matter ect is a little bit silly.
It solves the problem of support classes feeling too underpowered and many "wrong" people being "respected" by the crowd... :?
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It solves the problem of support classes feeling too underpowered and many "wrong" people being "respected" by the crowd... :?
Not really. Then no one would have no indication at all of who's good or not. For instance, you wouldn't know if there were really good cav raping your team, or someone like chase tearing people apart without paying close attention to the kills list. So you wouldn't be able to focus more attention on them to help your team.
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Just do what they do in Rageball. Remove Kills and Deaths from the scoreboard entirely. It has no bearing on the gameplay whatsoever, in any way.
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Conversely, get rid of K:D. Anyway here's a few issues:
1) Over kill exists [ie, not all hits are important->Simply hitting somebody is not important]
2) Taking a blow [blocked or not] in place of an ally, allowing them a free hit, and he kills an enemy, that is pretty big assistance
3) Dehorsing somebody and having a team mate kill them when they're down is pretty big
4) Holding attacks to force a block is useful
5) Forcing a shielder to ping pong is also very useful
If you need a score to tell you how well you're doing, something's wrong.
I totally agree. But people want others to recognize their good teamwork, and they probably don't feel as useful as the guy who's constantly at the top of the leader board.
Hoplite/spearman and archers (and horse archers) really come to mind here. Especially so after the archer nerf. These are two very important support classes who really don't get a lot of kills compared to other classes, but are just as important, or more (for obvious reasons).
When I'm dismounted I'm not quite like a fish out of water, but I'm not nearly as "powerful" as on a horse. That being said, I can be just as useful (or sometimes more) even though I'm not even getting half the kills I would on horse. I take hits with my shield, I force other people to block by swinging at them, and sometimes I even get a hit in.
Not really. Then no one would have no indication at all of who's good or not. For instance, you wouldn't know if there were really good cav raping your team, or someone like chase tearing people apart without paying close attention to the kills list. So you wouldn't be able to focus more attention on them to help your team.
This is true for me since I'm not in the thick of it every round with our ground troops. I usually don't even know that there's someone on the other team raping us unless I look at the score board. Yes, that is partly my fault, but people like horseman, or I imagine even archers, may not necessarily know who's mopping up our team. Having a score board is nice, but it's also really un-realistic for me to get the heads up, without actually having to witness the destruction. It's nice for me being on a horse though because then I know who to look out for, and who to aim for when I'm couching into a crowd of enemies.
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Just do what they do in Rageball. Remove Kills and Deaths from the scoreboard entirely. It has no bearing on the gameplay whatsoever, in any way.
Given the tendency of our beloved Developers, I think taking things out is a much more favorable approach than coding more stuffs :mrgreen:
I jest, but I agree with the suggested solution of removing k/d count.
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Don't be so modest, that's no jest :P
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I think the K/D is outdated. if we want to have teamplay, then it's the worst to have.
but every other point-giving alternative would be all the same issue: you go for points than for actual teamplay. for example hitting someone once and then darting off to hit someone else to dart off to hit a third, and so on. the best solution is imo getting rid of any points and rewards but the real rewards, that'd be the cheering of people, the real deal you know.
I can draw an analogy to our whole society, where mere assets are used for the replacement of human sympathy - from a philosophical standpoint :lol:
but there is truth in that, think about it. we should care about what our comrades do, how we act ourselves, and not what fucking points we get and how the hierarchy is.
tl:dr: remove any scores.
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What you just described Kajia doesn't happen in any other game that has assists. I've never seen a shooter, for example, where you pull out a pistol, shoot that guy over there, run off, shoot the next one ect ect just to get the assists. Even though a lot of the time it could be quite doable. If that would happen in crpg, we have a very special type of retarded community. When you also make kills count for more points than assists, then at least some of it balances out.
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I wish for a full month the "official" cRPG servers had a nice popup when people join that said this:
There are 6 battalions (aka "groups") in game. To join a battalion press "P". Designate a group leader (sergeant, whatever) who will move your flag by holding F1 and pointing where you want the flag to go.
That simple information would enable a lot of "pubbies" to suddenly start being more organized.
Would be cool if it caught on and in a month or so people instinctively just pressed "P" to join the battalion that they "belong" to. Such as infantry battalion 1, ranged battalion 2, cavalry battalion 3, and 4, 5 and 6 can be specially designated groups (or people who are in their own factions).
Ah my pipe dreams.
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That's actually a very good idea :)
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Still no official reply yet. Bump.
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Would be nice to have, at least for a week as a test, the killboard replaced with a board showing wins/losses per person on a given map. Possibly replacing k/d completely as win/loss ratio.
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Up
^ also another nice suggestion
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It would be nice if they could program CRPG to show damage done as a total per player instead of kills, but that might not be easy to do program wise. If it is easy then they should do it of course.
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It would be nice if they could program CRPG to show damage done as a total per player instead of kills, but that might not be easy to do program wise. If it is easy then they should do it of course.
It would be, but the people with the highest strength and power strike would dominate the board.
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we want paul, and we want him noaw!
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Why would you need this?
If you've not been sleeping it's pretty easy to figure out what you've done for the team without a scoreboard telling you.
I get 3-1 scores like i did yesterday...you SAW it it was awesome right?????
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Uppity up
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I would personally love to see assists as well A FEW PIECES of gold for kills, that is A FEW!!!!!!!!!
But can it be done?
YES IT CAN!
But who can do it?
Warband 2?
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Gonna keep this near the top.
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Another suggestions which could replace the k/d and still shows how active someone was. If it is good, is another question.
A Point System.
You gather points for certain action, you lose points for certain bad actions (i.e. teamkills):
Kill (if no teammate in sight) + 1 Points
Kill (if teammates are in sight) + 3 Points
Hits (if no teammates in sight) + 1 Point
Hits (if teammates are in sight) + 2 Points
Horsebumps on enemy + 1 Points
Horsebumps on friendlys - 2 Points
Teamhit - 1 Point
Teamkill (if enemy in sight) - 1 Points
Teamkill (if no enemy in sight) - 10 Points
Hits should only count once on each enemy. Teamhits should count mulitiple times on friendlys. Horsebumps on enemies can count multiple time, as well as Horsebumps on friendlys. Teamhits and Teamkills as well.
With this system, teamhitters/killers get punished, however teamkills by mistakes do not or only slightly. Assists get rewarded, everyone who deals damage gets points. If someone is fighting on his own, he gets less points for kills (1/3) instead of gaining more, so teamwork is encouraged.
Sure, this system has the same weak points as the current K/D system, simply because you could just look at your points and "farm" them. You wouldnt notice if someone helps his team by playing together by just looking at points. However, people who stick with their team do get more points in the end. Teamhits and Kills get directly punished by losing points. However here is the question, what would those - 10 Points do?
I am not sure about this, but just wanted to share my idea I had before.
I however like what was suggested before in this thread!
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here is a gauge on whether not your doing good...
if u have an x5=yes
if u have x1=no
everything else is irrelevant,if you have an x5 your obviously doing something right if u have x1 there is obviously something wrong
maybe if there was a better valor system i would value the scoreboard other then that its useless and a waste of space
(valor is useless too please buff it)
just keep killing and maiming and let the others think scoreboard is useful the only time it is is when "its not my fault we have x1" moments
but if your doing good you can say that without scoreboard seeing how it would be obvious to those around you
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here is a gauge on whether not your doing good...
if u have an x5=yes
if u have x1=no
everything else is irrelevant,if you have an x5 your obviously doing something right if u have x1 there is obviously something wrong
Uhh, no. Some of my 'best' games are on bad teams where I have to try and do everything myself.
I'll be doing great, individually, but have x1 for an hour.
Other times my team will be so stacked I can do jack shit and have x5 all day.
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I can't believe how many people oppose something as simple as an Assist stat.
It's not for e-peen reasons, as many of you seem to believe. I can't recall any game where a person bragged about their assist count.
It could even help a support player improve, by highlighting when/where they help the most.
Also, for new players just starting out: it's incredibly demoralizing to go kill-less, at least they could be recognized when they help kill.
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if u have x1 there is obviously something wrong
With your team. Not necessarily you. There are very few players who can influence the entire outcome of a round.
I don't get why people are so against a better scoreboard considering most games with successful teamwork/whatever have them. There are very few games which don't have assists on the board. Tbh it's a little outdated not to.
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Not really needed, you can already see who's doing good or not just by watching the play.
Neither are new animations, models, weapons, etc. but people still want to see them.
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Idea, include silent assist count (removes need to mess with the scoreboard) and instead every 3-5 assists counts as a kill.
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i have had those rounds as well i could kill 6 enemy's and my team would still lose and what was wrong was not my performance but my teams
and for you who say its not about comparing whos dick is bigger your mistaken the only time you ever hear about the score board is either them bitching about how there team is too fail to be playing or how there so much better then everyone on there team or how some player is carrying our team just because of some stupid number that says how many time he killed and how many time he died
(atleast in my experience)
kills mean nothing assists mean nothing deaths mean nothing seeing how one of those kills/assists/deaths was a lvl 1 peasant to a lvl 35 fully loomed veteran
any small editions such as merely showing how many times you assisted wont help that
do you think that guy 0/5 k/d is just doing nothing?he assisting
the only way is COMPLETE REVAMP with a highly complicated system showing the importance of each player lvl,skill,items
idk let me think of examples....
- level of players character
- lvls 1-35 are worth their rank in points based strictly off there rank
- maybe make it so the rank of the player THEMSELVES only counts and goes into effect at lvl 30(so your rank is not tainted on your way to 30)
- based off the kill you get points based off the current rank of the player in the scoreboard
- his rank in the round
- level of his gear
- general level of his team
- general competition of the round(as in the harder the round the more score)
- importance of character in game(assists,horse takedowns, multi kills, most damage, most shield defense,saves,most blocks,equipment placement etc)
- the speed of the victory
- his scoreboard rank(seeing how you should get more points for killing a veteran then a new guy
- his gen
^^^examples
in order for it to be relevant there has to be some serous time put into it
until then its just comparing who dick is bigger...
SO IN SHORT its not because i do not like the idea of a GOOD scoreboard its just i doubt the scoreboard put in will be good enough to be keeping score of a game as complicated as crpg
if you find anything wrong with what i said please let me know i tried to keep it correct if you see things pop up twice or something tell me i typed this during deaths
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I think it would help people to be more cooperative and it would be nice to see and show others that you are a good teammate.
I also think that maybe there should be a certain amount of dmg at not less so that peasants dont get assist for 1 point of dmg they deal or whatever...
I also think they should add a killcam but thats another story hehe...
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if i understand correctly your either referring to
some sort point system for how much damage you do(sure of course it would be nice to see how much damage i did in a gen)
or misinterpreting the 2ND example i used,if this is the case i ment it as in if you kill a lvl 1 peasant u got one point and if you killed a lvl 35 it would be worth considerable points
oh also a good idea would be a lvl gap bonus like if a lvl one some how killed a lvl 35 with a rock shot to the head would get some sort of score multiplier lol
(its always nice to kill someone when you a peasant)
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I just think that the battle mode (team deathmatch) should be replaced with something else being the standard gamemode of cRPG next to siege.
Battle mode is won by killing the enemy team, so the ultimative goal is killing, which is bad for gameplay, I think. A reason why rageball is so popular is that killing doesn't matter so much, I guess.
I would prefer a system where you need to capture and hold certain places on the map, forcing everyone to play in a team instead of simply relying on killing the enemy before he kills you.
How about a map with three flag points, that work exactly like the master of the field flags. Every flag point serves as spawn point as well, and offers a certain amount of respawns. (Note that the initial spawns at the beginning og the round are NOT the flag points!). Depending on which team is currently the owner, killed players can respawn after a few seconds again, they can choose at which flag point before spawning.
If the flag point changes the owner, your team respawns get automatically reduced by the amounts of respawns left of that flag point. You can conquer it back, but you will get it back only with less spawn points than before, because the enemy will have used some.
This leads to the interesting situation, that you actually want to take the flag point without killing too many enemies, because once conquered the flag point becomes useless, besides the general purpose of winning a map if you own all flag points at a time or no enemies are left any more. (Killing lonely dismounted cavalrymen or poor peasants would be contraproductive, if the enemy has flag points with a lot of respawns left)
Such a gamemode would bring the benefit of splitting up those big infantry mobs, and teamplay would become crucial.
What do you think? I the flag points are placed along the middle line between the two teams you would still have an open battle, but there would be a left flank, a center and a right flank, which requires more teamplay than the usual battles with a big center and a few skirmishes at the flanks.
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I play this game when I want to poleaxe people to the face.
If I want to be tactical about it I play ArmA 2, or to some extent strategus but warband pubs are pubs and should remain as such imo.
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You are still free to charge the enemy headlong... :?
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It'd be cool to know how many points you attribute to the autobalance.
I use the scoreboard to identify threats on the other team. That way I know whether or not any of the tough cav, pikemen, etc. are alive or dead.
Assists are difficult to identify. As long as you're dealing damage, kills will come either way. How much information can the game gather and display before it adversely affects the servers?
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Good idea, as long as it doesn't affect gold or xp income. I mean why is your work only messured by kills & deaths. Hits would be nice and easy to do I guess.
Kills Deaths Hits
and maybe an overall score.
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necrosis to prevent new thread.
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zombie thread comes in handy:
REMOVE ANY BRAI.... SCORES!
I think the K/D is outdated. if we want to have teamplay, then it's the worst to have.
but every other point-giving alternative would be all the same issue: you go for points than for actual teamplay. for example hitting someone once and then darting off to hit someone else to dart off to hit a third, and so on. the best solution is imo getting rid of any points and rewards but the real rewards, that'd be the cheering of people, the real deal you know.
I can draw an analogy to our whole society, where mere assets are used for the replacement of human sympathy - from a philosophical standpoint :lol:
but there is truth in that, think about it. we should care about what our comrades do, how we act ourselves, and not what fucking points we get and how the hierarchy is.
tl:dr: remove any scores.
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Still a valid thread :!:
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I don't understand why people want this "assist/horsekilling/damage dealt" information.
Are you unhappy because you're not recognized by the community, even though you're doing your "job" well ? Oh... poor lad, come here, and have a cookie. And here this piece of advice :
Just play the game, have fun and help your team win. Who cares about recognition ? Or stay with friends, and they'll see how awesome you are, and they're the only one who cares anyway.
As an archer myself, i'm satisified with a "simple" k/d. I'd prefer it if devs continue working on the new mods, fixing known issues, trying to balance it, that adding so much new columns to the "tab screen", for nearly nothing.
You want to add horsekills ? I don't see how a range killing an horse near an unaware friendly ranged, making him die to the dehorsed horseman deserves this horsekill. If he had shot the rider (like all good range), then he'd have his kill, and he could still shoot the stationnary horse afterwards, if no ally wants it. I personnally prefer shooting an horse till it's near death, and WAIT for it to come in melee range before finishing it off, else you have a wandering dehorsed ennemy, instead of a dead body at your feet. Adding horsekills will make people greedy, and instead of killing a cav, you actuallly "transform" him into a shielder / polearm.
You want to add damage dealt ? That would be a way to know exactly the damage done, etc... wich is something devs don't want. An approximate total damage dealt after each round ? Who cares about damage... a beautiful arrow stun or bump, or knockdown with a 0 slot 0 PS hammer in front of a 9 PS Mighty Long Axe user is worth more than most high damage. Also, leaving 3 heavily wounded, instead of killing 2, is... BAD. Way easier to survive a gank of 1 (also called duel) than of 3, even if wounded. There again, it's the kill supremacy.
You want to add assists ? So a short bow doing 1 damage on EVERY ennemy gets 50 assists a round ? How useless information is that ? You can't really exploit/use that information for anything relevant. Except if it's a 12 PS Great Maul build, and you'll understand his Assists are actually his "should-be-kills" stolen by someone else.
I'm really not a big fan of giving devs more work, for no real gameplay benefit. Hell, adding thoses things may even ruin the general gameplay.
I already see cavs topping EVEN MORE the scoreboard :
-damage done : couching supremacy
-assists : bumping supremacy
-horsekills : I still see more horse killed by other cavs than by pike, even though range is probably the first cause of mortality for thoses equus africanus.
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+1