cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on January 20, 2012, 02:38:50 pm
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I love throwing, its what I do, so yes I am lobbying for my own class... but I think I have some decent reasons why throwing did not deserve the nerf that all ranged got :
- Throwing is inaccurate, I have 145 wpf in it with mw javelins and when standing still the reticle is at least twice as wide as a normal xbow with 80wpf. There is no way that i can successfully pull off headshots as often as people demand that i should.
- It takes almost all my 6 javelins at 5pt to kill a player wearing medium armour with body shots. That is insane, balance wise and realism wise :P I am using 2 slots of loomed weapons for the ability to kill 2 peasants or 1 medium armoured opponent and thats assuming i hit with body shots every time.
- Horses are one of the main prey of throwing weapons, due to their large hit boxes but now it takes 5 or so mw javelins in the body of an arabian warhorse to down it, rounceys take a similar amount and coursers and destriers feel like heavy horses :P though headshots are easier on horses they still are not frequent enough to rely on them.
To sum up, throwing isnt designed for headshots, its designed to be low ammo heavy hitting body shots, for throwing to be truly viable the ranged nerf needs to be reverted back. I have opinions similar regarding other ranged but I feel throwing is the unsung victim of this nerf.
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Buff throwing, now people need like 8 throwing axes to kill a tin can
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Throwing appears to have been hit very hard as a hybrid infantry class, but still wrecks as a dedicated, 9+ pt class. At least it does for me.
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Throwing appears to have been hit very hard as a hybrid infantry class, but still wrecks as a dedicated, 9+ pt class. At least it does for me.
I dont know about other people but I feel like if one weapon type lends itself to hybrids, its throwing. It has always been my opinion that good shielder with some ranged capabilites makes an extremely versatile player, but with low damage output of throwing, you might as well be spitting at your opponent :P
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Yes throwers were hit the hardest thanks to their low amount of ammunition.
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And now for something completely different: Make the difficulty of throwing based on Str instead of powerthrow (as basically anyone who is strong enough can throw something, despite any wpf accuracy issues). That way thrown weapons will become more of a utility item for any classes. Throwing may still be "worse" on average, but it will be elevated to something closer to the level of melee weapons. The same should be done to shields (difficulty = strength). Then, buff powerthrow, or if not possible, buff throwing axes and javelins.
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And now for something completely different: Make the difficulty of throwing based on Str instead of powerthrow (as basically anyone who is strong enough can throw something, despite any wpf accuracy issues).
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Are you trying to buff a ranged class.
Oh god, that's so cute. You're in a cRPG forum, you do realize that? I wish you luck but i'm terribly amused at the concept that any ranged class is going to get much more than whine-nerfs. Best part? Seconds after you get buffed and people start actually playing the class again you'll be again nerfed back into oblivion.
I think it's like a running joke among the devs.
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Throwing does need a fix. Along with HA. O...and crossbowmen.
I noticed throwing axes against my Druzhina Lamellar only took down about 10% of my health yesterday. Before that I would have been scared running to have a load of throwing axes coming at me. The accuracy is also god awful and needs a fix.
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Are you trying to buff a ranged class.
Oh god, that's so cute. You're in a cRPG forum, you do realize that? I wish you luck but i'm terribly amused at the concept that any ranged class is going to get much more than whine-nerfs. Best part? Seconds after you get buffed and people start actually playing the class again you'll be again nerfed back into oblivion.
I think it's like a running joke among the devs.
I am so cute right? : :oops:
I've put the suggestion forward thats all i can do :P
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Your avatar is better.
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Just did a test with Chagan :
me - 12 mw javelins, 5pt, 145 wpf, 3 ha, stationary
Chagan - lordly sarranid guard armour, lordly mail mittins, sarranid veiled helmet, not sure about boots, stationary
Took my 9 javelins to kill him all hitting the body.
I usually only carry 6.
Does this not seem excessive? surely 3-4 to kill a similarly armoured player would be more reasonable, these are javelins...
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Do you really think that devs give a damn about it. It took them 2 years to remove ladders.
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I agree, throwing was well balanced before the nerf. Dangerous, but not OP. And it was a loong way till they finally got it there.
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~Hi. I'm throwing. Sorry I killed some people prepatch. Maybe in time you could let me out again?
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I dunno guys, why are you all using javelins? To me javelins are supposed to just be basic dinky pointy sticks you throw for psychological and harassing effect. You are also only putting in 3PT to use them, they should hardly be killing machines.
If you actually want to be messing up people with throwing I think it's only fair to expect people to be using 5PT jarids. Anything under 5PT should really be considered a harassment weapon, not a killing weapon. Maybe buff Heavy axes and move them up to 5PT to give an alternative to Jarids. I mean for archers if they want serious stopping power ythey need to bust out a longbow, why should weaksauce sub-5PT throwing weapons be different?
I can't talk about the issues of dedicated throwing but play as a hybrid 1h/shield/thrower infantry, 5 PT and I think about 90 WP. I use jarids and get a fair amount of kills or at least nicely soften up heavy infantry. I'm happy with my investment/sacrificies (I wear leather armour, the points I spent) into them and don't think they are too weak. Love the utility of being able to whip them out and pop someone coming up a ladder/charging me, gunning down some light guy trying to flee, or sniping a perched archer on a rooftop above me.
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Those people who vote for no must be some kind of assholes who want 1000 throwing axe to kill a tincan
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Devs must have been reeeeally drunk or high when they put in that range nerf. I mean, I made some stupid mistakes (trades, respecs) after having a couple drinks, so I totally understand how this happens.
Still, they have the power to reverse it and try again! :)
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Pt 8 Lance thrower (Gaulois), archers wearing leather take at LEAST 2 lances to kill. I've already hit some with 2 who have survived. Patently ridiculous. Xbows also need a buff. Archers? They can go fuck themselves, they're fine. Anything with 20+ ammo and the ability to be accurate over long distances and have a relatively good rate of fire, headshots are doable. With throwing? Not so much. Xbows? Rate of fire is terrible.
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Ranged nerf was clearly overdone.
Removing ladders was great, but damage nerf is too much. (I am infantry)
After nerf there were few days when crpg battles was enjoyable, but now its cav fest, i cant even finish one map without GTX. Its not fun at all turn your view around every second and when finally engage in fight only to be backstabbed by cav. :rolleyes:
Throwing need prenerf damage back.
Archery and xbow are ok, maybe few more percent on body damage(75) will be nice, but what we need for sake of balance is full damage when archer/xbowman hit horse body.
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I have 5 Power Throw this gen, and alternate between Heavy Throwing Axes and Jarids. Throwing is a total joke now:
-It took three Jarids to kill an archer in light armor
-I put two Heavy Axes in the skull and one in the chest of a 50ish armor guy, didn't kill him. Then he one-shot me with his Bec
-Put five of my Jarids in the chest of a guy wearing a Coat of Plates as he walked up a ladder. He also one-shot me with his Bec, then took several more melee hits from my teammates after that to go down
If two slots/8 weight/14k worth of throwing weapon isn't enough to kill a guy in high-medium armor, then I don't see the point. I'll just drop throwing next gen for more stats. An extra level of Power Strike will get me a lot more kills than throwing ever will.
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Well another prob is all these guys with 8-10 Ironflesh and then a suit of +3 armour (even med-heavy). Forget throwing there's plenty of people I basically can't kill with my +3 1h broad axe either (even with the alt. pierce mode...). Gotta hit them 4-7 times while they can 1-2 hit me with their polearm even when hitting me close range with the hilt of a 6 foot stick.
Being a STR/IF crutcher with a suit of +3 armour still has very little downside in this mod and is a huge balance issue to adress.
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just hit a cavalry player wearing monk outfit twice in the chest, once he was running onto the jav... dont care how much if he has and I doubt he has much, he has to have some agility to be cav, that guy should be dead :/
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I remember someone surviving 2 throwing lances to the body with 7 PT. Yeah.