cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Vexus on January 17, 2012, 09:24:04 pm

Title: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 17, 2012, 09:24:04 pm
This weapon was one of my favourite weapons but then crushthrough was removed from it (Don't care), the thrust animation was switched to pole one (Made thrusting pretty much useless) but still retained the unbalanced tag  :?

If you look at the model you can clearly see it's not unbalanced but for some reason 80% of the blunt weapons in the 2h section has to be unbalanced but goedendag for example is not unbalanced which is a lot longer, has 2h thrust animation and faster making it a viable weapon with high PS.

Same could be said for the studded warclub why would a weapon that looks like a baseball bat be unbalanced?

So would you people use it if it wasn't unbalanced? lowering the weight a little to balance it.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Tot. on January 17, 2012, 09:28:19 pm
Goedansdfgsd doesn't kd so often. In fact, hardly ever.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 17, 2012, 09:39:12 pm
Few people use it when they can use better stuff but was comparing it with the other medium tier blunt 2h weapons.

You are right few use it but it's still a viable weapon in the right hands.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 19, 2012, 12:43:22 pm
Bump c'mon guys I know some of you hate blunt/knockdown weapons but at least give a reason for the no.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Camaris on January 19, 2012, 03:31:33 pm
Actually it would be more important to remove unbalanced from any 2h-axe in the game (not bardiches).
Those are the real fucked weapons of 2h-players.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: ArchonAlarion on January 19, 2012, 03:36:39 pm
Actually it would be more important to remove unbalanced from any 2h-axe in the game (not bardiches).
Those are the real fucked weapons of 2h-players.

and yet they are conceivably "unbalanced," whereas the long iron mace is less so.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 19, 2012, 04:12:38 pm
2h axes have a big piece of metal on the top and a tiny wood as handle whereas the long iron mace is thin on the bottom and has a small ball shape at the very top.

Tough some of them could be not unbalanced like the two handed axe/war axe.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: illogical on January 19, 2012, 04:30:18 pm
yea, and remove Persian War Axe "Unbalanced" and reduce weight.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: SixThumbs on January 19, 2012, 05:26:54 pm
I kind of like some of these things unbalanced because the feints are wonky as a result.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 21, 2012, 01:56:11 am
Of course, unbalance adds a little spice into the game but the long iron mace had it because before it had crush through which was removed for several months now and I never see anyone using this weapon :/  (Tough I hate the pole animation on thrust wish it remained with the 2h one)
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: ArchonAlarion on January 21, 2012, 04:41:27 am
I kind of like some of these things unbalanced because the feints are wonky as a result.

This is definitely true ffor one who takes advantage of it, but not a great way to design the mod in general.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Camaris on January 21, 2012, 05:32:06 pm
If its for realism i dont think that its balanced at all.
If its for for balance some 2hs could lose unbalanced.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 23, 2012, 12:14:53 pm
Yea some could lose unbalanced and would love a response from the high council of hogwarts saying if it's possible that some of these weapons get removed unbalanced tag in the next patch or someday.

Studded warclub:
Length = 92
weight = 2.8
Unbalanced

Vs

Highland claymore, nodachi, sword of war

These 3 are longer, heavier yet not unbalanced?
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 26, 2012, 02:04:37 pm
Up.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: isatis on January 26, 2012, 02:13:18 pm
Goedansdfgsd doesn't kd so often. In fact, hardly ever.

 :rolleyes:

never played against me when I was 42/3 ...
(my goedendag is loomed i must admit :D heavy goedendag is heavy!)

personnaly I think it could stay umbalance but get a buff so it can be a viable option, also I love thrust on this it's way more umprevisible!
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 27, 2012, 12:08:19 pm
Any dev could respond?

I know not many people voted but still some people care else there wouldn't be 38 votes.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on January 30, 2012, 11:46:11 am
Up.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Jarlek on February 01, 2012, 12:34:32 am
How is this weapon NOT balanced? It's a big iron ball on the end of an iron rod!

I could understand if it was a balance issue, but would rather ask for a damage/speed buff if that was the case. But this weapon is completely viable. It's fast enough and does enough damage. Maybe make it a bit heavier to increase the knockdown chance, but that's it.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on February 01, 2012, 09:49:51 am
Not sure if serious but..

The iron ball is as big as your character's hand and the rest of the weapon is as thin as the hilt of most swords I hardly think it justifies unbalance tag now that it doesn't have crushthrough.

It may be viable but unbalanced tag makes feinting a mess and my thread is about certain weapons that certainly don't look like unbalanced weapons but have the tag.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Jarlek on February 01, 2012, 05:22:25 pm
Not sure if serious but..

The iron ball is as big as your character's hand and the rest of the weapon is as thin as the hilt of most swords I hardly think it justifies unbalance tag now that it doesn't have crushthrough.

It may be viable but unbalanced tag makes feinting a mess and my thread is about certain weapons that certainly don't look like unbalanced weapons but have the tag.
I'm not trolling, just to make that clear.

You are right that the iron ball isn't that big, but the weight distribution of the weapon would still make it unbalanced to use. If the center of balance* isn't where you are holding the weapon, then a weapon ought to be unbalanced. With this weapon, my guess is the center of balance would be somewhere in the middle, maybe even closer to the ball since the handle seems to be equal length all along the weapon and the ball at the end shifting the point a bit closer to the head. Compare this with a sword that has the center of balance at around the hilt. Some of the 1h maces and hammers also ought to get the unbalanced tag, I think.

* By "center of balance" I mean the single point where you can balance the weapon without it falling to either side. Like a seesaw. Dunno the correct term in English, but hope you understand what I mean.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on May 10, 2012, 01:39:12 pm
Up for justice!

Why was this weapon's speed nerfed? Now there's no reason on using the long iron mace over the bar mace....

Bring some long iron mace justice!!
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Tzar on May 10, 2012, 01:57:56 pm
I think im the only one who use an have a +3 long iron mace in cRPG  :rolleyes:

Its still my favorite weapon since native but yeah it could use some love no one can argue about that  :wink:

Its retarded they have to make the 2h and pole maces unbalanced in the firstplace everyone just use Greatswords or gla´s or poleaxes no1 borthers with these weapons  :rolleyes: cRPG could use some more variation of weapon usage when it comes to 2h´s and poles espeacially 2h´s
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Tzar on May 11, 2012, 11:59:15 am
INJUSTICE!!!!
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on May 12, 2012, 06:49:27 pm
Iron dildo haters!
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Ronin on May 12, 2012, 07:37:37 pm
You have my support in this. Long iron mace's thrusting attack adventage is just pointless over bar mace. This weapon surely needs some love, though I do not have any idea what kind of a buff (or characteristic) would fit best.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on May 13, 2012, 11:38:46 am
The buff iron mace should get is the old stats it had in speed.

Previously if you wanted a high damaging blunt weapon that was still fast you had bar mace but if you wanted a little less damaging but faster blunt weapon you had the long iron mace.

Now they both have the same speeds...

(The long iron mace thrust is bad because the weapon is short, pole animation doesn't add anything or much in length when fully stretched so your thrust range is very short having you almost face hugging the enemy to manage to hit him with it.)
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on May 16, 2012, 12:26:00 pm
Up
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Leshma on May 16, 2012, 12:44:26 pm
Whenever I manage to kill Tzar, I pick up his Mighty Long Iron Mace and use it until I die. It's great weapon imho. Kinda slow, but seems faster than Morningstar, less damage tho. But it has knockdown which is a great thing. Personally, I wouldn't buff it. But if you think it should be buffed, first make it more expensive.

Quote
The long iron mace thrust is bad because the weapon is short, pole animation doesn't add anything or much in length

It's super fast and you don't need to spin it when you're facehugging someone. Most people won't see it or expect it, and it easily can knock them down.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on May 16, 2012, 06:13:15 pm
Compare it with the bar mace.

Same speed, bar mace 1 more length, bar mace more damage for a flipping 1k more gold.

Long ago long iron mace advantage over bar mace was the speed now they share same speed but bar mace has more damage and that is the problem.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Leshma on May 16, 2012, 09:41:08 pm
Bar Mace has 2 more blunt damage on swings but has no thrust attack (which can be useful, I've already explained how). A little bit more length is nothing. You're hardly gonna feel that one point in battle.

Most importantly, Bar Mace looks like shit imho. Long Iron Mace is one of the better looking weapons in this game (also imho). It's a shame it can't be used on horseback anymore.

If you want a proper buff, this is what I propose. Make it slower, like 90 speed, lower its damage by one point (32) but make it usable on horse again. Also set a new price for it, let's say 9.5k gold. This way it would become epic 2H cav weapon, which seems logical (to me it looks more like a cav weapon).
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Tzar on May 16, 2012, 09:44:51 pm
If you want a proper buff, this is what I propose. Make it slower, like 90 speed, lower its damage by one point (32) but make it usable on horse again. Also set a new price for it, let's say 9.5k gold. This way it would become epic 2H cav weapon, which seems logical (to me it looks more like a cav weapon).

Go kill yourself plz.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Gurnisson on May 16, 2012, 09:52:58 pm
Go kill yourself plz.

(click to show/hide)

 :lol:
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Leshma on May 16, 2012, 09:58:39 pm
Well, I suggested some nerfs because knockdown on horse seems a bit OP to me.

You know what could work too but I'm afraid it would become too popular very quickly (cause it's OP).

Long Iron Mace
weapon length: 95
weight: 4.5
difficulty: 14
speed rating: 75
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 20 blunt
swing damage: 30 blunt
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Knockdown
Crushthrough

Price: ~15000 gold

Also 2H axes on horse make no sense if you ask me. I would balance those a lot differently. Maces and spiky maces were used on horseback, not huge axes. All I know that persians used axes on horse back, never heard any european nation using them.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: zagibu on May 16, 2012, 10:21:19 pm
Knockdown on horse OP? Is it not rather a bit...redundant?
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Tzar on May 16, 2012, 10:23:19 pm
Jesus all we need as 2h/polearm user with mace weapons is removal of the unbalanced tag and a price increase that would change the way everyone and their mothers insist on using the same old boring S key weapons and bring in the assault weapons as a good top tier weapon choice.

Its plain and boring to see everyone use greatswords and poleaxes and glaives ect ect..

I really think if they increased the price and removed the unbalanced tag that people would start to use these weapons.

And for god sake don't give em crushrough or make em cav weapons to try an make people use em lol...

Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Leshma on May 16, 2012, 10:34:45 pm
I think that 2H axes should lose 'unbalanced' tag and gain 'can't use on horseback' tag.

2H maces want to see as cav weapons.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Tzar on May 16, 2012, 10:45:28 pm
2H maces want to see as cav weapons.

2h cav weapons the longsword and the morningstar works just fine so does the shortened military Scythe.. why on earth would you want a mace as 2h cav weapon? you can all ready bump people what on earth does knockdown help you as cav?..

An the stats you proposed would make no1 use the long iron mace anyways..
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Jarlek on May 16, 2012, 11:18:49 pm
2h cav weapons the longsword and the morningstar works just fine so does the shortened military Scythe.. why on earth would you want a mace as 2h cav weapon? you can all ready bump people what on earth does knockdown help you as cav?..

An the stats you proposed would make no1 use the long iron mace anyways..
Say what? A 95 reach, 30 blunt Crusthrough weapon that can be used on horse? I'd use that bitch all day every day!
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Iron Mace
Post by: Vexus on May 16, 2012, 11:27:01 pm
The maul which was usable on horseback with a wooping 64 length was changed to not possible on horseback and you seriously think they would let a weapon with 95 length have crushthrough on horseback?

Keep dreaming.